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Overlord Krycis
17-07-2012, 08:41
...getting a bit tired of all the "Doom and Gloom" threads/posts on forums and groups?

It just seems that wherever I look there are loads of people complaining that the latest edition has completely ruined their army beyond any means of salvage or hope.

Has 6th REALLY caused that much of a shift that entire swathes of gamer's armies are useless or is this just the "loud minority" again?
I've had to change a few things in the armies I use, but no-where near what I see going on in forums/groups.

So, is it just me, or has 6th REALLY destroyed entire groups of armies? I feel like I'm being cruel to others by saying they're just looking at their codex in a poor light...

zoggin-eck
17-07-2012, 09:06
Pretty much happens every time, perhaps just more obvious the larger internet communities get. Before all of this, you had to read a book, play a few games and decide for yourself with your friends. I do kind of miss this :)

Pity the poor fool who enjoyed 8th ed. Fantasy when it came out. Trying to read up on a new edition of my fave game was a painful experience!

nosebiter
17-07-2012, 09:10
There allways is an abundance of nerdrage around new editions and codexes. I just ignore it or skip the angry threads. And if it is all too much, take a break from reading forums, play some games have some fun, and make up your own mind.

And beside the all deepstrike army, all are still playable peeps just have to adjust abit.

Killgore
17-07-2012, 09:18
Is anyone else...... Having fun?

I sure am. 6th ed is an enjoyable game system, the cinestyle rules and inclusion of fortifications and allies have uped the enjoyment factor for me at least.

I look forward to the whiners selling their armies so I can buy more cheap models

Banville
17-07-2012, 09:35
^ This, times about a thousand.

I'm having a whale of a time. This edition is far more complex and involving than 5th. People giving out about armies being nerfed happens every single time a new edition comes out. I've done a good bit of socio-economic research in my undergrad days and the trouble with data, especially "soft" qualitative data, gleaned from open forums or voluntary responses is that the vocal minority tend to skew the results. People with a bee in their bonnet will go that extra mile to get themselves heard. People who are happy enough with the way things are tend to just truck along, having fun and leaving the people who want to complain shouting loudly in the middle of a slowly expanding circle of empty space and quizzical looks.

This edition deserves far more praise and recognition than it's getting. There are rules interactions and unit interactions that actually seem to have been planned. This is a big step for GW. Rules are designed not so that a unit works in a vacuum but so that individual units or models can support and augment the effectiveness of others. Tanks need infantry support as do walkers. Snipers are useful to pick off sergeants so that they can't challenge your lord. People have to make a choice between Powerfists and swords. Where do I put my specialist weapons guy? Do I chance assaulting from so far away that I might fail the charge due to overwatching fire (I'm looking at you Firewarriors) or is rapid firing the way the go?

It's not perfect but it's getting there.

Overlord Krycis
17-07-2012, 09:37
Pretty much happens every time, perhaps just more obvious the larger internet communities get. Before all of this, you had to read a book, play a few games and decide for yourself with your friends. I do kind of miss this :)

Pity the poor fool who enjoyed 8th ed. Fantasy when it came out. Trying to read up on a new edition of my fave game was a painful experience!

I too miss the days when you learned how the game changed your army by playing it...also as a fellow 8th ed enthusiast I feel your pain regarding reading about it when it came out.


There allways is an abundance of nerdrage around new editions and codexes. I just ignore it or skip the angry threads. And if it is all too much, take a break from reading forums, play some games have some fun, and make up your own mind.

And beside the all deepstrike army, all are still playable peeps just have to adjust abit.

I know it happens every time...but it just seems so much worse than 4th -> 5th did.
And all DS army is still fine...if you are a marine :P

Is anyone else...... Having fun?

I sure am. 6th ed is an enjoyable game system, the cinestyle rules and inclusion of fortifications and allies have uped the enjoyment factor for me at least.

I look forward to the whiners selling their armies so I can buy more cheap models

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the new edition, much more cinematic and epic than any other 40k I've played...there are a few problems, but they are hugely irrelevant compared to how much enjoyment I get from the game.

The main problem I have, I guess, is that the internet hyperbole is bleeding into my regular gaming group/gaming experiences.
An example is a buddy of mine who plays Nids; after seeing that you can now overwatch, went on a massive rant about how Overwatch utterly wrecks his close combat nid army, despite it being resolved at BS1...but he skipped over that boneswords IGNORE armour saves, that FnP can be taken by anything that doesn't cause ID etc.

It just feels a bit like there are a LOT of people (at least on the interweb-land) that have seized onto these few negatives and pumped them up to catastrophic proportions.

Hopefully the Interweb-->Real Life osmosis will fade out after a while...

unknown_lifeform
17-07-2012, 09:46
Its generally a loud minority (though not as loud and more of a minority than for 8th ed fantasy). I suspect if you did a poll you'd find a large % in favour.

As to people having their armies "ruined", it happens every edition and codex change. Part of its people giving in to rampant negativity, part people playing the flavour of the month spammed netlists suddenly finding their armies invalidated as GW fixes the imbalances or dodgy rules that gave birth to them. Of course, they then create new problems to exploit and the cycle continues :)

Mauler
17-07-2012, 10:42
Aye, but the whingy lot just need to grow a pair, man up and adapt. Armour getting hammered out in the open? It should be. Armour getting mullered in CC? It should be. Don't let it happen; use cover and infantry support. Can't hit flyers? Well yeah, most people are in that boat. Counters will come with time and new models/codicies.

To be blunt, if the really vocal lot want to knee-jerk their way through life and make a fuss instead of being patient and getting on with things then the hobby is probably better off without them anyway.

wascloud
17-07-2012, 10:52
Personally, my Dark Eldar are a lot worse off in 6th than they were in 5th. But I knew it was coming, and I know it's happened for a good reason. My DE were built for a 5th ed tournament, and because of that, we're a bit exploitative of the rules set. Naturally, as imbalances are fixed, the 'OP' armies of 5th are less effective in 6th.
That being said, 6th is huge huge fun, and I'm actually playing the game because it's enjoyable, rather than the end of an edition constant power gaming and optimising that I was doing two months ago.
All in all, it's great!!
Wascloud

TrojanWolf
17-07-2012, 11:02
Well, I can't say that I'm all that annoyed. In 5th I generally stuck with the same Dark Eldar list for each game. With 6th out, I'm trying to find what I like and what doesn't work so well for me. Haven't managed a game bigger than 1,250pts yet, but at least it's getting me to use some variety instead of sticking with the same one list all the time.

Still, I'm learning quite slowly. I'll pick it up, but I don't see the point in complaining so much.

Gertjan
17-07-2012, 11:17
I'm liking it so far, ofcourse there are people who regard interwebz wisdom as a holy grail and the ultimate truth and act accordingly. But I find most people in general read up on what is written on fora and then make up their own minds from their own experience. Maybe I'm lucky with the people I play with then', our own experiences are far more important than what people on the internet are shouting. Only thing that does trickle through are some of the tactics and ideas for army lists sadly enough, I still prefer people making armies with what they like rather than what's good but that's just a very minor gripe...

hawo0313
17-07-2012, 11:47
well all im waiting for now is for narrative battle reports to come out with overwatch, challenges and the very cool psychic powers list and hopefully more infantry intensive gameplay we should get some amazing reads :)

Kurisu313
17-07-2012, 11:50
well all im waiting for now is for narrative battle reports to come out with overwatch, challenges and the very cool psychic powers list and hopefully more infantry intensive gameplay we should get some amazing reads :)

Heh, working on it! 6th seems great for narrative players. Most of what I do now is run narrative campaigns (see my sig) and I'm loving the new rules. I'm not sure how good 6th is for competitive balance, but thats something that'll come out in the wash as the meta shifts.

Ronin_eX
17-07-2012, 12:03
I haven't touched GW games in years and 6th was just the right mix of updated mechanics and callbacks to 2nd Edition and RT that I ended up grabbing the rules. 40k hasn't excited me in over a decade and now I'm leaping back in to it. The current doom-and-gloom is pretty bog standard and I've been on both sides of the divide (and in the neutral circle from time to time) in previous editions. This is nothing new, people can be justifiably upset that their old tactics are moot and their favourite units went down in power. But I figure the basic mechanics of 6E are a massive improvement and I'm interested to see if they can keep the codices up to snuff this edition.

I'm not too put of by armies that are one or two editions old interacting weirdly with these rules. Though old codices are backward compatible, they remain that way due to bailing wire and bubblegum. It is the actual native 6E codices that I am interested in seeing.

But people will leave and new people will filter back in, it is the way of things. When GW makes a change they can't please everyone. This edition they brought back a 2nd Edition fanatic and drove away a few people who liked specific play styles from 5E. I can't say I'm too upset though, it is nice that there is an edition that catered to my tastes. If 7th swings the pendulum back, then my books wont explode.

But I'm liking that this edition has added tools to the tactical toolkit. It has made position and maneuver more important, supporting ones units is a much bigger priority due to vehicles having more deterministic damage rules and overwatch making headlong charges more difficult. I personally like these changes and am enjoying the game so far.

chromedog
17-07-2012, 13:21
I got sick of the whining in 5th edition and got out of the game 6 months ago.

Anyone waiting for the horde of RT-3rd ed models in my armies can keep waiting. I'd rather dump 'em in a skip (or melt them down to slag) than sell them. :D

I'll just use the toy soldiers in another game.

Utred
17-07-2012, 13:45
I'm a cynic, and I've been through the cycle since RT become 2nd. I've also seen it happen in other games as well. Part of it is because humans don't like it when things change. Another part of it I've seen with GW games and MMORPG's as well - is the changes break internet lists. That game / fight winning set up doesn't work like it did so they come online and cry about it. I mean we'd actually hate for someone to actually have to think and use tactics in a game right? But then I'm a cynic....

IcedCrow
17-07-2012, 13:56
Yes. Spammers that spammed rhinos and dreads are pooping in their diapers. Dont spam, field balanced armies, and edition changes dont hurt.

Or spam and min max and know a new edition can turn your optimized monstrosity of win into epic fail of loss and accept that

To answer the question: yes it irritates me a little. Netlists irritate me. People get online, find a netlist, min/max with it, and then squirt in their diapers liquid rage when the edition changes. Then they go on a hiawatha wardance, ranting and raving about how they have been screwed over.

Major_Manny
17-07-2012, 14:49
Iv'e been playing 40k since 2nd, but properly since 3rd....however, this time around, i can't be bothered to buy more for my army. So if someone turns up with a shed load of flyers......I'll be packing up pretty sharpish.

Not bought any new GW models for 18months now, the last 3k has all gone on Flames of War models and terrain, and i tell you what, it's a breath of fresh air, without any silly uber armies and bolts of lightning shooting out of people arses lol

Pyriel
17-07-2012, 14:52
all new 40k editions do this, dude. you should have seen the backlash of 5th, hahahaha! i remember tons of people saying they would boycott 5th/keep playing 4th! dont worry, it'll pass with time.

Freakiq
17-07-2012, 15:21
You're on Warseer, did you really expect anything else? :p

Banville
17-07-2012, 18:28
Yep, you can't spell Warseer without spelling ****.

Pyriel
17-07-2012, 18:42
...there are two "main" ways to play the game.

one, field balanced armies for friendly play, and each edition wont hurt.

...two, be competitive and build an optimised list=a list optimised for a specific edition's metagame. guess what-witch each edition, this "optimised list" will change drasticaly. i play competitively, and as such i expect to spend 200-300$ everytime a new edition comes out.sorry but thats just the facts.

i'm not a rich guy either. like, i sacrificed lots of stuff to be able to do this-over 3 editions, i have about 6k of black templars due to the immense need to change units used per edition. i have NO money to support any other army(sold all IG i once had), cant play any other wargame at all if i want to be financialy healthy. its just like that; competitiveness=adapt armylist to meta=change armylist a lot=MONEY(and the sacrifice of playing a constant numbers game in armylisting)

We may not like it, but this is the way the game works, period. its how it has always worked, from 3rd-ed rhinorush to 4th-ed eldar flying circus(and all else losing but merely keeping up with plasmaspam), to 5th-ed parking lots, to 6th-ed(we'll see here).

;Like i showcase, you CAN follow, and no need to be rich. but if you just wanna buy models you like, and so you cant keep up with that, then sorry, but keep playing the friendly side of 40k, not the competitive one. thats perfectly OK and fun too!!!but if you wanna be a competitive player, know and expect HUGE changes with each edition.(that said, while 40k internal balance is horrible, the balance between codexes is NOT as bad as ppl think at a competitive level. just optimise list as best as you can and tourney results data show you have almost equal chance to win).

edit: i TOTALY understand fluffy friendly players and i have stated in lots of my posts that their way of playing 40k is a different one, NOT a "wrong" one. but i am REALY annoyed by people wanting to call themselves competitive players(=40k athletes) and being whiner losers cause they must change their list after a long time(boo-hoo!!!!) competitive people=athlete-equivaklent of their endeavour. lemme tell you something: athletes dont quit, athletes dont whine. they adapt, prepare harder and win!

6th edition, like all editions, is by definition a new ruleset, and as such it doenst hurt friendly OR competitive play. friendly games will always be fine, and competitive games will always be changing and everadapting. its just the nature of it. just another meta guys. please stop the constant whining. it is totaly OK to whine and even rant, but at least build a cohesive argument/strong case on that so we can find the unavoidable solution!!!!! otherwise, dont bother us with your whining, just sit in your corner.

Vaktathi
17-07-2012, 18:48
Every edition and release is like this. Sometimes there are legitimate issues, sometimes not. Some armies do get smacked rather hard. When this game costs what it does, that hurts.

It'd be one thing if it were an Infinity or Heavy Gear army where your army is 8-15 dudes that are $10-20 each. It's another when it's a 40k army of 60+ dudes and multiple tanks and half of that changed radically in useability and you've now got several hundred dollars worth of stuff you need to swap out, and we're not just talking spam/netlists here either, and people don't like it when a large investment becomes dead weight or the perception of dead weight exists.

If you think 6E is any more balanced than 5th/4th/3rd/2nd/etc I've got a bridge to sell you, all the sillyness about "just build balanced lists and it won't hurt" is just that, sillyness, as what is "balanced" changes often radically from edition to edition and person to person.

Konovalev
17-07-2012, 18:52
...getting a bit tired of all the "Doom and Gloom" threads/posts on forums and groups?

It's Whineseer. Come for the doom, stay for the hilarious gloom.

Pyriel
17-07-2012, 18:55
i get what you are saying, Vaktathi, but truth is, most fluffy players i know dont have this problem!!! most of them have enough "random models they like" they can swap out anything they want for a non-competitive list.

the only ones having the problem are the competitive players, who SHOULDNT CARE about money (by definition; "are you one of the best and do sacrifices for that, or not?"you cant be both elite on an activity AND a crybaby, take your pick pal ;) ). i am especialy offended cause my family is having hard times financialy, i've sold tons of gaming stuff, and *I* dont care about the money. either i'll cut back on other expenses(like i did when i sold all my warmahordes models) to buy the new stuff for 6th and still be competitive, or i'll stop being a crybaby and just keep it for friendly non-competitive games of wierd balancing houserules. thats it!!!

Phazael
17-07-2012, 19:01
As someone who dates back to 2nd edition, I feel I can say that the game will continue. My main issues with 6th concern the bogged down and exploitable nature of their new wound allocation rules and the heavy bias towards Marine Equivalent armies. The first is new to this edition and its mainly just going to add a new form of slow play to tournaments, intentional or not. The second is not new, but as someone who plays mostly xenos armies I lament the fact that my Eldar will continue to collect dust and my Nids are basically even more left in the dust. My wife's Orks and Necrons did ok, though I guess. Aside from this, the new rules are just new rules. People will have to wait for the internet to redesign the flowchart for playing their armies and discovering the new broken combos. If you were one of the guys who bought 8 razorbacks to put in your army, well, then you kind of got what you deserved, honestly.

Overlord Krycis
17-07-2012, 19:15
all new 40k editions do this, dude. you should have seen the backlash of 5th, hahahaha! i remember tons of people saying they would boycott 5th/keep playing 4th! dont worry, it'll pass with time.

I've been playing 40k since the end of 2nd Ed. So, yeah, I remember the 4th to 5th transition. It just feels that it was no-where near as bad as this though...


You're on Warseer, did you really expect anything else? :p


Yep, you can't spell Warseer without spelling ****.


It's Whineseer. Come for the doom, stay for the hilarious gloom.

I may have actually "lol-ed" from those comments.

I'm sure a poll would actually show that the majority of gamers (the ones who are happy to just plod along with their hobby) would approve of 6th (I'm one of them!), it's just that "hugely vocal minority" that seems to cause a massive knee-jerk shockwave in the community.
eg someone says how 1 unit overwatching (lootas for example) would be scary and 2 days later 5 marines with bolters and ONE flamer on overwatch are able to utterly neuter every close combat army ever invented (I have actually heard this conversation with my own ears).

The hyperbole has always been there in this game, but it just seems that it's not just been turned up to 11, but all the way back round the dial. Twice.

Yodhrin
17-07-2012, 19:18
Every edition and release is like this. Sometimes there are legitimate issues, sometimes not. Some armies do get smacked rather hard. When this game costs what it does, that hurts.

It'd be one thing if it were an Infinity or Heavy Gear army where your army is 8-15 dudes that are $10-20 each. It's another when it's a 40k army of 60+ dudes and multiple tanks and half of that changed radically in useability and you've now got several hundred dollars worth of stuff you need to swap out, and we're not just talking spam/netlists here either, and people don't like it when a large investment becomes dead weight or the perception of dead weight exists.

If you think 6E is any more balanced than 5th/4th/3rd/2nd/etc I've got a bridge to sell you, all the sillyness about "just build balanced lists and it won't hurt" is just that, sillyness, as what is "balanced" changes often radically from edition to edition and person to person.

The word "balanced" is being used in a totally different sense than the way you imply it is, and you must know that; he was referring to the difference between someone who builds a very specific netlist designed to maximally exploit certain rules or synergies, against building a force that uses a good range of different units and isn't weighted too heavily in any one direction - the former necessarily runs the risk that a new edition will invalidate their whole force by changing or eliminating the rule or synergy it exploits, versus the latter which, while it may require a few units to be retooled or replaced, will generally function "good enough" that a player can rework their force over time and still enjoy the game in the meanwhile.

Konovalev
17-07-2012, 19:19
i get what you are saying, Vaktathi, but truth is, most fluffy players i know dont have this problem!!! most of them have enough "random models they like" they can swap out anything they want for a non-competitive list.


I think this is what's called a "switcheroo". Since when does "balanced armies for friendly play" equate to "enough 'random models they like' they can swap out anything they want for a non-competitive list" ???

When you says balanced armies do you mean equal pointage? Or designed to be diverse and not consist only of terminators, infantry, min units in transports etc?

Gonefishing
17-07-2012, 19:27
...getting a bit tired of all the "Doom and Gloom" threads/posts on forums and groups?

It just seems that wherever I look there are loads of people complaining that the latest edition has completely ruined their army beyond any means of salvage or hope.

Has 6th REALLY caused that much of a shift that entire swathes of gamer's armies are useless or is this just the "loud minority" again?
I've had to change a few things in the armies I use, but no-where near what I see going on in forums/groups.

So, is it just me, or has 6th REALLY destroyed entire groups of armies? I feel like I'm being cruel to others by saying they're just looking at their codex in a poor light...


Well. I actually like the new rule set - with a marginal exception of hull points (a nerf to far) and barrage sniping sneaking its way back into the rule book.....

But setting aside the fact that I for the most part like the new rules - they have killed my particular army (Tau) - We are down to two useable units in our Codex now (Broadsides and Crisis Suits), and a plethora of broken wargear. Kroot, Piranhas, devilfish etc, all took nerfs that made them pretty useless and the mission rules put an even greater reliance on troops/infantry to win, and Tau have pretty poor Infantry (and yes, I know Rapid Firing boosted FireWarriors with Pulse Rifles, however all our Battlesuits could already do this, so it helped our opponents more. Plus, the fact that the gun is now better does not change the fact the Trooper carrying it is still utterly pisspoor).

So yes, 6th did kill my army - but I do like the new rules, I expect I shall like them more however when I get a new Codex that is capable of playing within them a little better than the Tau currently can.

MalusCalibur
17-07-2012, 19:59
Nowhere near as tired as I am of the relentless enthusiasm of 6th's advocate fans. It was the same with Fantasy 8th, in fact. Any and all criticism gets lumped in together with the admittedly overly-dramatic calls that the game is completely ruined, and everyone is told that they simply must love the new rules because they're so much better, so much more *balanced* then ever before, that they 'bring the game back to the core infantry it's supposed to be about!', and if you dislike them you're just a 'netlist'er or a 'spammer' and deserve to have your army invalidated and in need of reworking to the tune of several hundred (even thousand in extreme cases) pounds!

There are legitimate problems with both 5th and 6th, and through disinterest I'll say they roughly even out. Neither game is more balanced or 'cinematic' (seems to the latest buzzword) than the other, and both are, or will end up, broken messes populated by netlists, permeated by one or two dominant codices.

Eldarin Hope
17-07-2012, 20:12
If you want to make enemies, try to change something.
-Woodrow Wilson

Omniassiah
17-07-2012, 20:16
Well my all-comers lists got nerfed heavily and my tourny armies got buffed across the board. Tried a few games and they just weren't fun with the game results with more heavily decided by whose dice rolled better as opposed to what we actually did.

IcedCrow
17-07-2012, 20:26
Post results please. I keep hearing about this phenomenon about how dice matter more than playing but I haven't seen any good examples, at least ones that also didn't happen in previous editions with hot or cold dice that also affected the outcome.

13713
17-07-2012, 20:36
Well my all-comers lists got nerfed heavily and my tourny armies got buffed across the board. Tried a few games and they just weren't fun with the game results with more heavily decided by whose dice rolled better as opposed to what we actually did.

I actually would love to see results of this. It is a common complaint yet in the games I have personally played this issue has yet to show it's ugly head.

murgel2006
17-07-2012, 20:37
Well, I have always maintained a bunch of fluffy lists.

Surprise! They work ok. be it Eldar, SWs, BAs, SMs, Orks, CSM or Nids. Each and any has provided me with exiting and fun games in 6th.
Changes have been necessary but slight.

I have to say however, that I have big collections of minis for each army, providing for quite some possible choices. So I saw no need to buy anything but 20 more Grechins for the Orks. All my other armies have no need.

I do not play tournaments however, as I like campaigns and fluffy games, not "rules-riding-list".

Vaktathi
17-07-2012, 20:54
The word "balanced" is being used in a totally different sense than the way you imply it is, and you must know that; he was referring to the difference between someone who builds a very specific netlist designed to maximally exploit certain rules or synergies, against building a force that uses a good range of different units and isn't weighted too heavily in any one direction - the former necessarily runs the risk that a new edition will invalidate their whole force by changing or eliminating the rule or synergy it exploits, versus the latter which, while it may require a few units to be retooled or replaced, will generally function "good enough" that a player can rework their force over time and still enjoy the game in the meanwhile. Not necessarily true. I'll use my CSM list as an example. It has 40 basic CSM's that form the core, a Winged DP for an HQ, a couple of terminator squads, 4 rhinos and some Oblits. Most would consider that fairly diverse for a CSM army. There's 4 troops units, a couple of similar but not quite identical elites, a small number of vehicles, a winged monstrous creature, and some heavy support troops.

That army no longer functions particularly well for multiple reasons (e.g. the Axes that CSM termi's come with are all I1 now, can't assault out of stationary transports, transports less likely to live the turn or two needed to get into position for units to DS onto icons, etc.) The entire strategy the army was built around no longer functions (move up rhinos, DS termis and oblits onto icons from troop units, disembark and engage). It'd likely need to be rebuilt with more dedicated assault and static shooting specialists (and ripping lots of arms off of terminators if they don't all want to be I1) as opposed to the generalist units to function well under the 6E rules.

adreal
17-07-2012, 22:46
My raiders die alot easier, and when that happens the S4 explosion hurts alot more. But I'll get my head around the vehicle rules eventually, I mean right now it's frustrating, but I'll just either move on from my raiders (and I spent alot of money on getting them, so being alittle annoyed at the rules for vehicles changing to make them death traps is fair IMHO) or not play my dark eldar much.

But reading the rules they seem alot more fun, just playing the games I'm not enjoying as much, but it could be the 5th ed mindset, I will try out some infantry heavy dark eldar lists and see what happens, though taking 10 man raider squads can only be viewed as a good thing.

Wyches seem pointless now though

badguyshaveallthefun
17-07-2012, 23:02
I personally like this edition, I'm finding it to be an all new set of challenges, which I'm fine with and am enjoying. I've found that I'm actually taking Wraithlords again and am leaving the Fire Prism's at home (much to my opponents delight). Combo-charges I think are the key here, use the wraithlord to absorb over-watch fire and then charge in the squishy aspects. I'm going to go out and buy a Talos for my dark Eldar so that I can try the same trick with the dark kin :).

Overlord Krycis
18-07-2012, 23:49
I personally like this edition, I'm finding it to be an all new set of challenges, which I'm fine with and am enjoying. I've found that I'm actually taking Wraithlords again and am leaving the Fire Prism's at home (much to my opponents delight). Combo-charges I think are the key here, use the wraithlord to absorb over-watch fire and then charge in the squishy aspects. I'm going to go out and buy a Talos for my dark Eldar so that I can try the same trick with the dark kin :).

Glad to see someone taking Wraithlords again over Eldar flying circus. :)

intercepta
01-12-2013, 23:54
I love this new edition, so the way I played my Blood Angels, Orks and Imperial Guard has had to change but yAhOOoO new shinys!!!

I can finally finish making my bike army and can field a more varied IG army and I now REALLY need to get some Ork bikes, need to find out what to do with all my assault marines now CC isn't as good (FNP isn't as good as it was) and all these new add-ons (2 new ones today), I can use my super heavies against my mates that don't like/have time to play apoc and I can make more terrain and it's more useful now and other cool stuff (and breathe) YAHOOoOoo :p

DeathGlam
02-12-2013, 00:07
Im having more fun currently then i have had since i was a kid and first discovered the joys of Heroquest and then Warhammer Quest, playing weekly at a great new gaming club of fun, like minded, not competative players, we don't currently have a single tournament" minded player, which is just perfect for my enjoyment.

Im currently on a hectic gaming schedule of Blood Bowl, 40k and soon to be Fantasy from next week. :D

Just wish more of the threads online are about what we enjoy from the hobby and that not all tactica discussion have to be about super competative tournament style rather then real tactics and skill/ideas.

SpanielBear
02-12-2013, 00:26
What I do, after spending time on the general discussion and feeling that I am suffocating in hate, is go hang out on the project logs for a bit. It makes you remember what we all play this hobby for- because we enjoy what we're doing. We are messing around with paint and glue and plastic, playing with dinosaurs and lasers and dinosaurs that shoot lasers, and we get to do it with a whole bunch of other people who enjoy the same thing. I get to see some crappy stuff on a daily basis thanks to my work, and this hobby is a real reality check- people are fun, and not all *******.

:)

AndrewGPaul
02-12-2013, 00:28
Step one; stop reading the "doom and gloom" threads. If you're enjoying whichever game you play, who cares about what anonymous people a thousand miles away think? :)

If you're not enjoying it! then do something about it - change the game, play a different game or play different people. Doing a hobby you don't enjoy and then moaning about doing it seems like a particularly fruitless endeavour to me. :)

Menthak
02-12-2013, 01:02
6th Edition ruined Kroot for me.


That is all.

I want Str 4 back :(

Oh and Fliers, not ruined the game, but it's annoying.

SpanielBear
02-12-2013, 02:30
And the award, ladies and gentlemen, for missing the point of the entire thread goes to...

WarzonePlayer
02-12-2013, 05:41
I didn't stop because of 6th, I stopped because of 5th and never bothered with 6th
5th did nothing for me, it added nothing to the game to make it a tactical, viable wargaming system, 6th is worse, it IS an unbalanced system, with some serious flaws.
6th has not added any tactical elements to the current game, it is easily abused and does nothing to hamper the abuse
For allot of us as well the prices of models are a bigger issue than the rules
And of course, flyers, which are handled very poorly, and give the player with the bigger wallet a huge advantage
6th is wallethammer 40,000

jackers
02-12-2013, 08:16
Holy necro-thread Batman!

mughi3
02-12-2013, 13:23
Invalidating people armies is bad game design, so yes people will complain about it since no other game system I am aware of (and I play 8 myself) does this just to sell new models. especially given the monetary investment involved in building a 40K army.


I have some serious issues with 6th(which I was very vocal about over a year ago after spending 3 months trying to get my army to work), even though I like most of it, there are some things that worked rules wise in 4th and 5th edition that should never have been changed. it would make the game much more enjoyable for all players and not invalidate any armies.

zam2
02-12-2013, 13:33
I'm just really annoyed at how my dreadnoughts are still crap, I just want to see the March of the Ancients, trundling down the table to crush some xeno faces without them getting shot off the table or swept away in combat :'<.

Aside from walkers being sub-par compared to MCs I'm liking 6th, it's pretty cool.

duffybear1988
02-12-2013, 14:43
I didn't stop because of 6th, I stopped because of 5th and never bothered with 6th
5th did nothing for me, it added nothing to the game to make it a tactical, viable wargaming system, 6th is worse, it IS an unbalanced system, with some serious flaws.
6th has not added any tactical elements to the current game, it is easily abused and does nothing to hamper the abuse
For allot of us as well the prices of models are a bigger issue than the rules
And of course, flyers, which are handled very poorly, and give the player with the bigger wallet a huge advantage
6th is wallethammer 40,000

Yes that sums it up pretty well I think.

Ssilmath
02-12-2013, 14:47
Yes that sums it up pretty well I think.

And yet you still come one here to tell everyone how much you hate 6th and that they should too.

duffybear1988
02-12-2013, 15:49
And yet you still come one here to tell everyone how much you hate 6th and that they should too.

It's my role in life. :D

When you all eventually start to moan (as you all eventually will) I'll still be here going "I told you so".

ismeno
02-12-2013, 17:14
It's my role in life. :D

When you all eventually start to moan (as you all eventually will) I'll still be here going "I told you so".

Or not......


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Rumbleguts
02-12-2013, 17:58
I think they need to do something to make assaulters a bit more competitive. My genestealers never see the table anymore, odds are they just get shot to hell before they get to do anything. Same goes for lictors.

Overall I like 6th, although the fortification rules are truly some of the worst written rules I have ever seen.

Ssilmath
02-12-2013, 18:05
I think they need to do something to make assaulters a bit more competitive. My genestealers never see the table anymore, odds are they just get shot to hell before they get to do anything. Same goes for lictors.

Overall I like 6th, although the fortification rules are truly some of the worst written rules I have ever seen.

It's called LOS blocking terrain, and using enough of it so that melee units have a chance to get into position.

squeekenator
02-12-2013, 18:49
When you all eventually start to moan (as you all eventually will) I'll still be here going "I told you so".

I had a pretty major falling out with WHFB during 7th edition. Hated everything about that stupid game with its stupid rules and stupid, pathetically balanced armies. So I just stopped visiting forums about the game and didn't talk about it. Nowadays I like the game again, but if I'd spent a good couple years repeatedly telling everyone how stupid and unbalanced that stupid game was and how terrible it is and how much everyone should hate it and WHY DO YOU GUYS LIKE THIS GAME YOU'RE HAVING FUN WRONG, I don't think I would have been able to go back to liking it. Talking about something you don't like on the internet leads to internet arguments, internet arguments lead to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to close-mindedness.

WarzonePlayer
02-12-2013, 19:09
I would love to play fantasy, but I cannot justify the price, 35 for 10 plastic wyches.........yeah ok, do I look like a chump?

Zothos
02-12-2013, 23:24
I would love to play fantasy, but I cannot justify the price, 35 for 10 plastic wyches.........yeah ok, do I look like a chump?

Well, I have no idea what you look like. You are however posting on a message board about a game you profess to dislike and apparently have not played in quite some time.

Oh, Duffybear, no amount of vitriol you spew will make folks like the game more or less. It may make them like or dislike you more, or less. Being "that guy" who says "I told you so", or waiting to be said guy, may also alter somes perceptions.

I dislike spicy food. I do not, however, haunt cooking forums espousing how terrible it is or waiting to be somehow vindicated should an upset stomach occur.

adreal
03-12-2013, 02:16
I think they need to do something to make assaulters a bit more competitive. My genestealers never see the table anymore, odds are they just get shot to hell before they get to do anything. Same goes for lictors.

Overall I like 6th, although the fortification rules are truly some of the worst written rules I have ever seen.

assault daemons work just fine. I use a grimiore buffed hound unit, 3 beast of nurgle (best unit in the game) and they both do me proud.

Genestealers will get better (or cheaper, or both), but warriors might be an idea for a assault unit, 9 of the buggers in a pod will be tough for people to deal with, or two units of 9, just for laughs

Rob
03-12-2013, 09:00
In all honesty I haven't even played 6th edition yet. But the worst IMO was the HUGE jump from 2nd edition to 3rd edition rules. A complete dumbing down of the game. It was like going from chess to checkers. But from what I've read in the 6th edition it's all coming back full circle to 2nd edition.

I have to say even though I miss 40k I'm glad that I haven't wasted any of my hard earned money on it as of late. Too many damn codex changes. Do those idiots over at GW think everyone is made of money?! And from what I've heard over here over in my area of Long Island, NY long time fans of the game are walking away because of all this.

That being said I'm enjoying looking at all the models that GW has come out with (Baneblade/Tesseract/Lord of skulls/etc.) It's just 20 years too late. And I'm still pissed GW got rid of Squats.

Sotek
03-12-2013, 09:28
6E is the best ruleset to come out in a long while however it's the codexes that ruin in - tau with tau allies with formations of suits with inquisitor allies. Every space marine army having space wolf priests in drop pod allies...

ismeno
03-12-2013, 11:09
In all honesty I haven't even played 6th edition yet. But the worst IMO was the HUGE jump from 2nd edition to 3rd edition rules. A complete dumbing down of the game. It was like going from chess to checkers. But from what I've read in the 6th edition it's all coming back full circle to 2nd edition.

I have to say even though I miss 40k I'm glad that I haven't wasted any of my hard earned money on it as of late. Too many damn codex changes. Do those idiots over at GW think everyone is made of money?! And from what I've heard over here over in my area of Long Island, NY long time fans of the game are walking away because of all this.

That being said I'm enjoying looking at all the models that GW has come out with (Baneblade/Tesseract/Lord of skulls/etc.) It's just 20 years too late. And I'm still pissed GW got rid of Squats.

No, the worst jump was from 1st to 2nd.


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mughi3
04-12-2013, 15:13
I'm just really annoyed at how my dreadnoughts are still crap, I just want to see the March of the Ancients, trundling down the table to crush some xeno faces without them getting shot off the table or swept away in combat :'<.

Aside from walkers being sub-par compared to MCs I'm liking 6th, it's pretty cool.

Agreed there. I love the marine dreadnought above all other units in the game and it worked pretty well in 4th/5th with my ironclad/venerable dread combo. I understand that MCs have always been better but the level of nerf they gave vehicles and especially walkers in 6th is ridiculous. hull points or the implementation there of killed the game for me. what fun is there in playing when loosing is a certainty before the game begins.

props for snap fire, flyers(well aside from them not being able to be assaulted anymore), overwatch, move and shoot rapid fire weapons at range, mysterious terrain, casualty removal, AP value for CC weapons......now if that was all added to 5th it would have been an amazing rules set. most of the other changes are garbage and randomness for the sake of randomness (like we didn't get enough of that from the dice already.

Johnnya10
04-12-2013, 15:37
I’m having a bucket-load of fun with 6th. I think we’re living in a ‘Golden Age’ of model sculpts, painters are doing their best work and the creativity in the ruleset always means that there’s more to learn. The fluff is brilliant, the books are most enjoyable and I’m just generally in a very sunny mood about 40k right now. I dare say such optimism will be met with derision by some, but I could not give a hoot. :)

Knifeparty
04-12-2013, 17:34
Usually I'm all about supporting GW and all their systems, and I try to remain as positive as I can but 6th edition seriously has to be the worst edition I've ever played. I'm not sure how everyone has had so much fun, but the sit back and shoot edition is straight up boring. For me it's a combination of close combat (the reason I find warhammer enjoyable) being severely underpowered and my favourite armies getting the hose (chaos, dark eldar, sisters, black Templars).

There's so much shooting from top tier armies I actually don't see the point of getting my army out of my case because I will have lost half of my army by second turn.

I can pretty much rip out half the pages in any codex that are obselete. Do they shoot? Ok good, are they combat oriented? Ok, rip it out because it's useless.

Plague Lord
04-12-2013, 18:07
Usually I'm all about supporting GW and all their systems, and I try to remain as positive as I can but 6th edition seriously has to be the worst edition I've ever played. I'm not sure how everyone has had so much fun, but the sit back and shoot edition is straight up boring. For me it's a combination of close combat (the reason I find warhammer enjoyable) being severely underpowered and my favourite armies getting the hose (chaos, dark eldar, sisters, black Templars).

There's so much shooting from top tier armies I actually don't see the point of getting my army out of my case because I will have lost half of my army by second turn.

I can pretty much rip out half the pages in any codex that are obselete. Do they shoot? Ok good, are they combat oriented? Ok, rip it out because it's useless.

Lol bro maybe you are playing against players that are too competitive? I think 6th is great when playing with mates. Having a couple of beers, not just taking 3 riptides but for example tau flyers, carnifexes, chaos land raiders and those cool orks with the random guns liek snockk attack gun.

Oh and assault isn't dead. It's just more tactical. I managed to win a game with my guard thanks to some last ditch assaults by a company command squad and some rough riders against marines holding objectives. My nurgle daemons rely on assault to win, my wraithlords want to be in close combat.

Objectives are the name of the game and to get them you will have to assault on most occassions.

ugavine
04-12-2013, 18:16
I've been gaming for over 25 years and 40K is one of my favourite games right now.

I'm having loads of fun with 6th edition. I love playing my Orks, and despite being the oldest Codex they're just as much fun and still competetive. I find GW models some of the best available and compared to other hobbies and games I find the prices reasonable too. But then I'm a CMG player.

Sotek
04-12-2013, 18:28
I find 40k to childish for me. My experience for the last number of years is that cheese generally wins over tactics. Not always but cheese is a safe bet. If I want to play an expensive tactical game with a 'meta' I'll play magic. (and I do), if I want to have a game I'll play Bolt Action, If I want to have fun I'll play malifaux

WarzonePlayer
04-12-2013, 19:48
I just wish tactics actually made a difference in 40k, instead of being a waste of time and effort and forcing you into the game of whoever rolls more dice wins.

ismeno
04-12-2013, 19:49
I find 40k to childish for me. My experience for the last number of years is that cheese generally wins over tactics. Not always but cheese is a safe bet. If I want to play an expensive tactical game with a 'meta' I'll play magic. (and I do), if I want to have a game I'll play Bolt Action, If I want to have fun I'll play malifaux

And you still find time to post in a 40K forum-impressive!


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Kung Fu Hamster
04-12-2013, 20:27
And you still find time to post in a 40K forum-impressive!


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For some people, complaining about GW is the hobby.

"Mat Ward had scrambled eggs for breakfast today? THIS CANNOT STAND! This is an affront to humanity! Everything is officially ruined forever!"

Harwammer
04-12-2013, 21:25
For some people, complaining about GW is the hobby.

"Mat Ward had scrambled eggs for breakfast today? THIS CANNOT STAND! This is an affront to humanity! Everything is officially ruined forever!"

Everyone knows eggs benedict is the best!

As to the comments of tearing out half the pages of a codes... t'was forever thus! You'll find the game a lot more balanced if you and your opponent draw from the whole codex, if they refuse to do anything but break the codex then find new opponents; your current ones are broken for you!

Knifeparty
04-12-2013, 21:28
Lol bro maybe you are playing against players that are too competitive? I think 6th is great when playing with mates. Having a couple of beers, not just taking 3 riptides but for example tau flyers, carnifexes, chaos land raiders and those cool orks with the random guns liek snockk attack gun

You are indeed correct. I would love to play against fun players if could find any that is. But honestly, there's a local group that play together and that is that. I have no problem cheesing it up in fantasy, fluffy or competitive I can deal (Fantasy is my game of choice). There seems to be much more of a leaning towards WAAC playing with 40K players than with fantasy. It just seems like everything that I enjoy Fluff wise/model wise with 40K sucks the big one when it comes to the actual game.

My gripes run deeper, there are many questionable rules in 6th edition for me and it is rather depressing because I really love the 40K universe and GW models, I just can't seem to win when it comes to the actual game. There seems to be a large disconnect between the fluff and the games and for me that is a problem.

At this point nothing short of a hard reset of the rules will get me back into 40K.

At least I still have the hobby aspect. Working on 10000 points of Black Legion, hopefully I'll start 10000 points of Black Templars to face them.

Harwammer
04-12-2013, 21:38
Wow, those projects do sound good! Hopefully you'll have them ready for tenth edition :D. It's a pity you can't find anyone with the same gaming ethos as you to play 40k with :(

Plague Lord
04-12-2013, 22:01
You are indeed correct. I would love to play against fun players if could find any that is. But honestly, there's a local group that play together and that is that. I have no problem cheesing it up in fantasy, fluffy or competitive I can deal (Fantasy is my game of choice). There seems to be much more of a leaning towards WAAC playing with 40K players than with fantasy. It just seems like everything that I enjoy Fluff wise/model wise with 40K sucks the big one when it comes to the actual game.

My gripes run deeper, there are many questionable rules in 6th edition for me and it is rather depressing because I really love the 40K universe and GW models, I just can't seem to win when it comes to the actual game. There seems to be a large disconnect between the fluff and the games and for me that is a problem.

At this point nothing short of a hard reset of the rules will get me back into 40K.

At least I still have the hobby aspect. Working on 10000 points of Black Legion, hopefully I'll start 10000 points of Black Templars to face them.

Shame bro shame. I play only with mates and those are good ones to that. When we have a free weekend to game it usually goes like this: Ping pong(or table tenis), picking army lists and so on, more ping pong, beer, a long game of 40k ranging from 2kpts to 3k then some more ping pong and guitar jamming. If we have time we play another ;] If the house is free then we drink vodka...

You play chaos, I get it you might be pissed at how easily csm are and how they are pale in comparison to loyalist marines. However there are elements of the csm that are fun. PLague marines, special characters, noise marines, spawn, the daemon engines and the like. PLAGUE ZOMBIES ROCK for instance. We have an idea to field 3000points of typhus, a few spawn and zombies against tau.

Cities of death can make fun games still. Maybe try and get some mates into the hobby?

Gingerwerewolf
04-12-2013, 22:13
No, the worst jump was from 1st to 2nd.


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There was no real jump from 1st to 2nd.

Close combat rules were trialled in WD as were the vehicle rules. The very simply dumped the Cool/Wp stat as it was identicle to Ld. Thats what changed. The codex's instead of suppliment was needed!

Ill give you Psychic powers changed from 1 to 2 but nothing as big as the make everything move 6". Redesign every gun, complete redesign of the asssult phase and completely recalculate every units point value while bringing out a new race!

Back on point Ive played since 1st and still love 40k as much now as then. Hell 6th is better than 2nd and that was my favorite!

Knifeparty
04-12-2013, 22:18
Wow, those projects do sound good! Hopefully you'll have them ready for tenth edition

Ha Ha, thanks. I probably will have them ready for 10th considering I also have a 6000 pt Vampire Count project thats almost done. A 6000 point Chaos army that is half way complete and I'm re-doing my entire Dark Elf army that will be near 10000 point once completed.

Thank the Dark Gods I invested in an Airbrush.


Cities of death can make fun games still. Maybe try and get some mates into the hobby?

Cities of death is pretty cool. I've always considered doing my own city of death table, a lot of work though.

Maybe I'll just sit 6th edition out and paint so that I'm ready for 7th.

Harwammer
04-12-2013, 23:20
yeah sometimes it is worth sitting an edition out, or at least not dipping in to it very deeply. You can assemble and paint what you like without having to worry about if it fits the rules, if it will make a good army, etc because by the time you jump back in to it the rules and 'balance' has been reshuffled anyway!

Retrospectus
05-12-2013, 21:09
I've been gaming for over 25 years and 40K is one of my favourite games right now.

I'm having loads of fun with 6th edition. I love playing my Orks, and despite being the oldest Codex they're just as much fun and still competetive. I find GW models some of the best available and compared to other hobbies and games I find the prices reasonable too. But then I'm a CMG player.

I always loved how their fighting style (throw lots of boyz and dakka at the enemy and see what sticks) was so straightforward and pragmatic that the codex has survived two edition changes while still retaining multiple useful builds. there are armies released in the past few years with fewer useful builds! they truly are the most timeless army

zam2
07-12-2013, 09:35
Usually I'm all about supporting GW and all their systems, and I try to remain as positive as I can but 6th edition seriously has to be the worst edition I've ever played. I'm not sure how everyone has had so much fun, but the sit back and shoot edition is straight up boring. For me it's a combination of close combat (the reason I find warhammer enjoyable) being severely underpowered and my favourite armies getting the hose (chaos, dark eldar, sisters, black Templars).

There's so much shooting from top tier armies I actually don't see the point of getting my army out of my case because I will have lost half of my army by second turn.

I can pretty much rip out half the pages in any codex that are obselete. Do they shoot? Ok good, are they combat oriented? Ok, rip it out because it's useless.

I can tell you, straight up, you aren't playing with nearly enough terrain if this is what's making the game so bad for you. Plonk down more terrain and you will see a much more enjoyable game(if only to hear the gunline player bitch about how he can't turn 2 win anymore).