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underscore
14-06-2012, 00:19
Ok, figured I'd stick this in a thread of it's own. Basically I've got a friend who collects High Elves and now has a decent collection of models she likes. However, she has no love for list making so I've made an attempt to collect together her stuff into a decent enough fun list. Now I don't have much experience with High Elves so I want to make sure I don't give duffer! Pretty much all of it is bought so it's mostly a case of putting it together the best I can, maybe suggesting dropping a unit here, adding something there.

Anyway, here it goes, this is the full list:

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High Elves (Dragon Mage Build):

LORDS - 454 points
Prince - Dragon Armour - Griffon - Star Lance, Vambraces of Defense: 454

HEROES - 570 points
Noble - Battle Standard - Armour of Caledor: 135
Dragon Mage - Lv 2 - Sliver Wand, Ring of Fury: 435

CORE - 642 points
16 Archers - Light Armour - Full Command: 217
20 Spearmen - Light, Shield - Full Command: 205
15 Sea Guard - Light, Shield - Full Command: 220

SPECIAL - 833 points
10 SwordMasters - Full Command: 180
10 White Lions - Full Command: 180
Lion Chariot - 140
5 Ellyrian Reavers - Bows - Full Command: 133
5 Dragon Princes - Full Command: 200

TOTAL: 2499
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The other setup I'm considering is switching the Dragon Mage for the Lord model and using that as a general. That way I can add two Lv 2 Mages rather than one - at the moment it looks like it's a little light on that side and, considering I'm planning to run 3 Wizards myself (1x Lv4 & 2x Lv1s), I don't want to be a jerk and give her a list I can just roll over!:


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High Elves (Dragon Lord Build):

LORD - 603 points
Prince - Lance, Dragon Armour, Shield - Vambraces of Defense, Talisman of Loec- Star Dragon: 603

HEROES - 512 points:
Noble - Battle Standard - Strieking Blade, Armour of Caledor: 145
Mage - Lv 2 - Silver Wand, Guardian Phoenix: 170
Mage - Lv 2 - Elven Steed, Ring of Fury, Seed of Rebirth: 197

CORE - 642 points:
As above

SPECIAL - 715 points
As above, but:
Remove Ellyrian Reavers: -133
Add The Terrifying Mask of EEE! to either SwordMasters or White Lions Champ: 25
Add Banner of Ellyrion to Dragon Princes: 15

TOTAL: 2497
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The only other question I have is: how important is the BSB for Elves? I usually play Skaven so obviously it's a given in that army, but with the more reliable leadership of the Elves is it still a case of never leaving home without one?

Cheers for any comments.

Pointy Headed Elven Paladin
14-06-2012, 06:38
Ok, figured I'd stick this in a thread of it's own. Basically I've got a friend who collects High Elves and now has a decent collection of models she likes. However, she has no love for list making so I've made an attempt to collect together her stuff into a decent enough fun list. Now I don't have much experience with High Elves so I want to make sure I don't give duffer! Pretty much all of it is bought so it's mostly a case of putting it together the best I can, maybe suggesting dropping a unit here, adding something there.

Anyway, here it goes, this is the full list:

----------------------------------------------------------------
High Elves (Dragon Mage Build):

LORDS - 454 points
Prince - Dragon Armour - Griffon - Star Lance, Vambraces of Defense: 454

HEROES - 570 points
Noble - Battle Standard - Armour of Caledor: 135
Dragon Mage - Lv 2 - Sliver Wand, Ring of Fury: 435

CORE - 642 points
16 Archers - Light Armour - Full Command: 217
20 Spearmen - Light, Shield - Full Command: 205
15 Sea Guard - Light, Shield - Full Command: 220

SPECIAL - 833 points
10 SwordMasters - Full Command: 180
10 White Lions - Full Command: 180
Lion Chariot - 140
5 Ellyrian Reavers - Bows - Full Command: 133
5 Dragon Princes - Full Command: 200

TOTAL: 2499
----------------------------------------------------------------


The other setup I'm considering is switching the Dragon Mage for the Lord model and using that as a general. That way I can add two Lv 2 Mages rather than one - at the moment it looks like it's a little light on that side and, considering I'm planning to run 3 Wizards myself (1x Lv4 & 2x Lv1s), I don't want to be a jerk and give her a list I can just roll over!:


----------------------------------------------------------------
High Elves (Dragon Lord Build):

LORD - 603 points
Prince - Lance, Dragon Armour, Shield - Vambraces of Defense, Talisman of Loec- Star Dragon: 603

HEROES - 512 points:
Noble - Battle Standard - Strieking Blade, Armour of Caledor: 145
Mage - Lv 2 - Silver Wand, Guardian Phoenix: 170
Mage - Lv 2 - Elven Steed, Ring of Fury, Seed of Rebirth: 197

CORE - 642 points:
As above

SPECIAL - 715 points
As above, but:
Remove Ellyrian Reavers: -133
Add The Terrifying Mask of EEE! to either SwordMasters or White Lions Champ: 25
Add Banner of Ellyrion to Dragon Princes: 15

TOTAL: 2497
----------------------------------------------------------------


The only other question I have is: how important is the BSB for Elves? I usually play Skaven so obviously it's a given in that army, but with the more reliable leadership of the Elves is it still a case of never leaving home without one?

Cheers for any comments.

To be frank neither High Elf List is very strong. Typical High Elves list rely on the strength of their Magic users and/or their special units. What you have listed they have neither. Your friend will need more troops in the special choices to make either list more playable. Also The BSB is equipped poorly. The BSB is IMO is almost a necessary choice due to the fact that HE usually cannot afford to bring high Lvl. fighting heroes due to their point cost. The BSB usually fullfill this role in addition to it's battle standard duties. I'm hesitant to make suggestions since you've said this is pretty much her entire collection. I think the army lists you have above would function better at 1500 pts. games until she can get more numbers into her special units to put into play. At 2500 pts. I pretty sure your Skaven army will run her over easy if she uses the lists above (as most Skaven players I know field at least 2 WLC, a Hellpit Abominiation and/or a Doomwheel not to mention 3 wizards, a host of smaller artillery weapons teams on top of 3 to 4 large regiments two of which are 50+ blocks of Skaven slaves at that point scale).

underscore
14-06-2012, 08:23
Gotcha, that's what I was concerned about (though my Ratmen aren't nearly that brutal, I get the point!). Is the idea then to remove any fluff from the specials, like the chariot or the cavalry, and replace it with more hard-hitting troops?

I'll see if I can research other lists, but I presume that you're essentially saying she'll be needing a Lv4 in there somehow, with one or two mages to support? Hum, that showy-offy dragon is just eating up too many points! The Skaven in me just isn't used to to putting that much value on a life. :)

EcoWarrior
14-06-2012, 08:58
there must be a mistake i dont see teclis anywere

underscore
14-06-2012, 11:13
Hehe. Maybe I'll get her to pick Teclis up after we play, let someone else deal with him... :-)

Morax
14-06-2012, 13:36
Well, using the spearmen as the last few ranks of lothern sea guard and droping the lion chariot or the Ellyrian Reavers for 10 more white lions would go a long way to making it a better list. High elves need to stick to somewhat larger units in some cases to help off set that low armor save and toughness they have. I would likely drop some command models from a lot of the units but I get that they are assembled that way.

As for her mage, the seer staff is a must have for a level 2 wizard. If just used for a bit of magical defense, give that mage high magic, the 5+ ward save spell and flames of the pheonix. The Flames are a great spell and can help her manage large units and the 5+ ward helps support her combat blocks, protecting them from taking too much damage. Drain magic, in conjunction with the innate +1 to dispel, can have a powerful effect on stopping opposing magic spells before they start.

So all in all, for a CASUAL list, I would go with the second one, drop the mage on steed, give the mage on foot the seerstaff, and take more white lions with the points saved. I think that would give her a flexible army with lots of cool stuff to fiddle with without being so ultra nasty and keeping the amount of cash spent to a minimum.

underscore
14-06-2012, 19:57
Awesome, that all makes sense. I'll have a fiddle around and see if i cant rebalance a bit to get some more of the hard-hitters in there. Part of me wants to try to keep a second mage as well. I dunno, I guess i just fancy a good ol wizard's duel! :)

As I say, it is meant to be a casual list to help spark something off anyway - especially when we can always proxy some unused cavalry for a couple of ranks or somesuch. I'd just like to show her something which means she's inspired enough to start coming up with her own lists in the future and catch me off my guard!

Darrenjdd
14-06-2012, 20:22
If it hasn't been mentioned, most High Elf BSBs I've seen are 168 points. Mine has a Great Weapon, Armour of Caledor and Dawnstone. It means he basically can't be killed by rank and file, and he chews threw them. BSB is essential for me. You're right that Elves have higher leadership than other armies, but with so few units it can be fatal to have one fail a panic test, or a crucial break test that a BSB could prevent.

EcoWarrior
14-06-2012, 20:38
i think your units are way to small btw, only a few kills from shooting to make them panic and you've lost half your army

underscore
14-06-2012, 22:37
Hum. I wonder then whether it's worth having fewer units, but have them a bit bigger. I guess you'd like a few more than 3 casualties to cause a panic attack. With the models available I could re-jig them into something like this:


LORD - 533 points
Prince - Lance, Dragon Armour, Shield - Vambraces of Defense, Talisman of Loec- Moon Dragon: 533

HEROES - 490 points
Noble - Battle Standard - Great Weapon, Armour of Caledor, Dawnstone: 168
Mage - Lv2 - SeerStaff: 165
Mage - Lv2 - Elven Steed - Silver Wand

CORE - 622 points
16 Archers - Light Armour - Champion, Musician: 217
30 Sea Guard - Light, Shield - Full Command: 415

SPECIAL - 855 points
20 SwordMasters - Full Command - Ironcurse Icon: 335
20 White Lions - Full Command - Banner of Sorcery: 380
Lion Chariot - 140

TOTAL: 2500

Moss
15-06-2012, 04:22
Not to pull you in another direction, but swordmasters are one of those units you like to keep small. Like 12 or 14. Two ranks of six or seven models. It keeps your points spent per attack ratio low.

underscore
15-06-2012, 08:04
Ah, the subtlties... :-)

I was actually considering proxying the Swordmasters for a unit of Phoenix Guard anyway. 5 fewer attacks at a lower strength, but a 4+ ward might make sense if the idea is to have bigger units which stick around longer. It works out quite nicly that all the HE special troops cost the same - it makes it reasonably easy to play around and see the varoius strengths/weaknesses of each option.