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Doommasters
30-07-2012, 03:32
So far the discussion on the Soulgrinder has been all about the 'model' and does it fit the fantasy image............lets not discuss that in this thread. Instead lets look at combat potential and disucss where the Soulgrinder sits on the spectrum of other monsters in its class.

I have not play tested it or played against it so can't comment just yet, but would like to hear from anyone that has ;)

DaemonReign
30-07-2012, 04:05
I think it looks all right point-wise.
If I could stand the idea of seeing the model on the table in a Fantasy-setting it would definately replace my Flamers in the Rare Section.. Just as intended. ;)

Doommasters
30-07-2012, 04:17
I think it looks all right point-wise.
If I could stand the idea of seeing the model on the table in a Fantasy-setting it would definately replace my Flamers in the Rare Section.. Just as intended. ;)

Lest not discuss the looks of the model here there is another thread doing a good job of that allready....

Coldblood666
30-07-2012, 05:48
I think its fairly priced and can do well against other monsters. I would use the flame cannon upgrade though probably.

Bladelord
30-07-2012, 07:01
I believe the cannon are a solid option, plus there's already a perfect model if you want to use it: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440212a&prodId=prod1090581.

[LLCT]Kain
30-07-2012, 07:16
Hi,

played yesterday vs exactly that model including the flame cannon.
My key takeaways are:
- you need a base (especially with the flamecannon) to play it somewhere fair.
otherwise it is hard to meassure, determine front and flank, Los etc.
- the thing is big. If it is not in the front line it gets easily blocked by own troops for movement or charges (see base above)
- T7 and 5+WS is tough
- I missed the fact that it has also thunderstomp and lost a unit of shades to it (which would not be impressed by 4 attacks)

Pointwise it seems to be ok, especially in the context of the daemon army where you struggle to get some meat (e.g. a good model count).
The sould grinder is nothing you can just run by and kill - but it is not unbeatable. Best option I would see with a simple hero on a small flying mount.
Treat wounds and win by one/two for charging(+flank)... it feels a bit like the hellcannon, but bigger.

(as this should be excluded from the thread: looks odd to be double the size of a greater daemon)

GrandmasterWang
30-07-2012, 07:37
I think its great. Now people have 2 fatties (gd and grinder) to worry about.

Bolt thrower upgrade should not be more than the rest. 5 pts extra)

Provides some good benefits for its cost. Overall I like

Sexiest_hero
30-07-2012, 16:17
It's scary, Just setting it up against Empire or elves is a bonus. It's stats are good and fair, but it also causes terror in players.

Ben Curry
30-07-2012, 16:24
I'be been trying to write a Bloodthirster + Double Soul Grinder list and its just too tough to fit the points for it. I think what it comes down to is that In almost all situations 300 Points could be better spent on Bloodletters!

King Arthur
30-07-2012, 16:30
t7 is very strong as even sword masters and charging knights (basic) will have to wound on 6's also having a ward save is very good I probably would say 20 points more to avoid it being placed in a 1k army?

King Arthur
30-07-2012, 16:31
espcially as a soulgrinder will get "mauled" by cannons and such like

sandpeople
15-08-2012, 05:27
I will try two of them along with a great unclean one.
Point-wise I feel they are right on spot. Not dirt cheap lile the hydra and not way tonexpensive like the ghorgon.
Stone thrower or fire thrower along with the claw seems about right. And I love the fact that they can be included in 1000pts games!

Perhaps they will need to be close to the general and bsb to make it against elite troops. And it is always fun to think about what you can do with stubborn banner or lore of light...

sulla
15-08-2012, 05:38
espcially as a soulgrinder will get "mauled" by cannons and such like...But protect your greater daemon by doing so, and perhaps wreck an enemy unit with it's flame cannon before it goes down. I'll certainly be taking one the next time I take daemons.

Lord Inquisitor
15-08-2012, 05:42
It seems well priced, excluding the bolt thrower upgrade and the useless grapeshot.

It is very nice and solid monster, durable enough to take a few cannonballs or skink shots without keeling over. Offensively the flame cannon is nasty but hard to get into position. Like the thundertusk or hierotitan it has low attacks and really struggles against non infantry as it can't thunderstomp.

It does have special merit for daemons as it provides target saturation for cannons and takes a little heat away from a greater daemon.

It's a bit too pricey to get away with two, by that point after I've bought a GD and minimum core it doesn't leave enough points for all the other important bits.

Urgat
15-08-2012, 08:39
It doesn't scare me (the "omg how can I deal with that?" way), but worries me (the "if it does this or that it's going to be a pain but if I do this..." way), nor do I think "you can take how many at 2.5k pts?" when I read its rules, so it has to be fine for me :) It's clearly a fun tool for bigger games, like most of the new monsters, rather than a part of the optimal build of doom.

nurgle5
15-08-2012, 10:48
I can't decide whether to use the flame cannon or the stone thrower upgrade, which has better synergy with the 'grinder?

Urgat
15-08-2012, 12:44
I'd personally go with not buying any options to keep it cheaper, but the template is certainly the best choice.

Rudra34
15-08-2012, 15:37
I can't decide whether to use the flame cannon or the stone thrower upgrade, which has better synergy with the 'grinder?

I would go flame cannon any day of the week. You will get greater range with a stone thrower, but you want him to get up in the enemy's face for supporting combat. With the flame cannon he can run down he flank, turn and shoot the enemy line as it marches forward, and then charge in from the side to give major headaches.

Try both, see which style you like more.

Lord Inquisitor
15-08-2012, 15:46
I've been running the flame cannon and it's alright but I'm not finding it amazing. The stone thrower works turn 1 and is pretty versatile if inaccurate. I'm going to keep with the flame cannon a bit (not played any armies with massed infantry with it yet, weirdly enough) see how it goes. If you can get the flame cannon round the flanks of an enemy army or punch through behind their lines it is amazing but it's kind of tricky and I tend to find by the time it's in range the enemy or the grinder are in combat.

nurgle5
15-08-2012, 18:08
hmmm.. A lot of my opponents use fairly mobile armies, so I'm sure how the flame cannon might go down; I've never used one, so I'm not entirely sure what they're good for. I might just use the stone thrower upgrade for the time being; use the 'grinder as shooting support while closing down a flank (can't imagine many units would want to charge it).

Lord Inquisitor
15-08-2012, 18:26
If you can get in position to flame an infantry unit from the flank, you can with a bit of luck cripple the unit. If you get behind their lines, it can be a massive problem for the enemy as the Grinder can just dance around units flaming them but it can't be ignored as a rear charge often offends.

However it's seriously vulnerable if unsupported. Heavy cav, in particular, can just wreck a soul grinder. For example, five empire knights with a banner charge. Soulgrinder hits twice, one wound after saves. The knights average about a wound too. You lose by two - take that instability check. If it's running around the flank like we've been saying, that's Ld5 with no general or BSB nearby. Worse if the grinder gets charged in the flank or rear. Monstrous units are also very dangerous (although the claw can help).

I think it's good, worth the points but far from an easy unit to use.

Maoriboy007
15-08-2012, 19:57
If you can get in position to flame an infantry unit from the flank, you can with a bit of luck cripple the unit. If you get behind their lines, it can be a massive problem for the enemy as the Grinder can just dance around units flaming them but it can't be ignored as a rear charge often offends. .Indeed , one turn of marching and you can be in a very good position to cause havok with the flame template without too much effort.

However it's seriously vulnerable if unsupported..Not much more than similar monster units, and its more versatile than most.

Heavy cav, in particular, can just wreck a soul grinder. For example, five empire knights with a banner charge. Soulgrinder hits twice, one wound after saves. The knights average about a wound too.Heavey cav wrecks most units, I would think with an armour and ward save the Grinder is actually better off than most.

You lose by two - take that instability check. If it's running around the flank like we've been saying, that's Ld5 with no general or BSB nearby. Worse if the grinder gets charged in the flank or rear. Monstrous units are also very dangerous (although the claw can help). .To be fair its a demonic instability test, which is better than a normal instability test, or even with a normal break test in many cases.

I think it's good, worth the points but far from an easy unit to use.Yep, sems pretty good to me, it seems like a terrorgheist unit, without the flying but more punch and resilience, even more mobility in some ways.

Jind_Singh
15-08-2012, 20:23
It's actually great - a really well priced unit, as were the other Daemonic units in the new update - good enough that it's going to contend with the opponents mind for threat level, not broken, it's not cheap/expensive - other than the bolt thrower upgrade, and while it's got high toughness/save it's got a low damage output - which balances the unit.

My Gobbos wouldn't care too much - as they have massive amounts of access to poison, but even armies that don't could handle this beast.

Lord Inquisitor
15-08-2012, 20:38
Indeed , one turn of marching and you can be in a very good position to cause havok with the flame template without too much effort.
No disagreement but turn 1 march, turn 2 most of your army is probably in combat and so are they. The enemy can easily block the soulgrinder with the massive base and if not kept close to the general/bsb it can get marchblocked.

Just saying, it looks awful easy on paper but actually doing it is more tricky. I've been finding that I'm better off using it in combat on the initial charge, help blow through the enemy and get behind their lines.


Not much more [vulnerable] than similar monster units, and its more versatile than most.
Most monsters are severely underpowered. ;)


Heavey cav wrecks most units, I would think with an armour and ward save the Grinder is actually better off than most.
Eh, most infantry units beat the snot out of heavy cav. Heavy cav is only now really making a return after the initial 8th ed was dominated by infantry. But the good or overpowered monsters (destroyer/abomb/hydra) are pretty nasty to everyone including heavy cav.


To be fair its a demonic instability test, which is better than a normal instability test, or even with a normal break test in many cases.
Actually I find daemonic instability, which is better than regular break tests for most units, is the bane of daemonic monsters or single models. If you lose combat by 5, you might make it out alive (particularly in a multiple combat) to rally next turn, no matter how badly you fail the test. Big monsters like greater daemons - or now the soul grinder - just die.


Yep, sems pretty good to me, it seems like a terrorgheist unit, without the flying but more punch and resilience, even more mobility in some ways.
That is a good comparison and I think it fulfils a similar role. The terrorgheist adds target saturation against cannons, is mobile and dangerous but not really enough combat punch on its own to be really dangerous and it's very vulnerable if not supported.


My Gobbos wouldn't care too much - as they have massive amounts of access to poison, but even armies that don't could handle this beast.
With a 4+ armour and a 5+ ward, it's actually one of the best protected monsters against poison.

Sexiest_hero
15-08-2012, 20:57
It has a belly full of wounds as well. I find they work best with a GUO.

SanDiegoSurrealist
15-08-2012, 21:08
If I could stand the idea of seeing the model on the table in a Fantasy-setting it would definately replace my Flamers in the Rare Section.. Just as intended.

Under the updated rules Flamers are now Special which means you can run even more of them AND Soul Grinder!

I think the SG is awesome, held up a lance of Britt Knights for 4 turns before being hammered down on combat res. I did have the Stubborn Banner on hand but still he took more wounds from CR than from Knights.

Phazael
15-08-2012, 23:36
Its doing nicely for me. I have been doing the Claw/Flame version and its hard to beat the versitility that it brings to the table. Having another cannon magnet also takes heat off of my GD. It might be a bit expensive for what it does, but being extremely versitile has to come with a cost. I really just use mine to hose down infantry blocks and provide late game hammer action, which it is exceptional for.

Far2Casual
16-08-2012, 06:50
Actually I find daemonic instability, which is better than regular break tests for most units, is the bane of daemonic monsters or single models. If you lose combat by 5, you might make it out alive (particularly in a multiple combat) to rally next turn, no matter how badly you fail the test. Big monsters like greater daemons - or now the soul grinder - just die.

Indeed. Daemonic Instability is fantastic as long as you're steadfast/stubborn, but when you're not it can be devastating, especially on monsters : lose the combat by even 1 with a Ld7 monster, any 8+ roll will be worse then "standard" instability. That happened yesterday. Charged the flank of the Soul grinder with some fast cav + banner. He failed his attacks doing one wound, and I managed one too. He lost by 3 (charge, flank, banner), rolled 11, boom. 310 pts owned by 60 points of Skeleton Horsemen.

So be very careful with it, as it's particularly weak against static combat res.

DaemonReign
16-08-2012, 08:05
It's actually great - a really well priced unit, as were the other Daemonic units in the new update -

... Except Flamers (in Fantasy) of course. ;)
We're supposed to load up on SoulGrinders/Screamers for the time being.

The rest of the rules are all right though, which just goes to show really - the Chariots are suiting as Slaanesh Chariots and thus mostly 'prestige' units but painting those models will be a blast!

T10
16-08-2012, 08:16
It could cost a thousand points and still not be worth it!

-T10

sulla
18-08-2012, 22:57
... Except Flamers (in Fantasy) of course. ;)
We're supposed to load up on SoulGrinders/Screamers for the time being.

The rest of the rules are all right though, which just goes to show really - the Chariots are suiting as Slaanesh Chariots and thus mostly 'prestige' units but painting those models will be a blast!I thiught all the daemonic entries were pretty well balanced in that booklet. Screamers rolling to hit on 'fly-bys' really balanced the extra resilience. The chariots are extremely quick but do very little in combat other than the expensive exhalted-mobile, the flamers are much less effective than before, but still useful as skirmishers. The soul grinder is probably more useful for it's synergy with greater daemons (cannon blocking) and big blocks (steadfast removal through flame cannons) than it's actual prowess on the field, although once in a while it's gonna pay off bigtime with it's claw attack.

In many ways, Nurglings are the big winner though because they are relatively cheap, modelwise and the perfect support unit to help out soul grinders and GDs.


hmmm.. A lot of my opponents use fairly mobile armies, so I'm sure how the flame cannon might go down; I've never used one, so I'm not entirely sure what they're good for. I might just use the stone thrower upgrade for the time being; use the 'grinder as shooting support while closing down a flank (can't imagine many units would want to charge it). Just bear in mind that a standard stone thrower is a pretty poor troop killer. A direct hit against your bog standard t3 5+ armour small base infantry only kills about 6 or 7. And it only gets that direct hit one third of the time. The flame cannon is a better bet for mass killing of infantry. Take the stone thrower only if you are worried about large monsters (say in a slaaneshi army, for example).

Kalandros
18-08-2012, 23:18
At 220 pts, the Exalted Seeker Chariot isn't worth taking - its 2d6+1 S4 impacts, ok yay for impact then it gets a bunch of S3 attacks.. ok but its T4 8W.
For 220 pts you could instead have 18 Bloodletters or if you're mono slaanesh, 18 Nettes. Or hey.. 4 Fiends!

The Exalted Herald Chariot is 285 pts without any Gift (though you don't really want any Gift on it, since they don't protect the chariot) - and that comes off your Hero points which are much better used on Siren Herald, BSB Khorne Herald and HoTz with whatever Lore you need.

And that Exalted Herald Chariot - if it charges - will deal 2d6+1 S4, 4 S4, 10 S3, 4 S3 poison attacks - A lot of attacks sure, but most Strength... At least you get ASF rerolls on Herald and 'Nettes attacks.


And back on topic for the Soul Grinder: 260 or 310 with Flamer... thats a whole regiment you could field instead.
The only good way to use it I guess is with Flamer in a list that doesn't want to go to close combat by Turn 2,.... not many daemon lists like that.

sandpeople
23-09-2012, 06:03
And back on topic for the Soul Grinder: 260 or 310 with Flamer... thats a whole regiment you could field instead.
The only good way to use it I guess is with Flamer in a list that doesn't want to go to close combat by Turn 2,.... not many daemon lists like that.

I think it would do best in very specific lists:

2 Soul grinders with baleful torrents along with 40-50 horrors, tzeentch heralds (life or heavens) and power vortex and 18 flamers. Screamers/furies for war machine-hunting.

Or...

Gou with nurgling infestation
Nurgle herald with stubborn banner
Plaguebearers And bloodletters
3 units of nurglings (grows almost every turn and are stubborn. Can hold most things a couple of turns)
2 soulgrinders (now with ld 9 and stubborn)

I have tried playing a soul grinder a couple of games and it is very cool and attracts a lot of missile fire and spells. It work well against low I monsters and ordinary infantry (needs to thunderstomp and is rarely wounded after saves) bit should not go in alone. Works great when used in combo charge.

It has died each game:
Took a hellcannon shot i the face and died turn 2.
Got charged by snake riders with bironas timewarp on them so extra poisoned S5 attacks with re-rolls.
A doombull flanked it and did a couple of wounds. I get the S 10 hit but only do 1 wound...