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View Full Version : Are weaker army books better?



Lord Dan
12-07-2012, 20:54
While in 40K the armies seem to be getting progressively stronger with each new codex, fantasy seems to be moving in the opposite direction. The last year's worth of army books have been generally weaker than their predecessors, and in 8th edition there doesn't appear to be a consistent "top tier" list like there was in 7th. All of that being said, please take a moment to answer the poll, above.

Urgat
12-07-2012, 21:19
I don't agree. OnG, TK, OK, they all got better. Can't say about VC or Empire, but that's still a majority that's better, so... can't vote.

DaemonReign
12-07-2012, 22:23
Urgat is correct. The questions of this poll are based on an illusory premise. There's no Army Book released for 8th Ed that's actually been decidedly 'nerfed'.
The only candidate that comes close is Vampire Counts, but here we're looking at improved internal balance rather than a straight nerf. I.e. you can now build more than 1 variant of a VC army that is competative, but that build is not as flat out 'no brain' as it was with the previous book (especially for the duration we used the 7th Ed AB in the 8th Ed environment).
Ogres - Well they just got better on every front didn't they.
OnG - Nothing huge. Certainly not worse off. Certainly more playable. An improvement.
Empire - Pretty much the same as OnG I reckon. Unless you play Grand Armies and beyond - in which case the new rules for Detachments and stackable Laser-Mobiles etcetera is bordering on gourmet cheddar.
TK - Funnily enough.. Nothing huge seems to have happened here either. They kinda sucked before, and evidently most seem to think they still do.

Out of all of these books, the only 'fault' seems to be that that TK weren't buffed enough.
But talking about any of these books as though the question is whether or not they were nerfed properly isn't intellectually honest.

Wesser
12-07-2012, 22:43
Urgat is correct. The questions of this poll are based on an illusory premise. There's no Army Book released for 8th Ed that's actually been decidedly 'nerfed'.
Empire - Pretty much the same as OnG I reckon. Unless you play Grand Armies and beyond - in which case the new rules for Detachments and stackable Laser-Mobiles etcetera is bordering on gourmet cheddar.


The Laser Ward Save doesnt stack and Empire get progressively weaker in huge games simply because detachments will clutter it up. Hurricanums may stack I'm not sure, it's such a poorly written book that anything goes

Confessor_Atol
12-07-2012, 22:49
TKs got pantsed due primarily to the loss of the magic charge......

However, I'm totally for the evening-out of the playing field that seems to be taking place in 8th. All the books seem to have multiple different viable builds. None have reached the OTT level that we saw late 7th. I can't wait to see what comes next.

My insane conspiracy theory is that GW likes to break their systems just before a new edition, E.G. daemons and darkelves with 7th ed WHFB and grey knights and necrons for 5th ed 40k.

DaemonReign
12-07-2012, 22:49
Progressively weaker? God no. (This isn't theorizing, playing huge battles is what I do..)

I was wrong about the LazerMobile specifically though. :)

And I agree that the book could have been proof-read a couple of more times.

Veshnakar
12-07-2012, 23:25
I think the BIGGEST thing with the new books is variety. Especially with Empire, TK, Vampires, and O&G. With tomb kings especially, there are three guys locally that play tomb kings and none of them have the same playstyle. Three VERY different forces from the same army.

I actually think this was intentional on games workshop's part. The more models in an army and variations it can be played in, the more models people will buy. I actually hope the current trend continues until they get to the rest of the 7th edition books, and we would REALLY have an awesome edition! Currently I think ogres are ruling the tables but I think once more armies come out like VC and TK that can somewhat abuse low LD armies, then ogres will go down a notch in the metagame.

That said though, all of the 8th edition books so far have been absolutely fantastic. I think if the ogre book didn't have the hellheart or ironblaster it would have been perfectly in line with the other books, but those items really hurt. Still not an overpowered army though IMHO.

Lord Dan
12-07-2012, 23:41
Interesting feedback guys. I, rather foolishly, hadn't considered that some might not agree with the pretense of the poll. I'm going to close this one and open a related one.