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kissmykiester
08-06-2012, 18:24
I'm new to Warhammer Fantasy and I was wondering the best way to deploy and screen cannon units, maximizing shots and accuracy. Any advise on that front, anybody?

Asensur
08-06-2012, 18:35
Over a hill, pointing at the biggest model of my enemy.

Ultimate Life Form
08-06-2012, 18:43
Over a hill, pointing at the biggest model of my enemy.

Yep, pretty much that. With Cannons finesse or subtlety isn't needed; they either blow up the enemy monsters or themselves. Either way, it's a blast.

Of course the enemy knows that as well, so they'll be sure to go for the Cannons first. Therefore, they need to be protected. Now it would help to know which Cannon it is exactly we're talking about, for each army has slightly different tools at its disposal to deal with this issue. It does however help a great lot to watch out for enemy Fast Cavalry or Flyers; those will make short work of any War Machine in record time if left unchecked.

Graxy
08-06-2012, 19:05
As far as protecting them goes, it's pretty simple. The only thing that really threatens your cannons from a range is other cannons, a maxed out banishment or skinks. Most scouts have onlly a few S3 shots, so pretty much will bounce but skinks have poisoned shots so will destroy your cannon with ease. The way you stop that is (I'm assumoing it's an empire army here) deploying something small (crossbowmen is optimal) 12 inches away sideways, really just to maximise the amount of turns they have to move to get in range, and hopefully deal with them in those turns. Against cannons, there is no point in screening it with anything, that'll just cause more of your men to be casualties. Just try to shoot their one first (basically, all down to luck in this case). Same applies for banishment, just it won't cause any casualties to any more of your men. Combatwise, combat scouts are gealt with the same way skinks are, flying beasts, shoot them with the cannon or any small arms fire you have, flying units is best dealt with via a spell or small arms fire (spell preferable)

AM1640
08-06-2012, 20:10
Hi Kissmykeister, you can try placing your cannon(s) on a flank to try and get flank shots which are especially good against cavalry. By placing them on the flanks the cannons might also be away from the main battle and have more time to shoot. If on the flanks then you can screen them with a small unit and still shoot into to the middle of the table that might have large juicy targets. I would also recommend not placing multiple cannons together. By being separated it will take the enemy either more time to get them all or more models/units to get them all. You can also use the cannon as a bait during deployment by setting it up first way off to one side and then deploying the rest of your army on the opposite end of your deployment zone. The cannon will likely be destroyed by what ever the opponent puts over there but the enemy unit won't be doing anything else during the game (hopefully).

grumbaki
08-06-2012, 20:18
And if you play dwarfs, you can place your warmachines between your combat blocks. This keeps them protected from enemy warmachine hunters, as to get to the juicy warmachines they'll hit the infantry blocks.

() [W] () [H] () [W] ()

So in this example, we've got organ guns on the flanks (they blow apart war machine hunters like nothing else), and cannons/grudge throwers between the combat blocks. In this example, if the hammerers have the rune of Grimnir, it gives the warmachines next to them a 5+ ward save against enemy missile fire, which greatly increases the survival rate when facing enemy cannons.

I've used this before and it works for me. But it only works if your plan is to castle and blast the enemy apart. When you want to move, or pursue an enemy, you can end up blocking the line of sight for your artillery. Still, I have found that you can protect your warmachines pretty well like this.

More often though, I prefer to place them on the flanks, preferably on a hill. I also put with them an organ gun, a dragon slayer, or an exploding bolt thrower. This is just to keep them alive incase shades or the like come after them.

NTJ2010
09-06-2012, 05:36
I usually do 1 of three things.
On a flank so it is rich with targets and flanks (which are slightly longer usually and possibly more look out sirs; plus it makes enemy units go out of their way to kill the thing), between units (less options for targets but very protected) or on hills as appropriate (obviously more target options and usually has some degree of protection).

Von Wibble
09-06-2012, 22:17
On a flank. Easier to get shots at enemy flanks (cavalry and monstrous infantry hate that) and if the enemy does assign a unit to kill the cannon then its pulled out of place for a couple of turns (that plus the 2-3 shots you get means you easily get your points back in effectiveness no any game where you don't misfire on the first shot).

Also easier to gurad as you potentially only need to guard one side of the cannon not 2 - in empire a single cheap unit initially bought as a detachment can fulfill this role.

The only disadvantage is that it can be quite easy to get in the way of your own shots from a flank - so think carefully when you deploy your cannon and troops about where they are likely to be stood in the shooting phases of turns 1 and 2.

dms505
11-06-2012, 12:56
Being a p-layer with no armies using cannons. I love it when enemies put cannons out to the sides. They are much less protected out there. While it does usually take 2 advantages away from me also. 1. I have to send troops way out of the way to deal with them, possibly taking those units out of the battle after destroying the machine (hopefully), and 2. I have 2 directions to try and LoS those cannons (this only works if there are 2 but that seems to be common). I haven't fought Hellblasters or organ guns much but those would surely keep me from rushing the cannons rashly.

kissmykiester
12-06-2012, 03:59
Wow...thanks very much for the replies guys. And I should have stated it better, I'm running an empire army. So in terms of deployment. A great cannon on one flank, a steam tank on the other and a helblaster volley gun somewhere in the middle?

SaltGut
12-06-2012, 04:29
If your playing empire and using a helblaster a cannon and a steam tank then i would keep all three of those together. Add an engineer to maximize the effectiveness of the helblaster and have him man the cannon when you really need it to hit home, or if your helblaster just dosnt have a shot.The Steam tank makes a great second cannon and is perfect for defending an artillery bunker thanks to its 360 charge radius.

Jezbot
12-06-2012, 04:59
A cannon on the flank can work, but you have to smart about it. It can work well against an army with no small, mobile units to go and wipe it out before moving across for a flank charge. It can also work well as part of a castling strategy, where the cannon is secured by the board edge on one side, and by an infantry unit on the other side.

But most of the time just sticking the cannon on top of a hill behind your main block of troops is the simplest way to go about things.

russellmoo
13-06-2012, 01:22
A lot depends on the list- a cannon in a corner with some pistolliers nearby will be troublesome to remove, however, if you are going pure gun line and want your cannons to live you have to place them next to a combat block, or castle up in a corner- there are a lot of variables- you should post the rest of your list, and give us an idea of your local gaming scene- Are you seeing a lot of hordes, monsters, fast cav, or skirmishers, etc.

kissmykiester
13-06-2012, 04:03
A lot depends on the list- a cannon in a corner with some pistolliers nearby will be troublesome to remove, however, if you are going pure gun line and want your cannons to live you have to place them next to a combat block, or castle up in a corner- there are a lot of variables- you should post the rest of your list, and give us an idea of your local gaming scene- Are you seeing a lot of hordes, monsters, fast cav, or skirmishers, etc.

Here's the 2400pt amry I'm thinking of fielding

Lords : Battle Wizard Lord
Heroes: Warrior Priest, Master Engineer, Captain (BSB)
Core: 40x Spearmen (FC), 20 crossbowmen (Det), 20 Halberdiers (Det) - (WP will bunker here)
Special : 1x Great Cannon, 3x Demigryph Knights, 19x GreatSwords (Lord will bunker here), 5x Inner circle Knights (Bsb will bunker here), 5 x Reiksguard Knights
Rare: Helblaster Volley gun & Steamtank.

In terms of deployment, what if a hill isn't available..also is it a good idea to stick the Engineer between the Helblaster and great Cannon on one flank and the steamtank on the other.

russellmoo
13-06-2012, 18:17
Given your list I would put the great cannon next to the crossbows about 1-2" back probably out towards a flank- if any fast cav head towards your cannon just shoot them dead with the crossbows- Your main priority is going to be protecting the helblaster, so sandwich that between your spearmen and greatswords-

Without a hill- you have to place your cannons near the front line, back enough so that they are harder to charge but not so far as to reduce their choice of targets

Jezbot
14-06-2012, 05:16
In terms of deployment, what if a hill isn't available..also is it a good idea to stick the Engineer between the Helblaster and great Cannon on one flank and the steamtank on the other.

There's no need to put the helblaster next to the cannon for the sake of the Engineer. With the rules now you basically end up having the engineer working with the helblaster every turn, as you have to declare the engineer will be involved before you roll any dice). The helblaster usually needs to be placed forward to get as many shots out as possible, while the cannon can be placed as far back as possible for protection.

Oh, and your inner circle knights are core, not rare. Its just a nitpick but they need to be put up there to get your list up to the minimum core.

I also wonder if the Greatswords might not be a little small, against the wrong opponents they can go squish really quickly, and if you're bunkering your wizard lord in there it'll be a very tasty target.

GrandmasterWang
14-06-2012, 08:05
My cannon deployment depends 100% on the opponents deployment.

As a dwarf player I sometimes put a bolt thrower in front to hold things up for a turn.

With your list, depending on opponent id put them all together with greatswods infront protecting (thinking hill). Otherwise potentially the engineer with blaster and the cannon far away out on a side somewhere so theyll have to split to take both your machines. Steamtank would go separate as you"ll want that trundling forward/ a part of your battleline.

Goodluck

kissmykiester
15-06-2012, 03:50
There's no need to put the helblaster next to the cannon for the sake of the Engineer. With the rules now you basically end up having the engineer working with the helblaster every turn, as you have to declare the engineer will be involved before you roll any dice). The helblaster usually needs to be placed forward to get as many shots out as possible, while the cannon can be placed as far back as possible for protection.

Oh, and your inner circle knights are core, not rare. Its just a nitpick but they need to be put up there to get your list up to the minimum core.

I also wonder if the Greatswords might not be a little small, against the wrong opponents they can go squish really quickly, and if you're bunkering your wizard lord in there it'll be a very tasty target.

Opps. Typo there on my part with regard to Inner Knights - you're right it is core now. - So if no hill, push helblaster foward with engineer. Park the cannon on the flank but slightly backward and guard it's flank with the crossbows? but it's a detachment...can it do that?

Jezbot
15-06-2012, 04:50
Opps. Typo there on my part with regard to Inner Knights - you're right it is core now. - So if no hill, push helblaster foward with engineer. Park the cannon on the flank but slightly backward and guard it's flank with the crossbows? but it's a detachment...can it do that?

The detachment has to be deployed within 3" of the parent unit, so it really depends on where you want to put the parent unit.

MyNameDidntFit
15-06-2012, 07:28
I deploy my cannons on the flanks of my army (but not the side of the board) and wait for them to charge the enemy.

Of course, I play WoC, so that's not really relevant :p

Lord Solar Plexus
19-06-2012, 12:59
All to one side, so little gets in the way and they can distract stuff away from my army.