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SlaaneshSlave
17-06-2012, 19:17
Do units with the Random Move rule have to move each turn?

page 74... "Models with Random Movement cannot declare charges, and are always moved in the Compulsory Moves sub-phase."

Does that mean they only move in Compulsory Moves phase? Or that they HAVE to move in the Compulsory Moves phase?

Melkanador
17-06-2012, 19:24
Isn´t ".. are always moved ..." clear enough?

underscore
17-06-2012, 19:36
Not really - that says when they should move in the turn, not whether they have to move every turn. i.e. it just means they can make a charge outside the charge sub-phase.

Melkanador
17-06-2012, 19:43
If you wouldn´t have to move them then it would be something like "... can be moved in the ...".

On the other hand we´re talking about GW rules, rules which have loopholes in them words cannot describe. ;)

underscore
17-06-2012, 19:51
Hehe. :)

I disagree though, I think the first half of that sentence indicates that the 'object' of the rule is the declaration of the charge and when that happens - the sentence construction would be different if it was talking about forcing random movement to always move (imo).

As you say though: this is GW we're talking about so if I'm wrong please someone correct me! I know the Doomwheel and HPA have to move their full amounts, for example, but then that's stated in their own special rules.

theunwantedbeing
17-06-2012, 20:10
No, they don't "have" to move.
Although if you do choose to move them, they move the amount rolled unless they hit something.

Chaos Undecided
17-06-2012, 20:38
Unless its a fanatic or out of control Mangler Squig which always move each turn of course (possibly a scraplauncher following a Groink result to not sure about that one)

Jschweitz
17-06-2012, 20:40
Ive seen a ton of battle reports where hellpits bump into the board edge or their own units to avoid moving too far, it makes me think you always must move.

underscore
17-06-2012, 20:51
Hellpits have a specific character rule about how they move, it's not just bog standard Random Movement.

The bearded one
17-06-2012, 20:57
If they are moved, they are "always moved in the Compulsory Moves sub-phase" which basically means that if they want to make some kind of movement, including a (potential) charge, it is done in the compulsory moves sub-phase. If they elect to make no moves, they just.. stand still.. I don't think you HAVE to move.

warplock
17-06-2012, 21:50
Lots of people posting that they have to move, but I can't see the logic behind that at all. 'they are always moved in the compulsory movement phase' is completely different from 'they are always moved, in the compulsory movement phase'. If they MUST move, I think they'd have made it a bit more clear!

T10
17-06-2012, 22:14
Hellpits have a specific character rule about how they move, it's not just bog standard Random Movement.

What do you mean by "a specific character rule"?

underscore
17-06-2012, 22:32
It's a special rule called called 'Shambling Horror', not the regular Random Movement.

AMWOOD co
17-06-2012, 22:35
It's a special rule called called 'Shambling Horror', not the regular Random Movement.

You might want to check p4 of the Skaven's FAQ.

underscore
17-06-2012, 22:44
Well how about that!

Lord Inquisitor
17-06-2012, 23:01
I agree that the "always moves" refers only to the phase they move in, but I have to say I'm uncomfortable with RM units not moving, if only because it is "compulsory movement." The idea of optional compulsory movement does not sit well with me!

TheOneHawk
17-06-2012, 23:20
^ what he said. Compulsory movement is compulsory. You do it every turn.

SlaaneshSlave
18-06-2012, 01:01
So.... If GW named the phase "Non-Distance Declaring" instead of "Compulsory" then they would not have to move? :p

Lorcryst
18-06-2012, 01:55
So.... If GW named the phase "Non-Distance Declaring" instead of "Compulsory" then they would not have to move? :p

That's nitpicking on a stellar level ...

I do agree with Lord Inquisitor tough, "compulsory" is clear enough even for a non-native-english speaker like me, and also very clear in the French edition ... think about Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, the whole problem with that is that you CAN'T control your obsession ...

Also, in the O&G book at least, units with Random Movement MUST move, and MUST move the full distance rolled unless they contact something of the way.

So, interesting discussion on the wording, but I'm afraid it's crystal clear :p

T10
18-06-2012, 05:54
The Random Movement rules instruct us to roll dice and move the unit accordingly. It does not offer an option not to roll.

It seems obvious to me the model MUST move. The only reason I can see for no doing so is if ALL special rules are somehow OPTIONAL by default, which makes Always Strikes Last and Stupidity very ineffective...

SlaaneshSlave
19-06-2012, 00:38
^^ This is a convincing argument. Armor saves are not optional. Attacks in CC are not optional. Only things explicitly stated as optional are.

I like it. Thanks.

Karolinen
24-06-2012, 16:18
When its about the Doomwheel the Skaven rulebook says: "The DW moves and manoeuvres like a chariot with a fex exeptions"
No fixed movement rate, instead a random 3D6 in the Compulsory part....

Lord Inquisitor
24-06-2012, 17:19
As with anything Skaven, you must check the FAQ to see what is going on. The Skaven book isn't a great example of anything except how not to make clear, concise rules.

Anyway, the doom wheel is a standard random movement unit with a few exceptions per the FAQ.

T10
24-06-2012, 19:11
I once (well, more than once) heard people say the Skaven book was made "8ed Ready".

Sure.

The Skaven FAQ is 6 pages long. It USED to be 13 pages to make it work in 7th ed.

T10
24-06-2012, 19:18
What is thiiiis? Double post!

Lord Inquisitor
24-06-2012, 21:41
I once (well, more than once) heard people say the Skaven book was made "8ed Ready".

Sure.

The Skaven FAQ is 6 pages long. It USED to be 13 pages to make it work in 7th ed.

The Skaven book wasn't ready for any edition. It was clearly a first book written by a new designer who hadn't got the idea that simple and understandable were qualities to be desired in a ruleset!

The bearded one
24-06-2012, 21:45
we are talking about skaven, their society and laws are explicitely designed to be sneaky, ambiguous, and to ensure backstabbing and scheming; what makes you think their gaming rules would be any different? :p

Lord Inquisitor
24-06-2012, 21:55
Ha! That train of thinking would get you into trouble.

"I know man-thing said 2000 points. But Skaven not like a fair-fair fight. I brought 3000!"

The bearded one
24-06-2012, 21:59
Ha! That train of thinking would get you into trouble.

"I know man-thing said 2000 points. But Skaven not like a fair-fair fight. I brought 3000!"

nono, that's not how they'd do it; they scheme and sneak inside the rules!

"Man-thing said 2000 points, yes-yes! But to make-create fair fight for skaven, we'll make models cheap-cheap, where when fairly priced it would actually be 3000! 2 point slaves, for extra numbers, yes-yes!"