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Dark_Mage99
18-06-2012, 23:27
This seems like such an expensive item for what it does, but it feels like it would be a lot of fun on a fighty character.

Of course there are drawbacks, but have any of you tried using it?

Do you have any success stories?

Lord Dan
18-06-2012, 23:35
Success stories involving the wizarding hat?

I assassinated my opponent's chaos lord running the wizarding hat because he didn't have any points left for magical protection.

Lord Inquisitor
18-06-2012, 23:38
The only place for the Wizard's Hat is in Storm of Magic. Then you can build a fighty Lord, possibly give him one of the funky Storm of Magic items in addition to his normal allowance. Stick him on a fulcrum and you've got a high-leadership mage with a 3+ ward and as much mundane armour as you can stick on him. Leadership is the most important factor for magical duels so it makes for a good fulcrum holder despite the low magic level. Better combat stats allow him to fight off monsters and combat characters. With any luck it will give you a Lore you don't already have, giving you access to more mega spells.

Rudra34
19-06-2012, 00:06
I bring it on a skaven warlord because it's fun to have access to the BRB loves with my rats. You want a success story? I was playing a friend of mine and his HE, and I rolled for lore of life. I ended up with earthblood and regroth, which made for an awesome combo. Slaves with a 5+ regen held him in place for most of the game, and when his white lions had the abom down to 1 wound, I brought him back up to full :)

The moral of the story is that life is absolutely broken in a skaven army.

Freman Bloodglaive
19-06-2012, 00:23
Which is probably why they made the lore random.

I haven't used it. However I like the idea of an armoured up Empire General with the hat. If nothing else, points for coolness.

Lord Dan
19-06-2012, 00:27
points for coolness.

Which in this case also means "points for opponent". ;)

Sexiest_hero
19-06-2012, 00:34
It's ok on a cheap lord in a non cut throat group.

Smithpod68
19-06-2012, 01:45
I've not tried it,but thought it would be interesting on a WE lord with the scout kindred. If you get Death or Fire you could raise some hell!

bluemage
19-06-2012, 02:18
I took it once on a tomb king in a small points game. Rolled up death against my ogre opponent and also got purple sun. That game went very well for me and purple sun did a lot of damage. Its probably not the most competitive item to take on your lord, but its a lot of fun and more useful than people give it credit for.

Tygre
19-06-2012, 03:45
My main opponent gives a Goblin Warboss the Wizarding Hat. He killed a lot of knights when he got gold magic. Last game though he suffered stupidity, when facing my Daemons (Khorne), and wandered out of his unit. A Bloodthirster ate him.

Sexiest_hero
19-06-2012, 03:55
How did he wander out of a unit?

Tygre
19-06-2012, 04:22
Stupidity. Failed his Ld test.

Lord Dan
19-06-2012, 06:42
I thought the unit would move with him. Am I mistaken?

Lance Tankmen
19-06-2012, 06:50
those moments when some one states something funny that happened in a game, but it wasnt legal...

Bunnahabhain
19-06-2012, 09:07
All these warm-bloods who make a fuss over access to a/a possibly different BRB law. When you control magic, rather than having it control you, you have been able to choose your laws for 5 5 generations 4 editions....

Tygre
19-06-2012, 09:40
One of those times when older players mix up the new rules with rules from previous editions. Previously stupid characters would stumble from his unit. I did not know stupidity effects the unit he is in aswell. My opponent did not know either, he was the one who said he stumbles out of the unit. At least I forgot to thunderstomp him, when I rolled poorly and he made his parry save.

Djekar
19-06-2012, 14:11
Let's see, I've run it on a Khorne Lord on a Juggernaut with a Great Weapon (I got Fire I think). I had a lot of fun, and surprisingly he lived through the battle. I know, it must have been a one in a million chance!:shifty:

I also run it semi-regularly on a Goblin Warboss since he's about the price of a level 2 wizard in elite armies and he generally is bunkered anyways. Probably the best spell he's ever got was Speed of Light. Squigs are pretty ridiculous at WS 10 and I 10.

Overall a fun, if not supremely competative, choice.

BigbyWolf
19-06-2012, 14:42
It's a fun item, not really a competitive choice. I think it's great and run an Ogre Tyrant around with one. Even made him a hat with "Wizzard" written on it.

IcedCrow
19-06-2012, 14:46
Not every game you play needs to be competitive (min/maxed)

BigbyWolf
19-06-2012, 15:26
Not every game you play needs to be competitive (min/maxed)

That's pretty much it.

Who would have thought that you could have fun playing a game.

Djekar
19-06-2012, 15:47
Who would have thought that you could have fun playing a game.

Fun? This is Madness!

Lord Inquisitor
19-06-2012, 16:46
Madness? This ... is... SPARTA!

The bearded one
19-06-2012, 16:57
Aaaaaaaaahhh! * falls into pit *







































we're going off topic, aren't we?

I don't think anyone in my local circle has ever even remotely considered the wizard hat. I mean.. 100 points to turn a lord into merely a level 2 wizard with a random lore and random spells, getting stupidity to boot? Dealbreaker.

Lord Inquisitor
19-06-2012, 17:15
Yeah, it's too much, isn't it? It's a shame because it would be an interesting item otherwise.

Magic levels for a fighty lord tend to be costed at around 35-40 points per level (Vampire Lords and WoC daemon prince, for example) and give or take it seems to be pretty consistent. The old books paid a premium for level 1 and level 3 because of the old magic system but it's pretty much the same now.

Calling it 40 points per level, the wizard's hat should be about 80 points without any downsides. Giving you a Lore you wouldn't normally be able to have is obviously a hidden advantage, but a random Lore really knocks that out of the water and then some. Stupidity is the final nail in the coffin.

As it is, it needs to be around 50-70 points, probably closer to 50 to be anything other than a joke item for a giggle*. Keeping it at 100 points possibly adding Loremaster would make it worthwhile?

*Again, it's a serious choice in Storm of Magic as I said earlier, which is the only time I've really used it. Plus you can use the spinner to determine your random lore!

Urgat
19-06-2012, 18:19
I don't think anyone in my local circle has ever even remotely considered the wizard hat. I mean.. 100 points to turn a lord into merely a level 2 wizard with a random lore and random spells, getting stupidity to boot? Dealbreaker.

Well, yeah, if we're talking about a chaos lord. A goblin warboss, on the other hand, in a 2500pts game? Naaaaaah, it's quite fine :p I actually think this item was made for goblin warbosses, in fact :D

Jericho
19-06-2012, 18:26
Yep I know a guy who runs a Goblin with this hat almost 100% of the time. He usually does quite well, as many of the armies without access to the 8 main lores really can get nasty when they roll the spell decks they want.

As for the more realistic price of the item, I'd say 70 points would be fair. I've taken the Book of Secrets/Spell Familiar on my Chaos Lord a few times and it can be pretty rowdy. As a plus, he has a 3++ save so when he blows up he doesn't care! :D

Askari
19-06-2012, 18:40
Had an opponent use the Wizard hat on a Tomb King against my Cavalry Empire.

He rolled Lore of Metal...

Sexiest_hero
19-06-2012, 20:01
Of all the lores I always hope for lore of metal. Giving a unit magic attacks or a armor save they shouldn't have is a glorious thing!

brightblade
19-06-2012, 21:00
Even made him a hat with "Wizzard" written on it.

tee hee. Love this..

as to the little stupid goblin wandering off... I love that too. Hilarious.

T10
19-06-2012, 21:07
It seems to me that the character with the hat will typically be a fighter jock with high Ld, which means the Stupidity part is less of a problem and the Immune to Psychology that comes with it makes for a greater benefit.

Darnok
19-06-2012, 21:24
I guess it is too expensive for anything but a "fun game". But in a bigger SoM game I could see me using it on a Saurus lord. Even with only mundane options he can be a CC beast, and being cold blooded will help a lot with the stupidity.

Urgat
19-06-2012, 23:06
as to the little stupid goblin wandering off... I love that too. Hilarious.

To be fair, that did happen a lot before, because of our peculiar miscast tables we used to have. I can totally understand why an O&G player would make the mistake. During 5th ed, forest goblin shamans were especially prone to walking out of units, for instance (wasn't even because of stupidity, but a special rule).

ScytheSwathe
20-06-2012, 07:20
I have a skaven warlord who uses it. He seems prone to miscast spectacularly, but sometimes he gets brutal spells to combine with skaven, so in short, he fits in perfectly with the rest of my army :D . Im waiting for the game he gets doom and darkness and the warpfire throwers kick in, or I find myself with both Withering and Wither in my army.....

Inevitable
20-06-2012, 21:54
I take it on a Goblin Warboss alot (relatively cheap). I've never had stupidity not be saved because I keep him near my general & BSB. Some games he does lackluster. The best game was Lore of Beasts, Wyssan's & Transformation. Threw 6 dices at Transformation after charging into combat, turned into a Great Fire Dragon. Made over 2x my points back for my lord, his hat, and his bunker of goblins. Other times just got various lores and did the adequete thing as a level 2. I've also tried it on a Night Goblin Great Shaman (level 3) which then reduces him to level 2, with 2 lores. But he gets to use his "magic mushroom" with the random lore. Not a bad tradeoff. Was completely not worth the points but was funny.

I've been tempted to run it in a tournament even if it would probably cost me the tournament. Just to see how well the army can perform.

Soundwave
21-06-2012, 12:40
I was thinking of seriously crowning my dark elf dreadlord on cold one with it .Hes stupid anyway ,saves me 35 points for a second sorceress and can still be kitted up to a 1+ armour save(thats allowed right?can still wear armour?)Mainly for a second insurance to help dispel in case my primary caster breaks concentration.But the random spells may come in handy although miscast would be fully hectic.....

Geep
21-06-2012, 12:56
I haven't used it yet (don't play Fantasy much these days) but I want to run the hat on a Black Orc Warboss. Very nice stat line, good armour access and the 'armed to da teef' rule which means I don't often give him magical combat weapons anyway. Best of all, I have the Grumlock and Gazbag model (Goblin Shaman on big Orc shoulders) which should be perfect for the character. Competitive- not really, but fun- should be.

Urgat
21-06-2012, 13:16
That's a fairly good idea in fact, Geep. Got Grumlok too, as well.

Skopey
21-06-2012, 15:36
was thinking of doing a similar thing with a Bretlord. Heavy armour, Shield, lance, Grail vow, Barding plus wizards hat. Anyone tried that combo? Any good?Or even a questing vow or knights vow. Giving him a morning star or great weapon.

Lord Dan
21-06-2012, 15:40
Sounds too expensive. What does he come out to after all that gear? 300-something points?

Urgat
21-06-2012, 16:44
People who would do something like this would do it for fun as it's clearly not an optimal build of doom, so I don't think they would mind the price.

IcedCrow
21-06-2012, 17:06
Correct, anyone using the wizard hat is not caring about points or being optimal.

Lord Inquisitor
21-06-2012, 17:14
As noted the only competitive applications for the wizard's hat:

- With very cheap (i.e. disposable) Lord choices
- With no access to BRB Lores at all
- In Storm of Magic

Hawthorne
21-06-2012, 20:01
Again for storm of magic. It's nice for armies like Skaven, Orcs and Goblins, etc. who are very limited any getting magic, if any, outside of their army lores so it usually offers a lot more utility. That being said it's a lot of points and very random and I'd rather get an emisary, truthsayer, or zoat or something.

In terms of actual use: I've used it twice both on Chaos Lords. One time I got Metal against beastmen which was not terribly helpful (I forget which spells I had but it was fairly underwhelming) the other time I got fire (I forget what I played against) which wasn't bad, he did about what you'd expect a level 2 fire mage to do while still being a chaos lord in combat; only issue there is I believe I could have been a level 1 fire mage for a lot cheaper by just choosing the item from the WoC book.

Skopey
22-06-2012, 08:31
Yeah Im a casual gamer and tbh im board of the dualing bret lord i usually have now. so was thinking of tooling him up with the hat for a bit of fun :) My prophetess/damsel's tend to always cast with IF early on and usually end up being sucked into the infernal realms so figured he couldnt do any worse :D I can picture him picking up her frilly hat and whispering to him self "i shall avenge thee...." placing it on his head. Standing hands on hips the sun setting behind him as he looks of, yonder. A tear rolling down his muddy, blood spattered face.

Urgat
22-06-2012, 10:23
...and then he's sucked into the infernal realms because he figured he couldn't do any worse :D So Jean the squire picks up the hat...

Dark Aly
22-06-2012, 11:13
I often use a Goblin warboss on a wolff with the hat- he's fairly good in combat against the units the wolf riders like and he's a wizard too.

Best things have happened for me when-

using shadow to reduce opponents strength, combined with the night gobbos nets made the gobbos T5 :)
using firebolt to destroy 5 hexwraiths that my blorcs couldn't hurt
and lastly...
miscasting after being stupid or squabbling for 3 turns in a row and destroying himself and his wolf riders :D

Sexiest_hero
22-06-2012, 22:43
I'm putting on on a dark elf dreadlord who I've dubbed the voodoo king. I'll then set him on a black dragon.