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Rated_lexxx
13-07-2012, 20:19
I have been trying to find in the 6th rule book to see if they still have wysiwyg. I haven't been able to find it. If there is what page is it on

bad dice
13-07-2012, 21:14
It should not be a rule at all.

eldar pathfinder are eldar pathfinders

a marine whit a melta is a marine whit a melta

Why would you even want to do it in a other way?

I mean if you play whit friends you can do what ever the heck you want anny way

And if you would like to break wysiwyg at pick up games and tournaments, your just makeing it more confusing to the other guy

Around here we call that beeing a ****.

murgel2006
13-07-2012, 21:16
explicitly it is just stated with power-weapons.
And in one small box

Rated_lexxx
13-07-2012, 22:39
It should not be a rule at all.

eldar pathfinder are eldar pathfinders

a marine whit a melta is a marine whit a melta

Why would you even want to do it in a other way?

I mean if you play whit friends you can do what ever the heck you want anny way

And if you would like to break wysiwyg at pick up games and tournaments, your just makeing it more confusing to the other guy

Around here we call that beeing a ****.




I hate it to but it was one of things I noticed I hadn't read in the new rule book

chromedog
14-07-2012, 04:53
It's not a rule, but a "convention" (unspoken understanding) that the model is representative on the tabletop.
It's generally only a rule in relation to upgrades being shown. A marine HAS a bolter, bolt pistol frag and krak grenades (he can't NOT have them). So technically they don't need to be shown because he will always have them. If you upgrade that marine to a heavy weapon or special weapon, then you should show it on the model (as it doesn't always have to have that upgrade).

ehlijen
14-07-2012, 05:30
Even in 5th ed, the wysiwyg rule was really just in the codices where it explains how to spend points on an army; it mentions that ugrades must/should be shown on characters.

Egaeus
14-07-2012, 07:16
Even in 5th ed, the wysiwyg rule was really just in the codices where it explains how to spend points on an army; it mentions that ugrades must/should be shown on characters.

I was going to mention this earlier myself, but since the OP was asking about 6th specifically (and since I don't have the rulebook yet to answer properly) I chose not to...interestingly enough, I did look at the Grey Knights Codex and the only thing I really could find was under "Army List Entries" where is says to look in the Mustering the Knights section for "the Citadel miniatures you will need to represent them". Although I didn't go through the codex with a fine tooth comb, the army list "splash page" is where I am accustomed to finding the rules that say (usually, at least) that models must be WYSIWYG, at least usually for equipment.

@ bad dice: Some people like to do "counts as" where models are used to represent other things. Obviously in such a situation it's not at all WYSIWYG, but, depending on the player it's not meant to be purposefully misleading.

Sithlord
14-07-2012, 09:42
So far it's just power weapons/force weapons that are WYSIWYG (for obvious reason, power/force weapons have their own little world with same point cost, blarrghhh). Doesn't mention on equipment though.

In my localized games, equipment may be 'count as' while special and heavy weapons must be represented with their exact weapons, and the character/Independent character may have different weapons/equipment despite the models is not represent them (because they are characters and most of local gamers at my place, wish for them be different than any gruntz they lead :p )

yabbadabba
14-07-2012, 09:52
You only need wysiwyg in tournaments. Anywhere else and it is down to the discretion of the players involved. There is a danger you end up with something like this ;)

145200

Tarax
14-07-2012, 10:23
It's not a rule, but a "convention" (unspoken understanding) that the model is representative on the tabletop.

Basically this. Your opponent should reasonably know what he is facing. Of course you can explain beforehand what is what, but mid-game you still want to know what that model is and is equiped with.

AndrewGPaul
14-07-2012, 10:56
WYSIWYG is implicit in every miniatures game, I would think - otherwise, why would I even bother using miniatures? :) There are exceptions for interesting conversions, cases where the appropriate miniature doesn't exist (Infinity is a big offender in this case) and small bits of equipment (grenades and other fiddly bits).

Wishing
14-07-2012, 21:59
WYSIWYG is implicit in every miniatures game, I would think - otherwise, why would I even bother using miniatures? :) There are exceptions for interesting conversions, cases where the appropriate miniature doesn't exist (Infinity is a big offender in this case) and small bits of equipment (grenades and other fiddly bits).

Agreed. Whether it is written in the rulebook or not is irrelevant, since people will play whatever way they want in casual games, and whatever way the TO decrees in tournament games. Everyone who plays a game like this understands that WYSIWYG has nothing to do with the mechanics of the game, and is only to do with whether the players involved are cool with proxies or not.

Rated_lexxx
14-07-2012, 22:01
You only need wysiwyg in tournaments. Anywhere else and it is down to the discretion of the players involved. There is a danger you end up with something like this ;)

145200

For casual games it's not a problem, but for tournies it's where it gets sticky. In fifth there was a big block of text talking about it

Freman Bloodglaive
15-07-2012, 02:13
You only need wysiwyg in tournaments. Anywhere else and it is down to the discretion of the players involved. There is a danger you end up with something like this ;)

145200

He has everything including the kitchen sink.

I don't suppose that's a manufactured model, rather than a really good conversion.

yabbadabba
15-07-2012, 08:05
Its a GW model mate. It was called "the Complete Adventurer" or similar.

IJW
15-07-2012, 09:15
In fifth there was a big block of text talking about it

Sort of. 5th edition had a small box about being able to see the right equipment on characters and that this was called 'WYSIWYG'.

WYSIWYG in modern editions of 40k has come almost purely from codices (where it's mostly been dropped) and from tournament packs.

MusingWarboss
04-11-2013, 21:03
Hello, new here so just chipping in on this!

From my experience WYSIWYG is a convenience thing for both players, you know what you've got and so does your opponent. As has been said above its perfectly possible to agree beforehand any alterations to equipment, it only gets problematic when huge swathes of the army is counting-as something else! Then it becomes a logistical memory exercise.

It also kinda depends on rules era and models available - take three of my Slugga and Choppa boys for example, under 6th they are as described above but if I want to dust off my copy of 2nd then WYSIWYG says that I've got one with an axe, one with a large knife and one with a chainsword, all different weapon profiles and a lot more chart referencing! I could counts-as all axe for swifter gaming but then it's not adhering WYSIWYG if that's important.

I think if you're in a competition or tournament then it makes sense as its fairer for both parties but if you're into casual games then its fine to substitute - a house rule my friends and I have is that the weapon type is somewhat close to what you're after, I.e a flamer representing a meltagun or a machine gun of some description is a stubber/h.bolter/etc. rather than a guy with a laspistol representing a multimelta for example.

I always found Necromunda (a bit OT sorry) was a pain for WYSIWYG as GW didn't even provide a full range of options for each gang and as they were mostly one piece metal minis were hard to convert, even with metal weapons available. So a mini represented a character after a while, irrespective of their equipment (which was on the roster sheet and available to each player to inspect anyway). 40k (any version) on the other hand has always been far easier to represent WYSIWYG strictly as it has a larger range of miniatures and bits!

IcedAnimals
04-11-2013, 23:54
As someone whos first games of warhammer was me playing "undead" using a mix up of actual vampire models leading regiments of saurus and dark elves. And even getting friends into the hobby if they wanted 4 missile launchers and I only had las/plas "counts as" was all too common. So I have grown up playing the game where you have to explain what models are what more often than you can tell simply by what is on the model. I still to this day use stormbolters as "combi weapons".

The important part is that your opponent knows what is what. Not so much that it is on the model. As long as my opponent knows that the block of ramshackle assembled saurus was a unit of zombies all is good. The confusion can come in when you have a melta gun in one squad using a melta gun model. But in another squad as a multi melta or a flamer. That can be confusing. But with my stormbolters for example. I simply state "all stormbolters are combi weapons" its easy to remember.

My point being that the old rule was there to prevent confusion. Follow it or not, you should also try to design your armies around preventing confusion.

corps
05-11-2013, 01:17
It s not even requires in some tournament or in convention or in club. That's why the "count as" things started. the reasons are differents but here a few.

1 - if player has to play every minis has WYSIWYG equipped then the budget necessary for it will explodes with the consequences that the number of player able to do so will diwndle.
2 - Some player just like to convert and paint, so when they do play the don't use magnet glue weapon on vehicule or not fixed weapons. They spend to much time on it.
3 - sometime especially before the lawsuit case some models didn't exist or some weapon didn't exist. just on example let s say that the grav gun model don't exist but exist on the list. By playing WYSIWYG you can't deployed them. Because there is "no count as" your plasma gun don't count as grav gun.
4 - it s easier to go WYSIWYG on a skirmish game, except for point two and three. Especially with metal model. Remenber the Cawdor from Necromunda? there list count many close combat weapons yet they all cary long range rifle exept the juves.

It was harder to convert metal and not every one like it. so etheir you use count as and you tell other what they carry and use or you have to convert. Not everyone is willing to spend moday on several time the same model just to adjust to it s evolution in game. Etheir you convert and it s bother you to play WYSIWYG or you don't even care and you don't convert.

It s easier with plastic model but even with plastic i don't see many people wasting boxes for just a dozen model.

I admit however that a middle ground do exist. It s unacceptable to see a troll of mordor use as a tervigon. Here a minimum of common senses is needed.

Chem-Dog
05-11-2013, 05:20
Hello, new here so just chipping in on this!

From my experience WYSIWYG is a convenience thing for both players, you know what you've got and so does your opponent. As has been said above its perfectly possible to agree beforehand any alterations to equipment, it only gets problematic when huge swathes of the army is counting-as something else! Then it becomes a logistical memory exercise.

Welcome to WarSeer :)

Whilst you're right I think it's important to make a distinction between "Counts As" and a "Proxy".
"Counts as" is predominantly an attempt to allow models without stats a chance to participate, usually as a way of using non standard models or possibly as some high-concept army, these will often be painstakingly honed to represent what they are counting as quite closely although your mileage may vary with what is a reasonable representation of any particular upgrade. It's safe to say that "Counts As" is usually a lot less taxing to remember what's what.
Proxy is when a miniature or miniatures are directly substituted for others, Most of us have done it when we've not had a chance to buy/build/paint the desired squad yet, to road-test said unit before dropping the cash on them or because we simply forgot to pack that one unit when we were getting our models ready, in such cases it's not unreasonable to make the unit a little flag of scrap paper stating what the unit represents.

ehlijen
05-11-2013, 06:41
The Wysiwyg rule should basically read as follows:

"While some see 40k as merely a wargame, others enjoy it as a multilayerd hobby, enaging in modeling, painting and gaming. To such people, the game simply is more enjoyable if both sides make their best efforts to increase immersion by playing with models that are painted and assembled appropriately to their army."

AndrewGPaul
05-11-2013, 08:02
I'm all for WYSIWYG - for me, at least. If my opponent would prefer to be more flexible, then I'll suck it up and get on with it.

For me, that means I'll field what models I have, not what I want. That's especially true of my 2nd edition Imperial Guard army, which is full of things like Infantry Squads with flamers and heavy bolters, or Heavy Weapon Squads with two lascannon and a mortar.

The only exceptions are weapon options not covered in the army list, where my opponent is unwilling to let me field them as-is (Platoon Command Squad Junior Officers with shotguns, for instance, or Commissars with sword, power fist and pistol).

MusingWarboss
05-11-2013, 10:33
Welcome to WarSeer :)

Whilst you're right I think it's important to make a distinction between "Counts As" and a "Proxy".
"Counts as" is predominantly an attempt to allow models without stats a chance to participate, usually as a way of using non standard models or possibly as some high-concept army, these will often be painstakingly honed to represent what they are counting as quite closely although your mileage may vary with what is a reasonable representation of any particular upgrade. It's safe to say that "Counts As" is usually a lot less taxing to remember what's what.
Proxy is when a miniature or miniatures are directly substituted for others, Most of us have done it when we've not had a chance to buy/build/paint the desired squad yet, to road-test said unit before dropping the cash on them or because we simply forgot to pack that one unit when we were getting our models ready, in such cases it's not unreasonable to make the unit a little flag of scrap paper stating what the unit represents.

Thanks Chem-Dog, great to be here at last and not just reading anymore. Not sure why I didn't join up sooner.

Yes, you're totally right, proxy was the word I was after! Talking of counts as though, I am working on a scratch built Gobsmasha RTWD style, which will be counting-as a looted vehicle - so I should have got that right!

I think proxying is a bit of a right of passage when your first start out - not enough miniatures so conscript a few others in! My first games of 2nd were with the box set contents plus a few Heroquest Orcs and the RT bits I already had, which weren't many. Thankfully I've got enough actual minis now to not have to anymore.

As long as everyone's clear as to what's actually on the table it should be ok, I don't think WYSIWYG need to be harshly enforced for the sake of it, that kinda sucks the fun out of playing especially in casual games.

As a Cawdor player for Necromunda I long gave up on the idea of converting those metal guys clutching basic weapons to their chests, it's just easier to get other models in for the hand to hand ones, and after a campaign started we all decided that the actual miniature was just a physical representation of an individual and not a literal one as you'd be swapping guys around every few games otherwise and if you'd not been against a gang for a game or so you'd end up having to reacquaint yourself with who was who as the model could have changed a couple of times if we'd been totally literal. Plus of course you do tend to get an affection for certain models after a while because of the role-play aspect of the game. There's a guy called Underhand on 40kOnline who worked out how many models you'd need to actually have a gang with all possible weapon options and it gets to small army size!

I'll stop banging on about Necromunda now as this was about 40k 6th and I don't want to be that guy who keeps going OT - especially as I've just joined!!

Reasonable Commissar
05-11-2013, 15:13
The main things I would usually go for counts as would be different types of combi weapon and perhaps the odd special or heavy weapon. Combi weapons are especially a pain as it means having 3-4xs the amount of a model just to get all the combi weapon options in and thats not really that feaseable. Or if I have 5 melta guns and 5 flamers but this list Im using I want to try 8 meltas.

Chem-Dog
05-11-2013, 23:05
As a Cawdor player for Necromunda I long gave up on the idea of converting those metal guys clutching basic weapons to their chests,

Oh God-Emperor tell me about it! A melee oriented Gang equipped with nothing but basics, why-oh-why couldn't Jes Goodwyn have done the Cawdor range? All those lovely Escher models clutching pistols and CCW's..... [/OT] :shifty:

NurglesRot
05-11-2013, 23:57
WYSIWYG has always been more of a courtesy than anything else. It's also helpful to eliminate the "jumping wargear syndrome" that some dubious players will use.

"Oh you killed that model thinking he had a plasma gun? No, this model over here had it instead"

Generally I don't fuss too much about it but I understand when other players do. I always make sure my armies are WYSIWIG anyway, not just for a gaming point of view but for my own aesthetics and army cohesion.

AndrewGPaul
06-11-2013, 14:45
It saves having to bring a written army list if everything is displayed on the miniatures. :)

Nazguire
06-11-2013, 23:31
WYSIWYG is great to adhere to and should be adhered to wherever possible. If you have a counts as or a proxy that you can agree on with the other player because you or they have lovingly converted something, for example, then that's fantastic too! But WYSIWYG can help protect you against unscrupulous players who like to do things like "no he's actually a daemon prince, not a Dark Apostle." Or "that is actually a dark lance, not a splinter cannon"

Beppo1234
08-11-2013, 12:34
WYSIWYG I think would be an official rule, but for the primary target market of the product. Youth generally have limited consumer surplus, limiting them in their ability to pick up the right bits for WYSIWYG. GW cannot make this a solid rule for the whole system because of this. But you can see they want to through theie new boxes which contain all or most available options for a given unit. But even then, it's difficult to do a perfect WYSIWYG army, depending on the individual's personal desires for their army make up.

Camman1984
08-11-2013, 13:24
I agree with the wargear hoping problem. If i havent finished a model i wont have stuck the bolters etc so (if the bolter/special weapon wont jusy balance snugly) what i do is put a paint mark on the base for my special weapon or say 'the beakies have my flamers' which seems to work

I have played against people who hop their special weapons around, even hop their veteran sergeants around to avoid death. Its rude and poors gamesmanship. The ultimate in that poor play is the one guy who no longer plays cos his opponents dried up. He had space marines and would only glue the legs, torso, head and backpack on. This wasnt a one off or 'just until painted' it was permanent. When he deployed you wouldnt know what anything was other than a very quick blurb at the start and if you forgot (or he changed mind) it was your fault. He would often change the whole chapter too depending on his opponent.

I do prefer a wysiwyg but i am flexible and so are most of my friends.

corps
08-11-2013, 14:45
Youth generally have limited consumer surplus, It s not just the youth. the student have their loan. The senior have their family... yes the effort from GW is good but players use the spare part for conversion, exchange, or save them for latter. Some like me just do that and prefer not swap weapon but glue everything because again painting is more important than the other aspect of the hobby. I just finished a suad and i use a flamer because it looks good on the fig. I like it that way but of course if i use i as a plasma gun i will tell my opponents abut it. heck i even give the list to muy oponents as to whitch minis has what with a identified number on the base. I m WYSIWYG only by accident when my minis you the same weapons as the one i wanted for her. I m also very clear of what i use so it s not like if i was sying yes i the white dwarf because my imperial colonel is short... (unless it s a 30.000 games and i played the imperial army of Outremar)

SpanielBear
08-11-2013, 15:14
I try to WYSIWYG as much as possible, giving guardsmen grenades, making sure power weapons look different from regular swords and so on. But...
I love kit bashing. Unashamedly. And if I see a good combo, I'll go with it and 'counts-as' rather than lose out on a cool-looking model.

For example, my current Dark Eldar army is meant to reflect the really alien, fae, blue-and-orange morality and terror the race represents. With that in mind, I wanted to make the leader of my hellions stand out, and found an old empire wizard sprue in my bits box- including the scythe head covered in roses. A bit of chopping later, and the Helliarch is armed with a scythe with a splinter pistol built into the base.

As no rules exist for 'cool looking scythe' in the dark eldar army, it counts as an agoniser- power weapon wounding on 3's seeming quite appropriate- and splinter pistol.

Obviously I would make sure an opponent was aware of the change, and hopefully the model stands out enough that I can't get away with any "no I meant c" tricks- not that I'd pull those anyway.

For me WYSIWYG is often a drive towards converting, making sure the model 'looks right', even if the actual components aren't available to me- hence my al-Rahem counts as with a zwei-hander, or the Hydra made from a chimera, sentinel and auto-cannons- ALL the auto-cannons!!!

AndrewGPaul
08-11-2013, 15:38
Trying to make sure you have every possible combination of wargear covered is more trouble than it's worth for me. :) I just build the models with what I like the look of and then use them like that.

SanDiegoSurrealist
08-11-2013, 21:32
Screw WYSIWYG I would be happy to just play against someone else who has a fully painted army.
When in all black primer who can tell what is on the model anyway?
Want a good unwritten rule "Paint your **** before you put it on the table!"

MusingWarboss
08-11-2013, 21:45
Screw WYSIWYG I would be happy to just play against someone else who has a fully painted army.
When in all black primer who can tell what is on the model anyway?
Want a good unwritten rule "Paint your **** before you put it on the table!"

Some clubs employ a three colour rule - as in you must have three distinct colours painted onto your model, not including base, in order to play.

I understand some tournaments have a similar rule, and must be based, though it varies between them.

Perhaps though they're taking WYSIWYG to its literal level - you're seeing exactly what you get - little plastic soldiers! ;)

13713
08-11-2013, 22:20
Nothing wrong with a good WYSIWYG when combined with a well painted miniature and an EIEIO. Honestly if the model even halfway resembles what it is supposed to be and is painted I am more than impressed.

Although lately a lot of newer players are coming to the table with painted armies.

Camman1984
09-11-2013, 10:28
The whole painted army thing is another debate altogether. Sometimes its hard to have the time to have an army fully painted to the standard you want, luckily my group dont mind as long as you can see what the model is and i am far from the least painted.

Grentain
09-11-2013, 23:48
It's kind of frustrating to me that sometimes GW releases models that are just flat-out not WYSIWYG. The Finecast Farseer, for example, comes with two witchblades.

And then there's the times when your codex changes, and makes you have to cut the EMLs off of your entire army, because for whatever reason they became obnoxiously expensive and completely inferior to virtually every other heavy weapon option in your army. I still haven't had the heart to clip the EMLs off my Wraithlords to replace them with Bright Lances, yet, so I just let my opponent know that all three of my lords are exactly the same - Two lances, two Flamers, and a Ghostglaive.

bork da basher
16-11-2013, 05:19
All armies should have an army list without fail. If I dont know u and we are playing I will probably ask u to make one...definitely if its unclear what your models are or if its unclear on wargear. Ive had too many cheaters make stuff up midgame to waste my time on opponents like that.

IMO you should have a bare minimum of a fully assembled model or unit to use it in game. Im a fan of converting pretty much everything I get my hands on but its always clear what my intentions for the model are. Even so I will explain myself fully before hand. For example ive just made a farseer on jetbike...his jetbike is a floating grav platform I converted similar to how a disc of tzeentch would look just...wraithboney. Its mounted on a jetbike flying base and its dimensions are more or the less the same so it fits the theme and offers no advantage a bike wouldnt offer. Id go as far as to refuse to play against an army without arms or unclear special or heavy weapons etc. Its just too open for shenanigans and its not upto me to spend additional effort keeping track of what im fighting if the opponent cant be bothered or refuses to play the game as its intended....especially as a shady attempt to gain advantage over you.

Im a perfectionist and take a lot of pride in building great looking armies. I wouldnt dream of using them half assembled or shoddily painted. It goes against the grain for me and i cant help but judge poorly players who just cant be bothered to try or worse deliberately avoid at least glueing their models together. I also think its about being courteous to your opponent and turning up with the right things you need to play and treating other gamers how youd want to be treated. Its down to what your prepared to deal with my personal list of BS I will put up with has shrank dramatically over the years.

In my group its house rules you bring or make an armylist before the game and you explain anything not absolutely clear to your opponant. Were all friends and we all do it out of respect. ..it should be the same with strangers at the club or whereever I think.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Harwammer
16-11-2013, 12:11
I use the codex to put my models on the table, rather than my models to put the codex on the table.

WarzonePlayer
16-11-2013, 18:38
I've always seen WYSIWYG as simply good manners when gaming and never understand why some flat out refuse to follow it, its simply being polite on the table, avoiding nasty surprises and arguments

Zustiur
17-11-2013, 01:13
In years gone by, I simply didn't have the money to do wysiwyg, particularly as I was the sole person putting money into the hobby for both players. We used virtually entire armies of 'counts as', including books as tanks, lego men as infantry and paint pots as bikes.

These days I'm in a much better position, and I now have a personal rule that only 3 models in total may differ from their physical equipment. If I find I'm using the same swaps regularly, I'll go out of my way to build that model correctly, which is why I've just scratch built 2 combi weapons and a power armour lightning claw. I'm more strict on myself than I am on my opponents, and I feel that's pretty much how everyone should take it. Try to have the right models. If you can't afford them yet, try to get them by the next game, or the game after. I'd rather play against grey plastic the black primer though, it's just easier to pick out details that way.

Dkoz
17-11-2013, 07:13
WYSIWYG is good practice if you can afford the models and if you decided on an army build, but if your still experimenting then I say stand ins are acceptable for a few games.

bork da basher
17-11-2013, 10:33
I honestly dont think money should be a factor. If your in the hobby at all you have disposable income of some kind. Its expensive and all but if you cant afford your army then why should your opponent suffer because of that. Why not just play with paper cut outs. If your in a group who is comfortable with u doing that then fine but in a club situation where ur playing a stranger I really wouldnt want to play an army of standins or whatever because I wouldnt enjoy the game. A unit or charecter u want to proxy or test out fine ok but I think much more is pushing what's acceptable for me.



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WarzonePlayer
17-11-2013, 10:38
That and with all these plastic kits, does a reason exist not to be WYSIWYG?, everything comes in the kits and can be interchanged

corps
17-11-2013, 11:08
That and with all these plastic kits, does a reason exist not to be WYSIWYG?, everything comes in the kits and can be interchanged Plenty, in facts. Plenty, first of all even plastics box are expensive. Granted, they have more option but even with that it doesn't cover everything. And it s still the same for paint. if ou like your IG sergeant with a bolt pistol but in the next game you want to use a las pistol. you don't wan't to change and reglue the gun. That's not a exensive one example. But Let's say you have a box of centurtion and you want to play them as centurion and the next time to use assault centurion what will you do buying new ones? 62 euros a box in France, 47.50 pound in England, 78 Dollars in USA. That' s prety expensive WYSIWYG. It gest worst with vehicule and not just for the sponson. If i like the look of a vehicule with some weapons i won't use magnet, i will glue them.

One solution i have adopted is to paint numbers and letters on the base of a minis. like 1 C IG HQ or 2BG/a/b HQ for number one Colonel Imperial Guard headquarter. or second minis bodyguard a/b of imperial headquarter. Then i write a word paper board with the list of minis and what they carry/ use and i give a copy of that list to my opponent. In case of doubt we just have to checked the code on the base and find it on the list. When one minis is dead i just have to write if off from the list. If my opponent want to bother with is copy that just fine.

WarzonePlayer
17-11-2013, 11:19
Yeah...but can't you just use magnets to swap things around?, or trade bits you need with other players?, or buy the bits seperately at a lower cost than buying a box?, or cast parts you need more of with instamold?

yabbadabba
17-11-2013, 11:37
Plenty, in facts. Plenty, first of all even plastics box are expensive. Granted, they have more option but even with that it doesn't cover everything. And it s still the same for paint. if ou like your IG sergeant with a bolt pistol but in the next game you want to use a las pistol. you don't wan't to change and reglue the gun. That's not a exensive one example. But Let's say you have a box of centurtion and you want to play them as centurion and the next time to use assault centurion what will you do buying new ones? 62 euros a box in France, 47.50 pound in England, 78 Dollars in USA. That' s prety expensive WYSIWYG. It gest worst with vehicule and not just for the sponson. If i like the look of a vehicule with some weapons i won't use magnet, i will glue them.

One solution i have adopted is to paint numbers and letters on the base of a minis. like 1 C IG HQ or 2BG/a/b HQ for number one Colonel Imperial Guard headquarter. or second minis bodyguard a/b of imperial headquarter. Then i write a word paper board with the list of minis and what they carry/ use and i give a copy of that list to my opponent. In case of doubt we just have to checked the code on the base and find it on the list. When one minis is dead i just have to write if off from the list. If my opponent want to bother with is copy that just fine. Yeah, but there is nothing new there, it has always been an issue with GW games and models. Again, in a tight gaming group, WYSIWYG matters far less than in one offs and tournaments which is where information sheets are fine, even just a nod, a word and an understanding will do.

If you want to get the best use for your money you are going to have to be creative, as you have always been.

corps
17-11-2013, 11:38
I m a painter and a fluff amateur first. So no, i won't use magnet. I made a Stormlord i won't use magnet to make it a Baneblade. On a lesser scale, i like the look of my Leman Russ with sponson. even if i don't use the sponson i won't remove them. In the end what bother me mostly with WYSIWYG is that it' s too often used as a weapon to force other players who can't afford to buy more minis to abandon option. "Hey its, WYSIWYG here so no your sergeant don't have a bolt pistol it has a laspistol! So it s a laspistol, period..."

WYSIWYG, is not the extreme, i have seen the most simply because in twenty years of gaming,WYSIWYG player loose as quickly as "count as" player their opponents/friends. WYSIWYG is a extreme. Count as is a extreme. As i said before i will probably as much upset by a WYSIWYG player that insist that my mini is holding a laspitol so i can't play it like a bolt pistol than by someone who come with a box of cofee and say this my dreadnought or yes my tyranid prince count as a dreadnought.

This debate is as old as the game itself, it will never end. All i know it s that if you want to keep playing compromise between this two extreme must be found. Otherwise you can a) stay alone b) go to a "count as group where everything is everything c) WYSIWYG where there is no variations even the smallest one and d) well whatever you want for d.

DoctorTom
18-11-2013, 18:02
That and with all these plastic kits, does a reason exist not to be WYSIWYG?, everything comes in the kits and can be interchanged

That's not strictly true - conversion beamers for models that can use them haven't been included. For that matter, Masters of the Forge haven't been equipped with grav pistol options (one for the left and one for the right hand, since they can pay the power axe tax and take two). Also, some kits only have options for a limited number of models and you'd need a second box or a bitz store (where unfortunately GW cracked down and closed the bigger ones of these) to get them and you aren't planning on having a second box just to get a couple of guns.

squeekenator
19-11-2013, 00:16
As no rules exist for 'cool looking scythe' in the dark eldar army, it counts as an agoniser- power weapon wounding on 3's seeming quite appropriate- and splinter pistol.

Might be a typo but just in case, agonisers wound on 4s, not 3s.

SpanielBear
19-11-2013, 00:21
Typo indeed. Still a nice weapon though!