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Sithlord
07-07-2012, 07:13
via frontline gaming
http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2012/07/06/forgeworld-imperial-armor-aeronautica-and-a-rumor/


"a regular of ours talked to GW asking if he could use Forgeworld in tournaments and he told us he was told that YES HE COULD, and that a FAQ for all of the Forgeworld stuff would be released by Games Workshop (not Forgeworld) giving all the pertinent rules to allow them in regular play.

Also, he told us that Forgeworld will be releasing codices that are official and will explore some of the more niche aspects of the GW universe (the example given was a Salamanders Codex). He also said that all Forgeworld product will be sold in GW stores."

well looks like we know the exact one would be death korps of krieg and elysian drop troops (with the former one is obvious, because their last 5th edition pdf are gone from forgeworld download section) . For the future? Salamander codex? Kroot mercenaries? Eldar Corsair? Harlequins? Who knows? What's currently remain unknown is if this forgeworld codices are Digital products or printed ones (my money being on the former)

LoreDraconis
07-07-2012, 07:24
Can haz Iron Hands finally? Aw yeah!! :chrome:

Baaltor
07-07-2012, 07:28
I'm hoping against hope that this will have a hand in the ending of half the updated armies being marines.

Gustovic
07-07-2012, 07:31
This is one of the most exciting and beautiful news I ever received from FW. Thank you!!!

Dr Zoidberg
07-07-2012, 07:31
I thought FW already had official codices that allowed them to be used in normal play.... It's called Imperial Armour and has this 40K stamp in them.

What this strikes me as is GW looking to make cash out of that (diminishing) crowd who for whatever reason don't accept IA units as legitimate; even though they're made by the same company and it is specifically stated that they can be used ink regular 40K games. What more do some people want?!

That said, a full, FW-produced Krieg codex does make me feel all warm and gooey on the inside.

theJ
07-07-2012, 07:34
Awesome if true.

Johnnya10
07-07-2012, 07:37
Sweet. Just What we needed to hear. Kills the argument against FW once and for all.

Poncho160
07-07-2012, 08:01
Hope this profect dosen't interfere with the release of ani IA books. Love IA books, they are one of the better series of books GW produces. Instead of FW making codexes, GW should up their game and make books the quality of the IA series.

Spider-pope
07-07-2012, 08:01
Groovy. Hopefully they will be priced the same as a standard Codex so that i can enjoy some forgeworldy goodness without having to fork out 50+

Dangersaurus
07-07-2012, 08:04
Sweet. Just What we needed to hear. Kills the argument against FW once and for all.

That's optimistic.

Corsair Princess
07-07-2012, 08:07
This is great news

BEARO
07-07-2012, 08:14
Does this mean GW will integrate some FW rules into the current models?
For example, FW has the Eldar flyers with Vector Dancer. Does that GW will make things consistent and give it to the DE Razorwing and Voidraven?

Cypherxv
07-07-2012, 08:28
Believe it when I see it. Having said that, I can't wait. I want to start a charcharodon army.

MarikLaw
07-07-2012, 08:30
If this is true, I want to see FW redo the Chaos Renegades into something a little more unique than "Chaos-y Imperial Guard."

Also, Genestealer Cults and Kroot Tribal/Mercenary Armies please and thank you.

lantzkev
07-07-2012, 08:30
With any luck this means they are setting up distribution within the states, if not some production and currency conversion will be less of a issue.

eldargal
07-07-2012, 08:33
The idea of FW codices on their own is plausible enough, as is GW FAQing them so there is no doubt on their official status. However, mixed in with rumorus of an American production facility and FW in every GW store make me doubt the veracity of the rumours. FW have said over and over that producing FW kits in America is not viable as it requires make even more copies of the moulds and shipping them out to Memphis or wherever the GW factory is at considerable cost. Likewise they don't have FW in every GW store because they don't have the production capacity to manage it. These things can change, of course, maybe GW is subsidising it or something. But until we get some official word I'm highly sceptical of everything bar the GW FAQ.

Poncho160
07-07-2012, 08:38
What is the status of Forgeworld? I have never been able to figure it out. Are they their own company that just produces GW related items? Are they GW? A sister company to GW? If anyone has the answer to the question, it would be apprieciated. :)

lantzkev
07-07-2012, 08:38
There's a clear desire, and it's not like GW doesn't have a interest in seeing their property grow in every way possible.

eldargal
07-07-2012, 08:41
FW is a division of GW, they are the same company.

What is the status of Forgeworld? I have never been able to figure it out. Are they their own company that just produces GW related items? Are they GW? A sister company to GW? If anyone has the answer to the question, it would be apprieciated. :)

Rick Blaine
07-07-2012, 08:49
If they were actually planning to do this, the most obvious place to state that FW is official would be the new rulebook. Oh snap, it's not there. Filthy, dirty lies.

jackman
07-07-2012, 08:51
SALAMANDERS,SALAMANDERS,SALAMANDERS, please let it be them .They are one of my favourites and so need a dex !

blameless
07-07-2012, 08:58
Such exciting news! hope this is legit... :D

Hendarion
07-07-2012, 10:10
The only things these Codices will bring are:
1) More Marine Imperial Codices with more tools
2) More ppl crying about (1)
3) More Codices not being updated properly over time when starting to be out-dated
4) More Codices that require FAQs
5) More ppl crying about (3) and (4)

Demiurg
07-07-2012, 10:19
The only things these Codices will bring are:
1) More Marine Imperial Codices with more tools
2) More ppl crying about (1)
3) More Codices not being updated properly over time when starting to be out-dated
4) More Codices that require FAQs
5) More ppl crying about (3) and (4)

As long as one of those Codexes was Mechanicus I really wouldn't care.

Sithlord
07-07-2012, 10:34
But I think it's pretty much true to the senses of current forgeworld books (not the old ones), the new book (aeronautica) PLUS the update for IA Apoc 2nd edition , has some labels of warhammer 40k (can be use in normal games, no need for opponent consent, but politely tell them what they are actually do)

lantzkev
07-07-2012, 10:55
well there's no mention of anything being official or not, even their own books =P

They do however mention Forge World Campaign systems to use on page 383 specifically with your 40k... to make perfect narrative campaigns etc. not to mention quite a few pictures that have forgeworld models in them...

Dangersaurus
07-07-2012, 11:13
IA11 has a note along with the introduction that units bearing the 40k stamp are "...intended to be used in 'standard' games of Warhammer 40,000, within the usual limitations of the Codex selection and force organisation charts. As with all our models these should be considered 'official', but owing to the fact they may be unknown to your opponent, it's best to make sure they are happy to play a game using Forge World models before you start."

Emphasis mine. It can't get clearer than that. Plus there's the "Warhammer 40,000 Expansion" logo that sits on the front cover of every IA since 4 or 5. If that's not enough for some people, adding the words codex to the cover won't change the situation one bit.

Rick Blaine
07-07-2012, 11:39
IA11 has a note along with the introduction that units bearing the 40k stamp are "...intended to be used in 'standard' games of Warhammer 40,000, within the usual limitations of the Codex selection and force organisation charts. As with all our models these should be considered 'official', but owing to the fact they may be unknown to your opponent, it's best to make sure they are happy to play a game using Forge World models before you start."

Emphasis mine.

I just moved the Bold tag a bit and now it emphasizes the exact opposite. Just pointing that out.

eldargal
07-07-2012, 11:42
Actually, moving the bold in no way emphasises that the rules are not official, which would be exact opposite of what he says. Also you have to make sure your opponent is happy to play a game using any rules, you can't force them to play a game against Grey Knights if they do not wish to. You can't force someone to play Storm of Magic/Planetstrike/Cities of Death/Apocalypse if they don't want to either, and those books are all published by GW proper.

Dr Zoidberg
07-07-2012, 11:43
While it might be polite to ask your opponent first, that doesn't negate the fact that 40K stamped FW models are official and intended to be used in standard games.

And frankly, the "I've never played against that unit before nor seen the rules" excuse just doesn't cut it as far as Im concerned. If that was a legitimate excuse, then I'm expect to be able to deploy it every time a new opponent pulls out an army or unit I've never played before.

Hendarion
07-07-2012, 11:49
And frankly, the "I've never played against that unit before nor seen the rules" excuse just doesn't cut it as far as Im concerned. If that was a legitimate excuse, then I'm expect to be able to deploy it every time a new opponent pulls out an army or unit I've never played before.
Or in my case would mean I wouldn't play against anything but (Dark)Eldar and Space Marines, because my knowledge about other books is basically nearly non-existing. If my local GW-store would (and so they do) tell me I can't use some FW-models in their "mini-tournaments", because others might not know the unit's rules, I wonder why others are allowed to field Necrons, Space Wolves or Orks, because I don't know their rules either. Their rules are in books, I am able to buy and read them. So may my opponents. Hell, they may even read MY book if they wanted to know whats going on with that stuff. But... meh... my local GW-store still refuses in these situations. Tells a lot I think.

zoggin-eck
07-07-2012, 12:48
Sounds cool, I hope it's true. Any new codex is welcome to me. As said, it'll be sweet if they focus on the lesser known, "fan favourite" armies.

The idea of them being in the stores sounds odd. Some stores are already pushing it with the amount of shelf space/amount of items carried. Perhaps the idea is just to keep the books, though, with the option of course to order the models? GW stores already keep the Forgeworld/Warhammer Forge books anyway.

Idaan
07-07-2012, 13:07
I just moved the Bold tag a bit and now it emphasizes the exact opposite. Just pointing that out.
I can be unhappy about someone's figs being painted badly, or the player wearing a fedora indoors, and refuse to play with them. Same thing.

Rick Blaine
07-07-2012, 13:17
I can be unhappy about someone's figs being painted badly, or the player wearing a fedora indoors, and refuse to play with them. Same thing.

Yeah, anyone can refuse a game for any reason, but you don't see a warning to make sure your opponent is happy with the units you're taking in a regular GW codex. It is not the same.

All Cing Eye
07-07-2012, 13:19
While a great idea for introducing more armies (hopefully more xenos ones) I hope they don't do full codexes but rather mini-dex's that contain enough units to make an allied force (say 1 each of HQ, Elite, Troops, FA, HS)

That way the majority of the forces would be from a GW codex, with fluffy specific units being allied to it.

TimLeeson
07-07-2012, 13:47
Would be nice if this was true and lead to codex books for minor-xenos stuff, sadly I think that's too awesome to happen though.

Mr. Ultra
07-07-2012, 14:12
Great news! I can see Kroot armies in the horizon...

Theis
07-07-2012, 14:36
Believe it when I see it, and not before. What everyone but Eldargal seems to be ignoring is the huge capital investment that would have to be made in order for this to come to pass.

Also, given GW's snafu with just getting the 6th edition books where they were supposed to be in a timely fashion points toward internal issues, financial, managerial, or logistical, that would act counter to this.

I suspect Reecius's friend got hold of a staffer that's more a FW fanboy than anything else.

Skepticism aside, I'd be happy to see it come to pass, for a multitude of reasons. I just don't see it being very likely.

Starchild
07-07-2012, 15:12
@eldargal: After touring the GW Memphis factory I can imagine how FW casting would be possible. There was only one pewter kiln and two disc metal casting units to handle all the metal model demand for USA and Canada. They must have had the pewter casting going nonstop during production hours. The process is actually very fast, although some care had to be taken to ensure the temperature in the crucible was just right. Too cool and the castings were misshapen. Too hot and the castings did damage to the disc molds.

The key here is the transition to Finecast. I imagine much of the equipment used to produce Finecast models can be used to cast Forgeworld models as well. Either FW is going to adopt Citadel resin, or FW resin will be cast at GW factories using dedicated machinery.

I'd like to hope for lower prices on FW if this happens but something tells me the Warp will freeze over first. :(

eldargal
07-07-2012, 15:34
Well, I'm just going by what FW said in response to questions about a North American FW production facility on their facebook site months ago. I could maybe see that happening if GW decided to up their budget or something, I still don't see them stocking FW stuff in every store beyond a token selection (ie a few Space Marine and IG kits). I still think it is unlikely. FW is already made at GW facilities (well, facility, Lenton) utilising some of the same equipment used for Finecast. But their vehicle models and larger kits, the bulk of their range, is not made using those techniques.

Skaven13
07-07-2012, 16:02
ALL FW products? Pretty doubtful just due to space limitations. I can believe all the books for sure, but product? Including large products? Hard to believe. I am guessing the person in the original post might have been speaking in context of the books.

As far as production costs, yes it would require a huge shift in finances. I am not sure they would need to ship molds over to the States, it might be cheaper just to send the designs over and have them designed and constructed in the States. At least for larger products. For a lot of the smaller products, like Eldargal said they probably already have the capability to do that thanks to Finecast. And FW has been using material similar (if not the same) to Finecast for quite some time now.

Also I am not sure using the 40K launch to show there are problems with financial. managerial or logistical issues would seek to counter this rumor...? If anything, I don't believe it is a fair comparison. You are comparing a much anticipated, much sought-after rulebook for an entire rules system, used by just about every player, to smaller codex releases that may affect a few players out of that group. Given the scope of the release, logistically you are comparing apples to oranges here. Not nearly the same logistical issues to consider. The 40K rulebook was a huge release with numerous logistical factors to consider. These codexex, not nearly so much.

logan054
07-07-2012, 16:59
I hope this is true and actually extends to warhammer forge as well, personally (as more of a warhammer player) I prefer a lot of warhammer forge stuff, tamurkhan is without doubt my favourite warhammer book and it would very cool if the chaos host became a legal option simply because that is the chaos army that I was introduced to when I started the hobby! (I know a little OT, meh). With 6th ed and all the pictures of FW stuff I have seen in more recent white dwarfs making them more acceptable to the public doesn't seem like that much of a stretch, extra marine codex's from forgeworld don't seem like that much of a stretch either, would they even need to wrote a whole new codex for them? maybe they would simple have a like a armies of the imperium codex with a few pages of fluff and then either rules to change marines into different chapters by exchanging chapter tactics for x or special some new special characters.

Hendarion
07-07-2012, 18:14
Well, maybe they didn't mean the products would be stored physically in the stores, but that you can order them there. As far as I know, some stores already do that, but I don't think ours do - you still need to pay with Credit Card here, 15% shipping. Both of these facts render a lot of the targeted customers (Children) unable to purchase these products. At least this is the target-market of GW, maybe they want to shift the target-market of Forge World items towards that too.

WordBearer
07-07-2012, 18:41
Er... haven't... the past five or six Imperial Armor books all stated they were official 40k expansions? I mean, it's right there in the book, they mark which stuff is legal for normal games of 40k, which ones are Apocalypse-only, and so forth.

Dangersaurus
07-07-2012, 18:47
I just moved the Bold tag a bit and now it emphasizes the exact opposite. Just pointing that out.

I appreciate you're being contrary, but like I said, "If that's not enough for some people, adding the words codex to the cover won't change the situation one bit."

Sami
07-07-2012, 18:48
Er... haven't... the past five or six Imperial Armor books all stated they were official 40k expansions? I mean, it's right there in the book, they mark which stuff is legal for normal games of 40k, which ones are Apocalypse-only, and so forth.

An expansion is not a codex.

LoreDraconis
07-07-2012, 18:57
An expansion is not a codex.

So StormTalons are illegal in normal games, right?

yabbadabba
07-07-2012, 19:03
If this is true, it will indicate a major change in business philosophy at GW as well as a maturing of the FW business structure. Personally, while the constant debates over FW are amusing, I applaud anything that opens up people's mindsets to the possibilities in this setting.

otakuzoku
07-07-2012, 19:26
I dont think it would be to much of a stretch to get Books and small forge world kits and bits in to most shops, case in point the fine cast Broadside and HQ parts. so doors for vehicles and tank turrets, upgrade other very popular upgrade bits in store. and the others being web ordered on the terminals.

any way i hope this is true roll on codex far sight enclave !

logan054
07-07-2012, 19:57
I would be very happy if I could order FW kits to store for free, I would assume that would mean a price rise :( wouldn't be so bad if in the end it worked out cheaper!


If this is true, it will indicate a major change in business philosophy at GW as well as a maturing of the FW business structure. Personally, while the constant debates over FW are amusing, I applaud anything that opens up people's mindsets to the possibilities in this setting.

I think we have seen evidence of a change of attitude for a while now

WordBearer
07-07-2012, 20:08
An expansion is not a codex.By virtue of not being in codex format, you're correct.

It doesn't mean they're not official.

Sildani
07-07-2012, 20:10
In my opinion, there are two things that really prevent FW models and rules from being widely accepted: 1) GW proper have never proclaimed at the top of their augmented lungs "FW products are perfectly legal and Chapter Approved for ALL games." 2) Those rules for those models and army lists are neither readily available or widely read.

By that last, I mean that if I've never played against a Blood Angels player, I can probably find a store-use copy of the Codex in my FLGS or my local GW, run down the rules, and make a decision about whether I want to play that army in relatively short order. If my opponent brings a Storm Talon or Bommer, there's a PDF on GW's website with those rules. If I feel my opponent's cheating or simply incorrect about a rule, I can look it up pretty easily.

With FW stuff, I can't do any of that. Their experimental rules which are free and easily available often bear little resemblance to the "final" rules you only find in the books. Those books are EXPENSIVE, and only bought by the people who will use the models within, or those who simply like the book, which are the minority of the gamer pool. I've never seen a store-use IA book, and in fact I've only seen the GW store stock a few of them, all shrink-wrapped. The opponent who wants to use the models SHOULD bring to book along so his/her opponent can review it, but it's big, heavy, and did i mention EXPENSIVE, so he/she may well leave it home and bring an extract of the rules, or worse simply say they will explain the rules as the game progresses. Most possible opponents would (understandably) look at this narrowly.

Finally, you can only buy FW stuff from FW. Can't order it from your local stockist, and you have to have a credit card. You also need to pay a large shipping (tax)fee, then wait for it to be delivered.

Thus, if FW makes Codicies that are much more in line with GW's, at about the same price point and, perhaps most importantly, with the same availability, all to the good as far as I'm concerned.

TL;DR: GW needs to proclaim official sanction of FW rules and those rules need to be widely and cheaply available in order for widespread FW model use to become practicable.

WordBearer
07-07-2012, 20:13
TL;DR: GW needs to proclaim official sanction of FW rulesEvery White Dwarf has an ad for Forgeworld releases in it. Every Forgeworld book has a Games Workshop logo on it. Most more recent Forgeworld books have a specific call-out in the text saying they're official rules.

So really, what more are you asking for here?

Sildani
07-07-2012, 20:30
Jervis (or somebody in GW) saying "FW's okay to use in games." Period. No "make sure your opponent's happy about that first", no "get opponent's permission first", none of it. It needs to be explicitly stated with no caveats at ALL.

Please note, I'm okay with FW stuff, for I know its secret: most of it's overpriced and underpowered, with a couple exceptions. But I'm not representative of most players, who seem to take their measure of what's acceptable from tournament organizers, and THEY don't allow FW, probably from the same standpoint I made above: the rules aren't widely available, for a reasonable cost, and GW's encouragement of FW models always carries a proviso.

WordBearer
07-07-2012, 20:36
The "opponent's permission" language disappeared years ago. That's why I don't quite get the sentiment. There's no daylight between Forgeworld and GW these days.

Voss
07-07-2012, 20:39
The idea of FW codices on their own is plausible enough, as is GW FAQing them so there is no doubt on their official status. However, mixed in with rumorus of an American production facility and FW in every GW store make me doubt the veracity of the rumours. FW have said over and over that producing FW kits in America is not viable as it requires make even more copies of the moulds and shipping them out to Memphis or wherever the GW factory is at considerable cost. Likewise they don't have FW in every GW store because they don't have the production capacity to manage it. These things can change, of course, maybe GW is subsidising it or something. But until we get some official word I'm highly sceptical of everything bar the GW FAQ.
I agree. They don't really produce the kind of volume that would make another production facility worthwhile (and it would be a huge and costly venture to do so), and frankly most of the GW stores I've seen over the years simply don't have the room for even a sample of FW products. They're stuffed to the gills as is.

yabbadabba
07-07-2012, 20:41
So really, what more are you asking for here? Are FW rules allowed at GW Tournaments?

Tastyfish
07-07-2012, 20:42
Every White Dwarf has an ad for Forgeworld releases in it. Every Forgeworld book has a Games Workshop logo on it. Most more recent Forgeworld books have a specific call-out in the text saying they're official rules.

So really, what more are you asking for here?

Throne of skulls tournament rules including them would be the final hurdle.

Hendarion
07-07-2012, 20:44
The "opponent's permission" language disappeared years ago. That's why I don't quite get the sentiment. There's no daylight between Forgeworld and GW these days.
The problem is that even if it doesn't require permission, each player himself may decide what he wants to play against and what not. And many ppl refuse FW. Either because they don't know it, believe it to be overpowered (based on specific examples), feel the Codices suffer from the expansions or they simply don't want.
All of these are valid points. I do accept ForgeWorld stuff, but I'm not sure I would like to see everything (there are cheap Land Raider versions which I really can't support with big fun). But same way I refused to play some tank-company-IG-players, because it wasn't fun to be tabled in turn 2. No need to try again, I simply said: "no, thanks" and went home.

Sildani
07-07-2012, 20:53
WordBearer: the rules still say to make sure your opponent's okay with it, though, correct?

The Night Spinner, Storm Talon etc. don't have that codecil. They were introduced, proclaimed "Official" or "Jervis Tested/Chapter Approved" or whatever, and immediately became part of that army's Codex. There wasn't anything there about an opponent's desires or lack thereof, and perhaps most importantly, those rules were available immediately on GW's website, for free. And still are.

I understand what you're saying, but most people have a problem with playing with models that have hard-to-obtain rules they can't review ahead of time. So they'll probably say "no".

WordBearer
07-07-2012, 20:55
WordBearer: the rules still say to make sure your opponent's okay with it, though, correct?I don't have a book in front of me as I'm not at home right now, but I'm rather sure they've dropped that entirely.

Setsunakai
07-07-2012, 21:19
As with all our models these should be considered ‘official’, but owing to the fact that they may be unknown to your opponent, it’s best to make sure they are happy to play a game using Forge World models before you start. - from the FW tauupdate.pdf put up 3ish months ago

is the pertinent text

although i wish they'd put up a huge banner on the GW main page that said "Forge World is official!" to eliminate all doubts

Dangersaurus
07-07-2012, 21:33
although i wish they'd put up a huge banner on the GW main page that said "Forge World is official!" to eliminate all doubts

It still won't be enough. At least until those players who have a bone to pick with FW cycle out of the hobby.

Sami
07-07-2012, 21:53
By virtue of not being in codex format, you're correct.

It doesn't mean they're not official.

I didn't say that, so please don't put words in my mouth.

Imperial Armour books are not codexes, but expansions/campaigns. They include brand new army lists, new units for multiple armies, often upgrades for existing units in multiple armies, and even include some brand new missions to try (relevant to the campaign). A codex on the other hand is just a stand-alone army list. So, FW making codexes is not the same as Imperial Armour books being "legal" (note: I am a big FW supporter when it comes to allowing this stuff in the game). I will be interested to see if GW proper will be endorsing the Imperial Armour campaign books/lists, or whether it will just be these new Forge World codexes.

To be honest, if FW started releasing pure codexes then it might help people get over the "OMG FORGEWORLD NOOO" hate. A lot of people still (wrongly) associate Forge World with Apocalypse stuff, and it doesn't help that the IA books pretty much always include units suitable for that expansion too. By releasing focused books for a single army designed to work with the main game/missions, they should hopefully find more acceptance.

Unless of course they just do yet more back-to-back Imperial books, in which case they can go swivel. One of these days there might be a FW campaign based around the conflict of two xenos armies... ahahahaha ;)

Hendarion
07-07-2012, 21:54
Whoever refuses to play against Forge World models is not refusing because they aren't official, but using that as an excuse. So saying that these things are official will not change the fact that ppl will refuse to play against such lists/models. Just the excuse will change - most likely to: "They are unbalanced." (but so are Grey Knights and Necrons now)

LoreDraconis
07-07-2012, 22:29
It's ok. Natural selection will soon take care of Forgeworld naysayers. Pretty soon they'll have noone left to play against.

kaimarion
07-07-2012, 23:28
Was talking to the manager at a local GW today and he mentioned something about being able to get FW models from some of the larger stores. This came up in conversation after I ask him whether I could pre-order the new FW book through the store.

otakuzoku
07-07-2012, 23:49
the contents looks a little lack luster for me to get it the only tau thing not in imperial Armour Apocalypse 1 or 2 is the barracuda but i have the stats for that in the main Apocalypse book. with each Structure Point being equivalent to 3 Hull Points. is not much i need to know.

i wonder if this means with 6th ed codex we will get the FW standard games stuff already put in the main codex. will save lugging round a total of 5 hard back books.

Sami
08-07-2012, 00:02
If they did that, then they would lose the sales from 5 hard back books ;)

Bartali
08-07-2012, 00:39
If they were actually planning to do this, the most obvious place to state that FW is official would be the new rulebook. Oh snap, it's not there. Filthy, dirty lies.

If GW ever planned to get rid of the ambiguity surrounding FW, they should of done it in the 6th rulebook

MarikLaw
08-07-2012, 00:55
To address a lot of the concerns about the distribution side of this rumour, there has been a rumour floating around for some time now that GW was going to carry select Forge World kits. Forge World has also been updating some of their kits to a production method looking strikingly like Games-Workshop's Finecast line, right down to the packaging, which gives even more credence to these rumours.

While I doubt GW stores will carry all FW products, I can see them carrying the more popular ones or, at the very least, I can see FW already starting to lay the foundation for other distribution centers around the world.

As for the FW-made official Codex books, this seems very believable. In my opinion GW seems to be at the comfort threshold for the development of their three major franchises (40k, Fantasy, LotR) which would mean that there isn't much room for addition to what is already there. Cue Forge World. Forge World has their own development team for rules, meaning that they can take on more releases in terms of new armies or alterations of existing armies. It would also mean another outlet for sales for Forge World and more opportunities for new models apart from just the Imperial Armour books.

Starchild
08-07-2012, 01:13
My opinion: There's nothing truly game-breaking about Forgeworld units.

Take the Eldar Shadow Spectres for example. They might be able to take out a vehicle or two before they get torn up in melee.

Another example is the Forgeworld Imperial Guard tanks and self-propelled guns. If I understand correctly they don't offer much more than what the IG get in their codex, so no big deal. If anything Apocalypse games are better when IG players bring the other superheavy options instead of just Baneblades and Shadowswords.

That said, FW did acquire a reputation for game-breaking units, but the latest IA books have put an end to that from what I can see.

Daemonia
08-07-2012, 01:49
Part of me is happy for this...being able to use the proper Death Korps army list at tournaments and other events. I don't mind using the regular Guard codex but it'd make me feel like a special snowflake to use the big boy rules. I can't see how having an extra point of WS on my Guardsmen and being able to take Mole Launchers will cause the sky to fall on everyone's head.

Part of me is unhappy for this...because I'm convinced GW will markup all Forge World things when they sell them here in Australia. The whole reason I even indulged in Death Korps models was because they were marginally more expensive ($10 or so per kit if I recall) than what normal Guardsmen are in Australia. If they crank their FW prices up to match the norm, I doubt I'd be able to afford all the new shinies they would make.

Starchild
08-07-2012, 02:20
If anything, the Deathcorp Siege list is more difficult to play than the standard IG list in the absence of Valkyries, Vendettas, etc. It's a style that doesn't suit everybody. That's another good example of a FW army list that's well balanced and fair.

Theis
08-07-2012, 02:48
Yep, the tyrant's legion list, the siegebreaker assault list, etc. Seem like a lot of fun, but hardly hyper competitive. Then again, I was analyzing them from a 5th edition perspective. Going to have to look them over again as I internalize 6th.

Rated_lexxx
08-07-2012, 03:34
This would be great news. One of the main reasons I don't order forgeworld is he price of shipping

MarikLaw
08-07-2012, 04:16
This would be great news. One of the main reasons I don't order forgeworld is he price of shipping

I love Forge World and do occasionally order from them, but this is the very reason I don't order from them a lot more than I do. At least with GW any order over $75 has free shipping on it. I'd kill if Forge World could to that as well.

march10k
08-07-2012, 04:21
All of this fighting over whether FW is allowed or not reminds me of GW's schizophrenia. FW says "this stuff is legit. You can use it without your opponent's permission." (um, yeah, he can choose not to play against you for any reason, whether it's two hydras and an unkillable DE lord or a thunderhawk or your poor hygiene) Then GW says "Well, maybe not in certain of our tournaments," without affirming FW's claim to legitimacy. It's as if they want to have their cake and eat it, too.

Starchild
08-07-2012, 05:25
@MarikLaw: I only order from Forgeworld when they offer their free shipping for Candlemas, usually starting the first week of December. ;)

Voss
08-07-2012, 06:15
As with all our models these should be considered ‘official’, but owing to the fact that they may be unknown to your opponent, it’s best to make sure they are happy to play a game using Forge World models before you start. - from the FW tauupdate.pdf put up 3ish months ago

is the pertinent text

although i wish they'd put up a huge banner on the GW main page that said "Forge World is official!" to eliminate all doubts

To be fair (and I don't really care one way or the other about FW stuff, as 99% of the people I've gamed with have none), that would be pretty different from the quote you pulled from forge world itself. The single quotes around the word official, plus the bit about the opponents happiness pretty much contradicts any officialness just by the way it is stated. Its wishy-washy and self contradictory, and what it mostly seems to come down to is a general feeling that they'd like people to use it, but if other people aren't comfortable with it, then you shouldn't. So it is there, but whatever. They aren't willing to assert themselves on their own behalf or yours (as a customer of theirs)

Rick Blaine
08-07-2012, 07:49
@MarikLaw: I only order from Forgeworld when they offer their free shipping for Candlemas, usually starting the first week of December. ;)

Oh, is that what they do? I'll have to save up!

Starchild
08-07-2012, 15:10
Indeedy! It's only a three week window of opportunity but it's really the only logical time to order. There's a minimum order requirement of course (75 pounds if i recall correctly) but it's still better than the Emperordamned shipping rate! Forgeworld has offered this for the past seven years or so.

Gorbad Ironclaw
08-07-2012, 15:22
Is there even a good reason why Forgeworld is it's own separate thing these days? It just seems to me that a lot of the confusion and issues and what not could easily be avoided if they wasn't made two different things. It wouldn't even stop them releasing new books, keeping a separate design staff for said books/models or anything like that.

Guyver 3
08-07-2012, 16:15
I dont know if its been said but the gw at warhammer world sells forgeworld stuff.

only the books and product catalogues are on display all the models are in boxes behind the counter or available for pickup later that day, if fw make buying from their website as easy as it is from gw's then store pickup is a real possability and wouldn't be hard to implement.

I for one would like the fw modeling stuff to be available in store as its amazing!

Deamon-forge
09-07-2012, 00:30
i really do hope ForgeWorld items are not sold in normal GW stores as i my self see them as a luxury in the game/company to own. You going to get every tom dick and harry owning a FW dread or flier. (least when it come to a new kid starting the game and get bored he sell it of cheap )
and resin ? it has its dangers and not all 15year olds etc or lower for that matter will follow the rules around resin. So selling in all stores and dont get me on quality......just look at when finecast was released a resin on mass production! i think ForgeWorld items should be at WHW as a store and the US places.

march10k
09-07-2012, 00:38
~shrug~ Just mark it "Not a toy. Not for use by humans, or anyone under age 735," and you're off the hook for the inhaled dust.

Deamon-forge
09-07-2012, 00:59
~shrug~ Just mark it "Not a toy. Not for use by humans, or anyone under age 735," and you're off the hook for the inhaled dust.

lol. best thing iv read all day.

Azzy
09-07-2012, 02:19
Indeedy! It's only a three week window of opportunity but it's really the only logical time to order. There's a minimum order requirement of course (75 pounds if i recall correctly) but it's still better than the Emperordamned shipping rate! Forgeworld has offered this for the past seven years or so.

Thanks for posting that tip. I really wish that they'd start producing the FW models in the US headquarters as well, so there isn't the occasional fluctuating prices (from pounds/dollars conversion rates) or the insane shipping. However, this'll take the edge off that shipping.

theDarkGeneral
09-07-2012, 04:59
This is very inspiring news!

Rick Blaine
09-07-2012, 06:18
i really do hope ForgeWorld items are not sold in normal GW stores as i my self see them as a luxury in the game/company to own. You going to get every tom dick and harry owning a FW dread or flier.

Ah, the good old cry of the elitist.

AlphariusOmegon20
09-07-2012, 06:28
The idea of FW codices on their own is plausible enough, as is GW FAQing them so there is no doubt on their official status. However, mixed in with rumorus of an American production facility and FW in every GW store make me doubt the veracity of the rumours. FW have said over and over that producing FW kits in America is not viable as it requires make even more copies of the moulds and shipping them out to Memphis or wherever the GW factory is at considerable cost. Likewise they don't have FW in every GW store because they don't have the production capacity to manage it. These things can change, of course, maybe GW is subsidising it or something. But until we get some official word I'm highly sceptical of everything bar the GW FAQ.

I consider the OP's rumor especially dodgy, seeing as I know for a FACT that recently in the States, EVERY Bunker stopped doing FW orders permanently, due to repeated excessive shipping times with FW. That information came straight from the horse's mouth to my ear.

Again, you can't order FW in ANY store in the States anymore, as the Bunkers were the last ones still doing FW orders, and they are no longer doing it as of the end of last month.

Kaltenberg
09-07-2012, 07:59
This seems very biased. THe rumor does not come from FW itself but is rather circulating around the web without any certanity or a fixed date for when this would supposedly happen.

As a turnament and event organiser THis certianly will not make me allow FW units in generel.
It works this way:
In order to allow FW units and entries as an organizer I would have to posses the relevant rules. I do not, nor am I interrested in spending said money.
In order to allow FW units and entries they should be clearly presented and updated just like the GW codicies are even with FAQ's. FW is defently working on that.
In order to allow FW units and entries I would need a general concensus that FW units would not tear up the balance and integrity of GW codicies. FW units did that in 5th edition with flyers and several other entries. 6th looks much more promising in this aspect.

Looking forward to see what happens, though I dread the day I have to spend all that money on FW books in order to be updated. It's fun to own buys all the new codicies as they are publised. But I would prefere not having to buy the FW stuff.

Rick Blaine
09-07-2012, 08:15
the balance and integrity of GW codicies

The what now? :eyebrows:

MarikLaw
09-07-2012, 08:30
I would need a general concensus that FW units would not tear up the balance and integrity of GW codicies.

Right on! I love how GW's flawless balancing allows for my Dark Eldar to have a competitive chance against a Space Wolf or Grey Knights army....oh wait...they don't. Maybe my friend will have better luck with his Tyranids...oh wait... *Indiana Jones sad face*

Ereshkigal
09-07-2012, 08:44
T
In order to allow FW units and entries I would need a general concensus that FW units would not tear up the balance and integrity of GW codicies. FW units did that in 5th edition with flyers and several other entries. 6th looks much more promising in this aspect.

What balance? Gw balance? Because we all know there is no such thing.

Rick Blaine
09-07-2012, 10:54
Forge World do not and don't plan to write Codices, nor are our models going to be sold in GW stores.


We're not going to debate the whys and wherefores of products available in stores, save to say that supplying the global GW retail chains would put unsustainable pressure on our manufacturing team.

http://www.facebook.com/ForgeWorldUK

Can we put this garbage rumour to rest now?

eldargal
09-07-2012, 11:29
Engaging smug mode. Smug mode engaged.

Interesting to see if the GW FAQ 'legitimising' FW entries turns out to be true though. Not getting my hopes up but it remains unaddressed by FWs comments.

alexh
09-07-2012, 11:37
http://www.facebook.com/ForgeWorldUK

Can we put this garbage rumour to rest now?

I was just about to post this.

doubleT
09-07-2012, 12:00
@MarikLaw: I only order from Forgeworld when they offer their free shipping for Candlemas, usually starting the first week of December. ;)


Indeedy! It's only a three week window of opportunity but it's really the only logical time to order. There's a minimum order requirement of course (75 pounds if i recall correctly) but it's still better than the Emperordamned shipping rate! Forgeworld has offered this for the past seven years or so.

I don't get it. Orders over 250 GBP are shipped free. :)

Bartali
09-07-2012, 12:10
Engaging smug mode. Smug mode engaged.

Interesting to see if the GW FAQ 'legitimising' FW entries turns out to be true though. Not getting my hopes up but it remains unaddressed by FWs comments.

I'd imagine no. If they were ever going to do it, they would of done it in the rulebook.

I wonder why GW are so reticent to acknowledge one of their sub-divisions ? Do they think Forgeworld stuff will confuse new customers ?!

ferrus
09-07-2012, 12:10
For the future?
Ad Mech. Please.

iosu1978
09-07-2012, 12:24
Would be nice if this was true and lead to codex books for minor-xenos stuff, sadly I think that's too awesome to happen though.

There is always hope... I am very very skeptical about it but i think is very possible, FW models sell well if they were used widely they would sell even better i for one, am happy thinking about the posibilities more variety oh yes! more codex oh yes more xenos!!1 mm maybe that wont happen xD

Crube
09-07-2012, 12:26
Hopefully this is true, and hopefully it transfers over into WFB too...

Rick Blaine
09-07-2012, 12:34
Eh, I guess people hear what they want to hear...

Antipathy
09-07-2012, 12:45
Legion of Azgorh is considered to be Tournament Legal anyway.

Starchild
09-07-2012, 12:53
@doubleT: That's the year-round shipping deal. The Candlemas shipping deal temporarily lowers the minimum order requirement. At least that's how they worked it in the past. Hopefully FW will continue the tradition this year.

Well I'm not surprised by FW's response. There's simple economics in play here. By making their products scarce (i.e. available from only one source) they can justify exhorbitant prestige pricing. I stand by my view that GW could easily integrate FW into it's regular production. GW certainly has the floorspace at Memphis HQ and all they would need is the extra machinery to handle the resin casting of the really large parts... plus any extra servitors, er I mean employees... :o

Leth Shyish'phak
09-07-2012, 12:54
Eh, I guess people hear what they want to hear...

Pff, we've already decided that Forge World isn't official, we obviously can't trust what they say. :p

daboarder
09-07-2012, 13:02
One of the key reasons that FW are a sub division is that the casting process they use can not support the same numbers as the GW finecast and plastic lines. As such the profit lost in replacing the molds means that if more people buy the product they start making diminishing returns as their molds degrade faster.

Rick Blaine
09-07-2012, 13:23
One of the key reasons that FW are a sub division is that the casting process they use can not support the same numbers as the GW finecast and plastic lines. As such the profit lost in replacing the molds means that if more people buy the product they start making diminishing returns as their molds degrade faster.

Errrr.... no. If you're wearing out the molds twice as fast, you're also making money twice as fast.

Starchild
09-07-2012, 13:25
I'm not sure I follow that logic, if that's how they justify their business model. If FW products were available at a lower price, they could see sales and revenue increase to the point where replacing molds would not be a concern, in addition to having plenty of extra equity to hire and train more employees.

I'm quite certain that FW products are not priced to meet profit maximization. I for one would buy more Forgeworld products if the price was lower, as I'm sure many other people would. The way FW prices are now effectively eliminates me from being a customer.

yabbadabba
09-07-2012, 17:02
I wonder why GW are so reticent to acknowledge one of their sub-divisions ? Do they think Forgeworld stuff will confuse new customers ?! GW do recognise FW, but to understand why its not included in the core rulebooks, codexes and in Tournaments is all about how both FW and GW see themselves and their relationship.

Vegeta365
09-07-2012, 18:41
It will be quite simple to soon see.

If Gw start allowing FW models/lists etc in their throne of skull events then we know (wether we like it or not) that they have been fully accepted.

It is no different to the point size games you play. You are free to play the points you like, but a lot of competitvie players play the same points as that used in those events. Does it make that point level any more official? No. Does it make people that play that way feel they are playing the correct sized game? Probably.

MarikLaw
09-07-2012, 21:55
http://www.facebook.com/ForgeWorldUK

Can we put this garbage rumour to rest now?

While I won't say "case closed" or "this doesn't prove anything", companies these days have a habit of either A) denying everything or B) not commenting on anything. While this could very well be true and that FW isn't "going to sell things in GW stores" (note that they only addressed selling things in GW stores, no mention of opening up new distribution centers) and isn't going to make "Codicies" (sometimes companies like to play with wording so they could just call the army books something else), they could also be lying out their teeth just as standard corporate policies these days of deny, deny, deny.

It also seems like those quotes are quite old, so who really knows.

A.T.
09-07-2012, 22:03
What is the status of Forgeworld? I have never been able to figure it out. Are they their own company that just produces GW related items? Are they GW? A sister company to GW? If anyone has the answer to the question, it would be apprieciated. :)Picking a random forgeworld pack off the shelf ...
"The copyright on the model designs and components within this box is the exclusive property of Games Workshop Ltd. Copyright Games Workshop Ltd, 2006." - death korps of krieg.

They stated on their facebook site recently though that they have no intention of selling in-store, due to limited production capabilities. Models do sometimes trickle down in the form of plastic kits though - vendettas, baneblades, etc.

Sithlord
10-07-2012, 02:45
While I won't say "case closed" or "this doesn't prove anything", companies these days have a habit of either A) denying everything or B) not commenting on anything. While this could very well be true and that FW isn't "going to sell things in GW stores" (note that they only addressed selling things in GW stores, no mention of opening up new distribution centers) and isn't going to make "Codicies" (sometimes companies like to play with wording so they could just call the army books something else), they could also be lying out their teeth just as standard corporate policies these days of deny, deny, deny.

It also seems like those quotes are quite old, so who really knows.

exactly, which is why this rumour is not terminated :p , the fact what they said is way before 6th edition is out, and COMPANY* policy to deny every rumour.

* = We all know all types of company is always deny every rumours in order to increase the anticipation of their customers :p

Dangersaurus
10-07-2012, 02:54
...the fact what they said is way before 6th edition is out, and COMPANY* policy to deny every rumour.

I was wondering about that - couldn't find Rick's quote anywhere on their Facebook page, at least without going really far back or creating an account. I just thought I was oldman being old. :confused:

Rick Blaine
10-07-2012, 05:51
Those quotes were maybe 24 hour old at time of posting. The "thread" probably devolved into nerdrage and FW deleted it?

Hendarion
10-07-2012, 08:04
LOL, I love all those conspiracy theories.
Someone: "Forgeworld will make Codices and sell their stuff in GW stores"
Forge World: "Nope, we won't. Too much effort and costs to justify that"
Someone: "Well, Forgeworld must be lying and denying, they're a company"

All indications hint though that Forge World indeed doesn't have enough production capabilities and stores don't have enough space to get that working. But that's the internet, Occam's Razor has no weight there.

eldargal
10-07-2012, 09:24
FW have been consistent on the impossibility of stocking stores and having a US factory for a long time now, it gets asked on the Facebook page frequently. True they were a bit sneaky about the Deimos predator, saying they had no plans to make one because they had already done so and there were some contradictory statements regarding their use of Finecast resin types. But on the whole they have never been deceitful. So why doubt them now?

Col. Dash
10-07-2012, 13:31
What did the facebook page say? I didnt see anything there involving this. This stuff needs to come true, so I can play my Elysians, DKok, and Tyrants Legion officially and not as a counts as. We pay as much money as we do for it, they owe us to make it legal to use, otherwise what is the ******* point?

Sildani
10-07-2012, 13:33
Eldargal: It's more fun to think of them that way?

Thought: if FW say it's too costly to ship molds to the US all the time (which is entirely believable), why can't they send master models instead and let Memphis make their own molds from them? I don't know how FW makes their molds, but surely they don't make them from the prototype, hand sculpted models. It'd make more sense to make ONE mold from the prototype, then use it to make "perfect" masters, and use THOSE to make production molds - wouldn't it?

Chaos and Evil
10-07-2012, 13:55
if FW say it's too costly to ship molds to the US all the time (which is entirely believable), why can't they send master models instead and let Memphis make their own molds from them?
Why would they want to do that?
They can meet their production requirements right now perfectly adequately.

Hendarion
10-07-2012, 14:02
What did the facebook page say? I didnt see anything there involving this. This stuff needs to come true, so I can play my Elysians, DKok, and Tyrants Legion officially and not as a counts as. We pay as much money as we do for it, they owe us to make it legal to use, otherwise what is the ******* point?

Here you go:


Forge World do not and don't plan to write Codices, nor are our models going to be sold in GW stores.

We're not going to debate the whys and wherefores of products available in stores, save to say that supplying the global GW retail chains would put unsustainable pressure on our manufacturing team.
http://www.facebook.com/ForgeWorldUK

Can we put this garbage rumour to rest now?

Inquisitor Kallus
10-07-2012, 14:11
FW have been consistent on the impossibility of stocking stores and having a US factory for a long time now, it gets asked on the Facebook page frequently. True they were a bit sneaky about the Deimos predator, saying they had no plans to make one because they had already done so and there were some contradictory statements regarding their use of Finecast resin types. But on the whole they have never been deceitful. So why doubt them now?

"Its like I told my wife on our wedding day, I swore she would be the only woman for me and that I would never cheat on her. I never cheated on her, apart from this one time.... ."

@Col Dash. The armies you listed ARE official.

I can't wait to see if this pans out. I think its about time Forgeworld got a chance to do this. They've been making cool 'extras' for years, and it would be nice to see GW do a few more things like they do too. That said, it,d be great to see an 'Adeptus Titanicus' game supplement for use with 40k titans and other super heavies. Maybe they could allow the rules to be used in large games of 40k too.

Starchild
10-07-2012, 14:15
How about keeping Adeptus Mechanicus in epic scale? Not everyone cannot afford 2000+ pounds for a Warlord titan battle group. :rolleyes:

Inquisitor Kallus
10-07-2012, 14:20
How about keeping Adeptus Mechanicus in epic scale? Not everyone cannot afford 2000+ pounds for a Warlord titan battle group. :rolleyes:

It is in Epic scale. Indeed, not everyone can afford even a single titan, but some have multiples. Using that logic, we should get rid of 40k scale titans altogether, only have them in Epic. You could even potentially have groups of players so not all the cost falls down to one person. Not everyone can afford Forgeworld period, that doesn't mean to say people dont have large swathes of the stuff..

eldargal
10-07-2012, 14:30
Terrible analogy, FW have been consistent in denying any possibility of GW stores stocking their products or there being factory in the US. They were mildly duplicitous, not deceitful, on two other occassions in, what, twelve years of producing kits? It would be more akin to swearing to be faithful and remaining so but shooting her pet dog in the face while she was on holiday.

"Its like I told my wife on our wedding day, I swore she would be the only woman for me and that I would never cheat on her. I never cheated on her, apart from this one time.... ."

@Col Dash. The armies you listed ARE official.

I can't wait to see if this pans out. I think its about time Forgeworld got a chance to do this. They've been making cool 'extras' for years, and it would be nice to see GW do a few more things like they do too. That said, it,d be great to see an 'Adeptus Titanicus' game supplement for use with 40k titans and other super heavies. Maybe they could allow the rules to be used in large games of 40k too.

x-esiv-4c
10-07-2012, 14:56
Terrible analogy, FW have been consistent in denying any possibility of GW stores stocking their products or there being factory in the US. They were mildly duplicitous, not deceitful, on two other occassions in, what, twelve years of producing kits? It would be more akin to swearing to be faithful and remaining so but shooting her pet dog in the face while she was on holiday.

Errr...Doubleplus terrible analogy. That would be suggesting that FW has series issues ranging from deep-seeded psychological disorders to rampant alcoholism. No one runs around shooting their loved one's dog in the face for the "lawls".

Nope, this is a binary condition. "Mildly" duplicitous? No no no, that's not how it works.

(Also, note the quoting convention I have used. Much easier to follow the flow of conversation).

eldargal
10-07-2012, 14:58
Yes, I was poking fun at the terrible analogy by making a similarly terrible one. That is why I explained the bit about FW consistently denying something for a long time, and only being mildly sneaky on two other occasions.

Col. Dash
10-07-2012, 14:59
If they were official I could use them at all official events and tournies and leagues. Not something I can do right now without begging and generally getting turned down and told no, quit asking.

The Dude
10-07-2012, 14:59
This has been conclusively proven false. The discussion on why Forgeworld do or don't distribute in GW proper and their tournament legality can continue in 40K General.

Thread moved,

The Dude
The Warseer Inquisition

Chapters Unwritten
10-07-2012, 15:00
Their characters are great and all but a lot of FW stuff irks me. Not that it's bad, but really, some of it comes off to me pretty directly like something an 11 year old made up with his friends due to being overly enthusiastic about 40k's 40kness.

Inquisitor Kallus
10-07-2012, 16:51
Terrible analogy, FW have been consistent in denying any possibility of GW stores stocking their products or there being factory in the US. They were mildly duplicitous, not deceitful, on two other occassions in, what, twelve years of producing kits? It would be more akin to swearing to be faithful and remaining so but shooting her pet dog in the face while she was on holiday.

Not an analogy, merely highlighting the appalling use of 'on the whole' and 'never' in the same sentence pertaining to the same subject. You cannot be doing both at the same time as it is contradictory. I suggest you read that sentence again and pay attention to the parts underlined. Just to let you know, no dog was involved, she prefers cats :D


Disclaimer: Also, just to let you all know, im not married. Though I think my girlfriend does prefer cats. Hmmm, that means I could call her 'Cat Lady....' On second thoughts probably best I don't mention it :p


Their characters are great and all but a lot of FW stuff irks me. Not that it's bad, but really, some of it comes off to me pretty directly like something an 11 year old made up with his friends due to being overly enthusiastic about 40k's 40kness.

If youve read all of their works you would be more likely to see that FW tend to tap into a more 'realistic' side to 40k, if there was such a thing. From background to unit types and illustrations (with their accompanying text) implies a more realistic outlook. Most of their characters are genuinely quite underwhelming stats-wise. Take a look at Solomon Lok, Commander Culln or any of the characters from Vraks and you could quite clearly see that. Their stories give blow by blow accounts of investigations/planetary attacks/etc and the characters are not the 'all powerful superheroes' you see in a number of the codexes.

Jericho
10-07-2012, 17:12
Servrin Loth is a goon though. Level 3 psyker, can expend 1 warp charge (no test required!) to make his save 2++ for the turn, and he generates 6 powers from Biomancy/Pyromancy/Telekinesis.

Inquisitor Kallus
10-07-2012, 17:23
That one is a bit OTT, though I imagine thats more because of the new rules change than how he was originally envisaged.

Jericho
10-07-2012, 17:28
My original point was that Forgeworld rules are usually slightly underwhelming (which is fine, paying a slight premium for non-standard units is to be expected). But there is the odd unit that is way above or below the usual power level.

As a Fantasy example, you have Bull Centaurs and K'daai Destroyers in the same list. One is very tame compared to similar units in other books, the other an absolute beast that is constantly targetted by outraged players on the Intertubes who will likely never play against one.

yabbadabba
10-07-2012, 18:22
otherwise what is the ******* point? So you can play games with your mates? Why do you mates need things to be "official", do they not trust your judgement? Playing with your mates is the only bit of officialdom you need to worry about. Everything else, including tournaments, is people getting you to play the way they think you should and that includes GW.

Col. Dash
10-07-2012, 20:10
I for one dont get a lot of free time to just hang out at the store and hope for a game, so I drive the 45 minutes to the store to play when I know I will get a game or two in which means regular preplanned events.

IcedCrow
10-07-2012, 20:14
Any event that I hold at our store allows forgeworld. So events are all different. If your events are telling you that they are not allowed, then make an event where FW is allowed.

yabbadabba
10-07-2012, 20:21
I for one dont get a lot of free time to just hang out at the store and hope for a game, so I drive the 45 minutes to the store to play when I know I will get a game or two in which means regular preplanned events. That kind of misses the point mate. Plus it still doesn't stop you unless your FLGS bans FW, in which case drop the F.

Vegeta365
10-07-2012, 22:20
At no point could I ever see FW stocking there stores with all the products. However I will say that FW will always deny (facebook or otherwise) things that are not official, so using FB as a way of making a decision is a silly one.

For example, if you asked them are they making Heresy Imperial Armour books they would deny it :)

That doesn't mean they aren't though does it!! And there are many examples of this now!

DarianZG
11-07-2012, 02:09
At no point could I ever see FW stocking there stores with all the products. However I will say that FW will always deny (facebook or otherwise) things that are not official, so using FB as a way of making a decision is a silly one.

For example, if you asked them are they making Heresy Imperial Armour books they would deny it :)

That doesn't mean they aren't though does it!! And there are many examples of this now!

To be fair about the Heresy expansion, they have readily admitted it's something they've been wanting to do but just haven't gotten beyond the "it's a good idea" stage yet. I would love to see a Great Crusade-era book with some special rules for the Tartaros Terminators, or maybe even some bonuses and quirks to the various patterns of power armor. My entire Armies on Parade display consisted of Heresy-era models (Tartaros, Mk II, III, and IV tacs, assaults, and apothecaries), a couple Contemptors, a Fellblade conversion, and a Rogue Trader Land Raider.


I've no doubt they'll do it some day, but it sounds like that day may be a bit further away than we hope. But I hope I'm proven wrong very, very soon.

otakuzoku
11-07-2012, 09:17
Come on this is games workshop they deny any existence of a model on a Friday and put up the pre-orders for it on Monday :D

i would not be surprised if there was some truth in this roumour. even if there doing army lists for white dwarf or just codex for popular army's like salamanders. or popular items like land raider and rhino doors being done in fine cast.

The Dude
11-07-2012, 09:31
Forgeworld has always been more open with information sharing that GW proper.

Major_Manny
11-07-2012, 09:48
IF! This is true, then great news, a DKoK codex would probs get me to try out 6th

eldargal
11-07-2012, 09:53
I emailed FW, received this reply:

A Horus Heresy book is something that we would love to work on, as we've mentioned, and undoubtedly it will be done at some stage. The rumour that there will be three books by the end of this year is, however, completely untrue.

Sadly the rumour regarding a North American production facility is incorrect as well; as we've mentioned a few times the demand that supplying a global retail chain would put on us would be astronomical. Suffice to say that while Imperial Armour and Warhammer Forge books will continue to be sold on the shelves of GW stores, our models will remain a direct-only range that you can find at www.forgeworld.co.uk.

We don't, and never have, written Codices. We'll almost certainly continue to publish variant army lists such as the Death Korps and Elysian regiments, or the Siege Assault Vanguard list, but these are not and do not replace the relevant Codex from which they are drawn. Everything we write is designed to expand and build upon the Warhammer 40,000 and Warhammer backgrounds, so while all our rules should be considered official expansions to the relevant game (as discussed in IAA2ndEd, for example), like all expansions their tournament permissibility is down to the tournament organisers themselves.

Major_Manny
11-07-2012, 10:00
Yup...thought as much. Cheers Eldargal. Now i still can't use them as a siege list in pick up games.....

AndrewGPaul
11-07-2012, 10:37
Why not? Have you considered asking your fellow gamers? They might surprise you.

Major_Manny
11-07-2012, 15:11
against friends, yeah i can use em as a siege list. but for tourenys and pick up games, they aren't allowed. So i dont really want to drop the 200+ on the big gun carriages if theyll hardly see the light of day.

Lets be honest, the siege list is no where near as strong as the standard codex list anyway, so i think they should be allowed

Draconis
11-07-2012, 15:15
simply call ahead of time and ask if they'd be allowed. you should get the models for the fun of modeling and painting as well. my dad plays and has a massive, beautiful death korps army and it's not nearly as powerful as a regular IG list. so I can't see what the problem would be if you explained yourself to the organizer.

IcedCrow
11-07-2012, 15:21
If you have no events near you allowing you to use FW items, then petition to have an event that allows them or start an event yourself that allows them.

Konovalev
11-07-2012, 15:31
pick up games, they aren't allowed. So i dont really want to drop the 200+ on the big gun carriages if theyll hardly see the light of day.

There's a big difference between disallowed and allowed by permission. And that difference is between plopping your FW units on the table waiting to see if they say anything and asking if it's ok to use / letting your opponent know that you are using FW units. One is forthcoming and courteous, the other challenges your opponent to address the white elephant(boltgun metal thudgun) on the table.

Major_Manny
11-07-2012, 15:52
I'll just stick to running my Dk under the current codex, as it saves 'asking permission', even though people use all kinds of cheese against each other

Starchild
11-07-2012, 17:01
Forgeworld should know they would sell a great many more models if they were to introduce "official" Warhammer 40,000 codex books.

Maybe the issue is that there are differences of opinion and/or disagreements between the managers of FW and the parent company. Perhaps by keeping distance FW is allowed to do its own thing while GW plods along on its alloted course. (Just referring to army lists here. Of course we are free to use FW models with 40k codices.)

belgarath97
11-07-2012, 17:45
What is the status of Forgeworld? I have never been able to figure it out. Are they their own company that just produces GW related items? Are they GW? A sister company to GW? If anyone has the answer to the question, it would be apprieciated. :)

Forge World is a division of GW Inc. So is Games Workshop Retail, and Games Workshop Studios. As far as GW NA is concerned, at least when I worked there. FW is perfectly acceptable. But like I have always said, every game you play is with opponents consent.

Wishing
11-07-2012, 23:52
GW do recognise FW, but to understand why its not included in the core rulebooks, codexes and in Tournaments is all about how both FW and GW see themselves and their relationship.

I've posted this many times before, but here goes again. Yabba has it exactly right above. FW isn't GW because it is a separate brand. It is special and expensive and only for connoisseurs. If FW models were to become part of their respective codexes, sold in GW stores and totally the same as normal GW models... then there would be no FW. There would just be the normal codexes with a few more entries.

For FW to exist, they have to be different. What makes them different is that they are exclusive and not meant for everyday play. So everyone wanting FW to be part of everyday play (ie. tournament legal, part of codex, etc.) is really calling for the death of FW. Because FW in everyday play = not FW, just ordinary GW products. Which we already have in spades.

murgel2006
12-07-2012, 12:23
For FW to exist, they have to be different. What makes them different is that they are exclusive and not meant for everyday play. So everyone wanting FW to be part of everyday play (ie. tournament legal, part of codex, etc.) is really calling for the death of FW. Because FW in everyday play = not FW, just ordinary GW products. Which we already have in spades.

This is a matter of personal perspective and not a mater of market survival.
To me FW exists in the market because they produce models and sometimes rules for them and they do it interesting, nicely detailed and not available via GW.
Those models are expensive, more so than GW's. Because of that the units they represent are rarely used in the game. Not the other way around.
GW provides the core codex and most of it's models but never have they (GW) stated that FW units are not to be used. Would be ridiculous as quite some models have been available via FW only for a long time (Waveserpent being one of the most prominent).

Anyway what it comes down to is: It is a mater of personal perspective.

Wishing
12-07-2012, 23:38
This is a matter of personal perspective and not a mater of market survival.

Well, not really. The reason that GW keeps FW as a separate brand with its own separate expansions which are only allowed in GW tournaments on a case by case basis is presumably well established with GW management. We just don't know what those reasons are and can only speculate. It's not just a question of personal perspective. What we personally think of FW products has no effect on why GW keep FW as a separate brand rather than merge them with the main model line.

Sithlord
15-07-2012, 10:31
can somebody tell the mod to put this topic back on rumour section? I mean, somebody already speculate that Forgeworld going mainstream (because Games Workshop show off the avenger strike cruiser. Not everyday you see forgeworld new stuff on GW page)

Hendarion
15-07-2012, 11:40
They do that for quite some time now. Still, the "rumour" about FW-codices and FW-stuff being sold within GW-stores already proved false, so why putting it back to news and rumours?

Rick Blaine
15-07-2012, 12:27
can somebody tell the mod to put this topic back on rumour section?

Why? It's been debunked.

The Dude
15-07-2012, 12:52
I could always close it if it's an issue ;)