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Soundwave
13-07-2012, 15:02
Alright our pipe-weed smoking,hip flask swilling, pointy hatted ones are more important to us more than ever before in previous editions,so i would like to hear how you as a gamer are building units that keep them safe and keeping range to do there work across the board for all armies?
Example;Oh surprise my level 4 dark elf sorceress runs with my spearmen......
I am finding that core choices seem to be the most popular although are you baby sitting particular wizards with your special or rare units and risking them being fried by miscast?

kefkah
13-07-2012, 15:28
My Friend, VC, always has a unit of 20 zombies to bunker, wich seems the best bunker of all armies.Cheap, sweet,and raisable.

I, HE-Player, have them in a unit of archers, about 12-.-16 models. Most of the time i have etheral talisman on him, so its just for look out sir and cant be targeted by spells.

If i misscast, its like you say, some archers dies. Though i have had them in White Lions before to, and it worked out fine.

You shouldent really be that afraid of a miscast.


Though if deploying with archers i need a lore that has some range 24 spells, otherwise its a pretty dull first turn magic.

Lord Dan
13-07-2012, 15:29
Well you want them to be survivable, but don't want them to be expensive to the point where it would be just as many points to simply buy another Lv. 4.

Morax
13-07-2012, 16:12
Recently, as an Empire player, I've fielded my wizards in a list containing blocks of infantry and 5 man detachments of archers. If my opponent fields bs shooting troops, I put the wizards in the 5 man archer detachment and then behind my lines. Usually that -3 to hit is more then enough to deter my opponent shooting at them, pretty cheap protection for 35 points. If my opponent guns for them with templates, again it's the archers. They are likely only going to hit one model and I know that once an archer dies there goes my LoS save but it comes down to point cost and a small target making it hard to hit them on that one. If I'm facing magic missles I stick them in the block units and use the archers as a screen and as disrupters. The extra bodies come in handy when facing off against 2d6 strength 4+ hits. Lacking those I just run them around by themselves. It seems to work alright and they can stay away from combat much more easily that way.

Soundwave
13-07-2012, 16:23
Recently, as an Empire player, I've fielded my wizards in a list containing blocks of infantry and 5 man detachments of archers. If my opponent fields bs shooting troops, I put the wizards in the 5 man archer detachment and then behind my lines. Usually that -3 to hit is more then enough to deter my opponent shooting at them, pretty cheap protection for 35 points. If my opponent guns for them with templates, again it's the archers. They are likely only going to hit one model and I know that once an archer dies there goes my LoS save but it comes down to point cost and a small target making it hard to hit them on that one. If I'm facing magic missles I stick them in the block units and use the archers as a screen and as disrupters. The extra bodies come in handy when facing off against 2d6 strength 4+ hits. Lacking those I just run them around by themselves. It seems to work alright and they can stay away from combat much more easily that way.
Ahh sometimes solo behind a "bunker" also a viable tactic.One must be careful in such a situation where a certain position will leave your wizard exposed to reform from the enemy then there turn to charge!(happened to me last week ouch)

Vissah
13-07-2012, 17:00
I put my Chaos Sorcerrer in a unit of Warriors and he just moves up with them.
Sometimes he gets into combat but when I know I will charge next turn I just let him hop out of the unit and run around on his own.

Djekar
13-07-2012, 17:28
Dark Elves: I run them in Power Dice Spearmen.

Orcs: I run them in a night goblin bunker or in my savage orc big uns so not in a bunker (because you know, the lucky shrunken head isn't broken at all...)

Warriors of Chaos: No bunker. Those guys are tough and fighty - they stand and dish it with the rest of my howling loonies.

Cragum
13-07-2012, 21:01
Whats a good bunker for skaven would you say?

Lord Dan
13-07-2012, 21:08
Dark Elves: I run them in Power Dice Spearmen.

Yet it's so true!

The bearded one
13-07-2012, 22:13
My runelord (while he isn't a wizard, he's the model responsible for making sure the magic phase goes smoothly, so that counts.. I guess :) ) stands in the front rank of a unit of longbeards like a true dwarf, supplementing the longbeards offensively a tiny bit. He's tough enough to take the abuse (WS6, T5, 3 wounds, 2+ save)

pointyteeth
13-07-2012, 22:38
As a chaos warrior player, I agree with what Djeckar said. Put them in any unit and run them up with the army. Regardless of what army you play, always put the wizard on the corner of a unit. Really cuts down on casualties if you miscast.

Soundwave
14-07-2012, 05:11
Thinking long and hard well just pointing out the obvious.The slann by far have the best most safest place in the warhammer wizard world in there temple guard.2 tonnes of super heavy angry lizards that are cold blooded and stubborn.

BlackPawl
14-07-2012, 08:48
Whats a good bunker for skaven would you say?

25 clanrats with shields and a WFT or PWM and FC Or if you want it a little cheaper 30 slaves (but with the later ones you should evade any combat unit because when they break the GS is dead).

Fruhauf
14-07-2012, 11:42
Thinking long and hard well just pointing out the obvious.The slann by far have the best most safest place in the warhammer wizard world in there temple guard.2 tonnes of super heavy angry lizards that are cold blooded and stubborn.

Although my friend plays LM and I've seen the entire unit go thanks to one miscast. Large template S10 hits, no 1s rolled to save his geckos. Biggest waste of ~ 250 points

Sjwood13
14-07-2012, 13:00
Tomb Kings: in a unit of archers, between 19 and 43 depending on the build. The other option is 9 horsemen and mount the wizard. The extra 4 inches of move comes in handy at times

The bearded one
14-07-2012, 13:26
Although my friend plays LM and I've seen the entire unit go thanks to one miscast. Large template S10 hits, no 1s rolled to save his geckos. Biggest waste of ~ 250 points

And there's the reason I put my slann all the way at the flank of my unit of templeguard, rather than smack blam in the middle: http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c140/edgarschippers/DSC02419.jpg

I'm actually surprised not more people do this. I found it really quite easy to keep him out of harms way from flankers and such anyway (or intentionally keep him in the way, such as one time when 30 dark elf spears with the banner of eternal flame flanked me, as my slann has the dragonbane gem xD ).

Fruhauf
14-07-2012, 14:50
And there's the reason I put my slann all the way at the flank of my unit of templeguard, rather than smack blam in the middle: http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c140/edgarschippers/DSC02419.jpg

I'm actually surprised not more people do this. I found it really quite easy to keep him out of harms way from flankers and such anyway (or intentionally keep him in the way, such as one time when 30 dark elf spears with the banner of eternal flame flanked me, as my slann has the dragonbane gem xD ).

Makes a lot of sense, alas, my friend is also a tactical dim-wit. I'll suggest it to him, but I fear he won't think it's that good of an idea :D

Cragum
14-07-2012, 19:10
I thought the slann had to stay in the dead center of a unit of temple guard?

Soundwave
15-07-2012, 01:42
With the new rules dark pegasus,chaos demon mounts like discs and the like,normal pegasus and anything with w.b in there unit entry flying or not can rank up or sit along side units.Morathi can now use the dagger and join spearmen(power dice) for the complete tour of dark magic.

Lord Dan
15-07-2012, 04:57
How many points is that unit of Temple Guard with the Slaan, TBO? It looks massive!

Vaughnilla619
15-07-2012, 22:21
I thought the slann had to stay in the dead center of a unit of temple guard?

i was pretty sure that was a rule that he had to be in the middle of a unit of temple guard... I could be mistaken but ive never seen or heard of anyone else doing otherwise

Senbei
15-07-2012, 22:31
I used to run Necromancer VC with BIG zombie blocks. Sadly, due to the love of black-powder amongst the local gamers, the games started to boil down to *I move and raise zombies. Opponent targets my Necromancer with all his war machines. Look-out-sir rolls.*

Strangely, I don't think I ever lost... all my other units tended to make it into combat unscathed and even the Dwarf players I played sucked at hitting stuff and making leadership tests once I'd charged them. Some games I could just win because I could charge a combat lord and watch as he failed to hit anything.

Always lost against the one local savage orcs player though. ^_^

dms505
16-07-2012, 18:12
i was pretty sure that was a rule that he had to be in the middle of a unit of temple guard... I could be mistaken but ive never seen or heard of anyone else doing otherwise

Just says he stays in the second row and if possible must be surrounded. So technically you could do something like this

TTTTTTTTT
TSSTTTTTT
TSSTTTTTT
TTTTTTTTT

Most people just slap him in the middle but now that you mention it , if I run him with TG again, I may kinda offset him in case of a big boom. As long as you have a few you you can Regrowth them. Of course if you have Life your probably not going to miscast anyway. But I don't use life much so I just go Ethereal Slann and he stays all lonesome by himself.

Vaughnilla619
17-07-2012, 04:48
doesnt he have something he can take where he can ignore a miscast or re roll a miscast?

mostlyharmless
17-07-2012, 05:14
It certainly depends on the army I'm using, but in my dark elf witch cult, I'm running my level 4 sorc with the PoK, Tome of Furion, and Arabyan Carpet, since she can't join any of the units. I plan to hide her behind the great big cauldron of blood and cast augments until I need to start dishing out magical hurt.

KentishNomad
17-07-2012, 09:06
This topic is one reason why Undead are consistently a strong army list, not only is the magic potent but the low cost basic troops make protecting that magic incredibly easy.

Metacarpi
17-07-2012, 10:38
I tend to keep mine sat in a bunker of 40 Clanrats, along with the BSB. It feels kinda risky keeping both of them in the same unit, but it seems the best way to maximise the rerolls on inspiring presence.

KentishNomad
17-07-2012, 11:05
Meh, Skaven are supposed to play risky!

Soundwave
17-07-2012, 12:40
This topic is one reason why Undead are consistently a strong army list, not only is the magic potent but the low cost basic troops make protecting that magic incredibly easy.
I wish it was that easy alas, 1 round meltdowns for undead can be quite commonplace when hammered from all sides:( my poor v.c...

Djekar
17-07-2012, 17:19
Regardless of what army you play, always put the wizard on the corner of a unit. Really cuts down on casualties if you miscast.

Along these lines, I was inspired by tmarichards' use of his spearmen bunker when he ran Dark Elves. He ran them 1 deep and 20(?) wide, so that templates and miscasts were less nasty to the unit. I've been doing the same and loving it. Run the champion in the middle to pull single characters away from the wizards (who are either on the end or 1 in from the end if there are things running around your flanks). Use a musician to reform your wizards to different positions in the unit before moving, or reform into a "combat" formation and hide your wizards if you must. Very nice, indeed.

Naanomi
17-07-2012, 19:29
My ogre-casters, when they are not in the front line, tend to stand in the second rank (command on the front) of 6/9 Iron-Guts or Bulls

Soundwave
24-07-2012, 15:10
Here is a few compilations of BAD BUNKERS, i have used.
1.Dark elf sorceress in a unit of 11 crossbowmen vs high elves.(shot to death 1st turn)
2.High elf mage with 24 swordmasters (miscast,blow up prized unit)
3.Dark elf sorceress on pegasus alongside dark riders vs lizardmen.(leaves unit as it was about to be minced by saurus warriors who do the job overrun into my dark riders then reform then charge and mince her.)
4.My v.c blender lord and primary caster with blood knights.(ends up way to far away with heaps of overrun for invo to do any good and miscasts twice killing half there number:mad:)

panic_puppet
24-07-2012, 22:02
Tomb kings - my wizards generally doss around. Hierophant goes in one archer unit, regular liche priest in another (occasionally I'll stick him in with some spearmen). If I'm running a horse-priest, I tend to give him a small 7-man horse archer bunker as ablative wounds/irritation.

Bretonnia - Damsel on foot sits in a peasant brick that tends to trundle around being ignored, and one on horseback in the middle of a knight unit. Its the only sensible way to run them. If I only run 1 damsel, its points dependent (i.e. whether I have enough for the horse).

NitrosOkay
25-07-2012, 01:36
I use skeletons instead of zombies as a wizard bunker because the Zombie unit gets huge and unwieldy and impossible to maneuver really fast due all the accidental zombies you get, plus I want to save those models for my actual zombie tarpit.

Morax
25-07-2012, 12:34
I use skeletons instead of zombies as a wizard bunker because the Zombie unit gets huge and unwieldy and impossible to maneuver really fast due all the accidental zombies you get, plus I want to save those models for my actual zombie tarpit.

Same here. I find the zombies grow way too fast to keep out of my opponent's charge arcs and my caster winds up in combat, right were I don't want him to be. With skeletons I can keep the bunker at a reasonable size, say 20 models or so, which can hide nicely behind/between giant units of zombies and graveguard.

Lord Solar Plexus
25-07-2012, 14:26
Hmm. I usually keep my wizard on his own behind a block. If he's threatened, say by a flyer, I'll have him join the first available detachment. He's after all just a support model AND not supposed to get himself into trouble in some front rank. And keeping even a small detachment out of the fight kind of defeats its purpose.

Soundwave
26-07-2012, 15:19
I use skeletons instead of zombies as a wizard bunker because the Zombie unit gets huge and unwieldy and impossible to maneuver really fast due all the accidental zombies you get, plus I want to save those models for my actual zombie tarpit.

Yeah i am yet to see a zombie unit not be the deathtrap of a vampire.

dark7element
04-08-2012, 02:26
Speaking as a newer-than-new Tomb Kings player (IE only some of the models are purchased and they're still in boxes), I was thinking that blocks of skeleton spearmen led by Tomb Kings would be an okay place for high-values wizards to hang out. They can cast spells while the skeletons slowly walk forward, and when they get close to the enemy, they can disengage and go off on their own.

It seems like archers would be a bad place to put them, since cavalry can mow them down in a single round.