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View Full Version : Read, Don't Skim: A Plea for 6th Edition



Chapters Unwritten
11-06-2012, 16:01
6th ed is right around the corner, and I have a request/suggestion/plea for the players of 40k out there:

Please read the book. Do not skim. Do not thumb through and look for the new stuff and fill in the holes with the previous edition. Read it, top to bottom.

I ask - nay, implore! - my fellow players to do this because, to be perfectly blunt, I find that most rules errors I see come not from new players who are uncertain, but from the surly older lot who give the book a cursory once-over and, after touching on only the major points, fill in all the blanks with knowledge from previous editions.

If you plan to play 6th edition, try to treat it like a new game. I encourage my group to do this and it has worked out very well for us in terms of everyone learning the nuances of the game much quicker and cleaner, or at least it helped us transition from 4th to 5th. Just something to keep in mind!

de Selby
11-06-2012, 16:09
While I will make the effort to read the whole thing (at least, I plan on just buying the boxed game this time so I'll read the whole mini-rulebook), I've found it's hard to un-learn the previous editions even so. It's just plain difficult to mentally replace old rules with new, slighty-different-but-almost-the-same rules, particularly if you don't play often.

Lucifig
11-06-2012, 16:58
Yeah, I still mostly use 4th edition rules. I can't help it...it is the game I learned first.

xxRavenxx
11-06-2012, 17:11
I'm not only going to skim it, but also the bits I do read, I'll falsely represent to my opponents to sow further confusion! Muahahahahaha.


Also, I'm bored...

sprugly
11-06-2012, 17:31
Yeah I'll probably skim it to start with and have a game or two while we learn the new rules. Amongst my playing group I'll probably be the first to buy the rules and will be the one who spends the most time reading them and teaching the others the rules.

But I've had a little time I do tend to read the rulebooks cover to cover, and pick up all the bits I missed
Sprugly

Sami
11-06-2012, 17:37
Will read it cover to cover the day it comes out then forget everything new within 24 hours.

jifel
11-06-2012, 17:52
Something that GW did last update was an article that listed the main changes of 5th, if they do it again it ll help a lot, at least for basic rule changes. But last time, I read the BRB at breakfast, lunch and dinner, before I slept, and I usually put a few hours a day into tearing the rules apart. You definitely raise a good point though, veterans need to be careful not to assume things.

Lord Damocles
11-06-2012, 17:53
TL;DR


:shifty:

Noserenda
11-06-2012, 18:05
Im sorry, 6 Editions of mostly similar game have an awful habit of sticking in my ageing brain and thats before the Specialist games and Warhammer peek in... :D

BooTMGSG
11-06-2012, 19:01
Isn't it easier just to skim it, then fill in the blanks from the internet, cos the internet is never wrong.

Chapters Unwritten
11-06-2012, 21:25
I appreciate the humor, heh.

We're all guilty of this, I just wanted to give a word of warning. A lot of vets feel like when you pull out the rulebook on them it's some kind of sign of disrespect around our way and I hate having to do it, especially at the onset of a new edition, but if I read the whole book and someone else skims it that's just how the cookie crumbles.

Rick Blaine
11-06-2012, 22:10
I'll read it. And I'll even remember everything forever and not mix editions. That's how my brain is wired (but I can't remember faces, lol)

huitzilopochtli
11-06-2012, 22:32
I'm not only going to skim it, but also the bits I do read, I'll falsely represent to my opponents to sow further confusion! Muahahahahaha.

Awesome. Just awesome.

Bunnahabhain
11-06-2012, 22:39
I'm not going to read, I'm just going to complain about it.

AndrewGPaul
11-06-2012, 22:44
If I do pick it up, going by previous experience, I'll start off reading it properly but get bored halfway through the movement section, then skim the rest, skip to the background section and look at the pictures. During gameplay, I'll confuse bits with previous editions, make up rules on the spot when I can't remember what was in the rulebook and generally just wing it. It's served me well for the past fifteen years, I see no reason to change my approach now. :)

The bearded one
11-06-2012, 22:49
I read 8th edition fantasy, instead of skimming it, and even now I'm better informed of certain nuances in the rules, particularly in correct order of things in the charging sub-phase, where people often just criss-cross different actions, while simply the right order can make a gigantic difference in tactical application. Reading it carefully instead of quikly paging through it can make a large difference and I plan to do it for 6th edition too. For example last saturday; with charging you normally declare a charge and immediately resolve the reaction (fleeing, shooting, standing), then declare the next, resolve the next reaction etc. etc. and only in the very end do you start moving all of the charges. This allowed me to stand my ground against charge A from nasty cold one knights, before fleeing from charge B from some shades and end up fleeing in front of the cold one knights, obstructing their charge.

Yes, carefully reading a new ruleset can make a lot of difference. It's fairly odd, but funny, that a player who is new to 40K can know his first edition better, than someone who has played the game through several editions and makes some assumptions to fill in blanks.

Chapters Unwritten
11-06-2012, 23:58
I would say that is the case pretty consistently, honestly.

ForgottenLore
12-06-2012, 00:02
I would be thrilled if most of the people in my LGS would even skim the rules. It seems that most of the time they rely on someone else to get the new rules and explain the differences to them. A Couple years ago we started a new game and out of about a dozen players, I think only 3 actually even bought the rulebook.

Myself, if I am going to play a game, I will get the rules, read them cover to cover, play a game or two, then go back and read the rules through again, making particular note of things I got wrong in the first games.

VendableFall
12-06-2012, 00:16
If I do pick it up, going by previous experience, I'll start off reading it properly but get bored halfway through the movement section, then skim the rest, skip to the background section and look at the pictures. During gameplay, I'll confuse bits with previous editions, make up rules on the spot when I can't remember what was in the rulebook and generally just wing it. It's served me well for the past fifteen years, I see no reason to change my approach now. :)

i lol'd, this is exactly what i do, exactly!

zantis
12-06-2012, 05:36
Why not just skim it. What you'll end up with is 5th players following the changes that improve the game, and ignoring the ones that screw it up. How is that bad?

Chapters Unwritten
12-06-2012, 05:52
No one ignores "the parts that screw it up" - people are subjective, especially 40k fans in my experience, and they will ignore the parts that benefit them most.

Besides. Call me crazy, but it might be better to play the game consistently and in full, than to wing it and leave things out.

Axeman1n
12-06-2012, 07:38
My most recent gamer buddy floored me when I asked him if he had read the rule book. He said, he'd read most of it. He get's rules wrong all the time too. IMO, most people don't really read everything in the sourcebooks they own. I read each one of my books cover to cover and I still get things wrong. IMO, if you want to play at a level with other tournament players, you should read the main rule book at least 3 times through, and 5 times through their codex.

Justicar_Freezer
12-06-2012, 07:54
To be fair it's a game. If you're playing with your buddies or gaming group for fun who cares if you mix editions. If it's fun for all involved than that's all that matters. Also some people learn better by playing/being shown the new rules than simply reading through them. The thing with new editions of warhammer/40k is that really the rule changes aren't that huge and it's easy for people who have been playing since 3rd edition really since 2nd edition was a bit of a different beast to mix and match things.

However if you're planning on playing in tournies or being super competitive then yes you should know the rules with which the people you are playing with will be using inside and out maybe even sideways and upside down.

It just depends on what camp you come from and what you're looking to get out of the game.

Ebon
12-06-2012, 08:28
6th ed is right around the corner, and I have a request/suggestion/plea for the players of 40k out there:

Please read the book. Do not skim. Do not thumb through and look for the new stuff and fill in the holes with the previous edition. Read it, top to bottom.

I ask - nay, implore! - my fellow players to do this because, to be perfectly blunt, I find that most rules errors I see come not from new players who are uncertain, but from the surly older lot who give the book a cursory once-over and, after touching on only the major points, fill in all the blanks with knowledge from previous editions.

If you plan to play 6th edition, try to treat it like a new game. I encourage my group to do this and it has worked out very well for us in terms of everyone learning the nuances of the game much quicker and cleaner, or at least it helped us transition from 4th to 5th. Just something to keep in mind!

An eminently reasonable request. Deal.

Memnos
12-06-2012, 08:54
I am entirely guilty of this. I read the book, but some things just don't 'stick' when you've been using other rules. I will attempt to do so, though I can make no guarantees. Thankfully, I don't get upset when I'm corrected and insist I'm correct. I will simply look it up.


6th ed is right around the corner, and I have a request/suggestion/plea for the players of 40k out there:

Please read the book. Do not skim. Do not thumb through and look for the new stuff and fill in the holes with the previous edition. Read it, top to bottom.

I ask - nay, implore! - my fellow players to do this because, to be perfectly blunt, I find that most rules errors I see come not from new players who are uncertain, but from the surly older lot who give the book a cursory once-over and, after touching on only the major points, fill in all the blanks with knowledge from previous editions.

If you plan to play 6th edition, try to treat it like a new game. I encourage my group to do this and it has worked out very well for us in terms of everyone learning the nuances of the game much quicker and cleaner, or at least it helped us transition from 4th to 5th. Just something to keep in mind!

Chapters Unwritten
12-06-2012, 12:54
The book is there for us to use, so being wrong or mistaken isn't as much the problem as being unwilling to look things up, or excited to glaze things over.

I don't know why there is so much of a casual approach to the rules. The books have previously stated change what you don't like, but to mix in old or incorrect rules in the middle of the game is...well, that's very different then saying to your buddies, "Let's play without/with [rule x/y/z]" and them saying "Okay."

Isambard
12-06-2012, 13:11
I am going to read the thing cover to cover, probably on the first day and then a few times more.

And I am still going to get things wrong. I have been playing since Rogue Trader and there are still bits I mix up. But I don't mind checking the rules and I don't mind when other people get things mixed up, we are only human.

Learning and mastering a new set of rules is, for me at least, half the fun of the game.

Corvus Corone
12-06-2012, 13:14
I'm a lawyer. Like Rick Blaine, my brain is just wired so that reading the rules a) is very enjoyable in and of itself and b) creates its own 'game system entry' pattern/trace/system in my memory that is completely distinct from any other.

It also means I find it really funny when I get called a rules lawyer.

Jim Bowen
12-06-2012, 13:32
What a great thread and a sensible plea (probably why it has not generated page after page of replies) I agree when ever I get a new rule book I read it right through I don't have a diedatic memory so it doesn't stick straight away but the foundation is there even games I play alot I re read the rule book on a reguklar baisis because you never know what you might have missed or had a flawed interpretation of.

Memnos
12-06-2012, 13:33
I am going to read the thing cover to cover, probably on the first day and then a few times more.

And I am still going to get things wrong. I have been playing since Rogue Trader and there are still bits I mix up. But I don't mind checking the rules and I don't mind when other people get things mixed up, we are only human.

Learning and mastering a new set of rules is, for me at least, half the fun of the game.

There's nothing wrong with playing by the rules. There IS something wrong with taking an obscure interpretation of the rules and insisting on that being correct for advantage. It's worse when you spring it on someone in the middle of a game as a means to win. That's not winning, but more like playing Chess with someone and then finding a manual from 1515 AD that insists that a gentleman from Nottingham wearing a jaunty cap gets two moves if he's playing black on alternate thursdays in the month of June in the New World, then screaming 'Checkmate!' over and over again until the other person leaves.

AndrewGPaul
12-06-2012, 14:21
I don't know why there is so much of a casual approach to the rules. The books have previously stated change what you don't like, but to mix in old or incorrect rules in the middle of the game is...well, that's very different then saying to your buddies, "Let's play without/with [rule x/y/z]" and them saying "Okay."

For me, it's because I don't care about playing a competetive game. Sure, I like to win, and I'm not deliberately trying to throw the game or anything, but it's the process that's important, not the end result. I've got three or four hours a week to get a game in, so I want to fill those hours with an interesting game of 40K, not wipe out the opponent in the first turn, or spend all game arguing over the rules. It's about telling the story, and the rules are only part of the tools for doing that. If we can't remember a rule, and we can't locate it in a second or so in the rulebook, then we make something up and get on with it. If it's that important, we can look it up after the game. If there's ambiguity, then it's resolved in favour of whatever seems "coolest" or most appropriate to the setting.

I understand you don't see it like this, and nor does the OP or many others in this thread; fair enough, and if we want to discuss it, there's a hundred threads already on the subject, where both sides can while away the hours missing each others' point. :) That's why I treat the rules as I do, though, in answer to your question.

If my opponent has issues with things, then I can discuss them with him or her. I'm not insisting it's my way or the highway.

It's not restricted to 40K, either; I've found it pretty common for the old 2nd edition 40K rules for difficult ground, obstacles and forests to sort of find their way into whatever game we're playing at the time, because they're nice and simple and not as fiddly as other ways of doing it. :)

ReveredChaplainDrake
12-06-2012, 14:48
My brother and I will be going over the rules pretty thoroughly, playing against each other a few games until we get the hang of the rules before being 'released into the wild', as it were.

This didn't really happen in 5th, which is why to this day you still have people screwing up, improperly playing, or straight-up ignoring wound allocation. That said, it's really impressive how well True LOS has been handled by those gamers I've seen, especially seeing how many 4th ed vets complained about that.

The problem probably isn't going to be with those on Warseer ignoring or not reading rules, or at least not on purpose. We've got enough investment sunk into this hobby that we join a forum where we all discuss the rules and mechanics frequently, correcting one another as often as we screw up. The ones who will ignore and misread the rules are those who aren't on the forums. Our problem is that we're gonna' read the new rules and have the most broken and exploitable mechanics nailed down within about an hour. Maybe half-an-hour if we put our heads together.

artekfrost
12-06-2012, 14:54
There's nothing wrong with playing by the rules. There IS something wrong with taking an obscure interpretation of the rules and insisting on that being correct for advantage. It's worse when you spring it on someone in the middle of a game as a means to win. That's not winning, but more like playing Chess with someone and then finding a manual from 1515 AD that insists that a gentleman from Nottingham wearing a jaunty cap gets two moves if he's playing black on alternate thursdays in the month of June in the New World, then screaming 'Checkmate!' over and over again until the other person leaves.

wait, so the jaunty cap thing isn't an actual rule? that cheeky bastard!
mind if I use that quote for my sig?

Xerxesian
12-06-2012, 14:55
To the OP: Being a confirmed member of the "surly older lot" you are giving us far too much credit! You'll see, once you get to 45+ you'll have trouble remembering your name on occasion, your own cell #, and how to spell easy words (like occasion) that you've been using for decades. You expect me to remember 40k rules? Just last week I quipped during a game with my son, now that I've finally mastered all the 5th edition rules, GW decides to do 6th Edition. The very next turn, you guessed it, I forgot a rule.

On the plus side, having these memory lapses allows me to believe all those myths I've made up about myself for longer periods of time, sometimes even until my wife comes home.

Memnos
12-06-2012, 14:58
wait, so the jaunty cap thing isn't an actual rule? that cheeky bastard!
mind if I use that quote for my sig?

You may. ;)

Vilrandir
12-06-2012, 15:19
I started playing 40k again about a year ago after maybe 6 years or so of not playing so I can relate to the topic. I vaguely remembered the previous edition I played so I bought the book and made the conscious decision to read it thoroughly, even all the fluff. I can tell you that it was great relearning the bits and it helped me get on my feet faster, definitely spend the time on this

Monospot
12-06-2012, 15:28
My plan is to read it and take notes. This will result in the following conversation:

Wife - "Are you studying something for work?"
Me - "Nope, new 40K edition rulebook"
Wife - "But you're taking notes!"
Me - "Yup, lot to re-learn"
Wife - "Don't you play that game for fun?"
Me - "Yup"
Wife - "How is studying fun? This looks like statistics homework!"
Me - "Maybe, but I can drink beer while I am studying this. Speakin of which, can you get me another"
Wife - <insert grumbling here, and I have to get my own beer>
Me -<calling after departing wife> "Its still cheaper and better for me that strippers and blow, OR your clothes shopping!"
<insert minor victory in anotherwise losing war here>
:)

Memnos
12-06-2012, 15:41
Me -<calling after departing wife> "Its still cheaper and better for me that strippers and blow, OR your clothes shopping!"
<insert minor victory in anotherwise losing war here>
:)

And then she'll respond with total agreement, and goes on to promise that in order to save money, blowing won't enter in to the relationship at all.

And minor victory turns sour.

Captain Collius
12-06-2012, 15:51
To the Original Poster: I will try however i still manage to mix up rules from 3rd that screw up my interpratation of 5th. So in summary GET ON WITH IT!

to monospot: You think you won however even that victory will turn to ashes if she hears what you said.

halosghost
12-06-2012, 16:12
I shall read the rules a couple of times through, then read them again before I play a game......then forget them because I have an awfull memory

halo...

Egaeus
12-06-2012, 16:42
Wife - "How is studying fun? This looks like statistics homework!"

It's an attitude like this that makes me weep for humanity. Learning should be an enjoyable experience. :p

I think that even if one does read the book cover-to-cover it's not necessarily going to prevent mis-remembering rules when you actually go to play. So I think a good plan might be to keep the book handy and refer to it often during one's first couple of games with a new edition (after reading through it, of course).

I also think that people's tendency to skim is due to the fact that the system isn't likely to change that significantly, so there's the perception that we already know how many things work. So there's a tendency to gloss over things that we see as redundant. As much as there can be minor tweaks here and there I expect the core system to remain pretty much the same.

xerxeshavelock
12-06-2012, 16:47
I'm not only going to skim it, but also the bits I do read, I'll falsely represent to my opponents to sow further confusion! Muahahahahaha.

You da man! Er..... :o)

OP - what you ask is logical, but optimistic. The ones who will do as you say are those that really want to win and new players. Everyone else will be playing a mix of 4th, 5th, 6th and Warmahoardes (or insert random ruleset to taste).

ForgottenLore
12-06-2012, 16:55
OP - what you ask is logical, but optimistic. The ones who will do as you say are those that really want to win and new players. Everyone else will be playing a mix...

I disagree, the ones who will do it are the ones who find game rules fascinating in and of themselves (like me), or those for whom "playing correctly" is an important consideration

Chapters Unwritten
12-06-2012, 18:12
I disagree, the ones who will do it are the ones who find game rules fascinating in and of themselves (like me), or those for whom "playing correctly" is an important considerationThis is indeed my stance on things. I am fascinated by the rules and find that as I read them, I can almost see what they intend to convey. That is why I like this game so much more than the other ones out there; it "feels" better, rather than feeling like it's just crunching numbers.

I also feel that playing correctly (as correctly as one can) is imperative, but not for competitive reasons. I just feel that it's the only way to justify my opinions and discussion of the game, to know it in and out. As an example I once showed a friend a championship finals game of Basketball. Not understanding the game deeply, he began to discuss it with me and give me lots of potential awkward strategies (like having your whole starting group just be huge guys who try to hurt the other players, and then swapping them out with real players once guys were hurt).

I just don't want to find myself in the same boat. I did once; long ago I participated in a 4e discussion here on Warseer where I discussed ATSKNF, and defended the rule as being not even that useful, when I was corrected on how it works. Embarrassing to say the least.

Of course, that's no reason for folks to not do their own thing. I just have had a lot of run-ins with guys who don't make that explicitly clear when they play my club, which is of course a by-the-book affair for consistency's sake.

Enigma6
12-06-2012, 18:58
I'm a cover-to-cover guy, and I'll remember most of it after the second read forever. I'm currently fluent in leakhammer even though it will never be useful.

I appreciate that my memory is better than most for stuff like that and I don't expect everyone to have the same obsessiveness for learning the rules. I'm also perfectly ok with house rules and playing purely for enjoyment.

When I have issues is when your trying to have fun with someone who didn't think learning the rules were all that important and they try to do something that they made up or from a previous edition. You have to stop them and tell them they can't do it.

It can really ruin the experience and actually take away the fun from that game.

I know that's their own fault and they get no sympathy in a competative environment but if you claim to be playing for fun then everyone being as grounded in the rules as they can be leads to a much smoother experience where you can focus on that story element because the flow wont be interrupted by the old:-
'Then, just as heroic Sgt Gabriel was about to charge the rabble of doomed orcs... one of them shouted "But you can't charge if the guy next to you shot with a Rapid Fire weapon!" so, feeling a little foolish, Sgt Gabriel stood around sheepishly and let them shoot him next turn'

Chapters Unwritten
12-06-2012, 19:43
I try to be as forgiving as I can in those situations, pointing it out and letting the weird thing happen anyway. But despite the friendly "I just want to have fun!" attitude that approaches these folks, there is also a startling correlation (at least in my experiences) where the rules that "aren't fun" are often the same ones that balance their army.

But in all fairness to the play your own way crowd out there, I think it is at least a courtesy to know the "real" way to play and to assume that when a fellow asks you for a game of 40k 6e, that is what he is talking about and anything else should be brought up/discussed.

red_zebra_ve
12-06-2012, 22:02
I will read, study, and hopefully forget all about 5th. . . Then my Orks will "stand and shoot" when charged, and my darks elves will "Consolidate" after winning a close combat :)

MajorWesJanson
13-06-2012, 00:01
I got into Warhammer in late 4th, but did not play enough for 4th to really set up in my mind. Only recently do I think that I finally have close combat fully figured out. Now they are going to change that on me :(

Gorbad Ironclaw
13-06-2012, 11:47
I agree, but GW could make it a lot easier than they do to pick up new editions as well if they had a clearer way of writing the rules. Don't mix narrative and rules and present the rules in a clear and logical manner. Then it would also be easier to mark out what parts have changed. Take a look at how Battlefront writes Flames of War. It's a lot easier to read those rules and actually get the rules than it is reading GW rules and knowing what they are/have changed.

So yes, people should read the rules, but it could be helped by GW if they wanted to.

Bassik
14-06-2012, 08:46
Most people in our gaming club will probably read it back to back on day one, myself included. And then continue to confuse rules from different editions, because that's just what happens. I sometimes remember 3rd edition rules and confuse them for 5th!

Bunnahabhain
14-06-2012, 08:54
Of course, if they made a real 6th ed, entirely new, and not simply version 3.3, that would help greatly.
If movement, for instance was a cm value, not a morass of special rules, that would be very different, and people would remember it....Oh look, a flying pig!