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gorblud
01-08-2012, 09:37
Hey, I was curious and couldn't find a thread about this, there probably is one already so I'd appreciate if someone could provide a link to it! :)

Anyway, I was reading a thread somewhere about which army was the hardest to play against, and it got me thinking, which army is the hardest to use.

So which one requires the most skills to use, and why?

Would it be Wood Elves, overall weak units where manouvering and positioning is crucial?
Or could it be Vampire Counts where 25% of the army can barely kill a thing?

Of course some armies are better fit against others, and there are different list builds, but in general, which one requires most skills?

There are 15 different (official) armies out there, one should be more difficult than the other, right? :)


EDIT: Think of competetive lists!

panic_puppet
01-08-2012, 09:45
Its a tricky one, because there's a lot of variables to consider. In general, probably Wood Elves as they're so old, and their play style isn't conducive to 8th edition games. However, I've seen a competent WE player wipe the floor with the more powerful races. The fear nerf and instability vs steadfast makes both undead armies a trickier proposition than they could be, but this is mitigated by clever use of characters (vampire ones to add combat skill and raise stuff back, and TK characters to get some weapon skill on the otherwise awful skellies). There's no real 'easy to use' army as everything has weaknesses of some kind or another...the closest would probably be the right WoC build that allows you to have decent combat units with great armour and a stupid ward save.

It depends on an individual's playstyle as well as the army in question. I personally have a really hard time playing horde armies, as I just don't know how to play them correctly. Its why if you gave me a really good Skaven/Orc and Goblin list I'd probably do rubbish with it.

Lorcryst
01-08-2012, 11:20
Tricky one indeed ...

I'd say it's a coin toss between Wood Elves and a pure Goblin army ... both need a lot of finesse, tactical acument and a bit of luck to really work.

But then, in the hands of a good player, they can, and do, trash any opposition ...

So, yeah, depends on the player mostly ... I'm currently playing with Nurgle Daemons, and I struggle with them ... 2 wins in 20 games ...

SimaoSegunda
01-08-2012, 13:37
It really does depend on the person using the army. Most armies have a number of different builds that can be used by more skillful players, but there are often basic strategies which a beginner can use with each army, E.G:

Empire - A novice player can set up a gunline, and once he learns how to choose his targets and how to slow / redirect, he can start getting some wins;

WoC / OK. - Pick some hard-as-nails units and march across the table;

Etc, etc, etc. Now, as you get better, you can start to explore the subtleties in an army and mix up your approach. For instance, depending on your enemy, it is possible to build a very good defensive OnG list. My point is, most of the armies have an "easy" setting (build) that can hold its own, and as you get more experienced, you can develop that into a stronger build, but one that will usually require a greater skill level to use effectively. However, I think there is one army to which this cannot be applied: Wood Elves.

Where most armies are easy to learn but difficult to master, Wood Elves are difficult to learn, however, once you do learn to use them well, you can surprise a lot of people who see a WE army and assume an easy win is on the cards.

theunwantedbeing
01-08-2012, 13:49
A really badly written one is the most difficult to use.

Low leadership general or one who is nowhere near his troops, no bsb, low leadership troops with no panic immunity or similar, all the bad options taken in the army in the wrong places while none of the good ones taken anywhere useful, items with no synergy at all that simply serve to make your own troops more expensive, bad formations lacking ranks, etc

Nymie_the_Pooh
01-08-2012, 14:20
I'd say Wood Elves have the steepest learning curve because you have to come to grips with the tactics for that army along with general strategies (I freely admit I can never keep straight which is tactics and what is strategy so please substitute with the appropriate word where needed) that work with pretty much every other army but Wood Elves get shred to pieces if they play in such a manner. This makes it to where most other new players can start with general strategies and not have to worry about the specifics of their army when playing learning games. Wood Elves have some strengths and in the hands of a player that knows them they can do well.

NitrosOkay
01-08-2012, 14:26
Strategy is the overarching plan that takes shape before you're even on the battlefield.

Tactics is the blow by blow art of fighting battles.

Bingo the Fun Monkey
01-08-2012, 19:00
I agree with TheUnwantedBeing on poorly written lists. I'd like to take it a step further and say that armies that fail to keep the interest of the player are the most difficult to use. This is obviously highly subjective from player to player.

If I had to choose the most difficult army book, I'd probably say Tomb Kings or Wood Elves. More so Tomb Kings imho.

Skywave
01-08-2012, 21:10
As much as I hate to say it, it's probably the Tomb Kings. Out of all the new 8th edition book, it's the weakest of the bunch. Not really a bad book in itself, but all the other books released after it seems to get better, with the Ogres being the top dog for now.

Wood elves are old and ill fitted for 8th edition, but they can still use some of their strength. They can move and avoid the enemy and don't have to get into combat most of the time if they don't want to.

Tomb Kings can't do that, they are the slowest army around so the enemy will have a better chance of getting the combats he want. They'll get high casualty in combat due to poor resilience, and will get no benefit from some 8th edition boost, like BSB re-roll and Steadfast, wich then double the casualty for being unstable. Combine this with a barely-there healing capability, and your units that you want to be in combat will just melt away faster than it should.

It's not all doom-and-gloom though, it's still a useable army, but it can be hard to grasp the concept of the army because not everything work, or should be used, in the role you think it should.