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Bigman
10-06-2012, 15:16
The 8th edition Empire tactica thread has devolved into haggling about which units are best (subjective arguement - can be based on a number of contexts and reasons - all equally valid).

I want to start a thread with what I initially thought I would get from that thread... A tactics for fighting different factions.

With that in mind I welcome any posts that have had actual battlefield experience and found a good strategy/tactic for dealing with a faction as a whole (as in "I found that this worked well against skaven because..., rather than "DGK are the only way to deal with hell pits... The second is closed off and not framed for discussion, apart from also being too narrow in its focus).
Anything revolving around the combined use of units is also fine too,

With that said, let the games begin.

Bigman
11-06-2012, 02:44
I'll get the ball rolling with my observations on VC's.

Obvious problems:-

Can out deploy us
Lots of chaff possibilities
Plenty of ethereal
Hardcore combat lords
Psychology

Counters:-

Deployment--since you will most likely not be able to out deploy him, try using your own deployment to deny areas. He don't place knights opposite a hellblaster for example. This way you can control deployment better.

Chaff--if you play a mobile army send in small knight units to wipe them up. Defensively just use any missile fire if they haven't got better targets.

Ethereal--only way is cheap magic item characters or Mage spells. Don't allow spirit hosts to charge regiments with no magic.

Tough characters:--get into challenges to minimise there impact, to make it easier to kill more tank and file. Get combat Res up until it wipes them out too.

Psychology is also key. Be aware of the fear effect. High ld lords plus bsbs help as well!

Just be sure because empire have all the possible parts to use to defeat them.

Freman Bloodglaive
11-06-2012, 02:50
Soulfire from priests is quite good against Ethereal creatures. Said priests can also take cheap magic weapons to inflict extra wounds. It's doubtful I'd have a unit without a priest in it.

Tying up killy characters with champions sounds like a good idea.

Bigman
11-06-2012, 13:13
Soulfire from priests is quite good against Ethereal creatures. Said priests can also take cheap magic weapons to inflict extra wounds. It's doubtful I'd have a unit without a priest in it.

Tying up killy characters with champions sounds like a good idea.

Indeed, a fencers blades glittering scales -- ward save character can be a real pain in the **** to shift even for a vampire lord.

Bigman
11-06-2012, 13:16
The challenge part is difficult as the champion is te first model raised back up if they cast invocation, so be careful of that.

Also, target priority is key... Corpse cart ASAP along with black coach. Magical attacks against ethereals.I would always take a cannon in my empire lists anyway.

madival
11-06-2012, 17:12
The thing about vc is that you gotta have an incredibly balanced list or power list to fight then. If they bring ethereal heavy list, you are in trouble if you can't deal with it. If you deal with ethereal heavy lust and he fire combat heavy, you wasted points. I played a ethereal list and wrecked an empire cavalry list. His list will change to compensate and I won't be using as many ethereal so I will have an advantage right there.

Bigman
11-06-2012, 17:57
The thing about vc is that you gotta have an incredibly balanced list or power list to fight then. If they bring ethereal heavy list, you are in trouble if you can't deal with it. If you deal with ethereal heavy lust and he fire combat heavy, you wasted points. I played a ethereal list and wrecked an empire cavalry list. His list will change to compensate and I won't be using as many ethereal so I will have an advantage right there.

In my opinion if building an all comers list you've got to accept that u need 1-2 magical attacks / spells that can deal with the models he may have. Even then magic missiles aren't wasted as I've yet to find a vamps list with no chaff even if it has little ethereal.

This is fairly moot as the majority of lists I see for empire have the lvl 4 light anway.

Tuttivillus
11-06-2012, 18:19
My opponent plays etheral heavy lists quite often. I learned that captasus with swords +1/+2A + potion of foolhardiness is great against them. He takes etheral cavalry and all chaffs pretty easily. For me the biggest issue was a 35 skelly unit with 8 wraiths and a master necro inside :D

wascloud
11-06-2012, 18:22
I've found DGK invaluable against ogres, they are fast enough to get favourable matchups, and can grind bulls down like nobody's business

Morax
11-06-2012, 18:42
My opponent plays etheral heavy lists quite often. I learned that captasus with swords +1/+2A + potion of foolhardiness is great against them. He takes etheral cavalry and all chaffs pretty easily. For me the biggest issue was a 35 skelly unit with 8 wraiths and a master necro inside :D

Try taking the same captasus but with a sword of antiheroes. He'll move in and drop most of them in one turn. That build winds up looking like; Captain, Pegasus, Fullplate, Sword of Antiheros, Enchanted Shield (if you haven't given it to someone else, if so Dragon Helm and Shield), and Luckstone. He'll likely charge in and mop the floor with the bulk of the unit by himself.

Bigman
11-06-2012, 20:12
Try taking the same captasus but with a sword of antiheroes. He'll move in and drop most of them in one turn. That build winds up looking like; Captain, Pegasus, Fullplate, Sword of Antiheros, Enchanted Shield (if you haven't given it to someone else, if so Dragon Helm and Shield), and Luckstone. He'll likely charge in and mop the floor with the bulk of the unit by himself.

Solid ideas, I find captasus to be a versatile unit for us.

Moving on from VC, has anyone got any ideas against another faction? Share the movement ideas you implemented if they worked, or match ups that were favourable and got you results.

Tuttivillus
11-06-2012, 21:35
I've found DGK invaluable against ogres, they are fast enough to get favourable matchups, and can grind bulls down like nobody's business

Out of curiosity, how do You kit them and with how many models in a unit?

Souppilgrim
11-06-2012, 23:09
If you deal with ethereal heavy lust and he fire combat heavy, you wasted points.

let's leave supernatural erotica out of this,shall we?

GrandmasterWang
12-06-2012, 07:30
On the vc front, what are some of the best ways to deal with units of 6 horrors or varghiests?

The flying varghiests especially cause problems with their movement while the horrors are just tough.

Morax
12-06-2012, 13:01
Varghiests can be lead by the nose with their leadership 7 and frenzy. I find detachments of 5 archers to be ideal for this as they can get infront of them, fire off a few shots, stand and shoot on the resulting charge, then die and force the Varghiests to overrun into uselessness. A detachment of free company might work as well but the extra 10 points you spend on the archers is worth it just for the skirmish formation imo.

Horrors are not so tough once you get through that regen save. Warrior priests granting flaming attacks seem to work best for me as it doesn't leave the unit useless against that combat lord with a dragon helm. It you are still having trouble with them, you should look at what lore you are fielding on your magic support. A popemobile with conclave of light wizards will put a hurting on the undead like you won't believe. No one likes eating a potential 6d6 strength 6 hits a turn (Banishment from the popemobile, Banishment from the wizard lord with a level 2 wizard in range of them both).

Bigman
12-06-2012, 18:14
On the vc front, what are some of the best ways to deal with units of 6 horrors or varghiests?

The flying varghiests especially cause problems with their movement while the horrors are just tough.

As mentioned above vargheists are led by frenzy, or if not a unit of equivalent knights on the charge will make them hurt barring a dice problem.

I faced 8 horrors recently. My army had shadow lore but a WA as well. I just hit flaming, bounced to halberdiers, bounces to handgunners, shot, did a wound, then hit with hellblaster and cannon. Shoring works nicely but dot forget the corpse cart! It is vital as empire to take it out. Having them
Hit second is usually enough to win combats.