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View Full Version : Snapshots / Target Arrays and Markerlights - Question



Gonefishing
09-07-2012, 19:44
Ok, trying to put together a Tau list for 6th edition and desperately trying to find some sort of positive approach to what the Tau Codex has become in our brave new era....

So a question (would have made a helpful FAQ GW!)

Snapfire states

"If a model is forced to make snapshots rather than shoot normally, then its Ballistic Skill is counted as being one for the Purpose of those shots"


Target Arrays : A Target Array grants the user +1 BS (up to BS 5)

Markerlights/Networked Markerlights: To allow a unit that fires at the target to do so at +1 to its Ballistic Skill.


Will Markerlights / Target Arrays give a BS plus to a Snapfiring unit?

xerxeshavelock
09-07-2012, 19:54
No - set values are now applied last.

vitch
09-07-2012, 20:04
Any unused Markerlight tokens are removed at the end of the current Tau shooting phase.

Gonefishing
09-07-2012, 20:11
Yes, but you snapfire in your own phase, and with networked Markerlights you could fire them as part of overwatch shooting in your opponents phase.

A.T.
09-07-2012, 21:10
xerxeshavelock is correct - check page 2. The BS is set to 1 after all other modifiers, except for other fixed modifiers (such as a psyocculum - which results in a dice off)

Gonefishing
09-07-2012, 21:37
xerxeshavelock is correct - check page 2. The BS is set to 1 after all other modifiers, except for other fixed modifiers (such as a psyocculum - which results in a dice off)

Damn, back to the drawing board on finding a redeeming feature for Tau in 6th edition then!

xerxeshavelock
10-07-2012, 00:47
If you twin link thats nearly as good as BS2...

GodofWarTx
10-07-2012, 05:26
Damn, back to the drawing board on finding a redeeming feature for Tau in 6th edition then!


You mean besides shooting on the move with pulse rifles, and then firing their kroot gun and pulse rifles at half-range, instead of 12", and getting to overwatch fire into charging enemies? Heh.

alexh
10-07-2012, 07:23
Damn, back to the drawing board on finding a redeeming feature for Tau in 6th edition then!

Seeker missiles will be good vs flyers if you hit with a markerlight.

Gonefishing
10-07-2012, 18:37
You mean besides shooting on the move with pulse rifles, and then firing their kroot gun and pulse rifles at half-range, instead of 12", and getting to overwatch fire into charging enemies? Heh.

Hmmm, we will have to agree to disagree there - I think the Pulse Rifle is a great weapon, and the boosts to the Rapid Fire rules have made it an even better weapon....Sadly I think the Troops choice carrying it is one of the most useless godawful overpriced units in the game. The new rules made the gun better, but they did not change the fact that Fire Warriors are overcosted, easily killed, easy to make run away or pin, unable to hold any special weaponry to help in difficult situations and generally about as much use as a (for want of a metaphor) a very useless thing. Couple that with the fact they cant take or hold objectives reliably, and can no longer score in a fish and I remain less than impressed.

Kroot were awesome in 5th, but the fact they can now move and fire there Kroot Gun does not make up for the fact that they can no longer assualt on the outflank, mysterious forests stand a 1 in 3 chance of hurting them, they cant bubblewrap anymore thanks to things like focused fire and jump troops being able to move over them in the assualt and as they have no save have suffered from the lower coversaves and are vulnerable to overwatch when they assualt.

On the overwatch point - I think its a rule that looks better on paper then it is in game - 12 Firewarriors might kill one marine through overwatch - then they die quite horribly.



Seeker missiles will be good vs flyers if you hit with a markerlight.

Did consider this one, but essentially your paying 10 points per shot, you still need to hit the flyer with a Markerlight on a 6 and then you need to roll to hit again at BS5 - think a TL Missile Pod is statisticlly more likely to get a couple of hits and its a more points effcient choice which is also good against other targets. Dont think seekers are the answer against Fliers.

Charistoph
10-07-2012, 19:18
Did consider this one, but essentially your paying 10 points per shot, you still need to hit the flyer with a Markerlight on a 6 and then you need to roll to hit again at BS5 - think a TL Missile Pod is statisticlly more likely to get a couple of hits and its a more points effcient choice which is also good against other targets. Dont think seekers are the answer against Fliers.

Yeah, Seekers are only really useful on the Sky Ray, imo. But Seekers don't toll to hit on BS 5, they hit on a 2+. It may seem the same, but when your're shooting at Flyers, it makes all the difference in the world.

Are Seekers the answer to Flyers, though? I think they could be, but there are no cost-effective mounts for them at this time. Sky Rays could be, as could Remoras and Barracudas, but not at current prices and organizational challenges.

ehlijen
11-07-2012, 02:02
Yeah, Seekers are only really useful on the Sky Ray, imo. But Seekers don't toll to hit on BS 5, they hit on a 2+. It may seem the same, but when your're shooting at Flyers, it makes all the difference in the world.

Are Seekers the answer to Flyers, though? I think they could be, but there are no cost-effective mounts for them at this time. Sky Rays could be, as could Remoras and Barracudas, but not at current prices and organizational challenges.

Seekers are very much BS5 (and therefore penalised by snapfire) instead of hitting on 2+. You're thinking of the first Tau codex.

Between that and you first needing a markerlight hit in the flyer (and as of now there are no skyfire markerlights), I don't think seekers are the answer to fliers.

megatrons2nd
11-07-2012, 02:18
Seekers are very much BS5 (and therefore penalised by snapfire) instead of hitting on 2+. You're thinking of the first Tau codex.

Between that and you first needing a markerlight hit in the flyer (and as of now there are no skyfire markerlights), I don't think seekers are the answer to fliers.

The FAQ allows the seeker missile to hit a flier at BS5.

ehlijen
11-07-2012, 03:25
Not sure which part of the FAQ you mean. The only thing regardig seekers and BS5 in there I found was the ruling that confirms that the vehicle being reduced to BS1 has no effect on the seeker missile's BS, which it shouldn't because it was never the vehicle's BS that was used when firing the missile (else they'd fire at BS3 or 4, but not 5).

That ruling has no relevance on the question of whether the assumed BS5 that is used when a seeker is fired is subject to the snapfire penalty or not.

If the seeker missile itself targets a flier, it is both BS1 and BS5 and thus two conflicting set value modifiers apply (to which the apparent suggested solution is a roll off).

Corporeal
11-07-2012, 03:34
I'd say it would still be BS5 because the model isn't actually firing it (no control over them). It's responding to a markerlight hit.

ehlijen
11-07-2012, 03:49
A seeker fired from a shaken (ie snapfiring) vehicle is BS5, not BS1, yes.

But a seeker firing at a flyer is forced to snapfire, regardless of what the vehicle is doing otherwise.

Stonerhino
11-07-2012, 05:02
What if it was fired from a Ramora using skyfire???

ehlijen
11-07-2012, 05:22
Not sure. I think it still wouldn't be a skyfire missile, as the carrying vehicle isn't the model in control of it and thus the skyfire from being a flyer doesn't transfer to the missiles.

neko
11-07-2012, 11:04
Going by rules as written, shouldn't the BS of the firer be the only thing that's overridden? Strictly speaking, this would mean that the seeker would still pick up any other benefits such as skyfire.

Charistoph
11-07-2012, 14:19
Seekers are very much BS5 (and therefore penalised by snapfire) instead of hitting on 2+. You're thinking of the first Tau codex.

Between that and you first needing a markerlight hit in the flyer (and as of now there are no skyfire markerlights), I don't think seekers are the answer to fliers.

You are correct on the BS5 part, I somehow had it in my head that it was described thus in the current SM dialogue, not the Marker Light dialogue.


If the seeker missile itself targets a flier, it is both BS1 and BS5 and thus two conflicting set value modifiers apply (to which the apparent suggested solution is a roll off).

Which my previous comment about the Seeker launch being in Marker Lights leads me to the point that it states that it fires at ALL OCCASIONS as BS 5, which would include Snap Fire or Firing at a Zooming Flyer. For all intents and purposes and RAW, Seeker Missiles have both Skyfire AND Interceptor.

The only things that prevent them from being the perfect Flyer hunter is that they are one-shot, expensive, and rely on BS1 Marker Lights.

So, I stand by my deceleration that they COULD BE, just not right now.

ehlijen
11-07-2012, 14:42
Which my previous comment about the Seeker launch being in Marker Lights leads me to the point that it states that it fires at ALL OCCASIONS as BS 5, which would include Snap Fire or Firing at a Zooming Flyer. For all intents and purposes and RAW, Seeker Missiles have both Skyfire AND Interceptor.

The only things that prevent them from being the perfect Flyer hunter is that they are one-shot, expensive, and rely on BS1 Marker Lights.

So, I stand by my deceleration that they COULD BE, just not right now.

And I don't know where you get the all occasions from, but I'm actually willing to agree with that. The problem is, that makes it a set value replacement modifier, the same as the BS1 from snapfire. There is no rulebook way to resolve that, and only specific examples in the FAQ, all suggesting that rolling off which is applied after the other (and therefore is the final BS value) each time.

That would mean there's a 50% chance a seeker will be BS5 instead of 1.

There is nothing suggesting seekers gain skyfire, nor interceptor (they will never fire in response to deepstriking). And it's not just units shooting at flyers that are BS1, but all shots targetting them.

Charistoph
11-07-2012, 15:35
And I don't know where you get the all occasions from, but I'm actually willing to agree with that. The problem is, that makes it a set value replacement modifier, the same as the BS1 from snapfire. There is no rulebook way to resolve that, and only specific examples in the FAQ, all suggesting that rolling off which is applied after the other (and therefore is the final BS value) each time.

Right before it says it fires at BS 5.


There is nothing suggesting seekers gain skyfire, nor interceptor (they will never fire in response to deepstriking). And it's not just units shooting at flyers that are BS1, but all shots targetting them.

Correct, they will never fire in response to Deep Striking, because it has to be Marked first. The reason I stated it would have Interceptor would be that it wouldn't be Snap Firing at Ground Targets, either.