PDA

View Full Version : Coming back-- Needing a new army to erase old mistakes--Needing your help



Desalbert
05-07-2012, 19:40
Hey guys. 6th edition is here and it's been 2 or so years since I've played, but I'm being called back. I don't own the book yet.

I own several armies of varying quality (since I first began this game at 12 years old) and unfortunately for me, I'm a disabled gamer who stupidly chose 2 hoard armies back in the day. I have understood since then that horde armies have actually been one thing that has kept me AWAY from the game, since I cringe when thinking of set up times, squad movements etc, with shakey hands like mine. (My two main armies are Orks and IG)

So, this all said: I need a new army. An elite one. Now, when looking at what appeals to me, I'm usually quite moved by religious iconography and anything thematically involving a heavy tone of knighthood and heraldry. But I also prefer underdog armies.

Because of that I'm taking a look at Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle, but each has their own problem:

I hate space marines (This goes way back) and it *sounds like* Grey Knights are over popular and overpowered. Is this true? If not, I could get over my hate, perhaps.

Sisters of Battle, doesn't seem to have a legitimate codex, or any legitimate plastics to actually make the army 'affordable'... So they honestly don't seem like MUCH of a choice right now.

Can you sell me on either of these armies or rebuff my fears?

If not,

Then, I could always turn to religion thing to the darkside easily enough, and I take a look at Daemons and Chaos Space Marines... I'd prefer daemons because I dislike marines... -- are daemons still random in their battle-field entry? [always thought that was super cool, but how does it work with allies?]. Can they ally with IG? (if so, that makes for some fun converting opportunities and helps me start my armies faster, given my current IG.

Are Daemons a better choice, even if I prefer the aesthetics of the Sisters of Battle?

Is there an army I should consider that I haven't yet?

Thanks a great deal.

Signed,
returning 40k player wanting to "do it right" the second time around

Vepr
05-07-2012, 20:01
Might want to wait a bit for the new CSM codex. You could probably run Daemon and CSM force that could be rather elite in build. You also could run GK and just give them your own fluff. BT are rumored to be on the horizon also which might fit what you are looking for.

theJ
05-07-2012, 20:03
Hey guys. 6th edition is here and it's been 2 or so years since I've played, but I'm being called back. I don't own the book yet.
Then that is your first step. Not only will a thorough read help you play the game, it might also give you some inspiration :)


I hate space marines (This goes way back) and it *sounds like* Grey Knights are over popular and overpowered. Is this true? If not, I could get over my hate, perhaps.
Grey Knights are favoured because they're the easiest army to collect(a mere dozen models is enough), as well as giving a lot of raw power(also? pretty). They are also universally reviled for having stupidly unfair rules, and messing up the fluff bigtime. It should also be pointed out that many of the fluffchanges have made them more similiar to standard marines, to the point where, well, they ARE standard marines... BUT TOTALLY SPECIAL AND BEAUTIFUL AND BETTEREST!!!111


Sisters of Battle, doesn't seem to have a legitimate codex, or any legitimate plastics to actually make the army 'affordable'... So they honestly don't seem like MUCH of a choice right now.
The Sisters currently have a whitedex... which strangely enough can not be bought/attained through ANY alternate means. If you've got an Ipad, you can pray GW puts their 'dex up there through their fancy new digital distribution, if you don't... well... you're stuck with ebay or searching for an illegal copy off the 'net.
And no, they're really not affordable... and even if you get your hands on the whitedex, it really ain't that great - workable, sure, but no more than that...


Then, I could always turn to religion thing to the darkside easily enough, and I take a look at Daemons and Chaos Space Marines... I'd prefer daemons because I dislike marines... -- are daemons still random in their battle-field entry? [always thought that was super cool, but how does it work with allies?]. Can they ally with IG? (if so, that makes for some fun converting opportunities and helps me start my armies faster, given my current IG.
Got a lot better news for you on that front. YES, the Daemons still have semi-random, deepstriking deployment, and they're due for a model wave soon - likely next month in fact. Speaking of next month, that is also when Chaos Marines are due for their new codex - the first for 6th edition.
Both armies can ally with guard, and are in fact "good enough friends" to not mess each other up (but not good enough friends to buff one another).


Are Daemons a better choice, even if I prefer the aesthetics of the Sisters of Battle?
Neither of the armies are considered particularly competitive, if that's what you mean.


Is there an army I should consider that I haven't yet?
Whichever one makes you happy, mate :)
With your love for knightly and religious stuff, marines would probably fit quite well, tbh. Dark Angel or Black Templar in particular... it's a shame you don't like them...

In short, my advice would be to buy the BADAB and peruse it for a couple weeks til' the Chaos Marine & Daemon stuff starts dropping in, then see what you think of them.

Dreadknight1994
05-07-2012, 20:04
Chaos marines can do a very religous army (word bearers)

Reinholt
05-07-2012, 20:05
My thoughts, in descending order:

Starting assumption: find the army closest to the triple combination of elite, religious, and non-marine. I am also going to ignore the "underdog" constraint, because with the GW release schedule, all armies will cycle through periods of powerful to average to weak to powerful again as the codices roll through each version or two of the game. So underdog now is favorite later and vice-versa.

1 - Your first limiting condition should be hordes or high model count. If you have a condition that is going to make playing such armies nigh-impossible, then no matter how much you like them, avoid them. Otherwise "getting frustrated and quitting, or even if not frustrated, taking 26 hours to set up preventing the game" are going to happen. Like anything else in life, eliminate the stuff that is just not feasible first.

This should bounce: Orks, Nids, IG (barring, perhaps, some super specific builds)

2 - Eliminate armies that will cause you to dislike your own army, even if they fill other necessary (but not sufficient) conditions.

This should bounce: Space Marines (of all flavors), Grey Knights (they are more marine than marine, so if you dislike marines it will only be amplified here), and Chaos Space Marines, if you dislike all marines.

3 - Eliminate armies with lots of tiny fiddly bits or small things that break, which can be just as bad as hordes if you shake (I have a friend with the same problem).

This should bounce: Dark Eldar.

So after all of that, we are down to theme, and left with the following armies:

Daemons, Eldar, Necrons, Sisters, Tau.

So with that in mind, my last piece of advice would be this:

Sit down, write out / make notes about potential background for each one, look at all the models and see which ones you enjoy the most, and kick around some army construction ideas for each side. After that, pick the one you like the most. All of those will be viable choices in this context. Certainly if you like religious themes, the Daemons and the Sisters should have some weight on that front. Daemons are "allies of convenience" with guard, which means that you can certainly put together working combinations there; a mostly daemon (to keep model count down) with a small cohort of cultists (IG) army is possible, if that is what you are thinking.

Desalbert
05-07-2012, 20:22
Thank you for such detailed thoughts you guys, this has been illluminating already. I think you're right to suggest I pick the book up first and glean inspiration from it. That will be step one.

Reinholt, Thank you for going through my post so meticulously. I follow you dead-on with your assessments of armies except perhaps that I wouldn't cut Dark Eldar out too fast since I do like their aesthetic quite a bit when glancing at their model releases.

Moving on with your assesment though, which I generally agree with, I'll take out Necrons since my main gaming friend plays them and nids primarily. that leaves Daemons, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Sisters and Tau.

I'll approach the new rulebook from that standpoint.

Charistoph
05-07-2012, 21:15
Might I suggest going off the reservation a little bit?

In Fantasy, there are the Dark Elves who have a priesthood who worship Khaine, the god of death, war, murder, etc. Dark Eldar are Dark Elves in space. So, make a Dark Eldar cult who seeks to resurrect Khaine in his full glory to spank Slaanesh. That gives you Dark Eldar as your Primary.

Now what cult wouldn't feel secure having their god around, enter Eldar Allies with the Avatar of Khaine as the HQ and either Rangers or appropriately colored Dire Avengers as the base.

OR use Khorne Daemons as allies, but get some models done up with a more suave scheme (Avatar with Wings as a Bloodthirster, perhaps?) to give them a united feel.

This solves a lot of your problems and get some of what you want in to your list.