PDA

View Full Version : Rock Hard?



Vedar
17-07-2012, 18:31
Did this make anyone else laugh?

My take was Oh crap, lets sell as many tanks as possible before people figure out hull points make vehicles go down faster than a dress on prom night.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?type=article&aId=22400025a

Max_Killfactor
17-07-2012, 18:50
When I was looking at General discussion, I saw the following threads:

Is anyone else...
What idiot is designing Assault Cannons?
Rock Hard?
Eldar Wishlist.
Gets hot

Made me giggle. If only the assault cannon thread wasn't there..

Back on topic, it does seem like odd timing.

Lord Damocles
17-07-2012, 18:55
The Stompa isn't a tank.


EDIT: Neither is the Doomsday Ark, for that matter.

angelofrage
17-07-2012, 19:05
In Warhammer 40,000, tanks are more resilient than ever before

Unless you're facing Necrons. Then you may as well not bother getting your Land Raider out of the case.

yabbadabba
17-07-2012, 19:09
Someone else gets excited that advertising and reality don't match up.

Konovalev
17-07-2012, 19:25
To be fair, some of those "tanks" are quite tough due to wargear confering saves, structure points, or 14 all around.

Why the manticore is in there though is a mystery to me. Chalk that one up to the power of the (GW websites) machine spirit I guess.

Chem-Dog
17-07-2012, 19:28
The Stompa isn't a tank.


EDIT: Neither is the Doomsday Ark, for that matter.

Depends if you're talking about the Game Classification or the concept of a "Tank" being something that soaks up damage. They could both be considered the latter.

Inquisitor Engel
17-07-2012, 19:34
Is anyone else...
What idiot is designing Assault Cannons?
Rock Hard?
Eldar Wishlist.
Gets hot

Made me giggle. If only the assault cannon thread wasn't there..


Dude - this is what I saw:

145530

Konovalev
17-07-2012, 19:39
Dude - this is what I saw:

Yikes. I bet this is how the Eldar fell... internet forums are not to unlike the webway...

badguyshaveallthefun
17-07-2012, 19:40
This just proves to me that Games Workshop is a business first and a game second (which we all knew anyway).

Around here everyone scrambled to buy as many tanks as they could before the most recent price hike, only to discover once 6th hit that it would have been better to spend that $$ on infantry instead; oh well, tanks are still cool.

Games Workshop: 1
My LGS: 0

Gunless Ganger
17-07-2012, 19:41
Someone else gets excited that advertising and reality don't match up.

I think it was a pretty light-hearted poke at some lame advertising copy - why you gotta be like this bro? ;)

But really, no one expects advertising and reality to match perfectly, but drift too far from reality and it's false advertising and illegal in most places.


In Warhammer 40,000, tanks are more resilient than ever before. They can also fire more of their weapons more of the time - and if shooting doesn't kill your foes, then you can drive into - and through - densely packed enemy units. Browse through our selection of Rock Hard Tanks - don't forget, you can add allied tanks to your army.

Lets break down that paragraph that you say is obvious advertising that doesn't line up with reality:

"you can add allied tanks to your army." = True
"you can drive into - and through - densely packed enemy units." = True
"They can also fire more of their weapons more of the time" = True
"In Warhammer 40,000, tanks are more resilient than ever before" = Must be false - otherwise the whole paragraph would be true. Also could probably be demonstrably false since someone could prove with mathhammer that it is almost always easier to kill tanks now than in 5th ed.

So that's a pretty big phrase to fudge up on - the whole point of Rock Hard Tanks - is that they are erm ... rock hard. Without even getting into a discussion of GW plastic v. rocks on the Mohs scale I think we can conclude that the driving message of the article is not just kinda-sorta-false, but outright wrong. Thus entire article is not just a splashy ad, it actually reeks of desperation - thus well deserving of online ridicule.

Now of course, explaining it all like that kind of wrecks the joke, but I guess that's what happens when one needs to kill time till work ends.

~ GG

Apply ";)" to this whole post. I play :chrome: so I hope everyone keeps buying and fielding tanks like mad!

Vaktathi
17-07-2012, 19:48
Apparently they forgot the new mechanics they put in to specifically make tanks significantly easier to kill than ever before :p

I might genuinely have been tempted to pick up a couple of Fire Prisms in the last couple of weeks had it not been for Hull Points and the CC to-hit nerf.

Quaade
17-07-2012, 20:37
Tanks are rock hard, they are just not potentially immortal as they used to be. In that regard, the advertising is true since in 3rd and 4th vehicles exploded if you as much looked at the sideways while in 5th they were immortal and immortality is not the same as rock hard.

micf2302
17-07-2012, 21:00
Tanks are rock hard, they are just not potentially immortal as they used to be. In that regard, the advertising is true since in 3rd and 4th vehicles exploded if you as much looked at the sideways while in 5th they were immortal and immortality is not the same as rock hard.

Hmmmm... Hmmmm...

"In Warhammer 40,000, tanks are more resilient than ever before"

Rick Blaine
17-07-2012, 21:14
I might genuinely have been tempted to pick up a couple of Fire Prisms in the last couple of weeks had it not been for Hull Points and the CC to-hit nerf.

If you manage to get your Fire Prisms assaulted on a regular basis I can see why you think tanks are bad, yeah :angel:

Punjoke
17-07-2012, 21:25
While it's harder for a tank to survive an entire game, it's also much less likely for them to go down on the first turn. It's also harder stop them from unloading on you before they do finally explode, since glancing doesn't prevent them from firing weapons.

Max_Killfactor
17-07-2012, 21:59
Dude - this is what I saw:

145530

Oh man, you win. I really wanted to see that.

Thanks Overlord Krycis and Vedar for making my day.

Vaktathi
17-07-2012, 22:03
If you manage to get your Fire Prisms assaulted on a regular basis I can see why you think tanks are bad, yeah :angel:Between the myriad of deployment methods, the speed of many units, and the size of armies covering enough of the board, it's not a rare event by any means. It applies just as equally to wave serpents, falcons, etc (though I already own enough falcons to fill two FoC's...maybe more...), and that's to say nothing of how Holo-field utility has taken a gigantic nose dive and you need significantly less firepower to bring a holo-field tank down now (well...any tank).



While it's harder for a tank to survive an entire game, it's also much less likely for them to go down on the first turn. It's also harder stop them from unloading on you before they do finally explode, since glancing doesn't prevent them from firing weapons.On the first *shot* maybe, assuming it is not Ap1 or AP2. Sheer volume of fire often may mean it does more often on turn 1 than they did previously however, especially when coupled with the reduction in cover from 4+ to 5+. On average it took 18 BS3 autocannon shots to kill a rhino under 5E, now it takes an average of ~9 between chances to outright kill and hull points.

Thoth62
18-07-2012, 04:52
This just proves to me that Games Workshop is a business first and a game second (which we all knew anyway).

Around here everyone scrambled to buy as many tanks as they could before the most recent price hike, only to discover once 6th hit that it would have been better to spend that $$ on infantry instead; oh well, tanks are still cool.

Games Workshop: 1
My LGS: 0

Is it bad that I read this and physically laughed out loud? My sympathies, as I've always been a treadhead, but I thought this was pretty funny.

Scribe of Khorne
18-07-2012, 05:16
Did this make anyone else laugh?

My take was Oh crap, lets sell as many tanks as possible before people figure out hull points make vehicles go down faster than a dress on prom night.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?type=article&aId=22400025a

I would say your 100% correct, I did get a good laugh out of it. :chrome:

Friedrich von Offenbach
18-07-2012, 06:59
It says "In Warhammer 40,000, tanks are more resilient than ever before." I too am not sure thats quite accurate.....

Spell_of_Destruction
18-07-2012, 07:33
Now I feel even less comfortable accessing the GW website at work!

Capamaru
18-07-2012, 08:15
So I will try to get into the advertisers mind..


In Warhammer 40,000, tanks are more resilient than ever before.

I hope they bite that cause someone from the playtest department told me tanks now suck in Warhammer... wait, did he said Warhammer or Warhammer 40k? I remember there is a tank in Warhammer but I can't recall if it's the one we talk about. Oohh crap I just write 40k...



They can also fire more of their weapons more of the time - and if shooting doesn't kill your foes, then you can drive into - and through - densely packed enemy units.


Hehe I saw that is true! Tank can fire all of its weapons for the single round that stays alive!! For once I am not lying!! I hope they don't mind the drive into part I added! That's what I ll do if I was in a tank! Hell that's what I ll do in my car to hunt down those damn kids in my neighborhood.


Browse through our selection of Rock Hard Tanks - don't forget, you can add allied tanks to your army.

Welcome to Walmart! Shop you ass out!! And don't forget color on the picture doesn't matter anymore cause anything goes with anything. Mix things up people!!

Kakapo42
18-07-2012, 08:49
So I will try to get into the advertisers mind..



I hope they bite that cause someone from the playtest department told me tanks now suck in Warhammer... wait, did he said Warhammer or Warhammer 40k? I remember there is a tank in Warhammer but I can't recall if it's the one we talk about. Oohh crap I just write 40k...





Hehe I saw that is true! Tank can fire all of its weapons for the single round that stays alive!! For once I am not lying!! I hope they don't mind the drive into part I added! That's what I ll do if I was in a tank! Hell that's what I ll do in my car to hunt down those damn kids in my neighborhood.



Welcome to Walmart! Shop you ass out!! And don't forget color on the picture doesn't matter anymore cause anything goes with anything. Mix things up people!!

Yes because when you're advertising tanks you are so totally going to say they are bad and not convince people to buy them.

I still reserve judgment on Tank vulnerability until I have seen for myself (I recently spent my table-top budget on Battlefleet Gothic space ships, so I am still sans rulebook), but fragile or no a massive armoured death machine armed to the teeth always makes for a good centrepiece.

Capamaru
18-07-2012, 09:00
Yes because when you're advertising tanks you are so totally going to say they are bad and not convince people to buy them.

I still reserve judgment on Tank vulnerability until I have seen for myself (I recently spent my table-top budget on Battlefleet Gothic space ships, so I am still sans rulebook), but fragile or no a massive armoured death machine armed to the teeth always makes for a good centrepiece.

Let me look this up for you... I reserve my right to:

sarcasm
Origin:
1570–80; < Late Latin sarcasmus < Greek sarkasmós, derivative of sarkázein to rend (flesh), sneer; see sarco-
— n
1. mocking, contemptuous, or ironic language intended to convey scorn or insult
2. the use or tone of such language

Ofcourse they are free to lie but I don't have the right to be sarcastic! I can be as sarcastic as I want! It's a Greek word after all :P.

xxRavenxx
18-07-2012, 09:02
As usual I blame this on "the internet" as opposed to "the evil company".

1. Its marketing.
2. Have people actually played games of 40k yet? Because with no glancing hit table, and nerfs to shaken and stunned, I'd say that tanks are indeed harder to *stop* overall. Just with a preset kill limit thrown on so they aren't invunerable. Oh, and don't forget the nerfs they added to most MCs vs. vehicles too.

Overlord Krycis
18-07-2012, 09:11
Oh man, you win. I really wanted to see that.

Thanks Overlord Krycis and Vedar for making my day.

You're welcome :D

Killgore
18-07-2012, 09:36
As usual I blame this on "the internet" as opposed to "the evil company".

1. Its marketing.
2. Have people actually played games of 40k yet? Because with no glancing hit table, and nerfs to shaken and stunned, I'd say that tanks are indeed harder to *stop* overall. Just with a preset kill limit thrown on so they aren't invunerable. Oh, and don't forget the nerfs they added to most MCs vs. vehicles too.

Fantastic, someone who is posting in this thread has really played a game or two of 6th ed, shame the rest of armchair generals posting here have yet to do this.

As for the comment of 18 autocannon shots to kill a 40 point rhino, step back and have a think about that stat, does this tell you that there was something horribly wrong with this? Name a non vehicle unit of equal points that can survive that amount of firepower?

hazmiter
18-07-2012, 10:09
Tanks and dread noughts in 40k are more easily dispatched, but, also more hard to kill..... That 6 on the pen chart is elusive......

IcedCrow
18-07-2012, 13:48
I'm still seeing tanks sticking around as long a they were a couple months ago. So I disagree they are more resiliant but also disagree that they are so uber easy to kill now.

Vaktathi
18-07-2012, 15:24
As usual I blame this on "the internet" as opposed to "the evil company".

1. Its marketing. It's marketing based on a poor representation of the rules. Tanks are not more resilient than ever before aside from the chance to get one-shotted by non AP1/2 weaponry. They very intentionally went out of their way to reduce their lifespan on the table.



2. Have people actually played games of 40k yet? Because with no glancing hit table, and nerfs to shaken and stunned, I'd say that tanks are indeed harder to *stop* overall. Just with a preset kill limit thrown on so they aren't invunerable. Oh, and don't forget the nerfs they added to most MCs vs. vehicles too. Just out of curiosity, what nerfs to MC's? Aside from they can be hurt with grenades and brought down (but not killed) if they fly and the general reduction in cover saves across the board on almost everything? Tanks were never invulnerable, just random.


Fantastic, someone who is posting in this thread has really played a game or two of 6th ed, shame the rest of armchair generals posting here have yet to do this. Yes...because the one person you agree with is *obviously* the only one who has played any 6th ed, and everyone who disagrees with you *obviously* has not.



As for the comment of 18 autocannon shots to kill a 40 point rhino, step back and have a think about that stat, does this tell you that there was something horribly wrong with this? Name a non vehicle unit of equal points that can survive that amount of firepower?I can think of many that take roughly as much or a lot more. Canoptek Spyder. 50pt MC taking an average of 27 BS3 autocannon hits to take down. A 40pt Terminator or Bloodcrusher, 35pt Wraith, or a 23pt Plague Marine takes an average of 14.4 BS3 Autocannon shots to take down (a bit less, but similar, and can't be crippled or disabled before destruction, and can fight quite effectively in CC). 40pt Ork Nob in Mega Armor or a 55pt Paladin both take 28.8 BS3 autocannon shots to take down.