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fredi
30-07-2012, 08:55
<<Free Reform Rule>>
Fast Cavalry is allowed to reform as many time, even if it marches.

If a team of Fast Cavalry face to two teams of enemy,
So can I let the Fast Cavalry team marches to pass through the gap between two enemies team.

Many Thanks

Ginger Ian
30-07-2012, 14:46
Yes, providing there is enough space for the cav base to pass between and they don't finish their movement within 1inch of an enemy unit...

ExquisiteMonkey
31-07-2012, 01:13
Not quite. You need to have enough distance between the two units to account for 1" from each unit, plus the width of the base, due to the 1" rule.

So, for a Dark Rider unit on a std cavalry base (25mm wide), you need 3" between units to legally get through the gap (1" gap for unit + 1" wide cavalry base + 1" gap for unit)

Jind_Singh
31-07-2012, 01:55
^^^ THIS! A lot of players play this wrong, you ALWAYS must keep a 1" at all times unless charging - so you do as the Monkey says - it's your model base plus 2" room - always best to measure a tight gap BEFORE moving the cav - if the gap is big enough then simply measure distance needed to move and reform at end of move.

Lord Solar Plexus
31-07-2012, 04:53
<<Free Reform Rule>>
Fast Cavalry is allowed to reform as many time, even if it marches.


Within their movement allowance, yes.



If a team of Fast Cavalry face to two teams of enemy,
So can I let the Fast Cavalry team marches to pass through the gap between two enemies team.


You can let everyone march through the space between two enemies. The ability to free reform is no precondition, although in some cases it can be quite helpful. Other than that, what the others said: mind the gap!

T10
31-07-2012, 07:10
How many of you stop to make a "snapshot" of the fast cavalry unit's footprint as it maneuvres past difficult terrain etc., as opposed to just "teleporting" the unit to a new location within movement range.

For example: In order to move a unit of fast cavalry through a narrow gap between impassable terrain and that gap is 3" wide and 1" deep, you could simply declare: "Movin' through!" and repsoition the unit on the other side of the gap.

However, the step by step procedure would be

1. Move the the unit in front of the gap, as close as possible, in a single rank. The middle of the unit is now 2" away from the gap.
2. Reform the unit to a single file. This puts about half the models down the gap.
3. Move the unit forward 5". The middle of the unit is now 2" past the gap.
4. Reform into a single file facing away from the gap and keep moving.

Taking this step by step: If this maneuver would bring the unit within 1" of other units or impassable terrain, then the maneuver cannot be completed!

-T10

Senor
02-08-2012, 10:00
Just to be sure here... In a game I played the other day.
Is Fast Cavalry allowed to turn 180 degrees before moving and march 16"?
No other unit was nearby.

T10
02-08-2012, 11:36
Yes. This is because an on-the-spot 180 degree turn in 8th edition must be achieved through a reform, and Fast Cavalry can perform free reforms even when marching.

Notice that the maneuver for 90/180 degree turns used up to 7th edition are not part of 8th.

-T10

sorberec
02-08-2012, 19:31
How many of you stop to make a "snapshot" of the fast cavalry unit's footprint as it maneuvres past difficult terrain etc., as opposed to just "teleporting" the unit to a new location within movement range.

I think if someone were to sit down and do a study of how people move their fast cavalry they'd find that the majority of long moves would break the not more than double the movement rule thanks to units being "teleported" rather than having their movement properly measured

sorberec
02-08-2012, 19:34
^^^ THIS! A lot of players play this wrong, you ALWAYS must keep a 1" at all times unless charging

If I had a pound for every time someone broke the one inch rule in 8th edition I'd have enough money to buy a whole other army...

Lord Inquisitor
02-08-2012, 19:41
The question really is whether you measure each movement of each reform and add it to the total or just measure the displacement of the models (bending around terrain, etc). The first seems more proper and severely limits fast cav... but it essentially means measuring the movement of every single model through every reform the unit makes, which is impractical to the point of being impossible.

Typically I see it played that fast cav are good as long as each model doesn't move over its movement as if it were a unit of 1, that's good enough, assuming the unit can fit in a valid formation throughout the move. Basically treating the reforms as free moves as long as the final distance displaced isn't over twice the move.

Moss
02-08-2012, 20:12
The question really is whether you measure each movement of each reform and add it to the total or just measure the displacement of the models (bending around terrain, etc). The first seems more proper and severely limits fast cav... but it essentially means measuring the movement of every single model through every reform the unit makes, which is impractical to the point of being impossible.

You're absolutely right in that you should measure each reform. We always just measure total displacement of the farthest-moving model because it's faster. Now that it's come up though, I think next game we'll actually measure it out with each reform. I wonder if it would take as long as it seems, and I would also like to know if it would limit fast cav as much as you think it would. My guess is that the limitations will be less severe, but we shall see.

Lord Inquisitor
02-08-2012, 20:21
Well the first question is what exactly was intended. Each reform is obviously limited by 2x M. But is that meant to count against fast cav movement? After all a swift reform allows you to reform 2x M and then move again (allowing units to move 3x move was probably never the intent there, particularly with regard to buildings).

I think you'll find in practice it's impossible. Are you going to work out the distance moved for every single model in the unit, note it down with how far they move with normal movement? It isn't as simple as working out how far the furthest one moves because that model may not be the one moving the longest distance in each reform!

Measuring total displacement along the route of travel is by far the most reasonable solution but it gets a bit tricky to nail down with raw.

jindianajonz
02-08-2012, 22:04
If you have a situation described above:

EEE EEE
. 1234

It seems to me that there are two different ways you could move

. 1234
EEE EEE

or

. 2143
EEE EEE

The second way would result in the shortest move for all models. To measure this, you would have to figure out who moved the furthest- it would have to be either 1 or 4, whichever is furthest from the gap between the two enemies. You would then measure the distance from the furthest unit to the entrance of the gap, then the entrance of the gap to the exit of the gap, and finally the exit of the gap to the final location of the unit. Assuming the unit didn't shift left or right, and only moved straight ahead, then 1 and 2 would have moved the same distance, and 3 and 4 would have moved the same distance. This can be expanded out to larger units- i.e. 123456 would be reordered as 321654.

Now, if this were real life such a move would be physically impossible- it would depend on the individual models stopping and waiting for others to move out of the way before they could enter a gap, similar to a bottleneck on a freeway. But thankfully Warhammer turns don't consider things like this, and we can assume it all happens at the same time.

Moss
02-08-2012, 23:16
146984

Unit is in formation grey. Movement is 9".

A) Unit reforms to red to face an enemy (model moves 2").
B) Unit moves 4" right to get closer (model moves 4").
C) Unit reforms to blue to snake through a gap (model moves 2").
D) Unit moves 4" to move through the gap (model moves 4").
E) Unit reforms to green to face the enemy (model moves 2").

In all, the unit moves 4+4=8" ... this is what I've been doing
In all, the model moves 2+4+2+4+2=14" ... this is what I believe is correct

That's three extra measurements, which may not be unreasonable. Plus, I'm sure it gets easier as time goes on since you only need to measure that movement during reform once, ever (assuming it's 2", you can just add 2" to the model's movement with every reform). I'll see how it turns out.

Edit: Reformatted the picture. Also, it would be nice if someone told me how nice it looked.

ExquisiteMonkey
03-08-2012, 06:51
That detailed method is probably how it is supposed to be, but I can't say that I or anyone I have played against has gone to that length. I certainly wouldn't ask them to do that, and would probably be a little off put if someone asked me to do that.

That being said, assuming no tight gaps or really fancy moves are required, I measure the max distance from my most forward and rearward models the maximum distance that I am able to move, and place dice in those locations to represent the utmost distance that the unit can move without any model exceeding twice the distance. I will then play around with the formation as the situation warrants, and pull the unit further back from the two markers so that the unit will not move farther than permitted.

I will usually leave dice or markers on the corners of the unit's original position as well, just in case issues arise and the original position needs to be determined.

So far, no complaints from my opponents.

T10
03-08-2012, 14:23
[COLOR="#EE82EE"]The question really is whether you measure each movement of each reform and add it to the total or just measure the displacement of the models (bending around terrain, etc).

I agree that it is not practical to keep track of the total movement used by each individual model through multiple reforms.

No, the question is really what I asked: Do people move fast cav units step by step, thus respecting the confines of other units and impassable terrain? Seeing as how the snaking formation is a thing of the past, it seems that "teleporting" is a sort of cheating.

-T10

dms505
03-08-2012, 18:13
I always measure from my closest model and my furthest model and make sure the end movement is between them. I also make sure I measure angles as I move around things. I think that's enough to make the other person comfortable and still limiting me a bit, but not going overboard to the point of taking 20 minutes for a move.