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ESP0DAMUS
28-07-2012, 15:32
Hey guys. I am a Warriors of Chaos player that goes all the way back to 4th Edition. Although, to be fair, I did miss pretty much all of 7th Edition. One thing I really miss is the diversity of my Warriors of Chaos and I got to thinking about ways that Deamons coud be reintroduced to the army (especially with the new 8th book supposedly around the corner). I know this isn't going to happen, but I was curious to see what you guys on the boards thought.

What do you guys think about giving each of the choas lores (Tzeentch, Nurgle, and Slaanesh) one summoning spell? Lets call it "Summon Horrors/Plaguebearers/Deamonettes". It could work like the Vampire Counts summoning spells. I would imagine that it could be the #5 spell on the list, leaving the #6 spell to still be something unique to each god. As far as Bloodletters and/or Furies go, this would either have to be an impossibility or there would have to be a special spell that could only be used by undivided chaos sorcerers that could only be used to summon these deamons.

This way we WoC players have access to the variety that Deamons provide and we it still fits in perfecty, fluff wise.

What do you guys think?

Agoz
28-07-2012, 15:40
I think deamon summoning spells would be a welcome addition to the warriors spell lists.

Urgat
28-07-2012, 15:53
Hey guys. I am a Warriors of Chaos player that goes all the way back to 4th Edition. Although, to be fair, I did miss pretty much all of 7th Edition. One thing I really miss is the diversity of my Warriors of Chaos and I got to thinking about ways that Deamons coud be reintroduced to the army (especially with the new 8th book supposedly around the corner). I know this isn't going to happen, but I was curious to see what you guys on the boards thought.

What do you guys think about giving each of the choas lores (Tzeentch, Nurgle, and Slaanesh) one summoning spell? Lets call it "Summon Horrors/Plaguebearers/Deamonettes". It could work like the Vampire Counts summoning spells. I would imagine that it could be the #5 spell on the list, leaving the #6 spell to still be something unique to each god. As far as Bloodletters and/or Furies go, this would either have to be an impossibility or there would have to be a special spell that could only be used by undivided chaos sorcerers that could only be used to summon these deamons.

This way we WoC players have access to the variety that Deamons provide and we it still fits in perfecty, fluff wise.

What do you guys think?

Plenty of ways that it could be done. For the time being, the Warhammer Forge book "Tamurkhan" gives you rules to field mixed armies.

Smithpod68
28-07-2012, 15:58
You could run them as allies using the rules in the BRB or as a pact using SoM rules.

Fizzy
28-07-2012, 16:00
Play the Tamurkhan: The throne of chaos. I am planning to start an army like that.

bildo
28-07-2012, 16:05
yeh i think the 8th ed. army book should be based on a paragon

Soundwave
28-07-2012, 18:33
Ahh the good old days.More importantly this combination would give a great plethora of models to paint,chaos warriors are fantastic but really do become soooo drab to paint one unit after the other!

SimaoSegunda
28-07-2012, 19:23
To expand on your summoning spells idea, maybe a new Magic Lore available to Chaos Warriors: The Summoner Lore. Instead of having a spell for each God (Which would be a total waste of a spell for someone who wasn't interested in daemons), have something that sorts daemons by power level, E.g:
Sig Spell = Summon D6 wounds of Nurglings/Warhounds/Furies,
Spell 1 = Summon D6 wounds of Plaguebearers/Daemonettes/Horrors,
Spell 2 = Give an already-summoned Daemon unit a Full Command,
Spell 3 = Summon 2D6 wounds of Nurg/Hound/Furie,
Spell 4 = Summon D6 wounds of Flamers/Crushers/Seekers,
Spell 5 = Daemon Attack! Force an enemy wizard within 12" to take an LD test at base LD, if failed, roll on the miscast table,
Spell 6 = Summon a Herald.
Lore Attribute: Favoured of the Gods - If a spell from this lore is successfully cast, the casting wizard gets a 6+ Ward save until the start of the caster's next magic phase.

Maybe have the type of Daemon chosen when casting the spell, unless the caster has a Mark of Chaos, in which case he must summon daemons of that mark.

Thoughts?

theunwantedbeing
28-07-2012, 19:49
Thoughts?

I prefer the idea of summoning daemons you bought and paid for out of the army allowance.

SimaoSegunda
28-07-2012, 19:54
You mean like they did in 40k 2nd ed? But that was pants.

theJ
28-07-2012, 20:13
If you were to ask me(which nobody ever does, but I tend to answer regardless) the easiest path would be to follow in the footsteps of 40K 6th and expand the Ally system to allow a "subarmy" within your current army without the need for bringing along another player or houseruling. I.E. Your Warriors could bring along a couple Daemons, a couple Beastmen, or forge a (somewhat less effective) alliance with Dark Elves, Greenskins, Skaven or Ogres(and possibly others as well). All of the other armies would have they own set of potential allies, on various tiers of "trustedness", without the whole "order vs destruction" or "degenerating alliance" nonsense.

sulla
28-07-2012, 20:56
I prefer the idea of summoning daemons you bought and paid for out of the army allowance.
Yeah no-one likes playing against an army that finishes off bigger than it started the game like 7th edition undead...

Djekar
29-07-2012, 06:53
I miss mixed armies - I've been toying with replacing chosen with the appropriate Daemonic infantry (and also replacing Marauders with Gor/Ungor) in my Warriors of Chaos army. I love the idea of being able to summon proper daemons, though they should probably be paid for out of points or things get a little wonky - fast.

Snake1311
01-08-2012, 12:02
If you were to ask me(which nobody ever does, but I tend to answer regardless) the easiest path would be to follow in the footsteps of 40K 6th and expand the Ally system to allow a "subarmy" within your current army without the need for bringing along another player or houseruling. I.E. Your Warriors could bring along a couple Daemons, a couple Beastmen, or forge a (somewhat less effective) alliance with Dark Elves, Greenskins, Skaven or Ogres(and possibly others as well). All of the other armies would have they own set of potential allies, on various tiers of "trustedness", without the whole "order vs destruction" or "degenerating alliance" nonsense.

The ally system is the worst idea in the world, unless its restricted to core choices only.

Got a problem with monsters? No problem, insert cannon here. Don't have access to some lore you'd like? NP, allied mage coming up. Need more swiftstrider, cheap chaff, dispell options, insane unit buffers (empire priests in a bret lance?)?

Anyone who has ever played in a competitive doubles setting will be against this crap making it into the mainstream game.


While we're on topic though, I'm in favor of re-merging the 3 chaos books (not that it would happen), they all follow a very similar playstyle anyway.

theJ
01-08-2012, 12:34
@Snake1311: ...which is why you don't allow characters to join "allied" units. You are for all intents and purposes playing two armies at once, not a single army using two books. Elves getting cannons(as an example) might seem broken at first, but consider that you'll have to pay "tax" in the form of even more core and additional characters and it gets a lot more reasonable...

Joining the three books seem good at first, but then you realise just how many units get crammed into a single book... I'm gonna have to say no to this. I'd be perfectly open to the idea of moving the split - I.E. Have one book per god instead of one per race, but removing the split entirely will get FAR messier than the ally system...

Snake1311
01-08-2012, 13:03
@Snake1311: ...which is why you don't allow characters to join "allied" units. You are for all intents and purposes playing two armies at once, not a single army using two books. Elves getting cannons(as an example) might seem broken at first, but consider that you'll have to pay "tax" in the form of even more core and additional characters and it gets a lot more reasonable...


Ok, lets assume u can't join up units (which isn't what the current Allied rules say at the moment btw). How will you deal with powerdice for example? As a dwarf player, dipping into any other faction enough so I can take a mage is an absolutely insane improvement.

I suppose you could try some convoluted rule that (for example) the entire allied force comes out your rare allowance, and that allied force has to follow the standard army construction rules (so in a standard 2k game you wouldn't be able to field any allied entry above 125pts, and that is if you dedicate the full 25% rares to allies), and you'd end up with core in your rare slots. But to be honest, I think even that would be abusable and would seriously affect game balance. Continuing the dwarf example (since its what I play) I would happily dedicate my rare slot to something like, lets say, ogres (which are my second army). 500 pts are some much needed chaff fo core (gnoblars). much needed swiftstrider in specials (2 mournfangs) and a firebelly (which means I get to use power dice rather than just throw them away). That is much, much better than anything else I could have possibly done with those points.

The above setup also serisouly disadvantages armies that currently have amazing rare selections.

And how will you limit who can ally with whom? That will throw a spanner in book balance as well.

IcedCrow
01-08-2012, 13:09
Our league uses allies. 2250 points, 250 of those can be allies which can consist of a hero and core choices. 2500 points = 500 points which can be allies. Use the ally chart we only let order ally with order and neutral, destruction with destruction and neutral and neutral with anyone but using the ally rules in the BRB.

Nymie_the_Pooh
01-08-2012, 14:10
If you are doing something like this I guess it's fairly safe to assume you are planning on using the rules just with friends and they are okay with the idea. If that is the case then go for it. The idea could be fun and is somewhat fitting. Be prepared to constantly rework the idea for the first few months at least.

It would probably be easier to do what happened right after the army split and take one Chaos army as your main force then the core troops from the other two books count as special choices with special units being bought as rares. The general would need to be the same as the main force, but you shouldn't have too many balance issues mixing and matching after that outside of possible broken combos that can be addressed as they come up. Limit characters to only joining units from their army book then go from there.

BigbyWolf
01-08-2012, 14:28
Being able to summon 18(?) point Daemons is a little different to 5 point Skellies...

Personally, I think that the daemon core would be perfect at representing Chosen Chaos Warriors.

T10
02-08-2012, 13:26
Thoughts?

Meh.

I approve of the idea of an Invocation of Nehek-like spell for the Daemons of Chaos army list that restores wounds to models with the Daemonice special rule, but then I would also like to see Daemons as Unbreakable and Unstable, like the Undead.



-T10