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View Full Version : Ethereal vs Curse of Anraheir



Blkc57
16-06-2012, 10:49
Ok so bizarre situation came up. A unit of Hexwraiths had Curse of Anraheir cast on them while they were in a large copse of trees. I normally would have not cared as I believed that ethereal units were immune to dangerous terrain checks, but oddly thats not what ethereal says when we looked up the rule. The Ethereal rule only states that the unit "Treat all terrain as Open Terrain", and the wording of Curse of Anraheir is literally the exact opposite "Treat all terrain as Dangerous Terrain". So which rule takes precedence? Can you have Dangerous Open Terrain? And the obvious second part of my question is if Curse of Anrahier does takes precedence is the dangerous terrain check forced by the spell technically a "magical effect" that can even hurt the Hexwraith?

NitrosOkay
16-06-2012, 11:27
The passage "They are also never affected by any special rule, spell or magic item that would otherwise reduce their movement or stop them from moving completely." leads me to believe the intent is probably for them to be immune.

Nothing in the FAQ though.


Reading the rules dangerous terrain is its own type of terrain so I'm not sure you can have both. It would be like "Open, Impassable" terrain. Nowhere does it say which takes precedence but because of the passage above I'd lean towards immune.

I mean they do float around and even terrain attacking them passes through them.

Blkc57
16-06-2012, 12:16
Problem is Nitro that unlike something like Miasma , Curse of Anraheir doesn't reduce the movement or prevent the unit from moving, they just take dangerous terrain checks if they do decide to move. Would you claim the wording for ethereal makes them immune to the Lore of Light spell Net of Amyntok, where if they fail a strength check they take strength 4 hits and have their action canceled? Or are they immune to Fulminating Flame Cage in the Lore of Fire, where if they move they take strength 4 hits as well?

ArtificerArmour
16-06-2012, 13:57
They actually are not immune. All terrain is dangerous for the unit affected, even open. For the sake of this spell, the unit can count it as open and it can be dangerous - movement is unaffected

SanDiegoSurrealist
16-06-2012, 14:14
I agree with AA here, it is not effecting/hindering or restricting any movement so therefor the spell would affect an Ethereal unit, forcing them take Dangerous Terrain checks.

ArtificerArmour
16-06-2012, 18:21
I suppose for the poor ghost horsey who breaks its ankle his movement is affected for good though :p

NitrosOkay
16-06-2012, 19:58
Problem is Nitro that unlike something like Miasma , Curse of Anraheir doesn't reduce the movement or prevent the unit from moving, they just take dangerous terrain checks if they do decide to move. Would you claim the wording for ethereal makes them immune to the Lore of Light spell Net of Amyntok, where if they fail a strength check they take strength 4 hits and have their action canceled? Or are they immune to Fulminating Flame Cage in the Lore of Fire, where if they move they take strength 4 hits as well?

I'd say they'd be immune to Net because it would stop them from moving completely. But they would not be immune to flame cage because it wouldn't stop them from moving, just damage them.

Mid'ean
18-06-2012, 12:15
I agree with AA here, it is not effecting/hindering or restricting any movement so therefor the spell would affect an Ethereal unit, forcing them take Dangerous Terrain checks.

It wouldn't matter if they could be affected of not, they would take no damage from such a test. Not a magical attack. So why bother making them take a test???? A side note ethereal troops treat ALL terrain, dangerous included, as open terrain.

Valaraukar
18-06-2012, 14:46
The Ethereal rule says they can only be wounded by spells, magical attacks, weapons and effects you could argue this is both the result of a spell and a magical effect so it's not quite so clear cut as you are making out presumably hence the question and could do with an FAQ. Also as has been noted there is no specific mention of them not being affected by dangerous terrain tests. This also makes me wonder if there is any specific mention that they are immune to killing blow silly as this seems as that is not 'wounding' the model it simply says they are 'automatically slain' in a similar vein to items and spells which remove models although allowing for a ward save these of course are all magical though whereas killing blow is not in all cases.

Mid'ean
18-06-2012, 15:04
The Ethereal rule says they can only be wounded by spells, magical attacks, weapons and effects you could argue this is both the result of a spell and a magical effect so it's not quite so clear cut as you are making out presumably hence the question and could do with an FAQ.

So, using your argument here I cast a a +1 S onto a unit their attacks are now magical because it is the result of a spell??? Sorry. Doesn't work that way. Making the ground tougher to cross does not make the ground magical.



Also as has been noted there is no specific mention of them not being affected by dangerous terrain tests.

Even if all the terrain is dangerous. It's not magical. Can't wound


This also makes me wonder if there is any specific mention that they are immune to killing blow silly as this seems as that is not 'wounding' the model it simply says they are 'automatically slain' in a similar vein to items and spells which remove models although allowing for a ward save these of course are all magical though whereas killing blow is not in all cases.

You could try to argue this one I guess. But if you did it would be the last game we would play. Not saying you would, just saying in general. You could counter that since your attack is not magical there is no roll to wound.

Valaraukar
18-06-2012, 15:19
Indeed and I would not play either of these in the way I have outlined above as I tend to go mostly by intent not RAW but I think the wording in both cases is not sufficiently clear and could do with an FAQ for clarities sake as the arguments above can be made. Now for an attack it is very clear you either have a magical attack / weapon or you don't but for other types of damage it is not so simple. I agree that casting an augment does not provide magical attacks unless specifically stated, but what if the spell forced you to take a dangerous terrain test as the spell effect in what way is this not then a magical effect or damage from a spell? The case in question is not so clear cut as this as the effect of the spell is to make all terrain count as dangerous but this line of thinking opens the door to such arguments and does not appear to be entirely without merit IMO hence the need for an FAQ.

T10
18-06-2012, 19:35
Even if all the terrain is dangerous. It's not magical. Can't wound


Under normal circumstances Ethereal units are unaffected by dangerous terrain because they treat all terrain as open terrain. They are, however, not explicitly exempt from taking dangerous terrain tests.

Treating these tests as "attacks" seem a bit of a stretch, though I can appreciate the logic.

However, an etheral model may sometimes flee through an enemy unit, causing the fleeing model to make a dangerous terrain test that has nothing to do with terrain. Would the etheral model be immune to this test? What if he is flering through a unit of inherently magical models like daemons? Or a character with a magic sword? Or a magic bow? Assuming immuity to dangerous terrain tests on the grounds of magic/non-magic issue raises more questions.

On the matter of the Curse of Anraheir, ethereal models treat all terrain as Open Terrain, and the spell makes all terrain including Open Terrain count as dangerous terrain. Assuming they need to take dangerous terrain tests at all, ethereal creatures must test if they march, charge, flee, pursue or overrun, but not if they make a normal move.