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NixonAsADaemonPrince
12-06-2012, 12:30
Welcome to the thread, here's a summary of the rumours concerning the set so far. Please remember these are just rumours, and thanks should go to the rumourmancers for posting them.

Note: Unless stated otherwise, all rumours are recent.

T-Tauri:
Teaser Video from GW (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q71V-M85mfw&feature=player_embedded)

Photos courtesy of Svanhvit of Reddit:

Photo of the Dark Vengeance box set, with the Limited Edition Dark Angel Interrogator Chaplain pictured at the top of the right hand page:

148537

Photo of Chaos Lord (Top left) Helbrute (Top right) and Chosen (The rest):

148538

Photo of Chaos Cultists:

148539

Photo of Dark Angels: Company Master (Top left) Librarian (Top) Limited Edition Interrogator Chaplain (Top left) and Tactical squad (The rest):

148540

Photo of Dark Angels: Deathwing Terminators (Top) and Ravenwing Bikes (The rest):

148541

The release date:

Now numerous sources:
Pre-orders go up on August 25th for release on September 1st.

Stickmonkey:
Starter Sets :angel: up for Pre-order August 25th. Released September 1st.

Which means there should be photos of everything posted sometime around August 21st-22nd.

A Birdy:
The starter is due September 1st, staffers have a block for holidays on that weekend and the following weeks.

One of Darnok's Birdies:
I can confirm 100% that the Starter Set is slated for a September release

75hastings69:
I'm expecting the Starter Set mid September

General info:

gilljoy:
The box set costs 65 and includes

1 Dark Angels Company Master
1 Dark Angels Librarian
5 Deathwing Terminators
10 Dark Angel Tactical Marines
3 Ravenwing Bikes
1 Interrogator-Chaplain(Only while supplies last of Dark Vengeance Box Set)
1 Chaos Lord
6 Chosen
1 Helbrute
20 Chaos Cultists
48p How To Play Booklet
1 Reference Sheet
168p Rulebook
1 Flamer Template
1 Small Blast Marker
1 Large Blast Marker
1 Dice Pack
2 Range Rulers

Harry:
There is a special (Limited run) edition of the Starter Set.

Erazmus_M_Wattle
The Dark Angels Chaplain is in the limited edition box.

Erazmus_M_Wattle
As far as I know the limited edition box is not too much more expensive than the regular set. I also think the limited box will be released first and the regular box later. But don't take that as an unshakeable rumour. I'm not 100% sure on it. It's just been suggested to me that it might be the case.

Beasts of War:
The box set is named Dark Vengeance.

Beasts of War:
The box will contain a smaller version of the 40k Rulebook.

Beasts of War:
There will be templates included in the box, and a new How to Play Dark Vengeance booklet, that allows you to jump right into the action.

75hastings69:
The 6th ed Starter Set will be Dark Angels vs Chaos

Kaelarr:
I can tell you one thing, the models are totally awesome ;)

Tallarn, from Astronomican, on 30 September 2011:
There will be two versions of the starter set for the first time. Rather than the box containing two armies each will have one, so Dark Angels versions and a Traitor version. Each will have a selection of figures, but the extra space in the box will focus on scenery. So there will be a small Dark Angels force with a Dark Angels specific piece of scenery in one box, and a small Traitor force and Chaos specific scenery in the other.

The Chaos contents:

Beasts of War:
The Chaos Cultists consist of 2 units of 10 Chaos Cultist models, one unit armed with Auto-guns (with a Shotgun & CC weapon for the leader and a Heavy Stubber support trooper) and the other unit with Auto-pistol & CC weapon (with 2 CC weapons for the leader and a Flamer support model).

The Chaos Cultists are bound in rags, with metal half-masks and weapons that suit the cobbled-together, improvised look that you expect from the dregs of Chaos.

Beasts of War:
There are 6 Chosen…elite Chaos Space Marines, armed with a variety of Power Weapons (A Maul on the Sergeant, and a Power Fist, a Chain Axe and a set of Lightning Claws by the look of thing interspersed on the other models by the looks of things). The remaining Chosen are armed with Boltguns.

Beasts of War:
The Chaos Lord is armed with a Power Sword & Plasma Pistol. His pose is a bit static, but that is only in comparison to the much more animated Chosen.

Beasts of War:
There is also the massive Helbrute model, which comes equipped with a Multi-Melta and a Power Fist. It seems that this isn’t a Dreadnought replacement, but is in fact a huge suit of specialist armour crewed by a Chaos Marine (or more likely a Champion). Actually, the model resembles a huge suit of Terminator Armour with lots of cool Chaos gribbly bits.

Tokugawa:
The unit entry has been leaked. Just saw it quoted on chinese forums.

Chaos part:
Lord (In Power Armor)
Chaos Dreadnought (With Twin Linked Melta and DCCW)
Chosen (6 strong, with Power Maul, Power Fist and Lightning Claw)
Cultists (20 strong, half with close combat weapon and pistol, the other half with assault rifle)

75hastings69:
The Chaos forces are made up of CSM Chosen, as well as Cultists/Traitors and a funky Chaos Dreadnought.... amongst others ;)

MajorWesJanson:

Starter news I have heard from several places now:

Chaos:
Sorcerer
Chosen
CSM squad?
Cultists
Posessed?
Dreadnought?

Dreadnought seems likely. CSM squad may be referring to the Chosen, or may not. Posessed will have to see.

Kaelarr:
The Chaos forces are a CSM Sorcerer, a unit of Marines, a unit of Possessed and a unit of Cultists

Kaelarr:
I must make a retraction - There is a Chaos dread in the starter set, but it is not the multipart plastic kit, that will be released separately. Sorry, there were some crossed wires in my info...

The Dark Angel contents:

B]Beasts of War:[/B]
The Tactical Marine squad of 10 models comes with the ordinary Space Marine grunts sporting a Boltguns, but the squad also has a Plasma Gunner and a Heavy Plasma Cannon model, with a Plasma Pistol and Chainsword Sergeant.

The Tactical Squad also has a mixture of poses, this time around. Some of the Bolter-totting Marines are holding their ubiquitous weapon at jaunty angles to make the squad look a bit more animated… and it works too… good job GW!

Beasts of War:
Each of the 5 strong Space Marine Terminator squad is armed with a Stormbolter and Power Fist, with a Power Sword instead of a Power Fist on the Sergeant. However, you do get an Assault Cannon and a Chainfist option… and true to previous form… the models now come in a variety of more dynamic poses with the squad Sergeant even sporting Wings.

Beasts of War:
The unit of 3 Space Marine (or Ravenwing) Bikers consists of a Sergeant, one Biker sporting a Bolt Pistol and Chainsword, and the third Biker packing a Plasma Gun. The models look similar to previous Ravenwing Bikers (With that big wing banner on the back) and are probably the least inspiring out of the box.

Beasts of War:
There will be 3 Dark Angel characters in the box:

A Dark Angels Company Master named Balthasar, armed with a Power Sword.

A Dark Angels Librarian equipped with a Force Sword.

And a limited edition Interrogator Chaplain, with an embellished robe and Power Armour including smoking exhaust details, possibly making this the most ostentatious model in the box!

Erazmus_M_Wattle
The Dark Angels Chaplain is in the limited edition box.

Tokugawa:
The unit entry has been leaked. Just saw it quoted on chinese forums.

Dark Angel part:

Captain Balthasar(In Power Armor, not in Terminator Armour)
Librarian (In Power Armor)
Deathwing Squad (5 strong, with Storm Bolters, no Stormshields)
Tactical Sqaud (10 strong, with 1 Plasma Cannon and 1 Plasma Gun)
Ravenwing Squad (3 Bikes)

Starchild:
The Dark Angels will be as stated: Deathwing Master, Deathwing squad, Ravenwing Bike squadron (Not Jetbikes), and a Tactical squad. :skull:

Kaelarr:
The Dark Angels are a Terminator Captain, a unit of Deathwing, a unit of Ravenwing and a unit of Marines.

MajorWesJanson:

Starter news I have heard from several places now:

Dark Angels:
Terminator Captain
5 Deathwing
Tactical Squad
Ravenwing bikes (3 likely)

Stickmonkey:
The Dark Angel Tactical squad are not the Assault on Black Reach marines, these are new sculpts and there is Dark Angel iconography on them.

Stickmonkey:
One bit I'm really not certain on is this bit, but I've had some info passed on that the Dark Angel Tactical squad includes a Sergeant with Combi Weapon and Power Sword, 7 Bolter marines, 1 with Meltagun, and 1 with Plasma Cannon. I'd frankly be surprised if this is the load out though, and it wasn't the more generic Flamer and Missile Launcher.


There you go, if you have any rumours to add, whether you want to remain anonymous or not, please just send me a PM :)

Badruk
12-06-2012, 12:36
Thanks for the infos! Seems a nice way to start a Dark Angels army :)
Marines are most likely a tactical squad.
Do you know if the DA minis will wear the Dark Angels sign on them or a bit a generic sign like they did with the tactical squad, wearing the regular Tactical sign on right shoulder

Azazyll
12-06-2012, 13:22
My understanding was that there was some disagreement as to exactly what the "unit of Ravenwing" would be. Wasn't there some indication that it would be jetbikes? or was that just wishlisting?

Kapeg90
12-06-2012, 13:32
Thanks for the info man! Sounds like an awesome set to start Chaos or Dark Angels to be honest; I can't wait to see the models!

:D

Starchild
12-06-2012, 13:36
There will be no Dark Angel jetbikes in the starter box! This was just a wish that got out of control.

Elios Harg
12-06-2012, 13:43
There will be no Dark Angel jetbikes in the starter box! This was just a wish that got out of control.

Agreed. Even in the unlikely event that Dark Angels get a jetbike unit in their next book, it would be a huge mistake on GW's part to make that unit available through the starter set. As a separate 3-man box set, it would sell huge amounts.

Starchild
12-06-2012, 14:49
The thing is though, even if indeed it will be a new unit (not saying it is!) it would be a fairly large kit, only one to a box. Space Marine jetbikes aren't little! Look at Sammael's bike for a minimum size (but again, I'm quite sure his will remain the only one left in the galaxy.)

Elios Harg
12-06-2012, 14:56
Well, bloodcrushers were initially a single box kit in metal as well, and then became 3 to a box plastic. Same with Thunderwolves. So I could see them being a 3 to box plastic kit in the same vein. But, like you, I don't think it will ever happen. Either way, I'm fairly certain that it will merely be 3 normal Ravenwing bikes in the boxset

FerociousBeast
12-06-2012, 15:13
Hastings has assured us repeatedly that the starter contains a dread. I'd update the first post ;)

Furor Teutonicus
12-06-2012, 15:18
Thanks for the info and for starting a starter-set-thread . Until now the info on the starter set was spread out on several threads and cumbersome to follow. I play both DA and CSM and will probably buy more than just one starter box.

GW2lag
12-06-2012, 16:10
I can see some people using the tactical and deathwing squads in addition to the CSM do start a nice Word Bearers army

Kisanis
12-06-2012, 16:27
The thing is though, even if indeed it will be a new unit (not saying it is!) it would be a fairly large kit, only one to a box. Space Marine jetbikes aren't little! Look at Sammael's bike for a minimum size (but again, I'm quite sure his will remain the only one left in the galaxy.)

Yes.. and apparently there are only a handful of Grey Knights in the Galaxy, who rarely fight as a single cohesive force... :shifty:

Freakiq
12-06-2012, 17:19
Any info on whether the chaos forces will be legion specific or generic?

Ivellis
12-06-2012, 17:52
This box will be so awesome for starting a Fallen army.

All Cing Eye
12-06-2012, 17:58
This box will be so awesome for starting a Fallen army.

Agreed

A small DA and a small CSM force, or one nice sized Fallen themed army

Dorian Weaver
12-06-2012, 18:42
But which codex would you use for that Fallen army?

Ivellis
12-06-2012, 18:51
But which codex would you use for that Fallen army?

Well they are chaos marines, so the CSM codex obviously. But the beauty of being Fallen is that if you like the Dark Angels book more than the Chaos book whenever that comes out you could just switch without anyone making a big deal out of it. Probably.

Souleater
12-06-2012, 19:51
Another vote of thanks for seperating this into a distinct thread. I'm really not too fussed about the MRB but very, very excited about the potential Chaos army I can begin around this new set.

The big question for me at the moment is what the 'Limited Edition Starter Set' will contain...just different coloured templates or a backpack and case to carry the army...

To the Fallen thing you could use the DA codex for Ravenwing/Deathwing forces or Chaos for daemon /cultist heavy forces. If the models are suitably converted and painted I would find it quite acceptable.

Tyranus
12-06-2012, 23:37
Agreed. Even in the unlikely event that Dark Angels get a jetbike unit in their next book, it would be a huge mistake on GW's part to make that unit available through the starter set. As a separate 3-man box set, it would sell huge amounts.

The same could be said for deff coptas, but we know how that went. Plenty of people bought the starter set just to get the new plastic coptas. The same would go for jet bikes in a starter set. $40 vs $100, GW likes the larger number. I'm not saying that jet bikes will be in the box, just that your post is a weak argument to use for them to not be in the box.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

NixonAsADaemonPrince
12-06-2012, 23:38
Any info on whether the chaos forces will be legion specific or generic?


Do you know if the DA minis will wear the Dark Angels sign on them or a bit a generic sign like they did with the tactical squad, wearing the regular Tactical sign on right shoulder

All the info I've accrued off our friendly rumourmancers I've put in the first post, so I'm none the wiser in regards to your inquiries :)


Hastings has assured us repeatedly that the starter contains a dread. I'd update the first post ;)

I've just collected all the rumours I could get hold of and put them together, it's up to other people to make their own decisions about them ;)

And thanks for the thanks peoples :)

CPT Commissar Ginn
13-06-2012, 07:22
So where will we get SM dread meltas?

RedemptionNL
13-06-2012, 07:36
Same place you get SM Dread autocannons. Forgeworld and custom bits shops.

the_picto
13-06-2012, 11:04
But which codex would you use for that Fallen army?

Obviously it would be the spacewolf codex. Something, something represents the army battle etc.

I really hope the september release date is wrong. I'm not buying the huge rule book this time and don't want to wait three months for the starter set. Le sigh.

MajorWesJanson
13-06-2012, 11:06
So where will we get SM dread meltas?

The next plastic Marine Dreadnought ought to have one. Marines are overdue for a new one. Joking aside, a DA release seems logical to come with a mortis dread, which could cover some of the weapon options not already in plastic multipart dreads- multimeltas and TL Autocannons come to mind

As for the starter, I am with Hastings that it will include a Chaos dread. The starter kit is meant to teach rules, and while the sorcerer being added indicates a greater focus on teaching the new psychic rules, I can't see them leaving out a vehicle as vehicles and their rules are so integral to the game. The Dreadnought is an easy choice as well, because it introduces things like the use of AV and the damage chart, while keeping movement rules similar enough to the infantry models.

deadly claris
13-06-2012, 14:51
So the only speciall unit are some bikers?
sounds lame

I mean AOBR had 1 dread and 3 cpoters
IOB had a gryfin and rat ogers

So I think the chaos dred must be in the box ?

RandomThoughts
13-06-2012, 14:59
The Dreadnought is an easy choice as well, because it introduces things like the use of AV and the damage chart, while keeping movement rules similar enough to the infantry models.

This is some twisted logic: It's great because it brings additional rules into the starter and it's also great because it doesn't weigh down the starter with additional rules... :angel:

Starchild
13-06-2012, 15:45
I just want there to be a Chaos SM Dreadnought in the starter box because Citadel couldn't be bothered to update that blasted abomination of twisted metal from... what year was that? 1996? :(

Seriously. 16(?) years is *too long* to go without updating what should have been an iconic Chaos unit. It was good of Forgeworld to fill the gap but not everyone can afford their premium Chaos Dreadnought prices! :eek:

Kaelarr
13-06-2012, 17:24
There 100% is a new plastic chaos dread. Don't forget, the box is intended for beginners, you seem to be overlooking how stupidly one sided aobr is, how do you think two guys who buy the set to learn the game with find that? One loves it and the other gets shafted.

The aim of the box is not, has never been, and never will be, to get the whole game in a box. Death wing terminators and captain are a pretty damn cool unit to get in the starter box, so is possessed and a sorcerer.

Xeones
13-06-2012, 17:41
I just want there to be a Chaos SM Dreadnought in the starter box because Citadel couldn't be bothered to update that blasted abomination of twisted metal from... what year was that? 1996? :(

Seriously. 16(?) years is *too long* to go without updating what should have been an iconic Chaos unit. It was good of Forgeworld to fill the gap but not everyone can afford their premium Chaos Dreadnought prices! :eek:

Why's that? They should've been saving up their money during those sixteen years! :D
In all seriousness, I don't own, nor do I plan to own, either of these factions. My best hope is that there might be a few bits and pieces that my DIY chapter can manage to glean from the box, or perhaps a starter set rule book. They are including one again in this box right? In the end, I suspect I'll just grab anything that appeals to me from a bitz site rather than paying for the whole box.

Compel
13-06-2012, 18:36
Looking at the painting set Dark Angels, their 'dark angel' shoulderpad is attached separately, so they could potentially add in an extra sprue of generic shoulder pads to use.

Although I'm a bit confused about the tactical squad symbol on them... It's a
<=>

as opposed to a
^
||

Freakiq
13-06-2012, 18:39
Although I'm a bit confused about the tactical squad symbol on them... It's a
<=>

as opposed to a
^
||

That's because Dark Angels use a <=> arrow for their Tactical Squads.

Leggy
13-06-2012, 19:51
There 100% is a new plastic chaos dread. Don't forget, the box is intended for beginners, you seem to be overlooking how stupidly one sided aobr is, how do you think two guys who buy the set to learn the game with find that? One loves it and the other gets shafted.

The aim of the box is not, has never been, and never will be, to get the whole game in a box. Death wing terminators and captain are a pretty damn cool unit to get in the starter box, so is possessed and a sorcerer.


So are you saying there will or won't be a Chaos Dread in the box? This post is a little ambiguous.

If there's no chaos dread, the Marine army outpoints the chaos force by approximately a third (guesstimating the cultists will be roughly 5pts/model). That's pretty one-sided. Even with the Dread the forces won't be even, but the chaos side will get extra coolpoints for having the awesome big robot thing :D

Starchild
13-06-2012, 20:02
It's easy to forget that the scenario book is the balancing factor in the starter sets. The faction with the lower points value gets perks like being able to recycle broken or wiped out units. In this respect I expect that the Chaos Cultists will work like the Termagants in Battle for Macragge. Also, most of the scenarios use only some of the models, not all of them.

The Dude
14-06-2012, 00:21
So are you saying there will or won't be a Chaos Dread in the box? This post is a little ambiguous.

Kaelarr has previously stated that there is no Dread in the new starter box, but there is a new multi-part plastic kit coming.

I can't say I agree with his assessment that AoBR is "one sided" though, just a bit limited in how the Orks can handle the Dread. Would probably have been a bit better if at least one of the Nobs also had a Klaw in addition to the Boss.

MajorWesJanson
14-06-2012, 03:09
This is some twisted logic: It's great because it brings additional rules into the starter and it's also great because it doesn't weigh down the starter with additional rules... :angel:

I'm sure you could look at it that way (feels like watching a political commentator). To look at it on a positive note, a Dreadnought adds some of the vehicle rules to the starter, while being essentially a stepping stone unit. Sort of like teaching close combat- you start with the basics, you don't throw in the rules for Psychotroke grenades.

witchunter180
14-06-2012, 04:04
So where will we get SM dread meltas?

Find somebody with an AoBR dread. Comes with the mmelta, though hopefully it'll still fit the new dread.

Chranos
14-06-2012, 06:08
Looking at the painting set Dark Angels, their 'dark angel' shoulderpad is attached separately, so they could potentially add in an extra sprue of generic shoulder pads to use.

Although I'm a bit confused about the tactical squad symbol on them... It's a
<=>

as opposed to a
^
||


That's because Dark Angels use a <=> arrow for their Tactical Squads.

there are several accepted tactical markings (ref codex marines, insignum astartes)
These are just several of them.

shabbadoo
14-06-2012, 06:54
If there's no chaos dread, the Marine army outpoints the chaos force by approximately a third (guesstimating the cultists will be roughly 5pts/model). That's pretty one-sided. Even with the Dread the forces won't be even, but the chaos side will get extra coolpoints for having the awesome big robot thing :D
I wouldn't assume that Chaos Cultists will be the mewling lickspittle IG wannabees toting laspistols and knives that they were in Dawn of War 1. They could very well be a Chaos equivalent of Space Marine Scouts. Basically, Cultists who are either on the verge of being tapped to be made into Chaos Space Marines, or that are already undergoing the process of becoming Chaos Space Marines. As such they could be as much as 10-13 points each, and the discrepancy in the cost of the forces could be much less or even nearly the same. Having point balanced forces in a starter set is a good idea, as new players won't necessarily understand how the fine points of scenarios are a balancing factor. Hard points values and how units comparatively function compared to each other are much easier to understand, and understanding is what you want in a starter set.

Leggy
14-06-2012, 08:21
I based my guess on 2 factors:
1. The rumours that there's 20 of them suggest "weak horde" to me.
2. I really want them to be pathetic mewling fanatics throwing themselves at the enemy with little more than daggers and unholy fervour.

I admit factor 2 may be biased due to my own personal preference :D

Starchild
14-06-2012, 11:21
@shabadoo: I agree, it's about time for GW to have balanced starter set forces for once. With the Dreadnought included it might be a bit in the Chaos players' favour. It would be nice for the Imperial side to struggle for once (as an aggregate, not saying Dark Angel players haven't struggled. :p)

Rogue Star
14-06-2012, 11:35
Don't suppose anyone who has seen the Dark Angels Marines (likely a Tactical Squad) would be willing to confirm they are new models, or will it be the AoBR plastics with added DA iconography? Just curious after they added them to the 40K paint set...

Starchild
14-06-2012, 11:40
To my knowledge no one has seen the actual models (except Hastings perhaps?), only lists of what is to be included.

gunmnky
14-06-2012, 12:18
Either the contents of the DA box is wrong, it includes Belial, or a new codex is coming out soon.

Latro_
14-06-2012, 12:30
Will be interesting to see what legion they paint the chaos up as on the box. Its gotta contrast with the dark angels so i doubt it'll be black legion and the inclusion of cultist troops kinda leans towards Alpha legion or Word Bearers.

On the flip side you'd assume the fallen might come into it somehow, but how would they paint them up to separate em out, black and dark green don't exactly add a wow factor.

My bet is on word bearers or red corsairs. Guess could even speculate based on the paints you get in the new starter sets...

witchunter180
14-06-2012, 12:40
Don't suppose anyone who has seen the Dark Angels Marines (likely a Tactical Squad) would be willing to confirm they are new models, or will it be the AoBR plastics with added DA iconography? Just curious after they added them to the 40K paint set...

From what I understand, and some of the leaked photos I've seen, the Tact marines are just AoBR with DA icons.

gunmnky
14-06-2012, 14:24
Don't suppose anyone who has seen the Dark Angels Marines (likely a Tactical Squad) would be willing to confirm they are new models, or will it be the AoBR plastics with added DA iconography? Just curious after they added them to the 40K paint set...

Probably like this: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2310625a_99170199011_40KPaintSet_873x627.jpg

RandomThoughts
14-06-2012, 14:25
I'm sure you could look at it that way (feels like watching a political commentator). To look at it on a positive note, a Dreadnought adds some of the vehicle rules to the starter, while being essentially a stepping stone unit. Sort of like teaching close combat- you start with the basics, you don't throw in the rules for Psychotroke grenades.


Will be interesting to see what legion they paint the chaos up as on the box. Its gotta contrast with the dark angels so i doubt it'll be black legion and the inclusion of cultist troops kinda leans towards Alpha legion or Word Bearers.

On the flip side you'd assume the fallen might come into it somehow, but how would they paint them up to separate em out, black and dark green don't exactly add a wow factor.

My bet is on word bearers or red corsairs. Guess could even speculate based on the paints you get in the new starter sets...

Not a bad reasoning, but Assault on Black Reach had blue Marines next to green-black Orks, not exactly a strong contrast either. While I agree that green and black chaos colors are unlikely, I could easily see:
the dark red of World Eaters and bright red of Wordbearers, the sickly green-grey and clearly unique design of Death Legion, the vibrant purples and blacks of Emperor's Children, the shiny blue-gold of Thousend Sons, the darkish blues of Night Hunters (?), the metallic Iron Warriors.

I really can't remember what the Alpha legions look like, I could swear they have a green-black color scheme similar to the Salamanders, but that might be the result of deliberate misdirection on their part, sneaky bastards...

Starchild
14-06-2012, 14:49
@witchunter180: Wait, what? You've seen leaked photos? :eek:

edit: Alpha Legion are dark blue with silver trim and their Legion icon is green. :p

Nurgling Chieftain
14-06-2012, 14:50
Alpha legion colors seem to change with every sighting. ...Appropriate. :cool:

Latro_
14-06-2012, 15:35
Probably like this: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2310625a_99170199011_40KPaintSet_873x627.jpg

The snap'n'fit chaos marines will be interesting, i'm wondering if they'll be something like the old space crusade CSMs:
http://www.coolminiornot.com/pics/pics14/img4cf3e31fbc339.jpg

witchunter180
14-06-2012, 15:36
It was on a blog several days ago; I can't remember where it was and haven't been able to find it since. GW may have done their CaD moves on them. But it showed 2 tactical marines next to each other (kinda angled like they were part of a squad) and I could make out the molding of the DA Tact squad marking.


The snap'n'fit chaos marines will be interesting, i'm wondering if they'll be something like the old space crusade CSMs:
http://www.coolminiornot.com/pics/pics14/img4cf3e31fbc339.jpg

Those would be cool minis even today :D

Rick Blaine
14-06-2012, 16:14
The snap'n'fit chaos marines will be interesting, i'm wondering if they'll be something like the old space crusade CSMs:
http://www.coolminiornot.com/pics/pics14/img4cf3e31fbc339.jpg

Or they will just look like, ya know, the snap'n'fit Chaos Marines that GW currently makes.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440167a&prodId=prod1400021&rootCatGameStyle=

Latro_
14-06-2012, 16:24
Or they will just look like, ya know, the snap'n'fit Chaos Marines that GW currently makes.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440167a&prodId=prod1400021&rootCatGameStyle=

heh, shows how often i buy new CSM models! *looks at mass of models to paint*

Inquisitor Kallus
14-06-2012, 16:25
I wouldn't assume that Chaos Cultists will be the mewling lickspittle IG wannabees toting laspistols and knives that they were in Dawn of War 1. They could very well be a Chaos equivalent of Space Marine Scouts. Basically, Cultist who are either on the verge of being tapped to be made into Chaos Space Marines, or that are already undergoing the process of becoming Chaos Space Marines....

Please no....

Brother Dimetrius
14-06-2012, 17:11
leaked photos I've seen

Say what now? :D

Mr. Ultra
14-06-2012, 19:00
Agreed. Even in the unlikely event that Dark Angels get a jetbike unit in their next book, it would be a huge mistake on GW's part to make that unit available through the starter set. As a separate 3-man box set, it would sell huge amounts.

Yeah, you mean like the Ork Koptas...

Starchild
14-06-2012, 19:48
The simplest case for there not being DA jetbikes... is that DA don't need jetbikes. Bikes, Attack Bikes, and Land Speeders are fast enough. To add jetbikes to the DA army (other than Sammael's) would be terribly, awfully redundant and unnecessary.

Rick Blaine
14-06-2012, 19:53
The simplest case for there not being DA jetbikes... is that DA don't need jetbikes. Bikes, Attack Bikes, and Land Speeders are fast enough. To add jetbikes to the DA army (other than Sammael's) would be terribly, awfully redundant and unnecessary.

Armies get stuff they don't need all the time. GW will put new units in the next DA Codex, just like every other book.

Beppo1234
14-06-2012, 22:59
I can't say I agree with his assessment that AoBR is "one sided" though, just a bit limited in how the Orks can handle the Dread. Would probably have been a bit better if at least one of the Nobs also had a Klaw in addition to the Boss.


I've been wondering, how the DAs in the box are going to deal with psychic attacks from the sorcerer, given the make up of the box

The Dude
14-06-2012, 23:07
It was on a blog several days ago; I can't remember where it was and haven't been able to find it since. GW may have done their CaD moves on them. But it showed 2 tactical marines next to each other (kinda angled like they were part of a squad) and I could make out the molding of the DA Tact squad marking.

Those would be from the currently available paint set. Nothing to see here.


I've been wondering, how the DAs in the box are going to deal with psychic attacks from the sorcerer, given the make up of the box

That entirely depends on how Psychic powers are handled in 6th. Hell, even now the only thing the DA need to deal with the Sorcerer is Bolter and Flame :evilgrin:

Thoth62
14-06-2012, 23:08
Maybe the same way Chaos currently deals with psychic attacks...

Which is to say, they don't. Wouldn't that be poetic.

Starchild
14-06-2012, 23:24
@Rick Blaine: I'm not suggesting DA won't get anything new. Quite the contrary! They will most assuredly have things that other chapters won't get access to. I'm just saying jetbikes won't be part of that. They're just too similar to bikes to be worth the investment for GW, or for DA players.

GW will want to make as much money as possible from the existing bike kit. I do think they will redesign SM bikes eventually however. The original design is very old (14 years!). The Ravenwing bikes in the starter set might be the prototypes for brand new generic bikes, or so we may hope.

MajorWesJanson
15-06-2012, 04:10
I've been wondering, how the DAs in the box are going to deal with psychic attacks from the sorcerer, given the make up of the box

Given that models in the starter don't tend to have full capabilities, so as to make learning easier before dropping people in the deep end, I expect the Sorcerer to have only say 2 powers. Probably some attack power like a psychic shooting attack and a buff power.

As for the SM bikes, I personally like the current bikes, both the normal bikes and the scout bikes. I'd love to see the scout bikes get made a tad narrower and ported over to guard, as an option alongside roughriders.
The only changes I would make to bikes is add a few weapon options- Grenade laucher for normal bikes, plasma cannon and heavy flamer for attack bikes.

theJ
15-06-2012, 08:23
I've been wondering, how the DAs in the box are going to deal with psychic attacks from the sorcerer, given the make up of the box

Plasma Gun to the face sounds quite reasonable to me...

Danjester
15-06-2012, 08:37
Starter will contain 3x Ravenwing standard (i.e. non-jet) bikes, this has been stated several times. O/T: I'd be very surprised if the next DA codex didn't include jetbike veterans. It'd be a marquee kit and something fancy for the book, a la Thunderwolf Cavalry.

NixonAsADaemonPrince
15-06-2012, 09:32
Thanks to Stickmonkey for these rumours concerning the Dark Angels:

Stickmonkey:
The Dark Angel Tactical squad are not the Assault on Black Reach marines, these are new sculpts and there is Dark Angel iconography on them.

Stickmonkey:
One bit I'm really not certain on is this bit, but I've had some info passed on that the Dark Angel Tactical squad includes a Sergeant with Combi Weapon and Power Sword, 7 Bolter marines, 1 with Meltagun, and 1 with Plasma Cannon. I'd frankly be surprised if this is the load out though, and it wasn't the more generic Flamer and Missile Launcher.

MajorWesJanson
15-06-2012, 11:22
I could see a flamer and plasma cannon, but not melta and plasma cannon, especially if there is not a Chaos dread in the box.
Flamer and Missile launcher teaches about templates and cover, blasts and scatter, and instant death through the Krak missile vs enemy models. The plasma cannon could cover the blast and ID rules if the cultists are T3, but a melta gun would only teach melta rules, and only if a vehicle is in the box, as opposed to template and cover rules

Jetbikes I can see as a kit for Dark Angels, both as an iconic unit and to knock some wind out of third party sellers of jetbikes. A decent kit could also cover options for Sammael as well, letting them pull the finecast model out of the line. At the same time, given the size of Jetbikes, I see them only coming in 1 or 2 packs, and rules wise small units of 1-3 or so, as well as mount options for HQ units.

jtrowell
15-06-2012, 11:54
Is "Marines riding on Lions equipped with Jet boots" better ? :D

More seriously, isn't it strongly established in the (current) fluff that the whole Imperium only has one last working Jet Bike in use ?

I know that GW sometimes retcon such things, but as far as I know, the jetbikes idea is only based on wishlisting.

Sure, some model concepts might seems logicial and have a good chance of being released in a new book, making them fair target for discussions, but those are usually mentionned in the fluff, while here the fluff explicitely says us "no they don't exist anymore, stop asking for them".

What's next ? Asking in a rumour thread about the next Imperial Guard codex if Squats are a troop choice ? In fact comparing with the current thread, it would feel more like if half the post where about squats, with *no* rumour, not even a fake one, to base it on, just pure wishlisting.

Of course maybe I missed someone with a true rumour about jetbikes, and not just wishlisting reverberation ? If so please direct me to the appropriate source.

Elios Harg
15-06-2012, 12:08
More seriously, isn't it strongly established in the (current) fluff that the whole Imperium only has one last working Jet Bike in use ?



This is one of those constantly misquoted bits of fluff. Nothing says that Sammael has *the* last jetbike in the Imperium. It actually only states that "The Master of the Ravenwing however is privileged to ride into battle upon an example of this nigh extinct technology, a prized vehicle built to the highest standards, the like of which may never be seen again in the service of the Imperium" and "Perhaps the Masters of the 2nd Companies of the other (Un)*Forgiven Chapters hold such wonders in their arsenals too, the last known jet bikes to be ridden into battle by the warriors of the Imperium."

*fixed a typo that made it into the book, the original text says "Forgiven"

Godzooky
15-06-2012, 12:11
Of course maybe I missed someone with a true rumour about jetbikes, and not just wishlisting reverberation ? If so please direct me to the appropriate source.

Ask and you shall receive:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?343627-Official-Warseer-6th-Ed-Starter-Set-Thread-(Summary-in-first-post) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ)

Starchild
15-06-2012, 12:33
@jtrowell: DA jetbikes are indeed nothing more than wishlisting and until someone actually sees a sculpt, an image, or a model of such, it should not be discussed in this thread. In fact, it shouldn't be mentioned in this thread unless it can be proven that jetbikes will turn up in the starter box. :o

@Elios Harg: The WD in which Sammael is introduced says it's the last remaining jetbike.

htsmithium
15-06-2012, 13:01
it is only the last jetbike in existance untill someone finds a cache of them on some previesly unexplored world.

TheDungen
15-06-2012, 16:16
So we're accepting WD as fluff sources these days? Fine then warhammer vampires are demon hosts, i have a WD that says they are =P

I really hope the CSm are thousand sons or world eaters of something like that so they cant be combined with the dark angels so easily. I like being one of the few people playing fallen i don't want it to become mainstream. But if it turns out to be Word bearers or black legion or something easily combined with dark angels, then remember this: I played Fallen before it was cool!

(Also if enough people start playing fallen then they might make them a book and i really dont want that)

Kwi'Kwag
15-06-2012, 16:28
LOL, watching the quotes on the last remaining jetbike thing and see it get analyzed by the RAW mongers would be hilarious.

WD trumps codex, however, RAW would say that only Sammael has the last jetbike in the DA Army, not the rest of the Imperium - would be my guess but I aint no rulz lawyer.

cuda1179
15-06-2012, 17:25
I think that the best way to describe Imperial jetbikes in the fluff would be: They are extremely rare. Dark Angels and their successors have a handful of them. Sammael has the last one in the Dark Angels chapter.

Model wise, remember when the Grey Knights were being spotted about 18 months ago? Someone spotted Grey Knights Jetbike sculpts then. The "official" story was that they decided to scrap them and not include them in the GK codex. However, what if somene just got misinformed, or misunderstood. What if these jetbike sculpts were actually intended for a future Dark Angels release, or possibly transfered from the Grey Knights project to the Dark Angels.

Tyranus
15-06-2012, 17:28
Probably like this: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2310625a_99170199011_40KPaintSet_873x627.jpg

Has anyone bought the starter paint set to look to see if the models are molded dark Angel or maybe the picture was made with the metal shoulder pads....

Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2

Tyranus
15-06-2012, 17:33
Yeah, you mean like the Ork Koptas...

Haha my thoughts I posted earlier

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Elios Harg
15-06-2012, 17:41
Has anyone bought the starter paint set to look to see if the models are molded dark Angel or maybe the picture was made with the metal shoulder pads....

Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2

The paint set has sculpted Dark Angel shoulderpads that snapfit to the body which are basically AOBR style models otherwise with the exception of a sculpted on <=> style tactical marking.

Captain Collius
15-06-2012, 17:43
One there are no concrete rumors of jetbikes. Only Fervent hopes of some of us.

2. wouldn't everyone prefer a small jetbike unit for Ravenwing (i.e. Sammael's command squad.) to Thunderlion cavalry led by master Liono while toting his lionus pattern bolters and lion halbreds with lion pattern Plasma cannons .

FerociousBeast
15-06-2012, 18:34
Ahem, back to the starter set... The Chaos force will probably be Word Bearers, due to the presence of cultists and possessed. It would be cool if the Chosen were actually a unit of Fallen allied to the Word Bearers, but that's pretty unlikely. It would be ridiculous to have a 'counts-as' unit in the starter set.

Graystoak
15-06-2012, 19:31
I've been wondering, how the DAs in the box are going to deal with psychic attacks from the sorcerer, given the make up of the box

If they're pushing a new WH magic style Psychic system is it not likely that there would be a Psychic on both sides?
Seems a bit mean to only allow one player a Psychic phase...

Elios Harg
15-06-2012, 19:35
I don't think it's absolutely necessary for their to be a psyker on both sides. There have never traditionally been vehicles on both sides of the starter.

NixonAsADaemonPrince
15-06-2012, 19:51
If they're pushing a new WH magic style Psychic system is it not likely that there would be a Psychic on both sides?
Seems a bit mean to only allow one player a Psychic phase...

It's also the norm for the starter booklet to advise you to swap sides as well, so that you get experience with both forces.

Graystoak
15-06-2012, 19:56
You guys are probably right as there has been no talk of a librarian. I just think if there is a big change to the Psychic rules and they're gonna play a bigger part in 40k now it seems odd to have one side miss out on that whole phase of the game turn. Even if they do get to swap.

Souleater
15-06-2012, 20:38
We may be talking of different "box sets", but the 6th edition starter set (CSM, DA, mini rule book) will not be available next week. Nor will it be available next month. At least not the regular version.

So...a different version of the Starter Set will be available sooner? :eek: Credit Card to Action Stations!

Darnok
15-06-2012, 20:41
So...a different version of the Starter Set will be available sooner? :eek: Credit Card to Action Stations!

We have some rumours about a "special" starter set, but I do not know how much truth is in that one. Personally I would not bet money on it...

Deff Mekz
15-06-2012, 20:48
We have some rumours about a "special" starter set, but I do not know how much truth is in that one. Personally I would not bet money on it...

While I don't want to derail the thread with speculation, I personally believe the "Ltd Ed" starter set will simply be AOBR w/ the new rules. It would make sense if you think about it, it's only avaliable for a Limted Time so it doesn't effect the other starter set's sales when that comes out, and it helps them shift their stockpile of AOBR sets.

Starchild
15-06-2012, 21:35
@FerociousBeast: I think it's worth pointing out that cultists are available to every Legion, not just Alpha Legion and Wordbearers. Codex CSM 3.5 created too many stereotypes imho, just like Codex Craftworld Eldar did. If someone likes a particular Legion, that individual should not feel shoehorned into favouring one unit over another.

Even Codex Craftworld Eldar said that the specialist army formations were available to every Craftworld. In practice that suggestion was ignored in pursuit of so-called "fluffy" armies.

So no matter how the Chaos models in the starter set are portrayed by 'Eavy Metal, I hope new players won't feel pressured to paint them just like they are on the box cover.

FerociousBeast
15-06-2012, 22:54
Of course there are cultists in other legions, but cultists and possessed are much more a part of the Word Bearer theme than for the other legions. Even more than the Alpha Legion, which seems more about 'operatives' than cultists post-Horus Heresy series.

Obviously the possessed and cultists don't guarantee Word Bearers, but if I were going to bet, that's where I'd put my money.

Beppo1234
16-06-2012, 05:58
While I don't want to derail the thread with speculation, I personally believe the "Ltd Ed" starter set will simply be AOBR w/ the new rules. It would make sense if you think about it, it's only avaliable for a Limted Time so it doesn't effect the other starter set's sales when that comes out, and it helps them shift their stockpile of AOBR sets.

I could see this happening. I think it would make a lot of sense for GW to have a number of 'scenario' starter boxes with obviously SMs versus another faction, and keep them updated as the editions roll by. Macragge, AoBR and whatever this new box will be called, cover SMs, tyranids, chaos and orks. 2 or three more over time, and newbies and oldies alike will be able to buy starters with the factions they want.

I've always felt they should do codex releases in pairs, with a scenario box in tow: arch enemies essentially. BAvOrks, UMvTyranids, SWvTS... ...

KarlPedder
16-06-2012, 08:07
Ahem, back to the starter set... The Chaos force will probably be Word Bearers, due to the presence of cultists and possessed. It would be cool if the Chosen were actually a unit of Fallen allied to the Word Bearers, but that's pretty unlikely. It would be ridiculous to have a 'counts-as' unit in the starter set.

I fail to see how it matters what Legion it is painted on the box/used for the fluff in the scenario book beyond idle curiosity......

Ozybonza
16-06-2012, 08:26
On stickmonkey's rumour of a combi weapon on the tactical squad sergeant - that wouldn't be legal with the current DA codex, so I wonder if we'll get rules for all the models in the starter set, potentially with updated rules for the DW/RW also?

jimbo1701
16-06-2012, 08:36
Has anyone bought the starter paint set to look to see if the models are molded dark Angel or maybe the picture was made with the metal shoulder pads....

Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2

Just thought I'd add this in as I haven't seen any pics of it on t'internet. It's the sprue you get with the starter paint set. As had been said, it's similar to the AoBR marines except that the tactical symbol differs and the left shoulder comes seperate and with DA iconography molded on. Don't know if this holds any clues as to the nature of the models in the starter set. (i.e. will the left shoulder be seperate to allow both easy conversion to non-DA marines and similtaneously allow a specfic chapter to be included in the set)


143100

RedemptionNL
16-06-2012, 09:07
I fail to see how it matters what Legion it is painted on the box/used for the fluff in the scenario book beyond idle curiosity......

If the legion/chapter markins are molded onto the models then I guess it could matter.

mrtn
16-06-2012, 09:28
It seems that a lot of people are assuming that there will be a scenario booklet. I don't think there is for the WFB starter set and I wouldn't count on it.

nedius
16-06-2012, 09:34
This is probably nothing, but GW Cambridge are running a 'Time of Assention' special event leading up to the end of the month, announced on their facebook page. I've not been able to get in to find out more. Will post more when I know more.

radical ed
16-06-2012, 10:16
On stickmonkey's rumour of a combi weapon on the tactical squad sergeant - that wouldn't be legal with the current DA codex, so I wonder if we'll get rules for all the models in the starter set, potentially with updated rules for the DW/RW also?

they might dump the da codex and FAQ belial and sammi into the vanilla codex

*runs away and hides

NixonAsADaemonPrince
16-06-2012, 10:25
This is probably nothing, but GW Cambridge are running a 'Time of Assention' special event leading up to the end of the month, announced on their facebook page. I've not been able to get in to find out more. Will post more when I know more.

That'll just be for the release of 6th ed I'd warrant :) (Assuming you mean end of June)

KarlPedder
16-06-2012, 11:09
If the legion/chapter markins are molded onto the models then I guess it could matter.

Not considering that in all likelyhood the Chaos models in the starter wont have molded legion specific markings for much the same reasons that the Space Marines in the AOBR starter don't have molded Ultramarines markings.

Rick Blaine
16-06-2012, 11:11
Not considering that in all likelyhood the Chaos models in the starter wont have molded legion specific markings for much the same reasons that the Space Marines in the AOBR starter don't have molded Ultramarines markings.

That's what I kept telling people... until the Paint Set happened.

KarlPedder
16-06-2012, 11:24
That's what I kept telling people... until the Paint Set happened.

Yeah but I expect that the Dark Angels in the starter set will actually have molded markings I just don't think the Chaos models will it's a minor distinction because DA do have succussor chapters with different chapter icons too but I just think that they will be more comfortable with it than for Chaos models that need to represent all the Chaos Legions.

As I've tried to articulate in the Chaos thread, I think the HH novel series in paticular has resulted in a huge amount of expansion of the specific legions in the fluff which has resulted in what are IMO unrealistic expectations concerning the representation of specific Legions in both rules and models.

xavos
16-06-2012, 11:59
I don't think I need more Space Marine infantry - maybe I'll convert them to chaos...

Jonahmaul
16-06-2012, 15:48
This is probably nothing, but GW Cambridge are running a 'Time of Assention' special event leading up to the end of the month, announced on their facebook page. I've not been able to get in to find out more. Will post more when I know more.

I saw this as well. And something about '300 of us' being chosen which I couldn't figure out. Are they getting 300 starter sets that maybe go on pre-order soon? Need to start actually going in to the store more!

FerociousBeast
16-06-2012, 16:25
I fail to see how it matters what Legion it is painted on the box/used for the fluff in the scenario book beyond idle curiosity......

Idle curiosity is the reason this forum exists.

angelismortis
17-06-2012, 00:29
Originally Posted by nedius
This is probably nothing, but GW Cambridge are running a 'Time of Assention' special event leading up to the end of the month, announced on their facebook page. I've not been able to get in to find out more. Will post more when I know more.


The Fairfax, Virginia store had something similar posted in the store today - I don't remember exactly what they were calling the event - but the games are featuring skimmers and fliers.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

shabbadoo
17-06-2012, 01:20
they might dump the da codex and FAQ belial and sammi into the vanilla codex

*runs away and hides
Nah. Rumors say that Codex: Chaos Space Marines + models hits after the 6E Big Rulebook, but before the 6E Starter Set comes out, and Codex: Dark Angels + models hits just after the 6E Starter Set comes out. If this is so, that is a very good release plan, as it all dove-tails together nicely. GW totally blew the 5E release, the first codex (Space Marines of course) coming out in a full four months after the 5E Big Rulebook in October, which was even after the 5E Starter Set. It didn't help that the next few 5E codexes they released were for Imperial forces either. There really needs to be a better mix, and I think this time around we are going to see that, especially considering what rumors are out there and what codexes are now the oldest. It is looking like the first seven 6E codexes will be Chaos Space Marines, Dark Angels, and then (in no particular order) Tau, Black Templars, Eldar, Sisters of Battle/Witch Hunters, and Orks. They will probably sneak Codex: Space Marines 6E in there somewhere too (gotta support the flagship iconic codex every edition after all :p). That would make for a very nice variety of releases over 3 years. :cool:

BramGaunt
17-06-2012, 09:22
I saw this as well. And something about '300 of us' being chosen which I couldn't figure out. Are they getting 300 starter sets that maybe go on pre-order soon? Need to start actually going in to the store more!

Each store has recieved 300 small black invitation cards. They do nothing special.

Isoroku
17-06-2012, 15:20
http://natfka.blogspot.com.es/2012/06/leak-alert-6th-edition-rulebook-cover.html

Maybe & ED Cover

theJ
17-06-2012, 15:28
@Isoroku:
Colour me... somewhat sceptical. GW is GW, but don't BRBs usually get faction neutral covers?

I am well known for being wrong, but it seems like a weird move to make, especially since GW seem to otherwise favour non-marines more now than they did at the start of 5th...

Then again, with marines vs marines in the starter... :(

MajorWesJanson
17-06-2012, 15:36
http://natfka.blogspot.com.es/2012/06/leak-alert-6th-edition-rulebook-cover.html

Maybe & ED Cover

If it said Dark Angels on there, I would totally buy it as being the upcoming DA dex. But not as an Edition cover. Not without a hammer on it.

Rick Blaine
17-06-2012, 15:51
If it said Dark Angels on there, I would totally buy it as being the upcoming DA dex. But not as an Edition cover. Not without a hammer on it.

But only 5th actually had the hammer on both books. 3rd had the poster boy Chapter of the edition, as did 4th on the mini book.

IcedAnimals
17-06-2012, 15:59
If it said Dark Angels on there, I would totally buy it as being the upcoming DA dex. But not as an Edition cover. Not without a hammer on it.

Who knows maybe that is one of the rumored "hard cover" books, or even one of the "special editions". A limited run collectors edition of the 6th edition book.

Sildani
17-06-2012, 16:13
Actually, 3rd had Black Templars, 4th had the grey-blue warhammer with the skull, over a black background; and then the current warhammer and shield over the red background.

So if DA's are on 6th's cover, I find it plausible.

Jonahmaul
17-06-2012, 16:51
Wasn't second Blood Angels and Orks as well?

Aryllon
17-06-2012, 16:58
It looks more like Black Templars than DA... the dude in the foreground has the DA tactical symbol, but main guy seems totally Black Templar. But it's quite a small pic so hard to see details / colours correctly...

Infern0
17-06-2012, 17:15
Definately DA on the cover...

I would be really surprised if it was the rulebook cover, not a DA codex one..
since it has no 2 armies fighting each other painted in 2 similar colors and and a big hammer in the center

It is also quite hard to tell, but the book looks thin

Kendo
17-06-2012, 17:17
But it doesn't say 'codex' anywhere. I'm thinking it's a rule book.

Infern0
17-06-2012, 17:19
But it doesn't say 'codex' anywhere. I'm thinking it's a rule book.
Yeah, but it might be written in the "light reflected" spot

EDIT: I see "there is only war" at the bottom though..

Fen
17-06-2012, 17:57
1st- CFs firing at something unseen + an ork-head-mace
2nd- BA firing at some orks
3rd- BT posing while some of them fire at something unseen
4th/5th- hammers

So this one would fit with the "marines firing at something not on the cover" old trend

Grand_Marshal_Kazan
17-06-2012, 18:19
http://natfka.blogspot.com.es/2012/06/leak-alert-6th-edition-rulebook-cover.html

Maybe & ED Cover

If I remember there was a thread earlier on showing this image as a graphic from the website.

Grimbad
17-06-2012, 18:20
1st- CFs firing at something unseen + an ork-head-mace
2nd- BA firing at some orks
3rd- BT posing while some of them fire at something unseen
4th/5th- hammers

So this one would fit with the "marines firing at something not on the cover" old trend

The second edition rulebook and box art were different, though. The rulebook had the same cover as Rogue Trader, the box and Codex Imperialis had the Blood Angels.

Jonahmaul
17-06-2012, 19:10
The cover art was on the Codex Imperialis though. The rulebook had the Crimson Fist picture that was made into the 25th anniversary model and the wargear book had Blood Angels on an eye watering yellow background!

ThePope
17-06-2012, 20:10
Well to me they are 100% da in that cover at least. If you zoom i you can clearly make out the wings and sword on the main marines belt in let alone the red tac squad markings on the standard marines.

I also think this may be the core rulebook as per the previous books bar 4th/5th it has an "epic marine pose" on it.

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Industrial Propaganda
17-06-2012, 21:16
Some of us will get the Rulebook at the very end of June. The rest of us will get it in July. The starter box comes in September.
There will be also a psyker spells book for 15euro ?

Akkaryn
17-06-2012, 21:34
The front cover looks a lot like the image made up from the spines of the last few white dwarfs (Don't have them myself, but someone at the local GW has been showing everyone) I might be wrong as it was about 3 weeks ago I saw it

Cthell
17-06-2012, 21:47
The front cover looks a lot like the image made up from the spines of the last few white dwarfs (Don't have them myself, but someone at the local GW has been showing everyone) I might be wrong as it was about 3 weeks ago I saw it

It's definitely not the same image (doesn't even look like the same artist - different art styles); the WD spine image has a single marine in a static pose against a dark background, the Cover image has a dynamically posed marine surrounded by other marines (both fore- and background)

kendaop
18-06-2012, 02:59
It definitely looks like the rulebook cover for several reasons.

1) The texture of the cover, as indicated by the lighting heavily suggests it's hardback. Also, near the spine, you see the indention from the binding. You don't see that with softback covers. I've never seen a hardback codex, so it's probably the rulebook.
2) Dark Angels on the cover (Notice the red guns and the horizontal tac squad symbols. Also keep in mind that DA chaplains wear black armor.) Makes since since they are the marine army in the starter set.
3) The "there is only war." bit of text. This suggests a rulebook instead of a codex.
4) Notice the size of the book. It's resting on someone's black jacket. Unless that jacket was made for a midget, I'd say the book is too large to be a codex.

Rated_lexxx
18-06-2012, 04:23
It definitely looks like the rulebook cover for several reasons.

1) The texture of the cover, as indicated by the lighting heavily suggests it's hardback. Also, near the spine, you see the indention from the binding. You don't see that with softback covers. I've never seen a hardback codex, so it's probably the rulebook.
2) Dark Angels on the cover (Notice the red guns and the horizontal tac squad symbols. Also keep in mind that DA chaplains wear black armor.) Makes since since they are the marine army in the starter set.
3) The "there is only war." bit of text. This suggests a rulebook instead of a codex.
4) Notice the size of the book. It's resting on someone's black jacket. Unless that jacket was made for a midget, I'd say the book is too large to be a codex.

Are you saying that midgets dont wear jackets !? Lol. I am truly interested in where the photo comes from. It's pretty obvious that it's not a leak purposely put out by GW

Starchild
18-06-2012, 04:37
@Aryllon: This confused me too because the DA Master with his white tabard and red cloak looks more like one of the Black Templar Sword Brethren. But the Tactical marine in the foreground is clearly a Dark Angel.

The full text reads "In the grim darkness of the far future there is only war." :skull: That's been the 40k anthem going all the way back to the 1987 Rogue Trader tome.

Trustey
18-06-2012, 06:27
So the starter will not come with two armies to play with?
I was considering getting it for this reason, a standalone game in a box. Paint and play casually with the simplified rules book. I have too much going on for full time fantasy and 40k armies.

PostinDirty
18-06-2012, 07:02
So the starter will not come with two armies to play with?
I was considering getting it for this reason, a standalone game in a box. Paint and play casually with the simplified rules book. I have too much going on for full time fantasy and 40k armies.

how'd you come to that conclusion? everything still points to the starter having chaos and DAs dunnit?

KarlPedder
18-06-2012, 08:40
I have absolutely no problems with accepting this as the 6th ed rulebook cover. I don't think the lack of a stylized Warhammer icon is that big of an issue it's not like we haven't had the Space Marines in the starter on the BRB cover before.

Aryllon
18-06-2012, 19:06
@Aryllon: This confused me too because the DA Master with his white tabard and red cloak looks more like one of the Black Templar Sword Brethren. But the Tactical marine in the foreground is clearly a Dark Angel.

The full text reads "In the grim darkness of the far future there is only war." :skull: That's been the 40k anthem going all the way back to the 1987 Rogue Trader tome.

Yeah I noticed that text, but it seems too generic. If I was going to photoshop something I would definitely include that! And with the other photoshop version seeming equally well done (not to mention this not being thick enough for the full version of the new rulebook) I'm going to put my money where my mouth is and say this isn't the 6th.

Would be unsurprising if they started doing hardback codices just like WHFB, and would differentiate the product a bit in order that digital copies don't fully represent the 'quality' version.

Dorian Weaver
18-06-2012, 20:56
"Don't suppose anyone who has seen the Dark Angels Marines (likely a Tactical Squad) would be willing to confirm they are new models, or will it be the AoBR plastics with added DA iconography? Just curious after they added them to the 40K paint set..."

If you're talking about the new paint set marines, I have bought a set to both get the marines and sample the new paints, and it is essentially a re-cut AoBR marine with a glue-on DA shoulder. It could, eventually, be used to produce other chapter specific shoulders in finecast.

They look a little less wonky, imho.

Ozybonza
18-06-2012, 21:46
If you're talking about the new paint set marines, I have bought a set to both get the marines and sample the new paints, and it is essentially a re-cut AoBR marine with a glue-on DA shoulder. It could, eventually, be used to produce other chapter specific shoulders in finecast.

Never thought of that but it would be a good idea.

The Dude
19-06-2012, 00:41
Never thought of that but it would be a good idea.

Not really, as the other shoulder is moulded on the body and shows the Dark Angel specific Tactical marking.

Starchild
19-06-2012, 01:59
There's going to be lots of Dark Angels armies started all over the world. My days of being the lone underdog will soon be at an end. Farewell to uniqueness-- say hello to the bandwagon. :o

MajorWesJanson
19-06-2012, 02:05
Finally, all the undeserved Ultramarine hatred will be shifted somewhere more deserved: the secretive, untrustworthy, fratricidal Dark Angels. :D

Jonahmaul
19-06-2012, 08:08
"Don't suppose anyone who has seen the Dark Angels Marines (likely a Tactical Squad) would be willing to confirm they are new models, or will it be the AoBR plastics with added DA iconography? Just curious after they added them to the 40K paint set..."

If you're talking about the new paint set marines, I have bought a set to both get the marines and sample the new paints, and it is essentially a re-cut AoBR marine with a glue-on DA shoulder. It could, eventually, be used to produce other chapter specific shoulders in finecast.

They look a little less wonky, imho.

The Dark Angel tactical marking aside I really wish GW or FW would do a big push on chapter specific shoulder pads, I really want some for my Brazen Claws. Toying with the idea of casting my own at the moment.

Darnok
19-06-2012, 09:19
There's going to be lots of Dark Angels armies started all over the world. My days of being the lone underdog will soon be at an end. Farewell to uniqueness-- say hello to the bandwagon. :o

The other way to see it: "yay, my favourite army is getting the love it deserved in the first place - and we will strike in full force again!". Plus all the funky project logs to look forward to. Try to see the positive, and enjoy your time in the spotlight! :)

jamesterjlrb
19-06-2012, 10:01
Agreed, your army will be one of the ones all the little kids look up to. Instead of hearing, "that's cool, but i play ultramarines" you'll hear "That's awesome, i wish my army was as good as yours" This is presuming you've put time and effort into your army though. And if not, you have little to complain about anyway.

Sureshot05
19-06-2012, 10:42
I wonder whether the choice of Dark Angels was a clever move by GW to limit resale, as well as come up with some truly unique well posed mini's. After Space hulk we've seen what they can do with individual plastic termies etc and Dark Angels lend themselves very well to such dramatic poses (flowing robes, hoods etc). However, whereas the Black reach set could be sold on neatly to any marine player, Dark Angels are far more specific. I also find it fascinating that we are no closer to knowing which CSM's are in the set.

Top candidates are Fallen, Word Bearers, Black Legion and Alpha Legion. If Possessed are in, then Word Bearers are a clear top choice. But if chosen, then fallen and alpha are both very likely. CSM Dread if included, would rule out Fallen. Either way, when the rule book hits, we'll probably know due to the photo's contained within...

Jonahmaul
19-06-2012, 11:11
I very much doubt it would be fallen. Seems like too much of a niche army to include in a start box set. I think it's most likely to be one of the 'main' chapters but I think it's far more likely that they'll be a bit more generic with painting guides showing several legions. I could be wrong in this considering that they've gone specific with the Dark Angels though.

Starchild
19-06-2012, 11:21
@Darnok: I'll do my best. I think Dark Angels won't be as popular overall as generic codex chapters. Not everyone likes to attach & paint fiddly little details and bitz. As for me, I'm a detail junkie. :D

@jamesterjlrt: You assume correctly! I have devoted countless hours to my "dark, gothic, and sinister" Space Marine army. Project log coming soon! ;)

@Sureshot05: I always thought the Chaos starter set models would be completely generic, but extremely detailed Legion-specific models would be fantastic. If the Chaos models are nice enough I may be tempted to keep them. :p

jamesterjlrb
19-06-2012, 11:24
I wonder whether the choice of Dark Angels was a clever move by GW to limit resale, as well as come up with some truly unique well posed mini's. After Space hulk we've seen what they can do with individual plastic termies etc and Dark Angels lend themselves very well to such dramatic poses (flowing robes, hoods etc). However, whereas the Black reach set could be sold on neatly to any marine player, Dark Angels are far more specific.


I think that would be a most idiotic move by GW, and i believe it is such a move we are about to see. The reason skull pass/IOB/black reach sold so well was that it was the best way for any skaven/highelf/O&G/dwarf/ork/SM of almost any flavour, player, experienced or not, to start their armies. By limiting it to DA, unless they expect DA to become a popular army in their own right, they cut down on the number of potential customers.

TheDungen
19-06-2012, 11:25
The fallen would be a major lore change they're suposed to be very few so fielding an entire army of them would be strange. Even in my fallen army only a couple of characters are true fallen. But hey they have changed lore before bit I'm guessing maybe one fallen character and the rest from some traitor legion.

Gingerwerewolf
19-06-2012, 11:32
The Dark Angel tactical marking aside I really wish GW or FW would do a big push on chapter specific shoulder pads, I really want some for my Brazen Claws. Toying with the idea of casting my own at the moment.

Oh Hell yes, Some Emperors Scythes would be a godsend!

Im guessing that Ill probably start yet another Marine force when the box comes out.... :)

Johnnya10
19-06-2012, 13:42
Can't imagine the Chaos lot would be Fallen. But I'd prefer almost anything to Black Legion. Yes, they're useful because they can take any cult, they have Abaddon, etc, but I just find them so dull. "We wear black and are all spiky - we're obviously bad guys, right?" Word Bearers would be nice - and a good contrast to Dark Angels. Both very Zealot-like. Is it too much to dream that they'll release an Erebus miniature at some point too? #wishlisting

KarlPedder
19-06-2012, 14:25
I think that would be a most idiotic move by GW, and i believe it is such a move we are about to see. The reason skull pass/IOB/black reach sold so well was that it was the best way for any skaven/highelf/O&G/dwarf/ork/SM of almost any flavour, player, experienced or not, to start their armies. By limiting it to DA, unless they expect DA to become a popular army in their own right, they cut down on the number of potential customers.

I think you answer your own question GW fully expect DA to become a popular army in their own right and why wouldn't they? Dark Angels current level of "popularity" is largely due to them having an outdated and rather weak codex that even with the Ravenwing/Deathwing isn't quite as "unique" as the other non-codex chapters especially since more of an effort to distinguish the different SM codexes began with those updated in 5th and prior to this there seemed to be a pattern of giving everything that actually did make DA unique to every other chapter. Indeed more than any other chapter with it's own Codex you get folks saying "DA should just be rolled into Codex: SM because there is so little that distinguishes them".

Making DA the posterboys of 6th ed IMO was a smart move, put them in the starter give them a codex update with some nice new Chapter specific units/models and more competative/unique rules you make the "least unique" SM army just as unique as any of the others and the "least popular" SM army the most common amongst new players for much the same reasons that vanilla marines have been in the past.

Jonahmaul
19-06-2012, 15:09
Not really, as the other shoulder is moulded on the body and shows the Dark Angel specific Tactical marking.

Thinking about this although the sideways tactical marking is common for DA's isn't it also just a more generic tactical marking that can be used by any marines? I haven't got my codex so can't check this at the moment though so if I'm wrong I apologise!

dean
19-06-2012, 15:21
Yes... One of the lines in the codex (WD117(?) & the Insignum Astartes book) is that it is recomended for all chapters to change them up every decade or so, GW just never has and that blurb is in there to justify "Rule of Cool" paintjobs.

Starchild
19-06-2012, 15:54
@GenerationTerrorist: The DAs in the beginner's paint set killed my hopes for fully gothed out starter set models with robes, censers, parchment, etc. Maybe I'm wrong and the paint set models were just a quick push to production but I wouldn't put it past GW to go the dull route of tacking DA markings onto the AoBR tactical squad. :(

theJ
19-06-2012, 19:14
I think that would be a most idiotic move by GW, and i believe it is such a move we are about to see. The reason skull pass/IOB/black reach sold so well was that it was the best way for any skaven/highelf/O&G/dwarf/ork/SM of almost any flavour, player, experienced or not, to start their armies. By limiting it to DA, unless they expect DA to become a popular army in their own right, they cut down on the number of potential customers.

I used to think like that too... then I sat down and actually thought about it, and I realised the Dark Angels are actually a really really good compromise.
To wit; GW(presumably) has two seemingly mutually exclusive goals for their starter armies:
*To sell tons of goods, which is easiest to do by capitalising on the popularity of Space Marines.
*To get players to start new armies, preferably armies other than what is currently common, I.E. mechanised MEQ.

Dark Angels are Space Marines, and as such work well with the first goal - I.E. they will sell. Lots.
For the second goal, you have to keep in mind what makes the Dark Angels special - the wings. I expect the majority(60-70%?) of new players to expand their force into a Deathwing force, I.E. TEQ, with a smattering of walkers and superheavy tanks. Most others will likely go for a Ravenwing force, I.E. Bikers, a couple speeders, and a tank or two. I'd expect only precious few to actually create a traditional MEQ force...
Note that neither of the wings are the mechanised MEQ forces that are far too common at the moment. They are still marines, but they are not MEQ, nor are they using large numbers of cheap, light transports and thus they should help vary up the meta game(in theory, anyway).

For much the same reasons, I expect the Chaos force to focus less on "marine" and more on "chaos". We'll likely have cultists, possessed, possibly daemons, and a nifty daemon engine. Unlike the Dark Angels, they are very likely to be expanded into a "proper" MEQ army, but at least they don't start out as one.

Meaning, in conclusion, that the starter will actually be (mostly) TEQ vs GEQ, not MEQ vs MEQ.

I have been wrong(a lot) in the past, but if the above is accurate, then I dare say GW has thought this through a lot more than any of you lot :p

misterboff
19-06-2012, 19:45
@GenerationTerrorist: The DAs in the beginner's paint set killed my hopes for fully gothed out starter set models with robes, censers, parchment, etc. Maybe I'm wrong and the paint set models were just a quick push to production but I wouldn't put it past GW to go the dull route of tacking DA markings onto the AoBR tactical squad. :(

I'm pretty sure that the Marines in the old paint set had moulded Ultramarines icons, but were otherwise just AoBR Marines.

Personally, I think that the starter set will either contain generic Marines, or optional bits to make them DA (such as extra shoulder pads, heads etc). They could still be snap-fit/simple models, but a few extra small pieces won't take up much sprue space. They could even follow it up with a range of Chapter specific upgrade sprues to customise the starter set models, in a vaguely similar way to them releasing the 5-Elf sprue separately after IoB.

Regardless, I'm splitting two sets with a DA player and keeping the Chaos stuff, so it's win/win for us. :)

Souleater
19-06-2012, 20:36
@GenerationTerrorist: The DAs in the beginner's paint set killed my hopes for fully gothed out starter set models with robes, censers, parchment, etc. Maybe I'm wrong and the paint set models were just a quick push to production but I wouldn't put it past GW to go the dull route of tacking DA markings onto the AoBR tactical squad. :(

If they did have a little ornate detailing then new players could use them as Veterans in more traditional forces. IIRC isn't the wearing of robes linked to rank for Dark Angels? In other words they might be DA without being blinged out.

I'm hoping that the models in the starter set are on part with those from Space Hulk. Even if they are not I would be very surprised if DA don't get an upgrade kit similar to the ones SW and BA got.

Jonahmaul
19-06-2012, 20:44
If they did have a little ornate detailing then new players could use them as Veterans in more traditional forces. IIRC isn't the wearing of robes linked to rank for Dark Angels? In other words they might be DA without being blinged out.

I'm hoping that the models in the starter set are on part with those from Space Hulk. Even if they are not I would be very surprised if DA don't get an upgrade kit similar to the ones SW and BA got.


I'd be surprised if they were on a par with Space Hulk miniatures although GW clearly have the technology so there's no reason for them not to be. I reckon you've hit the nail on the head with the upgrade kit to be combined with regular marines though. Means GW could sell the upgrade sprue seperately as well for people who already have marines lying around (and there are lots of us!). There'll probably be some specific Dark Angels miniatures in the box but if they all have DA iconography on them that's going to put off anybody who doesn't want a DA army which GW are unlikely to do (plenty of people buy the starter boxes to expand their armies after all).

ForgottenLore
19-06-2012, 21:04
Even if they are not I would be very surprised if DA don't get an upgrade kit similar to the ones SW and BA got.
Isn't there already a DA upgrade sprue?

Yep, here it is

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1400016&prodId=prod900140a

Souleater
19-06-2012, 22:19
Indeed but I'm thinking more along the lines of the box set the two chapters I mentioned got in the last couple of years.

Fluxeor
19-06-2012, 22:49
They do that sprue in a boxed set (DA Veterans set). for an extra 8 you get 5 bases and a tac squad upgrade sprue. .. There's your BA/SW equivalent ;)

Cloud Runner
19-06-2012, 22:58
Personally I'd like a new DA upgrade set with legs n torsos separate. And, it'd be much better to have separate lower robes for the running legs to aid the feeling of motion etc. If the rumoured chaplain squad makes it in, then surely this is the ideal combo kit the others have:

SW - grey hunter & blood claw combi (and bits for most other units)
BA - death co and generic marines
GK - anything in power armour in one box

Hopefully a dedicated DW box too, that would make some super nice termies.

Starchild
20-06-2012, 01:40
Well, this is wishlisting territory but admittedly the DA chapter upgrade sprues leave a lot to be desired. The bulk of the shoulder pads are useless to me. Why didn't they sculpt the whole winged sword on some of them instead of the single blade? Then there's the Terminator bits... again, too little and why do we need more assault cannons? It just seems half-baked and I wish Jes G. had more of a hand in it.

The Ravenwing/vehicle sprue is quite nice though, except for the Typhoon launcher which is now redundant due to the recut Land Speeder.

Anyway, I'm actually hoping GW has gothed out the starter set DAs... because it will mean I can get lots of them for cheap! :evilgrin:

Scaryscarymushroom
20-06-2012, 03:11
Tallarn, from Astronomican, on 30 September 2011:

There will be two versions of the starter set for the first time. Rather than the box containing two armies each will have one, so Dark Angels versions and a Traitor version. Each will have a selection of figures, but the extra space in the box will focus on scenery. So there will be a small Dark Angels force with a Dark Angels specific piece of scenery in one box, and a small Traitor force and Chaos specific scenery in the other.

Is it just me, or does this eliminate the point of having a starter set at all? :eyebrows: I always liked the starter sets specifically because they included two different armies. If they're going to do two different sets, I'd much rather have a DA & CSM box so that the game can be played, and a terrain "starter set expansion" that maybe comes with a scenery-related scenario, a la Battle for Macragge. Think of it as an expansion to the base game.

Starchild
20-06-2012, 04:15
Maybe the limited edition starter box will contain both armies and both sets of terrain? :confused:

NixonAsADaemonPrince
20-06-2012, 09:28
I don't know the track record of Tallarn, and that rumour is pretty old, so remember to take with salt.

Starchild
20-06-2012, 11:31
True that... I should have checked the date first! :o

Malakai
20-06-2012, 11:50
Well, this is wishlisting territory but admittedly the DA chapter upgrade sprues leave a lot to be desired. The bulk of the shoulder pads are useless to me. Why didn't they sculpt the whole winged sword on some of them instead of the single blade? Then there's the Terminator bits... again, too little and why do we need more assault cannons? It just seems half-baked and I wish Jes G. had more of a hand in it.

The Ravenwing/vehicle sprue is quite nice though, except for the Typhoon launcher which is now redundant due to the recut Land Speeder.

Anyway, I'm actually hoping GW has gothed out the starter set DAs... because it will mean I can get lots of them for cheap! :evilgrin:

Ditto. I hated the last Dark Angel sprue. Compare it to the Black Templars. They got it right when they did that.

Konovalev
20-06-2012, 15:25
Is it just me, or does this eliminate the point of having a starter set at all? :eyebrows: I always liked the starter sets specifically because they included two different armies. If they're going to do two different sets, I'd much rather have a DA & CSM box so that the game can be played, and a terrain "starter set expansion" that maybe comes with a scenery-related scenario, a la Battle for Macragge. Think of it as an expansion to the base game.

I guess the reasoning is: You buy a starter, your buddy buys a starter, and when you want to play you each bring your half of the starter.

Stores will obviously have both starters available, so no longer having 2-in-1 doesnt effect them.
And existing players will have their own army to bring if their new player friend picks up a starter.
So really the only ones affected by this are the "freeloader" friends who don't buy a starter and expect to play with what someone else bought.

Graystoak
20-06-2012, 15:32
Plus with the ever rising prices of GW products, people might actually be able to afford 'half' a starter set, rather than having to shell out for the whole thing!

Konovalev
20-06-2012, 15:35
Plus with the ever rising prices of GW products, people might actually be able to afford 'half' a starter set, rather than having to shell out for the whole thing!

Yeah, thats why i never bought a black reach starter. All I wanted was the orks from it. I'm not paying full price when i only want half the contents.

jceresa2
20-06-2012, 16:00
Plus with the ever rising prices of GW products, people might actually be able to afford 'half' a starter set, rather than having to shell out for the whole thing!
Assuming each half is not the price of a full!

Scammel
20-06-2012, 16:31
Seems doubly inane seeing as it would make the respective battleforces somewhat redundant.

Starchild
20-06-2012, 16:38
Well, to be fair the Dark Angels battleforce was a splash release... The Ravenwing battleforce was not but until the Dark Angels codex comes out there will be no other way to get bona fide Deathwing Terminators. :skull:

Son of Morkai
20-06-2012, 16:53
Seems doubly inane seeing as it would make the respective battleforces somewhat redundant.

Which to me is a good thing. Replace every battleforce with one of these! I would rather see a bunch of well-sculpted unique monopose models than the minimal savings on normal models that battleforces offer. If every battleforce is basically replaced with a starter (with terrain and rulebook and dice and everything else), we might even see more variation in armies because new players are not having Space Marines "forced" on them from the starter. And if the models are well done - along the same lines as the legendary Space Hulk Blood Angels - veterans will buy the starters for the shiny new awesome Commander Badass minis. The only way to make it better would be to include a mini-dex, but a simple pamplet giving the rules just for the contents of the box would work too.

Konovalev
20-06-2012, 17:51
Which to me is a good thing. Replace every battleforce with one of these! I would rather see a bunch of well-sculpted unique monopose models than the minimal savings on normal models that battleforces offer. If every battleforce is basically replaced with a starter (with terrain and rulebook and dice and everything else), we might even see more variation in armies because new players are not having Space Marines "forced" on them from the starter. And if the models are well done - along the same lines as the legendary Space Hulk Blood Angels - veterans will buy the starters for the shiny new awesome Commander Badass minis. The only way to make it better would be to include a mini-dex, but a simple pamplet giving the rules just for the contents of the box would work too.

I like this idea. GW, fund it.

MajorWesJanson
20-06-2012, 18:55
Which to me is a good thing. Replace every battleforce with one of these! I would rather see a bunch of well-sculpted unique monopose models than the minimal savings on normal models that battleforces offer. If every battleforce is basically replaced with a starter (with terrain and rulebook and dice and everything else), we might even see more variation in armies because new players are not having Space Marines "forced" on them from the starter. And if the models are well done - along the same lines as the legendary Space Hulk Blood Angels - veterans will buy the starters for the shiny new awesome Commander Badass minis. The only way to make it better would be to include a mini-dex, but a simple pamplet giving the rules just for the contents of the box would work too.

Except now Battleforces are useful both as a core to build around and as an expansion set. Mono-pose models would look good once, but after the second or third set, they get annoying fast and relegated to filler models. People buy multiple battleforces to get the models in them at a discount. People buy starters for the rules and the cheap models, not generally because they think the snapfit models are superior to multipart.

The reason the starters are mono-pose models is for ease of assembly, so people can pop them off the sprues, snap them together, and start playing in like 20 minutes. they can do some nice things with them, but multipart models are generally superior for veteran players, especially as they come with more options and convertibility.

Malakai
20-06-2012, 19:05
Even my wife (new player) complained of her mono-pose marines from AoBR (that I lovingly scraped off tac marks and that weird star thing to make them BT). So newbies DO know a difference in quality when they see it.

Joewrightgm
21-06-2012, 13:47
I actually think we'll get a good look at the starter minis the new rule book; the 5th edition rule book actually featured the starter minis very heavily in a lot of the pictures, so I think we'll know in less than a week!

punisher_1983
21-06-2012, 17:57
just got an email from Wayland
http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/pre-orders/games-workshop/june-2012/cat_1213.html?utm_content=shaggy_2_good_2001%40yah oo.com&utm_source=VerticalResponse&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=here&utm_campaign=40K%206th%20Edition%20Pre%20Orders%20 Now%20Available%20at%20Wayland%20Games!content

dont say no dates though

Starchild
21-06-2012, 18:00
@Joewrightgm: Good point! Would be nice to get a preview that way.

@MajorWes: If GW has made the new 40k starter to the same level of quality as Island of Blood, I think we'll want multiple boxes. Mono-pose models can be mixed in with multipart models for more variety. In the case of Deathwing it will be the only way to get them (bland Terminators painted bone white excepted) until if/when GW releases a multipart Deathwing kit.

MajorWesJanson
21-06-2012, 18:48
@Joewrightgm: Good point! Would be nice to get a preview that way.

@MajorWes: If GW has made the new 40k starter to the same level of quality as Island of Blood, I think we'll want multiple boxes. Mono-pose models can be mixed in with multipart models for more variety. In the case of Deathwing it will be the only way to get them (bland Terminators painted bone white excepted) until if/when GW releases a multipart Deathwing kit.

True, somewhat. But multiple IoB sets leave you with a bunch of identical Griffons, Mages, and Warlords. Plus fantasy is designed far more around the unit filler models. It's why I never got into it after dipping my toe in. I don't like the idea of a formation requiring 40 models of which only 5 really count.

Fantasy blocks of troops tolerate monopose models far better than 40K where models are spread out and more visible.

I'm not saying that the starter models are bad, in fact I am fond of both them and the Space Hulk terminators. But while they work for a starter, they are not really viable to replace battleforces with.

Starchild
21-06-2012, 19:19
To each his own. ;)

I got used to multiples of the same 40k model in the early 90's... if anyone remembers the first Eldar Aspect Warriors? :p

Emperors Teeth
21-06-2012, 19:21
I like the idea of a single-army starter set. There's nothing stopping someone splitting the single army to learn the rules, but I bet GW is hoping groups of friends will get into the hobby and buy multiple sets instead of splitting a single one... It's win-win in a way I suppose; the new player gets more stuff for their own army, and GW may well sell more starter sets.

dean
21-06-2012, 19:42
To each his own. ;)

I got used to multiples of the same 40k model in the early 90's... if anyone remembers the first Eldar Aspect Warriors? :p

hey! Eldar aspects had two poses.... Generally one with weight on the front foot and one with weight on the back. Pity the 1k sons who only had one pose.

Aryllon
21-06-2012, 20:40
To each his own. ;)

I got used to multiples of the same 40k model in the early 90's... if anyone remembers the first Eldar Aspect Warriors? :p

Oooh you just reminded me of the Web of Skulls! Autarch weapon option please!

timdp
21-06-2012, 21:42
I like the idea of a single-army starter set. There's nothing stopping someone splitting the single army to learn the rules, but I bet GW is hoping groups of friends will get into the hobby and buy multiple sets instead of splitting a single one... It's win-win in a way I suppose; the new player gets more stuff for their own army, and GW may well sell more starter sets.

...and they can keep the retail price the same as AOBR so no one can complain about a price increase...:D

jtrowell
21-06-2012, 22:01
Wait, I remenber the idea of having 2 starter set as being from a rather old rumour, with nothing recent to confirm it.

With many rumours from so long ago since proven false, is there some recent source that confirmed it, or has this whole discussion started just with someone quoting the old rumour and others following like if it has been confirmed as fact ?

If I missed some recent confirmation, please feel free to redirect me to it.

Spiney Norman
21-06-2012, 22:48
I like the idea of a single-army starter set. There's nothing stopping someone splitting the single army to learn the rules, but I bet GW is hoping groups of friends will get into the hobby and buy multiple sets instead of splitting a single one... It's win-win in a way I suppose; the new player gets more stuff for their own army, and GW may well sell more starter sets.

I can't see it happening to be honest you'd essentially just have a battle force with a mini rule book included, so people would simply use it as a cheap way to get hold of the rule book and battleforce at the same time when GW would obviously rather sell them the battleforce and rule book separately. The whole point in a starter set is giving someone two starter armies that they might well both build into full sized forces one day as a means of getting new players into the hobby, not as a way of providing existing players with a cheap copy of the rules and some discounted models to add to their collection.

Single army starter sets would be great news for the gamer and deprive GW of sales, which is why it will never happen! The GW execs are too mercenary these days

simonbeard
22-06-2012, 00:22
...and they can keep the retail price the same as AOBR so no one can complain about a price increase...:D

I'm not sure I believe that the starter set is split up (as said earlier, that's what battle force box sets are for). Starters are supposed to have everything you need to play the game (remember, there used to be rules, quick reference sheets — sometimes, two armies, dice, terrain — not counting 5th ed, and measuring sticks — not counting 2nd ed), and you can't really play the game with a single army and some terrain. I think all the "two starters" rumors spawned out of Harry saying there was going to be a special edition.

Now, if there are in fact two starters with separate armies (doubtful), I think timdp is right (while far more humorous about it than I can muster myself to be), and this wold be just a way that GW could increase prices again while telling their customers that it was done in our interests. They are a business after all, and we'd be fooling ourselves by thinking otherwise.

Ace Rimmer
22-06-2012, 06:05
To each his own. ;)

I got used to multiples of the same 40k model in the early 90's... if anyone remembers the first Eldar Aspect Warriors? :p

Remember? I'm still using mine!

I can't forsee the starter set being split into 2. Whilst GW could see the money-making logic in charging slightly less for a 1 army set than the usually good value 2 army set, it does defeat the purpose of the starter set altogether, as has been said already by others.

FerociousBeast
22-06-2012, 13:41
With only one army, it wouldn't be a starter set, now would it? To start the game, you need a minimum of two players and two armies.

Anyway, old rumor, unknown source, not going to happen.

DoctorTom
22-06-2012, 16:58
With only one army, it wouldn't be a starter set, now would it? To start the game, you need a minimum of two players and two armies.

Anyway, old rumor, unknown source, not going to happen.

It's a starter set the way Magic sells starter decks - they don't give out 2 decks in the one package so that both sides would be able to play.

It would be a definite paradigm shift though if they went this route. I think they'll stick with having a complete set for both players in the box rather than going the CCG route.

Hawkkf
22-06-2012, 21:16
When I was in a hobby store the other day, I saw another company's starter set. It had 3 variants. The first had two factions the same way GW currently does. The other 2 starter sets each had one of the factions with double the models.

GW could easily do the same thing. Not exactly balanced forces, but good buys for current customers. Heck they could even use the boxes as makeshift army boxes. Not saying I think it will happen, but I don't see how the option would hurt GW since they still would have a beginner's set and make the same money of veteran's sets with the same amount of plastics.

Brother Muninn
23-06-2012, 00:51
GW could easily do the same thing. Not exactly balanced forces, but good buys for current customers. Heck they could even use the boxes as makeshift army boxes. Not saying I think it will happen, but I don't see how the option would hurt GW since they still would have a beginner's set and make the same money of veteran's sets with the same amount of plastics.

That sounds like a battalion box to me. Good models for those building up their forces, but they don't have the same pull for new players like the starter box does.

Winterfell
23-06-2012, 14:41
The reason I dont like the single army starter is because not only does it jip newbies out of a second army to play with their friends and hopefully build up both forces it also discourages veterans from picking it up. Personally if it was DA & Chaos I was fine with that because I have small interest in starting DA but moderate interest in starting chaos. I knew that I could trade off the DA and have the beginnings of a decent Chaos army. If rumors are true then I wont buy any starter sets cause I know I'll only be getting a small chaos force and isnt enough interest me into picking up the starter.

Jonahmaul
23-06-2012, 15:29
I would bet money on the starter set not being two seperate boxes with a single army in them. It makes no sense as GW's boxes have always contained two armies and the recent editions for both WFB and 40K have been great boxes. Even if we take the mercenary GW want to make money angle it still make sense for them to sell a starter set with two armies in so there's enough to start an army but you will need to spend more money. If they want starter sets to sell at all then they wouldn't get away with selling them for the current price (or higher) but with only half the amount of miniatures you currently get plus some scenery. Despite general reservations with GW's pricing policies the box sets have always been decent value so I'm gonna let the optimist in me say the 6th edition one will be the same (hopefully!)

Shas0cho
23-06-2012, 17:31
A thought I had - with the new purchasable fortifications, it would make a lot more sense for this to include some fortification terrain.

Importman
23-06-2012, 18:09
The rumour regarding seperate starter set concept is horrible. But I wouldn't put it past GW to do something like this. However I sincerely hope that is not happening.

Jonahmaul
23-06-2012, 19:13
There's clearly going to be a scenery push although how much of this will come with the starter set is debateable because the starter sets are generally aimed at teaching the more basic rules (not sure how integral the new fortifications are to army lists though). The limited edition starter set that's been mentioned could well include this stuff though.

As a side point it's interesting that the new WD doesn't seem to push DA's too much, it seems to be focusing a lot on Ultramarines still! Also, the picture that's on the side of the last few months WD's (made up when you stack the spines together) is a DA from the collectors edition rulebook.

Inquisitor Engel
24-06-2012, 04:42
When I was in a hobby store the other day, I saw another company's starter set. It had 3 variants. The first had two factions the same way GW currently does. The other 2 starter sets each had one of the factions with double the models.

This makes a lot more sense, especially if the mini-rulebook is "free."

My friend JUST got back into it and I think convincing him to shell out $75* for a rulebook is going to be tough. Luckily he's going with Space Marines, so "battalion +mini book" would be just the thing for him.


*Personally I think $75 for the rulebook is a hard price to swallow for most gamers, no matter how nice it is. I'm going to wait and see if there's an iPad version first and how much it is. If it's not competitively priced, I'll grab the real one and scan it to PDF. No way I'm carrying around a book like that just to see it trashed. SPIRAL BOUND BOOKS GW! I WILL BUY THEM!

Jonahmaul
24-06-2012, 08:24
Games Workshop pricing and release strategy is very clever in this respect. By releasing the new rulebook this week and the starter set rumoured to not be arriving until September they push people towards buying the hardback version if they want to play the game over the summer (which of course they do). Come September people want the shiny new toys that come with the starter set or are fed up of lugging around the hardback version so want the more streamlined version. I expect there will be a digital version as this is GW's latest (and long overdue) push but expect it to come some months later again so they can try and get people to potentially shell out a third time.

On the scenery being included in the starter set I've read more of my WD and I think it's even more unlikely that the sets will contain a single army with scenery. The fortifications you can buy are sets that already exist like Bastions, Aegis Defence Lines etc. and there's what's essentailly an advertising feature in there detailing the different types of scenery available and how it's used. It a good idea that scenery is becoming more involved in the game but the cynic in me definitely sees the GW push to sell extra stuff!

Reivax26
24-06-2012, 08:46
I fail to see how jacking up the prices every year in a world plagued by struggling economies is helping them to draw in new players. At Adepticon this year Privateer Press was giving away stuff. All the gamers that went there are going to remember that too. 4 people in my gaming club have already sold their 40k armies and switched to Warmachine. They keep asking me when I am going to do the same and it is getting more and more tempting with every passing day.

I am going to give 6th a chance to impress me enough to stay but if this ends up just being a race to see who can come up with the best "Allies Combo" then I will be selling my stuff. I got out of Magic years ago because it became a race to see who could pull off the game winning combo first and the strategy aspect of the game had been removed. I am really hoping that GW doesn't follow that same path but given their history I kind of expect it.

The_Dark_Raven
24-06-2012, 08:54
I fail to see how jacking up the prices every year in a world plagued by struggling economies is helping them to draw in new players. At Adepticon this year Privateer Press was giving away stuff. All the gamers that went there are going to remember that too. 4 people in my gaming club have already sold their 40k armies and switched to Warmachine. They keep asking me when I am going to do the same and it is getting more and more tempting with every passing day.

I am going to give 6th a chance to impress me enough to stay but if this ends up just being a race to see who can come up with the best "Allies Combo" then I will be selling my stuff. I got out of Magic years ago because it became a race to see who could pull off the game winning combo first and the strategy aspect of the game had been removed. I am really hoping that GW doesn't follow that same path but given their history I kind of expect it.

When I saw the price of the rulebook here (AUS) I was shocked and couldn't imagine the starter set being an option for anyone getting into the hobby given it has to cost more then the rulebook. I'm rather amazed that they can expect existing players to fork out this kind of money just to keep up to date with the gaming system. I'm rather concerned considering my gaming group has been buying online, second hand and avoiding purchases from store as much as possible. Sooner or later they are going to find themselves without a customer in store because they kept pushing the price up to compensate for low sales.

If 6th edition isn't any fun then we (as a club) have agreed to continue using 5th edition rules and just having our own fun and letting GW go on down the path of destruction.

Kroq9Gar
24-06-2012, 09:26
Which to me is a good thing. Replace every battleforce with one of these! I would rather see a bunch of well-sculpted unique monopose models than the minimal savings on normal models that battleforces offer. If every battleforce is basically replaced with a starter (with terrain and rulebook and dice and everything else), we might even see more variation in armies because new players are not having Space Marines "forced" on them from the starter. And if the models are well done - along the same lines as the legendary Space Hulk Blood Angels - veterans will buy the starters for the shiny new awesome Commander Badass minis. The only way to make it better would be to include a mini-dex, but a simple pamplet giving the rules just for the contents of the box would work too.
But do you really believe that they'd do good models? There might be a good HQ like in AOBR, but not much more. The tac marines, termies and dread are basic, and I personally want the individuality that making your own models brings.

lantzkev
24-06-2012, 09:32
Having allies means suddenly people start collecting 2nd and 3rd armies without realizing it.

Also when you buy box sets that have two different armies in it, but suddenly they are both supplemental to your own army, you realize you can paint and use more of it without having to sell it or collect an entire different army.

This lets people take the cool things they like and use just that. The balance issues aren't going to be as bad as you think I bet though, specifically if for smaller point games you're limited to the HQ and a troop.

Tokamak
24-06-2012, 13:32
All at the cost of diversity. Armies will start looking more and more like each other as each distinct and characteristic unit can now be used by a whole range of armies.

Daigar
24-06-2012, 17:21
The balance issues aren't going to be as bad as you think I bet though, specifically if for smaller point games you're limited to the HQ and a troop.

Lower point games will just mean that when you take an ally, it's HQ+troop combo must be better than your own elites/heavy support/whatever else you're not spending points on. So basically everyone who can will include Draigowing, Loganwing or (sometime in the future) Deathwing.

Rick Blaine
24-06-2012, 18:29
Lower point games will just mean that when you take an ally, it's HQ+troop combo must be better than your own elites/heavy support/whatever else you're not spending points on. So basically everyone who can will include Draigowing, Loganwing or (sometime in the future) Deathwing.

Assuming (and you know what assuming makes us)
- you can take special characters as HQ
- FOC modifications work across Codexes
- those units will be top tier in 6th

lantzkev
25-06-2012, 01:50
as a tau player, I'd rather spend points on a crisis suit than a terminator suit to be honest.

Jonahmaul
25-06-2012, 06:48
We'll find out soon enough but I'm sure there'll be restrictions on allies. I think there are some exceptions where there can be odd mixes (Eldar and Marines for example) but I don't think you'll be able to just choose freely. I also think it's likely you'll have to fill out a fair chunk of your own force organisation before you can start taking allies so they will all but be negated in smaller games. You've always got the option for agreeing with your opponents not to use them as well.

RandomThoughts
25-06-2012, 11:12
Lower point games will just mean that when you take an ally, it's HQ+troop combo must be better than your own elites/heavy support/whatever else you're not spending points on. So basically everyone who can will include Draigowing, Loganwing or (sometime in the future) Deathwing.

I don't buy it.
IF they want top run Draigowing, Loganwing or Deathwing, why wouldn't they just play Grey Knights, Space Wolves or Dark Angels in the first place.

The only people sticking it out with the non-super-armies are those that like the look or feel of their own army.

Sureshot05
25-06-2012, 13:15
It appears that Word Bearers are the Chaos legion of choice.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=143751&d=1340550094

Glorious news for the dark powers. ;)

If they make the CSM's in the box look like that then we're in a for treat.

TheConverter15
25-06-2012, 13:19
@ Sureshot05: There appears to be a chaos sorcerer in the background too :D Hope it is Word Bearers, would make sense as both DA and WB are zealotous :)

Bannik
25-06-2012, 13:31
It appears that Word Bearers are the Chaos legion of choice.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=143751&d=1340550094

Glorious news for the dark powers. ;)

If they make the CSM's in the box look like that then we're in a for treat.

Looks like the obliterator virus got into every single chaos marine which is AWESOME

Kaelarr
25-06-2012, 13:41
I must make a retraction - There is a Chaos dread in the starter set, but it is not the multipart plastic kit, that will be released separately. Sorry, there were some crossed wires in my info...

Son of Morkai
25-06-2012, 13:58
Warhammer Fantasy has allies rules too. Under the "Totally Optional But Not Official So You Never Actually Get To Use Them" section. But it still has them. THEREFORE 8TH EDITION IS BROKEN. People are fielding Skavenslaves alongside Chaos Warriors and Empire Cannons. TOTALLY BROKEN. I swear I went to a tournament and some guy had a LEMAN RUSS as part of his Lizardman army! Warhammer is ruined forever!

If only the power of Whineseer could be harnessed... we could solve... probably nothing.

Sildani
25-06-2012, 14:48
So, what will it be then? A different multi-part snapfit, like the AoBR dread?

Jonahmaul
25-06-2012, 15:55
Word Bearers would be interesting. I'm reading Battle for the Abyss at the moment which is somewhat ironic! The plastic dread will more than likely be an equivalent to the AoBR box. Rumours that it's not going to be called a dreadnought though as Chaos won't have them any more (like Eldar got Wraithlords). Deceimators maybe following the Forgeworld releases?

EDIT - went over to read What's New Today on GW webby and seems allies are fairly unrestricted contary to my previous speculation. The article is pretty brief but it discusses Eldar and Dark Elder allying and Eldar and Orks which seem like very very unlikely cominations (Eldar and DE especially).

DoggNewTrix
25-06-2012, 16:09
Would make the rumors of PA chaos troops and guard like cultist more logical. Introduce the allies rules in the starter set by said means. Could even lend some credence to the dual kit rumors (though I doubt them as the starter sets always played "out of the box") but you could have many more models. I also noted a rise in base game points in the WD battle reports this month. Chaos vs Guard at 2500 pts, I guess to add fortifications?

theJ
25-06-2012, 16:15
So, what will it be then? A different multi-part snapfit, like the AoBR dread?

The starters tend to be purely snap-fit single-pose models, so yes, that sounds about right.

@Son of Morkai: The fantasy rules allow players to ally in order to play "multiplayer" games, they do not allow a single player to use several armies at once(unless you houserule, obviously).

@Jonahmaul: Orkz play mercenaries almost as often as Kroot do, and unlike their fantasy equivalents, Eldar and Dark Eldar don't really mind allying with one another. In fact, I'd wager your average Archon would be more willing to ally with his craftworld cousins than with another Archon... it's just safer that way :p

Rick Blaine
25-06-2012, 16:28
So, what will it be then? A different multi-part snapfit, like the AoBR dread?

That's the safe guess.

MiyamatoMusashi
25-06-2012, 16:38
EDIT - went over to read What's New Today on GW webby and seems allies are fairly unrestricted contary to my previous speculation. The article is pretty brief but it discusses Eldar and Dark Elder allying and Eldar and Orks which seem like very very unlikely cominations (Eldar and DE especially).

While I don't agree that Eldar and DE are a particularly unlikely combo, the What's New article does indeed seem to say "do what thou wilt, and that shall be the whole of the law".

Your army has a weakness? Take allies - not any more!

I can't be the only one that finds the weakness of an army, a fundamental and appealling part of their character?

ilikebmxbikes
25-06-2012, 16:44
While I don't agree that Eldar and DE are a particularly unlikely combo, the What's New article does indeed seem to say "do what thou wilt, and that shall be the whole of the law".

Your army has a weakness? Take allies - not any more!

I can't be the only one that finds the weakness of an army, a fundamental and appealling part of their character?

I agree. The weakness in 40k forces is usually what gives them their character. I follow the fluff of my armies to a fault. I find most people I have played with in my area are more of power gamers and pic their armies only based on how strong they can make their forces. Im not saying either approach is right or wrong, however I feel most people tend to follow the power game approach. That being said, Allies could be a way to make all the armies more appealing to those groups.

Tokamak
25-06-2012, 17:09
They simply should've made the inclusion of allies more punitive to raise the bar for people who want to exploit it. True fluff players will take on board the units regardless of the costs if it suits their story.

I actually would love to have a unit of orks and a unit of IG on board my Tau army as it's theme is that it heavily relies on mercenaries (max amount of kroot, vespid and demiurg). I would eagerly have a bigger disadvantage (to the point of units turning on you during the match) to demonstrate that the chocie is purely fluff based rather than competitive or whimsical.

Ramius4
25-06-2012, 17:22
It appears that Word Bearers are the Chaos legion of choice.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=143751&d=1340550094

Glorious news for the dark powers. ;)

If they make the CSM's in the box look like that then we're in a for treat.

What are you basing your assumption that they are Word Bearers on, other than the fact that they have red armor? I can't spot any sort of iconography.

Not that it's important to me, just curious.

Tokamak
25-06-2012, 17:31
The other red armour is World Eaters and they aren't known for daemonic possession and mutation as much as Word Bearers. It's all speculation but Word Bearers is the most likely chapter next to simply being vanilla chaos.

Ramius4
25-06-2012, 17:37
The other red armour is World Eaters and they aren't known for daemonic possession and mutation as much as Word Bearers. It's all speculation but Word Bearers is the most likely chapter next to simply being vanilla chaos.

Certainly likely, although they could just as easily be a generic Chapter of (insert name here) with red armor as the Word Bearers Legion. The helmet aesthetic certainly gives them a Word Bearers feel.

Also worth noting that Hastings mentioned Dark Angels and 'Chaos marines'. And he tends to be spot on, so I'd have expected if they were a specific Legion he'd have said so.

Tokamak
25-06-2012, 17:47
Yeah and it's a starterset after all, it's easier for beginners if they're just nameless villains.

Jonahmaul
25-06-2012, 17:54
Would make the rumors of PA chaos troops and guard like cultist more logical. Introduce the allies rules in the starter set by said means. Could even lend some credence to the dual kit rumors (though I doubt them as the starter sets always played "out of the box") but you could have many more models. I also noted a rise in base game points in the WD battle reports this month. Chaos vs Guard at 2500 pts, I guess to add fortifications?

You can play games to any agreed points cost so I wouldn't read too much into this as the second battle report (White Scars v Orks) is smaller points. However, more generally I do think GW are going to push towards larger pointed 'basic' games like they did with WFB if no other reason that to sell more stuff.


While I don't agree that Eldar and DE are a particularly unlikely combo, the What's New article does indeed seem to say "do what thou wilt, and that shall be the whole of the law".

Your army has a weakness? Take allies - not any more!

I can't be the only one that finds the weakness of an army, a fundamental and appealling part of their character?

This. The idea is that armies have both strengths and weaknesses and the army that people choose tends to be based on their personal preferences. If you like shooting you go Tau or Necrons. Like close combat, focus on Tyranids or Orks. Want a balance, go for Space Marines. Obviously that's rather simplistic as you can tailor your armies within that to be how you want too (although if you try to build a combat Tau army you're asking for trouble!). But you shouldn't just be able to overcome your armies weaknesses by choosing unit from another one, that's part of the challenge of the game.



I agree. The weakness in 40k forces is usually what gives them their character. I follow the fluff of my armies to a fault. I find most people I have played with in my area are more of power gamers and pic their armies only based on how strong they can make their forces. Im not saying either approach is right or wrong, however I feel most people tend to follow the power game approach. That being said, Allies could be a way to make all the armies more appealing to those groups.

Again, I agree. I do armies either because I have a good idea for them (Nurgle themed Ogre Kingdom for example) or because they are on that I would like to paint (my Brazen Claws for example), not because of what I think will work well. Playing against people who power game is just no fun and one of the main things that's put me off getting back into gaming properly. I think allies could be an interesting idea but the 'take anything you want' approach is wrong in my book. There should be a table showing who can ally with whom (Tyranids with nobody, Space Marines never with Chaos Space Marines etc.) and restrictions on what you can take (no Elites maybe? Can only have one of each force selection choice per two from your chosen army?). Obviously if you're playing multi-player games then this could be ignored, if a Marine army finds a Tyranid army rocking up beside it for some unknown reason fair enough but you should not be able to see one with a random Tervigan or something.

Souleater
25-06-2012, 21:54
Could we keep this thread for discussing the starter set, please? There are plenty of threads on allies, etc already. :)

Odin
25-06-2012, 22:29
When I saw the price of the rulebook here (AUS) I was shocked and couldn't imagine the starter set being an option for anyone getting into the hobby given it has to cost more then the rulebook. I'm rather amazed that they can expect existing players to fork out this kind of money just to keep up to date with the gaming system. I'm rather concerned considering my gaming group has been buying online, second hand and avoiding purchases from store as much as possible. Sooner or later they are going to find themselves without a customer in store because they kept pushing the price up to compensate for low sales.

If 6th edition isn't any fun then we (as a club) have agreed to continue using 5th edition rules and just having our own fun and letting GW go on down the path of destruction.

So, you expected the starter set (with rulebook and models) to be cheaper than the rulebook on its own...?

Iron Puritan
25-06-2012, 22:38
That's not what that sentence means. It means that the poster had a thought about the cost of the starter set being prohibitive at its usual price point relative to the standalone rulebook. Given how much the BRB costs in certain markets, the starter sets are going to be rather expensive.

BramGaunt
25-06-2012, 22:38
No, I'd expect that he expects to be treated fair and pay aproximatly the same as the rest of the world.

Hawkkf
26-06-2012, 05:58
My guess would be that the chaos forces are just generic chaos. Since their rules will be found in C:CSM and not in C:WordBearers. GW will want to make it as simple and easy as possible for little timmy's parents to find more of what is in the starter on the shelf or online. Parents and likely new players wont know all of the background or be able to tell apart one chaos faction from another.

On a side note, the spanish codexes are being transfered over to inches... well all except dark angels and chaos. So both will be getting new codexes very soon since both are very old and starring in the starter set. I doubt it would ever happen, but it would be interesting if GW released the two codexes together. Would it be possible for GW to cover enough of each book by combining existing models, new models from the starter set, and a wave release? Since I don't play either army I couldn't say how much is needed to be added. But I would be willing to wager (like $1 at most) that if the starter set has both deathwing and ravenwing models, then a small wave models for new codex entries would be all that is needed to field the majority of the book. I would assume they could do the same for chaos, but I know even less about what is missing from thier model range.

Just my two cents, bu I would thik GW could make a killing at christmas if both of the starter armies had new codexes and models outside of he starter. I would think parents are more eager to expand on what thier kids already own rather than buying stuff they are not sure thie kids would like.

Son of Morkai
26-06-2012, 06:50
@Son of Morkai: The fantasy rules allow players to ally in order to play "multiplayer" games, they do not allow a single player to use several armies at once(unless you houserule, obviously).

Exactly my point. Pretending that the allies rules are going to ruin the game is an insane knee-jerk reaction. Most people seem to be assuming that there are no restrictions or drawbacks to taking allies, when the promo partial scans show very clearly that there can be major drawbacks, such as accidental friendly fire, immunity to friendly psychic powers and no Warlord bonus. I just don't get why people are assuming that the new edition is the End of All Things. I've seen people take the news that they are going to die with more grace than the majority of posters here are showing when there's the smallest possibility that something might not be exactly as they demand it to be. If it is such a big problem, don't play people with allies. If you're a hardcore tournament player and can't do that... organize your own tournaments and do not allow allies. WHFB's comp shows that tournaments do not have to strictly follow the game's rules.

Problem. Solved.

Soulless
26-06-2012, 07:11
New edition will be the long awaited rejuvenation needed by wh40 to get it in line with old RT that we all loved and played. WH40K is going back to its roots at least.

Starchild
26-06-2012, 20:12
@Hawkkf: The closer we get to September and beyond the more I'm thinking GW will bite the bolt and release DA and Chaos close together if not within the same month.

I too pointed out how easy it would be for GW to release a new DA book. With the new starter that's at least one unit that's been 23(!) years overdue (plastic Deathwing) and with a Deathwing Master that's another special character. If there are new units these can be released next year in later waves.

Granted there are lots of Chaos units that need model makeovers but with so much pent-up demand GW would do fine to release for example first wave Chaos models & codex early in a month then just the new Dark Angel codex later in the same month (no new models until next year).

Rick Blaine
26-06-2012, 20:59
Um... the entire point o releasing codex is selling new models.

Flydd
26-06-2012, 21:56
@Hawkkf: The closer we get to September and beyond the more I'm thinking GW will bite the bolt and release DA and Chaos close together if not within the same month.

I too pointed out how easy it would be for GW to release a new DA book. With the new starter that's at least one unit that's been 23(!) years overdue (plastic Deathwing) and with a Deathwing Master that's another special character. If there are new units these can be released next year in later waves.

Granted there are lots of Chaos units that need model makeovers but with so much pent-up demand GW would do fine to release for example first wave Chaos models & codex early in a month then just the new Dark Angel codex later in the same month (no new models until next year).

Rather than a dual codex release I am expecting DA to arrive at the same time as the hobbit. If Chaos come in August then the starter in September that gives a fantasy window in October with the Hobbit and DA turning up in November, possibly DA at the start of the month and the Hobbit at the end. THe DA second wave could then be mixed with either the Christmas releases or be in January.

Excessus
26-06-2012, 22:09
Pity the 1k sons who only had one pose.
One pose? Well, yeah, if you didn't do like me and spent a truckload of money on buying librarian bodies and putting sawed-off TS heads on them... :P

Most expensive squad I have EVER built!!!

loveless
28-06-2012, 14:35
Most expensive squad I have EVER built!!!

Probably the most awesome, though, yeah? :D

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So...if the Chaos Marines look like the ones on the rulebook cover art (I assume that's what we're looking at), then I'm in on the starter set. Hopefully they retool the stock snap-fit marines, though, as those are rather abysmal models.

Hrogoff the Destructor
28-06-2012, 15:13
So...if the Chaos Marines look like the ones on the rulebook cover art (I assume that's what we're looking at), then I'm in on the starter set. Hopefully they retool the stock snap-fit marines, though, as those are rather abysmal models.

I doubt all the snap fit squad models will be bad. Island of Blood's HE squads (minus the very repetitive Ellyrion riders) were all pretty good. Plus, that gryphon was top notch, I'm sure there will be at least two amazing models for each side.

Either way I'm getting a lot of chaos marines and Fallen to induct in my army!

Graystoak
28-06-2012, 16:08
So...if the Chaos Marines look like the ones on the rulebook cover art (I assume that's what we're looking at), then I'm in on the starter set. Hopefully they retool the stock snap-fit marines, though, as those are rather abysmal models.

Aren't we a bit bored of chaos marines just being marines with horns & spikes now? I'm hoping they get a re vamp on par with the Dark Eldar. Maybe some pre-heresy armour variants... & a few with horns, just for old times sake!

Jonahmaul
28-06-2012, 18:31
I doubt we'll see pre-heresy as it doesn't fit in with warhammer 40,000. But a revamp would be nice, armour more twisted and possibly older looking as Chaos don't get as much access to new armour etc. that regular space marines do.

Thoth62
28-06-2012, 22:27
Greystoak, I'm mostly bored of chaos being so boring. I don't mind the spiky marines all that much. Sure a recut, or some model updates are needed, but what I'm looking forward to most is just seeing a new codex.

Graystoak
28-06-2012, 23:49
I won't argue with that.
If we get something in the box on a par with the AOBR miniatures I'll be a happy chaos follower. I'm more interested in the codex but it'll be nice to have something to tide us over.

Jonahmaul, by 'pre Heresy' I meant older looking armour. Your right, actual pre heresy doesn't fit the current time line.

Melchiah
29-06-2012, 01:26
What can we expect in the way of the terrain that is set to come with the starter sets?

Starchild
29-06-2012, 02:45
@Melchiah: Considering the precedent set by Island of Blood (and Assault on Black Reach) I think the most terrain we'll see are a few objective markers for the starter set scenarios, if any.

The Dude
29-06-2012, 07:11
Maybe walls. They'd be the simplest fortification to include.

Jonahmaul
29-06-2012, 08:17
The AoBR scenery was pretty good even if it was pretty limited in it's use. Judging by the important role that scenery/fortifications play in the new 40k I think that we'll definitely see some scenery in the box. As The Dude suggests walls would definitely be the easiest to include. Guess it depends on whether there is going to be one or two start sets. Rumours about there being two suggest that there won't be extra miniatures but extra scenery instead (probably army specific). Personally I doubt the rumours of two starter sets though.

The Dude
29-06-2012, 10:26
AoBR didn't have scenery, BfM did.