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SilentTempest
14-07-2012, 05:03
Okay, so I keep hearing that mixed units of Skinks and Kroxigor are immune to stomp.

Can anyone please explain this to me? I assume it's something to do with that the Stomp description limits it to stomping infantry, warbeasts or swarms, and that the Skrox aren't technically any of those because they're a mixed unit. Is there any clarification on what unit type the Skrox count as? I've read they're considered Unique, but does it actually say this anywhere? In my mind, logically, the stompers should just be able to stomp the skinks, given the skinks are taking the hits for the Kroxigor anyway...

papabearshane
14-07-2012, 05:23
Look in the lizzardman FAQs its in there.

Eppe
14-07-2012, 09:23
Mixed unit = immune

Ulthwe's Tears
14-07-2012, 09:50
Well technically as a mixed unit they become the Unique unit type which is immune to stomp.

The bearded one
14-07-2012, 14:55
Yeah, it's a bit of a supersilly FAQ, but because the unit consists of infantry and monstrous infantry, it is a 'mixed unit', and therefor the 'unique' unittype, and can't be stomped.

zak
14-07-2012, 17:33
My personal opinion is that the skinks should be able to be stomped. But then a lot of the FAQ's seem to baffle me. But rules are rules and it's a mixed unit so can't be stomped.

Lord Dan
14-07-2012, 23:53
You think that's bad, go talk to some skaven players about their giant rat packs.

T10
18-07-2012, 15:51
Yeah, it's a bit of a supersilly FAQ, but because the unit consists of infantry and monstrous infantry, it is a 'mixed unit', and therefor the 'unique' unittype, and can't be stomped.

You can have a mixed unit of, say, a Vampire on foot and some Direwolves, and that's a unit of mixed troop types right there: Infantry and Warbeasts. Both are individually "stompable", but as a mixed unit they are "unique".

-T10

The bearded one
18-07-2012, 17:04
You can have a mixed unit of, say, a Vampire on foot and some Direwolves, and that's a unit of mixed troop types right there: Infantry and Warbeasts. Both are individually "stompable", but as a mixed unit they are "unique".

-T10

stupid, isn't it?

skaven ratpacks are 'unique' too, right? Rats being warbeasts and packmasters infantry. Or are the rats infantry too?

Lord Dan
18-07-2012, 18:26
Infantry, I'm almost certain.

Moss
18-07-2012, 18:34
Warbeasts. I'm completely certain.

Ulthwe's Tears
18-07-2012, 18:41
To be fair, rats could apply to both elements of the rat pack unit ;) . But I do understand why they made this ruling - stomps are distributed as shooting and so would have to be randomised, adding another layer to the rolling.

Lord Cedric
18-07-2012, 18:48
Warbeasts. I'm completely certain.

Yes, Moss is correct. They are indeed War Beasts.

- Lord Cedric

kefkah
18-07-2012, 22:21
So i could join a unit of 30 infantry with a mounted general and make em unstompable?.

Moss
18-07-2012, 22:53
I can't find anything in the rulebook or FAQ/Errata about mounted characters and infantry units being "mixed" or "unique." Actually, I can't find any label for them at all, so I assume they retain their original troop type (mounted model in an infantry unit).

The bearded one
18-07-2012, 22:56
They're 2 trooptypes in 1 unit. This is the same logic that is applied to the "giant rat+packmaster = mixed" idea, which isn't adressed in the rulebook or FAQ either. The only one that is specifically adressed in any rules anywhere, is the skink-kroxigor unit. People extend this concept to other mixed units, using the skink-krox ruling as precedent.

T10
20-07-2012, 08:17
I can't find anything in the rulebook or FAQ/Errata about mounted characters and infantry units being "mixed" or "unique." Actually, I can't find any label for them at all, so I assume they retain their original troop type (mounted model in an infantry unit).

That's because nowhere does the rules or any FAQ address the issue of mixed units and their "unit troop type", except for the Skink/Krox mix which some guy decided to answer based on some rules he apparently made up on the spot. Either the FAQ is completely wrong, or there is an unspoken rule that models of mixed troop types form units that have the Unique "unit troop type".


You seem to infer that the model being a character has something to do with it, presumably that he can be discounted when working out the "unit troop type". This has rather weird ramifications. A unit consisting only of characters would contain models with clearly defined troop types, but their "unit troop type" would be undefined, possibly defaulting to "unique". Maybe this works fine if there's a mix of character models with different troop types, but often a unit of characters consists models of a common troop type, or even just a single character model.

"That Elf Wizard over there is an Infantry model, but since he's all alone he's a Unique unit: He can't enter buidings and he can't be stomped!" Sure.

-T10

Blkc57
23-07-2012, 12:58
So i could join a unit of 30 infantry with a mounted general and make em unstompable?.
The Answer according to Games Workshop is NO. A character joining a unit can never change its troop type. I wish they would have put this in a more clear spot, yet for some reason (like their bizarre invention of the concept of a "mixed unit" is hidden in the Lizardmen FAQ), the ruling is buried in the middle of one army book's FAQ section. It would be far more helpful to have placed these things in the FAQ for the main rulebook, but whatever. For Anyone wanting to know its found on Page 8 of the Skaven FAQ and I quote...
Skaven FAQ 1.5

Note that adding a character to a unit of a different troop type will not make that unit unique, it’s troop type will be unchanged.

So putting a cavalry hero in an infantry unit does not change it to Unique. Its mind boggling why they do this, the individual army book FAQs seem like the wrong place to put this type of important info.

LiddellHart
23-07-2012, 13:08
Good find!
And relieved another crack is sealed.

Blkc57
23-07-2012, 13:26
I just find it disturbing that I have to comb across multiple different army book FAQs and then piece them together in order to get the complete ruling surrounding this concept of a "mixed unit" and what makes something unique become Unique. I have to practically unlock the Da Vinci Code in order to play this game it seems.

I guess that leaves only Skaven Moulder packs and Krox/Skink love fests as the only real "mixed units" of Warhammer, unless I'm forgetting something else?

T10
23-07-2012, 14:09
Good find!
And relieved another crack is sealed.

Actually, that opens up a lot more cracks. To quote myself:


(GW seems) to infer that the model being a character has something to do with it, presumably that he can be discounted when working out the "unit troop type". This has rather weird ramifications. A unit consisting only of characters would contain models with clearly defined troop types, but their "unit troop type" would be undefined, possibly defaulting to "unique". Maybe this works fine if there's a mix of character models with different troop types, but often a unit of characters consists models of a common troop type, or even just a single character model.

What is the troop type of a unit consisting of a cavalry character model and an infantry character model?

-T10

Lord Dan
23-07-2012, 15:29
I believe they are now defined as anti-matter.

thelawl
23-07-2012, 21:50
could i get the faq and page number for this mixed unit = unique unit? is it rulebook faq or a specific army book faq?

Ximinipot
23-07-2012, 22:02
It's buried in the Lizardmen FAQ. And in the Skaven FAQ.

T10
23-07-2012, 22:29
In my opinion the rules for Stomps attacks should not involve the "unit troop type" at all. Instead the attacking model should simply direct their stomp attacks against a unit it is in contact with. As it is, Stomp attacks are hits that are allocated as shooting, so the owning player should allocate the hits accordingly. Any hits allocated to models that cannot be stomped should be discounted. This would mean that these kind of models could serve to provide a measure of protection against stomp attacks.


Example I: A unit of 50 halberdiers joined by a warrior priest on a warhorse and a wizard on foot and the unit is fighting a dragon. The dragon's Thunderstomp attack causes 6 hits on the unit. The Empire player allocates the first hit to the warrior priest (this is effectively discounted) and the remaining five hits to halberdier models. The unit champion and the wizard cannot be allocated any hits since there are more than 5 rank-and-file models of the same troop type in the unit.

Example II: A unit of 4 Trolls have been joined by an Orc Big Boss on foot are fighting a unit of Ogres. Unless the Ogres can bring 5 or more Ogres into base contact with the unit then the Orc character is safe from being stomped as long as the Orcs & Goblins player allocates the Stomp attack hits to the Trolls first.

I personally think this is an awesome way to handle Stomp attacks and mixed units.

-T10