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ShadyMonkie
13-07-2012, 04:13
Ever since i restarted my lizardmen many of my friends are coming back to the hobby.
One of my friend, whom i barely played with, told me today that his army only have access to 8 army specific magic item.
Is this true? I guess it sort of makes sense for O&G nature but 8 seems bit too low.

DaemonReign
13-07-2012, 04:21
Oh so you haven't heard about this yet? Boy.. You're not much into keeping up to speed with Army Books that you're not playing yourself are you?

Decreasing the variety of Army-specific magic items has been the name of the game with the Army Books released so far for 8th Edition.
O&G (being the first 8th Ed book and, well, Orcs..) got extremely few Items in their book (even by 8th Ed Standards) but all the subsequent books have been following the same trend.
Looking at the New VC book it's not all doom and gloom though.. They did keep Vampiric Powers.. and some Magic Items too.

It's one of the few really bad things about this Edition. If you ask me. Enjoy your 7th Ed book for as long as its legit. :)

Iraf
13-07-2012, 04:22
The O&G book does only have 8 unique magic items. They are still able to use the common magic items from the rulebook. All the new books have reduced the number of unique magic items available. O&G/Tombkings have 8, Ogre Kingdom has 10, and Vampire Counts has 9.

ShadyMonkie
13-07-2012, 04:29
o.O
Boy, am i glad that Lizardmen still attains 7th style....
I always liked being able to combine bunch of items to create unique hero/fun hero; kind of make me feel sad about the change.

TheOneHawk
13-07-2012, 04:45
There's still a bunch of items, they're just all in the main rulebook.

Ultimate Life Form
13-07-2012, 04:46
o.O
Boy, am i glad that Lizardmen still attains 7th style....
I always liked being able to combine bunch of items to create unique hero/fun hero; kind of make me feel sad about the change.

This however was what made completely broken and overpowered combos possible in the first place and utterly ruined 7th Edition. Now that all armies largely use the same items much has been achieved in terms of balancing them. If you think it sucks... well, now we're all paying the price for the transgressions of a few stupid WAAC players who didn't know how to restrict themselves. There you go.

ShadyMonkie
13-07-2012, 04:57
This however was what made completely broken and overpowered combos possible in the first place and utterly ruined 7th Edition. Now that all armies largely use the same items much has been achieved in terms of balancing them. If you think it sucks... well, now we're all paying the price for the transgressions of a few stupid WAAC players who didn't know how to restrict themselves. There you go.
That was actually my first thought, making the game bit more balance, which probably answers my question of "why are there so many common magic items?" in new BRB.
Kind of sad but i guess it is a "decent" way to balance the game.

Lance Tankmen
13-07-2012, 05:09
i must admit having an old books nice because i have two people with a 1+ armor save rerollable and a 5+/6+ ward save XD

ShadyMonkie
13-07-2012, 05:12
i must admit having an old books nice because i have two people with a 1+ armor save rerollable and a 5+/6+ ward save XD
IIRC, you aren't allowed to take two of identical items in one list.

Tarian
13-07-2012, 05:49
High Elves can manage 2 different 1+ rerollable armor characters, as they have an army book item and a BRB item that are pretty much the same thing, just different costs/names. Toss in some wards, and there ya go.

Lance Tankmen
13-07-2012, 06:36
IIRC, you aren't allowed to take two of identical items in one list.


IIRC not sure what it stands for but gromril great helm, and dawn stone

Artiee
13-07-2012, 12:32
IIRC not sure what it stands for ....
If I Recall Correctly

Lance Tankmen
13-07-2012, 18:00
thank you, for the reply

Gehrcke
29-07-2012, 09:51
Being on topic regarding to magic item, if a hero has the shrieking Blade and is in a unit, does the hole unit cause fear???

Hell Storm
29-07-2012, 10:14
The whole unit causes fear but only the character with the blade is immune to fear.

Lorcryst
29-07-2012, 11:39
IIRC not sure what it stands for but gromril great helm, and dawn stone


I'm a bit late to the discussion, but that bit made me :wtf: ...

Gromril armour ? That's a Dwarf only item found in the Dwarf Army book (from 6th ed, still current) ... meaning that you can take Runes, but NOT common magic items from the main rulebook ... so I'm afraid that Gromril + Great Helm + Dawn Stone is illegal ...

But that's not a problem, a Dwarf Lord with Shieldbearers, Rune of Stone, Rune of Resistance and Master Rune of Steel on his armour, plus a runic talisman with Master Rune of Spite has a 1+, rerollable, enemy strength capped at 5 Armour Save (so in worst case scenario, 3+ rerollable), AND a 4++ Ward Save ...

Mr_Rose
29-07-2012, 12:08
A "Gromril Great Helm" is, if I recall correctly, a specific item of its own, not Dwarven Gromril armour and a helm from somewhere.

Bladelord
29-07-2012, 12:51
Gromril Great Helm's a magic armour that was a gift from the dwarf king Grundhar Irongut to a group of Questing Knights which helped the dwarfs break a siege of Karaz-a-Karak.

Lorcryst
29-07-2012, 12:59
A "Gromril Great Helm" is, if I recall correctly, a specific item of its own, not Dwarven Gromril armour and a helm from somewhere.

Ah yes, you're right, that's an item from the Bretonnia army book ... one of the three is still don't have :p

That means Bret Lord/Paladin, Heavy Armour, Shield, Barded Warhorse, Gromril Great Helm for the 1+ rerollable Armour Save ... don't really see the need for the Dawn Stone, as the helm already gives a reroll on failed armour saves, and you cannot reroll the same roll twice ...

Unless Helm on a character, and Dawn Stone + Enchanted Shield on another ?

Moss
29-07-2012, 14:10
Yeah, his point was that he can take TWO characters with rerollable 1+ saves.

Lance Tankmen
29-07-2012, 14:35
correct, my bsb and general both have 1+ rerollables and a 5/6+ ward save. ill be sad when we lose the helm

Spiney Norman
29-07-2012, 14:48
o.O
Boy, am i glad that Lizardmen still attains 7th style....
I always liked being able to combine bunch of items to create unique hero/fun hero; kind of make me feel sad about the change.

We are talking about the 7th edition lizardmen book yes? There are only about 4 items worth their points cost in the book anyway, so there's not really any reason to lament the smaller list of items in the newer books, especially when ou have such a long list of great common items to choose from as well. In all honesty I've never thought "I wish I had a wider selection of magic items to give my characters" when writing an O&G list.

SimaoSegunda
29-07-2012, 15:05
My regret with the OnG book is the lack of cheap items, because I like cheap magic weapons, I.E. <25pts, and talismen too. It lets me picture my army as a band of plunderers, with the bosses each grabbing their pick of the shiny booty!

Lorcryst
29-07-2012, 15:13
My regret with the OnG book is the lack of cheap items, because I like cheap magic weapons, I.E. <25pts, and talismen too. It lets me picture my army as a band of plunderers, with the bosses each grabbing their pick of the shiny booty!

Not really a problem with the plethora of cheap-ish items for the main rulebook, isn't it ?

I lament the loss of the Staff of Sneaky Stealin', but with the Lore Attribute of the Little Waaagh, it's more than compensated ...

SimaoSegunda
29-07-2012, 15:19
Oh no, I agree, it's not a big problem. It just would have been nice to have one or two unique items below the 50pt barrier.

SilasOfTheLambs
29-07-2012, 17:45
The Empire book and, arguably, the VC book are unfortunately the only books where even half the army-specific magic items are useable. Ogres, greenskins, TK, and Beastmen don't really have that many that are even slightly worth their points. I like the trend, though. The VC items are goodish, and I've now seen every single empire item except the 60-point banner being used in tournament play. I think GW is getting much better at writing balanced magic items, and once we get rid of some of the disgusting ones from the old softcover books (y'know, infernal puppet, pendant of khaeleth, etc) we'll have a very excellent game in terms of item balance.

Spiney Norman
31-07-2012, 13:31
The Empire book and, arguably, the VC book are unfortunately the only books where even half the army-specific magic items are useable. Ogres, greenskins, TK, and Beastmen don't really have that many that are even slightly worth their points. I like the trend, though. The VC items are goodish, and I've now seen every single empire item except the 60-point banner being used in tournament play. I think GW is getting much better at writing balanced magic items, and once we get rid of some of the disgusting ones from the old softcover books (y'know, infernal puppet, pendant of khaeleth, etc) we'll have a very excellent game in terms of item balance.

Hmmm, I guess we'll agree to disagree, the O&G items list is massively let down by having three banners than only a BSB can take (let's face it no-one ever gives their BSB a banner, his item allowance is far more needed for items to keep him alive), but the other items are sound, the shrunken head is almost OP, I think the only other item I would never consider is the skull wand, which is a joke, just as it was last edition.

The TK list is excellent, the destroyer is a bit meh, but the cloak and blade of antar are great, the mighty scroll is totally OP and the Kanopi is a useful items as well. The undying banner is good as well on the right unit (tomb guard).

I think the reduction of army specific magic items can only be good for the game, one of the most unbalancing factors of 7th was the horribly overpowered magic items like the book of hoeth, pendent of Khaleth and infernal puppet, reducing the number of army specific magic items will reduce that imbalance.

Lorcryst
31-07-2012, 15:47
Hmmm, my Night Goblin BSB never leaves his caves without his Bad Moon Banner ... and I like the Stunty Basha on my Night Goblin Warboss ...

Granted, I haven't tried the other O&G items yet, what with only having a horde of NGs at the moment ...

Petey
31-07-2012, 17:23
Hmmm, I guess we'll agree to disagree, the O&G items list is massively let down by having three banners than only a BSB can take (let's face it no-one ever gives their BSB a banner, his item allowance is far more needed for items to keep him alive), but the other items are sound, the shrunken head is almost OP, I think the only other item I would never consider is the skull wand, which is a joke, just as it was last edition.

The TK list is excellent, the destroyer is a bit meh, but the cloak and blade of antar are great, the mighty scroll is totally OP and the Kanopi is a useful items as well. The undying banner is good as well on the right unit (tomb guard).

I think the reduction of army specific magic items can only be good for the game, one of the most unbalancing factors of 7th was the horribly overpowered magic items like the book of hoeth, pendent of Khaleth and infernal puppet, reducing the number of army specific magic items will reduce that imbalance.

I guess I'm no-one then, as I always give my gobbos a bsb with a magic banner. Preferably poisoned attacks. I agree with you about the skull wand, it should be a lead check at -1 or -2, or be cheaper.

What I don't like about the reduced magic item list is that there's very little way to make a "special" un named character. The general is supposed to represent the player in many ways on the table, you want him to be unique and fight the way you want him to on the battle field. I'll grant that there's better ways to do that (like warlord traits from 40k), but those aren't available to us. Maybe they'll do another expansion to make martial characters worth a damn, or maybe we just have to wait for 9th. Losing magic items made heroes lose some potential for personality, even if it gave us better balance.

Mr_Rose
31-07-2012, 17:36
In further anecdotal news; I'm quite fond of my Savage Warboss on Warboar with the armour of Mork (or Gork?) and his lovely S6 magic impact hits, particularly when those annoying ethereal units start showing up.

Gradolt
01-08-2012, 17:27
The only OnG magic Item that I find useful is the Luck Shrunken Head. Basha's Axe can easily be replaced by the sword of anti-hero and I don't see the point of having a armor costing 100pts and giving no additionnal ward save :(

Yowzo
02-08-2012, 06:59
Not really a problem with the plethora of cheap-ish items for the main rulebook, isn't it ?

I lament the loss of the Staff of Sneaky Stealin', but with the Lore Attribute of the Little Waaagh, it's more than compensated ...

In the old books you had pure gold items like the lucky's dirk (so cheap, so good), triksy trinket, shaga's sword, akkrit axe, best basha, bigged boots, etc.

Gradolt
02-08-2012, 13:22
I loved what they did though with the brb having a lot of magic items, this probably help balancing armies in 8th. There's so much broken magic items in 7th.

Yowzo
03-08-2012, 06:58
I loved what they did though with the brb having a lot of magic items, this probably help balancing armies in 8th. There's so much broken magic items in 7th.

The only marginally broken item in O&G 7th book was the dispel dice banner + staff of sneaky stealin' combo.

But yes, having only a few unique items levels the playing field a lot... at least will be when all armies are redone.

Toshiro
03-08-2012, 14:11
let's face it no-one ever gives their BSB a banner.

I frequently take a goblin BSB with the spider banner and plant him in a nice big unit och night goblin archers, keep a mage with the gift of spider god nearby and see the 40ish 5+ poison shots rain down :p