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SilentTempest
14-07-2012, 09:02
Greetings folks.

So, after a bit of a hiatus from the game (I stopped during 7th edition), a friend and I have come back to 8th edition and taken up where we left off.

I was a Wood Elf player, with my friend being an Orcs and Goblins player.

During 7th, I favoured a multiple small units (MSU) approach, fielding pretty much everything in a minimum unit, and dancing around until I'd worn him down a little and was in position to rout a unit with a well-timed multi-charge. My mate had struggled to combat this for a while, but eventually got the hang of keeping me from flanking him, and games because more competitive, although I think I probably still won a bit more than he did.

I suppose at this point I'll mention that my choice of Wood Elves is because I tend to like, in any game I play, using the fast, light selection, that utilises good mobility to their advantage.

Now we find ourselves in 8th edition. Obviously the new edition has not particularly favoured the Wood Elves, and probably even less so with respect to the playstyle I had used in 7th (that being the aforementioned MSU approach). I find myself disappointed that I am essentially unable to play the way I picked the army to play, or if I do, I have to use more bows to bring my opponents units down to lower strength before I am able to get into melee.

I also think I am starting to find the MSU approach a little stale, having played it for a while now. The trouble I have is that I don't really have any interest in playing Wood Elves in a style other than my fleeting MSU style. If I wanted to play a different style, I would have picked a different army.

To that end, I'm looking for a new army. Having done the Wood Elf MSU thing, I'm looking for a new experience. A completely different one.

So I put to the Warseerites, what army is the opposite to a Wood Elf MSU army, and why? I should clarify I'm not looking for novelty builds. This isn't a challenge to create an army with one massive deathstar unit, because 1 unit is the opposite of MSU. I'm more interested in which army, if constructed in a typical way for that army, is going to give me a thoroughly different experience.

All yours, folks.

Ultimate Life Form
14-07-2012, 09:24
What about Dwarves? Stout and stubborn little suckers that are as immovable as the mountain they came from and blast the oponent from afar with their cannons? Or are you tired of shooting?

Eppe
14-07-2012, 09:26
Probably a horde army like Skaven then? They have alot of expendable units and pretty strong magic. With their ability to shoot in CC makes for interesting strategies too. They are also a fairly strong army so you wont be behind the 8 ball, as it were.

Crube
14-07-2012, 09:31
Couple of different options... Dwarves or Skaven would give you a very different way of playing as would Warriors of Chaos or Ogres

As an ex Wood Elf player myself (I've put them away for the same reasons as you) I'm finding Empire are actually a close match now in terms of play style... not in that there's lots of small fast moving units, but that everything in the army relies on something else to do well. You have to plan multiple charges, buffs from priests and wizards are vital... Troops are fragile, but not fast, so it can be a real challenge to get the most out of the army.

BlackPawl
14-07-2012, 09:41
Many armies are opposed to wood elves (and their MSU playstyle):

* Skaven: use numbers to overwhelm the enemy, good in a war of attrition

* WoC: a perfect close combat army: have to go into close combat as soon as possible, all their choices are good in killing enemies in close combat - maybe the best core troops around

* Ogres: very few hard hitting MI units, not so soft like woodelves

* Tomb Kings, Vampires: can rise troops back, have not to worry about a few looses like wood elves

...

BigbyWolf
14-07-2012, 09:43
Anything that uses big units, and is a little bit evil. Beastmen, Skaven, Greenskins.

Out of the three, Greenskins have got a lot of form for burning down forests, so they could be an opposite for background purposes as well (considering GW have changed the Beastmen from hating woodies to hating humies).

Bingo the Fun Monkey
14-07-2012, 10:59
Being an Orcs and Goblins player, I regard Wood Elves as the opposite of my army. We take deep, durable but largely unreliable blocks of troops. Some of us like to take a big horde of stupid, drooling trolls. Wood elves are soft and fast and thinly dispersed, given their flighty nature, and have no access to stupid units.

Orcs have no respect for nature, or anything else that isn't loud and stompy. Their form of 'symbiosis' is a concoction of mayhem, desolation, cannibalism and the occasional idolatry borne of deep superstition.

Orcs and Goblins get updated every edition. Wood Elves get updated every decade.

Wood Elves seek to emulate the forces of nature.

A Waaagh! is a natural disaster.

Fruhauf
14-07-2012, 12:51
I was in the same position as you, I started Wood Elves for my love of the fluff and models, but soon found in 8th I could only really take a select few units to make a semi-competitive list. I decided to go with Vampires and I'm thoroughly enjoying them... In a 2k list I can field so many horde units it's unreal, you go from having a small amount of elite models to so many expendable models it's crazy.

Also fluff wise, I know as Bingo says a Waaagh! is a natural disaster but what's more unnatural than the undead? Plus they still have some absolutely gorgeous models (Vampire lords, Wight King, even the Corpse Cart if you're into that macabre stuff) and as a recently updated army you'll find that pretty much any unit in the book stands a chance at getting into your list if you want it to, which is something Woodies never had the luxury of.

Let us know of your decision!

Cragum
14-07-2012, 15:00
Never played as Wood Elves myself but I do however have a great knowledge of the ratmen, big guts and greenskins for many years and each one has its own delightful style of tactics in my eyes.

Skaven: Your expendable troops that will laugh to see die as theres plenty more where that comes from. You could fit say 200 models in a 1k army!

Ogres: Unique army and minimal model count but they throw in the damage when they get stuck in. Your essentially playing an army of heros with all their stat lines being pretty basic but with 3 wounds each makes them stand out. Plus their extras like leadbelchers are loathsome when piled into a big enough group.

Orcs n Gobbos: Played these the most and they have for me when playing as night goblins become the most fun army to play with. Packing as many fanatics into an army and seeing what happens next is brilliant. For the points of a fanatic, usually killing a horsemen or two equals their point worth and if you can get them off into blocks of troops then your gonna get your point worth.

Orcs are tough buggers to kill with their t4 and their heros are even tougher and they have amazing magic!

Hope that helps!

tmarichards
14-07-2012, 23:31
Ogres. You push it at people and ruin their hobby/

Mithras69
15-07-2012, 00:17
I'd say Beastmen: arguably the most combat oriented army out there and no shooting to speak of.

Why
15-07-2012, 00:20
Ungor raiders and cygor;)

Mithras69
15-07-2012, 00:24
Ungor raiders and cygor;)

That's why I added "to speak of" after the "no shooting" :p

Also they work best in large units, are of the evil kind and compete for the same living space as the woodies. So they are natural enemies.

Charistoph
15-07-2012, 05:59
Fluff-wise: Beastmen, specifically Morghur. Both are forest dwellers, and while the Asrai seek to inhabit it and merge with it, the Beastmen seek to corrupt and dominate it.
Dark Elves are what shattered the Elven empire and caused the war with the Dwarfs, leaving them abandoned in the Old World and forced to rely on Athel Loren for protection.

Gameplay-wise: Many options:
Warriors of Chaos rely on heavily armored soldiers supported by monsters and hordes of Marauders.
Lizardmen are very similar to Warriors, but much slower.
Dwarfs are very stubborn, tough, and slow, and rely on their war machines to give them the big punch.

Athelassan
15-07-2012, 22:57
Im going to say Vampire Counts. Not just because they have, and need, massive units of dirt cheap cannon fodder that you can repair with magic, but also because they get about five army books for each Wood Elf one.

Meatballer
18-07-2012, 18:26
I'm ALSO going to say Vampire Counts but for different reasons. The VC have very restricted movement (though they have ways of buffing it), and absolutely no shooting. They generally try to have tarpits in their flanks to hold keep small flanky units off their backs long enough for the big army in the middle to crush the enemy. They have static combat resolution, and are just as likely to win in the 3rd round of combat as the first.

I would also mention Warriors of chaos, hwo tend to just walk forward with armor, but I suspect you would find it a little dull. Vampire counts have a wide enough range of activities, but NONE of them are run in circles around the enemy and whittle them down.

The bearded one
18-07-2012, 19:11
Anything with a backbone?


* ta dum - tish! *

Wood elves are elite, fast, squishy (but have tougher units available) and lightly armoured, use lots of ballistic skill shooting and skirmishers.

Dwarfs are almost the polar opposite, except for also being decently elite, and having lots of shooting (mostly warmachine fire)
Beastmen are tough, numerous, and CC oriented, with little shooting (but also no armour, and they are quite fast)
Chaos warriors are tough, heavily armoured, CC oriented, not exceptionally fast, but get numbers through marauders while using little shooting
Orcs&Goblins are also CC oriented, very very numerous, not superfast either, but not heavily armoured either like the wood elves, the orcs are tough though, and for goblins sheer numbers is also a kind of defence :p


Actually, plenty of armies are a polar opposite in some way or another, but often when they are tough and heavily armoured, they are not very numerous, like wood elves.

Wesser
18-07-2012, 23:11
Uh Uh

I know this one. People who don't like papercuts. Things that'll eventually get an army book. Or how about them "Sevle Doow"? Thats the opposite of "Wood elves" right?