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excessiveswagger
08-07-2012, 12:43
I was thinking of fielding the following unit and was wondering how the rules would work in its case.

Lets say I take a big unit of 50 night goblins 5 wide by 10 deep. I then buy 5 NG heroes with AHW and put them in the front rank. I then buy 5 NG warbosses and give them great weapons and put them in the second rank.

Now lets assume they are fighting initiative 3 troops.

The heroes at the front will swing with all their attacks, lets assume after they have done so they are all killed by the initiative 3 opponents turn to strike. It is now the ASL warbosses turn to strike. I presume they will step into the front rank after the heroes die, so will that mean they get all four of their attacks with the great weapons? This could potentially be a very nasty first turn of combat from the goblins with 20 attacks from the heroes + 20 from the warbosses after the heroes die.

The question is... is it legal?

As another point, I charge a 3x1 unit of bloodcrushers in the flank with init 3 troops. The rider has init 4 for a bloodcrusher but the mount is only init 2. If the rider on the flank strikes and is then killed before the mount can strike, the flanking unit will move forward to hit the next crusher in the line. WIll this crusher have its full attacks or will only the mount get to hit as attacks at init 4 have already passed?

Cheers fellas

DaemonReign
08-07-2012, 14:30
For your first question (Great Weapon Warbosses stepping up) -
I would assume this is perfectly legal.

For your second question:
It looks simple at Surface but I'm at a loss. Don't know how to call this one actually. *haha* I would guess that there's no such thing as a certain init-step 'having passed' though, so intuitively the sane thing to do would be to let that second Bloodcrusher attack with both rider and mount.

papabearshane
08-07-2012, 15:00
You would remove the blood crusher from the rear of the blood crushers and then the mount would attack. Step up is great but it dose cause problems like this.m

T10
08-07-2012, 15:06
Models fight from their current position when their turn comes up. The rules don't deal with the issue of models moving into a fighting position AFTER their turn has passed, but makes no allowances for models "stepping up" and fighting in the same Initiative count, such as when Initiative 3 troops are getting killed by Initiative 3 troops.

sorberec
08-07-2012, 21:32
I would guess that there's no such thing as a certain init-step 'having passed' though, so intuitively the sane thing to do would be to let that second Bloodcrusher attack with both rider and mount.

Combat goes in initiative order. In the example given, the rider in the charged flank of the Bloodcrusher unit attacked at the I4 stage then the charging unit killed him at the I3 stage. As the casualty is taken off the unengaged end of the unit we're now at the I2 stage and only the mount can strike, the I4 stage having been passed. You attack what is there at your initiative stage. Clean and simple and by the rules.

Bitten Black Sheep
09-07-2012, 03:42
Goblin "deathstar" is perfectly legal except that your command group (if any) must be inthe front rank. Characters can make way to the front and move them. The arrangement is also totally impractical. You have about 800 points in that unit just begging for a panic test.
Nobody would go near it, well not to the front anyway and just obliterate it from a distance or feed it chaff whilst they deal with the rest of your army at a 2:1 advantage.
These one trick pony armies sound a lot better in your head and are fun to try - once - then you find out the limitations. Good luck.
Your other question has been answered, the mount would still attack as the casualty is taken from the back (other end of the line).

Blkc57
09-07-2012, 05:47
One Dwellers or some other "anti-deathstar" spell and this list goes down for the count, just don't complain about those spells if someone breaks them out. Death-stars are the main reason for their existence.

Mid'ean
09-07-2012, 11:11
Sword of anti-heroes anyone? 10 S10 attacks......:evilgrin:

Artiee
09-07-2012, 13:28
Sword of anti-heroes anyone? 10 S10 attacks......:evilgrin:

It would be +5 Str +5 attacks.

Mid'ean
09-07-2012, 13:59
It would be +5 Str +5 attacks.

10 characters would be +10 S +10 attacks.

LiddellHart
09-07-2012, 14:55
10 characters would be +10 S +10 attacks.

Yep, and 5 characters would be +5 Str +5 attacks.
This would go for every natural number I guess.
But the gobbo's in the example are deployed 5 wide.

Artiee
09-07-2012, 15:04
The sword is +1 attack +1 Str for every character that is in base contact with the unit. Not the number of characters in that unit.

The unit is 5wide, 10 deep, If the units are front to front, it would be 5 character in base contact with the unit. So +5 Str +5 attacks.

Askari
09-07-2012, 19:22
The sword is +1 attack +1 Str for every character that is in base contact with the unit. Not the number of characters in that unit.

The unit is 5wide, 10 deep, If the units are front to front, it would be 5 character in base contact with the unit. So +5 Str +5 attacks.

That would still be 10 Strength 10 attacks for a Vampire Lord :p

Artiee
09-07-2012, 20:52
Ya, when total, it depends on the lord.
Dreadlord, 9 str 9 attacks.

Mati
09-07-2012, 23:04
"Dread" Lord indeed :O terryfing perspective

Jezbot
10-07-2012, 07:13
You would remove the blood crusher from the rear of the blood crushers and then the mount would attack. Step up is great but it dose cause problems like this.m

I'd say the problem is more with the Initiative Sequence, which after the introduction of Step Up is looking more and more like a vestigial rule.

Lord Solar Plexus
10-07-2012, 09:43
What's the problem with step up or the sequence?

excessiveswagger
11-07-2012, 14:23
Cheers for the responses fellas. Looks like it is indeed plausible then. Am planning on running an all goblin list involving a lvl 4 NG shaman on flying carpet, lvl 2 NG shaman, goblin warlord with wizarding hat (for some extra punch once the lvl 4 drains the opponents dispel dice or eats a bad mushroom). Several units of NG loaded with fanatics, a squig herd, a unit of 3 goblin heroes on gigantic spiders (monstrous cavalry), some wolf riders, rock lobbas and doom divers.

Will take a couple of pump wagons to run over chaff if the wolf riders cant catch them so i can release the fanatics when I want and if I can afford it a couple of mangler squigs. Will see how many heroes I can cram into the NG units after. Oh and the obligitory BSB and ruby ring of ruin so stop regen.

Probably not the most effective list ever but sounds fun...