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Durpp
15-07-2012, 21:32
Okay, so, my friends and I look into rules too much sometimes.
Dispelling remains in play spells states that you can dispel a remains in play spell at any time, but how strict is that?

In Game Example; I cast The Enfeebling Foe, on a unit of 12 Ogre Ironguts with a Butcher in the unit. lower their strength by 3, so they all have strength 1. My opponent doesn't dispel the hex on his turn, or the first part of my magic phase. I cast Curse of the Leper from lore of Nurgle with irresistible force. My opponent chooses to dispel The Enfeebling Foe before the models are turned to goo.

So, is this legit? basically, can you chose to dispel remains in play spell in-between the casting of other spells? Or, dispel remains in play spells in response to other spells being cast successfully before you resolve the effect of the spell?

We reasoned that technically, yes. As the rules state that you can dispel at ANY time. But I would like to know your opinions on this, or if you generals have any official mandate on how this is supposed to work.

Thanks!

Scalebug
15-07-2012, 21:50
In between spells are fine, but I think most people play it as "at any time" reasonably shouldn't interrupt in the middle of an initiated sequence.

He had plenty of opportunity to dispel it before you rolled any dice for the next spell. In this case, it would be a case of whether you declared "they are now dead!" before your opponent said "I'm dispelling The Enfeebling foe!".

1) It shouldn't be a contest of who can throw dice or yell out stuff the fastest, that is just silly.

2) Curse of the Leper there, there are no dice thrown, but compare it to, say, a magic missile, most people would readily agree that it doesn't feel right that you would be allowed to wait and see how many hits are done, or even watch the "to-wound" roll, say you are wounded on 3+ because of the modified toughness, and if there are only 1's and 2's, you don't dispel...

3) Thinking about it, further weirdness is that while in this case, once you had rolled for the Curse, and seen that it was irresistibly cast, the target died, there was no time to dispel "at any time" or not, but if you had not, and just rolled high enough to cast it, and he then could have dispelled the spell, he arguably could have decided to dispell the Enfeebling foe instead, as it would had been easier... which should indicate that something wasn't right...

Senbei
15-07-2012, 22:21
I think that once you had announced that you were casting the second spell, this should have been resolved before he could respond and dispel the first. That said, rules is rules. People will tend to read them to their own advantage.

kefkah
15-07-2012, 23:59
Oh boy, why cluster**** a rule for some advantage?.

Remain in play spells = cant dispell on your turn, but in next turn.

And if he wants, he have to say "before you cast your dice or do that spell, imma dispell the remainig in play spell".

You cant disrubt a spellcasting, let alone have your dice ready and see the IF and then take that dice before your IF resolves to dispell it.

Not only dont i think its in the rules that you can interuppt a casting once it been declared and casted before resolvingg ( then take your action inbetween) then it is a kind of cheaty face.


Sometimes your unit dies. He had time to A) dispell it on his turn and B) declare at the start, before you cast anything, to dispell it. But also here i think its the actives turn to take any action first.

Its just fair play and common sense really. You cant have a spell not resolve after casting like somekind of standby to dispell another spell first. One action at a time.

Correct me guys if im wrong.

hamsterwheel
16-07-2012, 18:14
I would let him dispel Enfeebling and since it's your turn and both happen simultaneously(since you successfully cast the spell) then you get to choose the order in which the effects apply.

dms505
17-07-2012, 11:06
I would let him dispel Enfeebling and since it's your turn and both happen simultaneously(since you successfully cast the spell) then you get to choose the order in which the effects apply.


Yes I think that GW has kept the rules for "dispelling" a little too generic. "Dispelling" a spell as it's cast would actually be more like a counterspell. If you see a guy casting a spell you don't time your dispel to right when it's finished. You try and interupt him or cancel it out. So I would agree with hamsterwheel and say they happen at the same time. So by the time the new spell was cast the old remains in play would be out of play. But to be honest the rules in the BRB book just aren't good enough for this type of idea. They should take a small tip fro games like Magic the gathering and have certain abilities that are instants and others that are interupts.

LiddellHart
17-07-2012, 14:32
No they shouldn't. Please let the instants and interrupts stay with Mtg, and keep our magic phase clean and simple.

Artiee
17-07-2012, 15:00
They do have instants and interupts. Its call scrolls.

Scalebug
17-07-2012, 16:50
They do have instants and interupts. Its call scrolls.

Not really, as they are clearly defined when they are used, instead of dispelling, and although I must (or gladly will :p) admit it was more than a decade and a half since I last played MtG, I seem to remember (or can reasonably deduct) that is not what that games mechanic of "interupt" is about...

Artiee
17-07-2012, 16:56
Instants and interupts as in needing no dice to use.

Durpp
17-07-2012, 17:27
It's funny, I know this problem arose because my friends are used to playing MTG so the idea of doing something "in response to" seems natural to them.
Well, If ya guys wanted to compare to MTG, having "The Stack" would fix this problem in a jiffy.
But having played MTG for years and moved on I would prefer to have a different solution.

dms505
17-07-2012, 18:41
I guess I wasn't as clear as I should have been. Basically they need something that says 1 thing with this "type" always goes before or after something with this "type". The BRB is full of problems using this same mechanic issue. The magic issue feels like the worse to me because it can still "break" the game in some situations.

kefkah
18-07-2012, 00:05
well to make the magic reference as durpp said.

His spell resolves first, nr 1 on the stack, before you can take any other action, as it would resolve in MTG. Dispelling Remain in play isent a instant

Kallstrom
18-07-2012, 11:58
I think interupts and instants should be part of this game. That way you dispelling becomes a bit more tactical and the difference when it comes to dispelling among the different armies becomes more evident. Dwarfs for example could get better/safer kinds of dispel and not just more dice. I think Dwarfs should get a IR-dispel rune that overrides an IR-spell. But maybe that's just me. ;)

Lord Solar Plexus
24-07-2012, 09:42
If you see a guy casting a spell you don't time your dispel to right when it's finished. You try and interupt him or cancel it out.


You seem to have extensive practical knowledge about magic procedures. ;-)