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Polaria
02-08-2012, 07:54
I took a long look through WH40 armies section on the GWs pages today and noticed that the Sisters of Battle army section is now officially lacking rules. You can't order the old WDs that had the rules in them and GW hasn't put out the rules to the webpages. So basically, at the moment, it would be impossible to start a Sister of Battle army without either unauthorized copying of the rules from other source or getting couple of old WDs out of eBay or something...

Which makes you think, doesn't it?

GW has a model range which is, and has stayed, all metal while everything else has been converted to plastic and finecast. The same model range does not have a printed codex anymore. The last known "official rules" for those models were in now out-of-print White Dwarf... My bet is that we will never see a new SoB codex and the whole range will be slowly allowed to die out.

Shadow Lord
02-08-2012, 08:00
Could be...on the other hand, it could mean that they plan a big overhaul of the SoB army and they'll soon see more love...who knows for sure how GW thinks...

quantumcollider
02-08-2012, 08:03
More likely that Sisters of Battle will receive their own codex somewhere in the future, with plastic and finecast models to go with it. But until GW can do them properly, they will probably not get any attention.

Theocracity
02-08-2012, 08:14
No, they just haven't gotten around to Finecasting the line yet. It's obviously easy for them to do based on what they've released recently, so it'd be stupid to let a line of sculpts die out for no reason. When they do they'll release the WD list as one of their Digital codex releases, and use that until the get around to designing a new plastic line and codex.

Rumors from Stickmonkey have the Sisters digital codex on the books for December, so I'd expect to see them Finecasted and digitally released then. Any overhauls of the line or list will likely come significantly later.

Threeshades
02-08-2012, 08:26
I'm pretty sure the Sisters have enough of an audience to be deemed worth continuing. And I also think GW knows that that audience would grow significantly if they were to finally get a plastic range and a proper dex.

Polaria
02-08-2012, 08:37
Rumors from Stickmonkey have the Sisters digital codex on the books for December, so I'd expect to see them Finecasted and digitally released then. Any overhauls of the line or list will likely come significantly later.

I sure as hell hope that if this happens we will see a printed codex following pretty soon. I'm no fan of Apple pricing policy and the whole i-scam so untill the digital codices will be made available on other platforms I will stay well clear of them.

Hrw-Amen
02-08-2012, 08:39
Let us hope not. Whlst I have some other armies the SOB are by far my favourite. The lack of codex/models update last year really disappointed me when it had been reasonably hyped up. As a result I have been off W40K for some time and have not bought a single thing this year. I think if they dropped the range altogether then that would be me out of W40K for good. I just don't get the same inspiration with the other armies I have.

the_picto
02-08-2012, 08:48
I really think any WD rules should be put on the site as a free PDF after 6ish months. This insistence on only releasing stuff to Ipad users seems bad for business.

Desalbert
02-08-2012, 08:50
Sisters will live on. And I will be there to support them when they get the treatment they so well deserve :)

mrtn
02-08-2012, 09:03
Why do people always ask this about "the army that recently got an update that's not über powerful" rather than about the army that hasn't been updated recently? I've seen the same with beastmen, and I wouldn't be surprised to see it about tyranids as well.

If you had asked this a year ago, just before Sisters got updated I would have understood, but now, afterwards? :wtf:

A.T.
02-08-2012, 09:18
If you had asked this a year ago, just before Sisters got updated I would have understood, but now, afterwards? :wtf:Because sisters were not updated as such. They had their codex discontinued, a small subset of the units/wargear reprinted in a briefly available chapter approved article, and their entire model range withdrawn from general sale.

spud75
02-08-2012, 09:28
might be a good prospect for a digital only codex :shifty:

Beppo1234
02-08-2012, 09:38
as others have said, a digi codex is rumoured to be on the way in December, I'm assuming this is a hold over until a real update comes, which will probably include a rules buff. I feel that the buff in rules for an updated army come mostly depending on how many new kits are produced... ie. to pay off the development and production costs of a new product.

plastic or metal, I don't really care... same price in the end, and metal is more durable.

Brother Nidus
02-08-2012, 10:38
Dark Eldar say hi...

It is more likely to think that GW is waiting for the right time to completely overhaul Sisters of Battle in a Dark Eldar style reboot.

They can take their time though as everyone knows a reboot on that scale is a huge money-earner. Dark Eldar, Grey Knights, Necrons, all big reboots and all extremely effective. I think they will wait for a dip in sales to release them as a new well rounded force and regenerate interest in GW products.


Nidus

Aluinn
02-08-2012, 10:58
Because sisters were not updated as such. They had their codex discontinued, a small subset of the units/wargear reprinted in a briefly available chapter approved article, and their entire model range withdrawn from general sale.

If GW wanted to do away with the army they wouldn't have even bothered to print a WD codex, though. They really would have had no reason to care whether the rules were up to date or not. I guess you could hypothesize that they wanted to sell off the range and felt they had to release new rules in order to do even that much, but I doubt it; they probably weren't sitting on massive stocks of metal Sisters models.

I agree with all those who have said that a digital-only codex is a horrible idea, though. It's bad enough that there's a unit with rules only available in that format (the Stormtalon), because restricting availability to iPad users makes absolutely no sense from any perspective unless you're getting payed by Apple to do it, which seems unlikely--I mean, you're going to lose sales of the model whenever anyone without an iPad wants to use it and would have bought one, but isn't willing to go out and buy an iPad, then pay for your digital product, just to do so. It's especially likely to miff anyone who payed for Codex: SM or any the book for any other army which supposedly has access to it, only to be asked to pay a lot more for the model and the download, that assuming that they already even own the requisite Apple product. Furthermore, it hurts LGSs for no good reason: They can make money from codex/rulebook sales, but downloads cut them out. (Granted it's available in WD, which is both affordable for the average Joe and accessible via LGS, but they need to solve the problem of limited-time availability in order for that to really be a solution.)

And this on top of the controversial nature of Finecast means that a Finecast/digital (iPad) release is going to result in a lot of people not buying a lot of things. If they're smart, they'll make the rules available for free in a PDF on the website, and wait to do anything to the model range until they're ready to release plastics. (Unless producing Finecast molds is really cheap for them, in which case I guess it makes sense to release Finecast as a stopgap.)

I guess I could be wrong and it could be that GW products have become such luxuries in current economic conditions that only people with lots of money to burn and Apple toys coming out the bum are likely to have interest in them, but I really hope that isn't the case, and at least in my experience it is not. It would amount to saying that only upper middle class people are being considered any longer, when basic plastic model and book prices are actually not so high as to cut much less wealthy people out of GW games in and of themselves. So, even if this is the case, it seems to be going somewhere that GW shouldn't want to go, because it would shrink their market a great deal. (I know this is only one army, and probably the poorest seller at the moment too, but the policy sends some kind of message to all customers.)

nosebiter
02-08-2012, 11:26
Dark Eldar say hi...

It is more likely to think that GW is waiting for the right time to completely overhaul Sisters of Battle in a Dark Eldar style reboot.

They can take their time though as everyone knows a reboot on that scale is a huge money-earner. Dark Eldar, Grey Knights, Necrons, all big reboots and all extremely effective. I think they will wait for a dip in sales to release them as a new well rounded force and regenerate interest in GW products.


Nidus

I would hardly call grey knights a big and expensive reboot with 3 plastic kits.

And I think it is sad that sisters are left behind, they are such an evocative army, that could be interesting to play in 6tg

Treadhead_1st
02-08-2012, 11:38
I asked about the digital codexes at the Design Studio Open Day. They're only available on the iPad because the software used to create them (and they are very shiny and excellent, with full 360 views and brilliant linking between fluff passages and rules, clicking on a bestiary entry brings up a box with the rules for that phrase/option) was designed by Apple. According to Apple policy, that means that Apple technically has ownership (whether part or full I don't know) of any product created using their software, thus forcing the designers to exclusively market the product for Apple platforms.

For once don't blame Games Workshop - they could only use Apple tech to get the digital codexes to work properly, and Apple's policies are what are screwing the end-user over.

As it happens I would really hate to see a digital codex (only) release for Sisters, as I have no iPad and no desire to get one given their cost! I have faith that the Sisters are not going to be phased out - their was the company promise that no current line would be discontinued a few years ago (and we had the Witch Hunter codex), the White Dwarf update was quite a significant overhaul, what with the wargear and Act of Faith changes, as well as the addition of Cardinals and Battle Conclaves and general addition of USRs that weren't about/were different than in the time of the Witch Hunters.

Very much looking forwards to any updates though, and hopefully a new model line will do them justice, without altering the iconic look or excellent character/details the models have.

A.T.
02-08-2012, 11:48
If GW wanted to do away with the army they wouldn't have even bothered to print a WD codex, though. They really would have had no reason to care whether the rules were up to date or not.Allies, both in the original WH dex (until they were removed in the pdf) and in 6th ed. Especially when combined with the gk codex where you could field an army made up of identical models with hugely disparate rules.

As long as an army has a printed rulebook which hasn't been superseded people will continue to bring it to tournaments, use it for allies, and generally expect to be able to play it. GW would get a lot of flak for just coming out and saying "book discontinued, your models are paperweights" so the chapter approved makes sense - it kicks the book out of circulation and GW are free to update later or allow it to join the pile of other chapter approved material like enslavers, deathwatch, feral orks, and so on.




Dark Eldar say hi...Dark Eldar had plastic models and a codex.
Sisters are still using the 2nd ed pewter troops models and were the support element shipped in an "allied inquisitors for marines and guard" book.

Korraz
02-08-2012, 11:48
Oh, do blame GW for that. It was their decision to make that step and sell themselves over to Apple.
But hey, free Ipads for the management, yay?

Xerxesian
02-08-2012, 14:42
Owning nearly 5k of Sisters, I selfishly hope they continue to fully support the army. I think they are currently missing out on a huge market- women. The Sisters army seems to generally appeal to women, and if it was better supported, with a cost of collecting it more in line with other armies, I think they would draw more girl-friends and wives to the game, which equates to more $ for GW. And honestly guys, it would relieve us of wracking our brains trying to figure out a gift to get her- "Oh my! An Exorcist tank? You shouldn't have!" which means she loves that you did. Hugs, kisses, glad tidings, win for me, win for her, win for GW!

P.S. And after she paints that tank- maybe she'll paint one of your armies!

Theocracity
02-08-2012, 15:32
And this on top of the controversial nature of Finecast means that a Finecast/digital (iPad) release is going to result in a lot of people not buying a lot of things.

And that's different from now how?

battybattybats
02-08-2012, 16:35
The rise of the Girl Gamer culturally and as consumers is only going to keep increasing. GW either taps the market now or loses out to it's competitors. Worse the world of warhammer 40,000 is a very sexist one which while that fits the bleak tyranny and brutal authoritarian notions of the Empire (presumably the Emperor having guided humanity since the stone age is responsible for the patriarchy in the first place making the male-only primarchs and marines make plenty of sense) can also cost future sales dearly unless something is done.

When i started roleplaying there were hardly any girls i knew into rpgs and videogames and now i know heaps, in fact i hear 40% of video gamers are girls! Wargaming isn't immune and nor is it incapable of appealing to girls. My ex-girlfriend plays warhammer 40,000 starting playing Dark Eldar back in 3rd and 4th ed. My current girlfriend plays warhammer building a Tomb Kings army and will be attending Games Day with me this year like she did last year (where we had great fun playing Space Hulk).

So if GW is going to send the Sisters to the same dusty cupboard as Genestealer Cults they have totally lost their minds! And leaving them for ages on the back-burner is also plenty stupid.

althathir
02-08-2012, 17:23
I really think any WD rules should be put on the site as a free PDF after 6ish months. This insistence on only releasing stuff to Ipad users seems bad for business.

This is my main issue the rules should be released in a pdf form, even if its just the rules w/o fluff. Ipad white drawf only just isn't a good strategy.


The rise of the Girl Gamer culturally and as consumers is only going to keep increasing. GW either taps the market now or loses out to it's competitors. Worse the world of warhammer 40,000 is a very sexist one which while that fits the bleak tyranny and brutal authoritarian notions of the Empire (presumably the Emperor having guided humanity since the stone age is responsible for the patriarchy in the first place making the male-only primarchs and marines make plenty of sense) can also cost future sales dearly unless something is done.

When i started roleplaying there were hardly any girls i knew into rpgs and videogames and now i know heaps, in fact i hear 40% of video gamers are girls! Wargaming isn't immune and nor is it incapable of appealing to girls. My ex-girlfriend plays warhammer 40,000 starting playing Dark Eldar back in 3rd and 4th ed. My current girlfriend plays warhammer building a Tomb Kings army and will be attending Games Day with me this year like she did last year (where we had great fun playing Space Hulk).

So if GW is going to send the Sisters to the same dusty cupboard as Genestealer Cults they have totally lost their minds! And leaving them for ages on the back-burner is also plenty stupid.

Its trickier than that though, the catch 22 gw is stuck in is that they've been having trouble making plastic sisters for a long time, until they can sisters are gonna be a hard sell. They won't sell finecast cheaper for one just one fraction and until they do it won't be a mainstream army (you can drop a 100 dollars for ten troop choice sisters... 10!)

That said its always seemed like girl players that I've met tend to play eldar (both types), nids, or orks and never seemed that interested in sisters (or imperial fractions in general) granted thats just my experience, but I think girl gamers are pretty used to playing games designed for a different target audience

Gorbad Ironclaw
02-08-2012, 17:40
None of the girl games I've known have played a female army/team/gang/whatever. I just don't buy the idea that producing a group of overly curvy nun with guns is going to draw in female games that wouldn't have played anyway. It appeals much more to guys than girls.

Seville
02-08-2012, 19:40
I think that Sisters are probably kind of going the way of an "Ally Only" army. I mean, they kind of are that way now, I think. They make more sense as an auxiliary force to IG or possibly SM.

althathir
02-08-2012, 20:11
I don't think they would've gave them a WD dex if they intended for them to be "Ally Only", I think it really comes down to the models. When sisters get updated I think they will get a ton of good stuff, but they've always been one of the most expensive fractions to collect and until they get the plastics for the base troops I don't think GW is gonna rush in with them.

Rated_lexxx
02-08-2012, 20:53
I think one of the rumors is SoB will be going digital in about 3 months. Check out the digital rumors in the rumor forum

A.T.
02-08-2012, 22:16
I don't think GW is gonna rush in with them.Nobody thinks GW is rushing them. Seriously, the current line of troops was released in the 90s.

AlexHolker
03-08-2012, 00:17
Worse the world of warhammer 40,000 is a very sexist one which while that fits the bleak tyranny and brutal authoritarian notions of the Empire (presumably the Emperor having guided humanity since the stone age is responsible for the patriarchy in the first place making the male-only primarchs and marines make plenty of sense) can also cost future sales dearly unless something is done.
Frankly, I don't see the world of Warhammer 40,000 as a very sexist one. The Primarchs were engineered from the Emperor himself, and the Space Marines were engineered from the Primarchs, so it's not unreasonable to suggest that they must share certain traits with their progenitor for the treatment to take. House Escher suffers from a genetic disorder - like House Delaque's lack of hair and hypersensitivity - that happens to only affect those with the Y chromosome. The Sisters of Battle aren't so clear cut, but even there you have what was a ceremonial unit which exists as an exception to the Decree Passive because Sebastian Thor convinced the Convocation that they should, that by conforming to the letter and not the spirit of the Decree Passive gave the Convocation an out so they could pretend that's what they had in mind all along.

Making the Imperium sexist only detracts from the theme of the Imperium, which to me is an understandable regression to authoritarianism. The Imperium discriminates against psykers because they are literal portals to hell, and humanity's pre-Imperial live-and-let-live policy nearly destroyed humanity. They do not recognise the freedom of religion because the religious rituals actually work, and can be used to perform sorcery or summon daemons. And they hate aliens because the only alien races that have survived to the 41st millenium are just as aggressive as the Imperium is. Throwing discrimination on the basis of sex, race or sexual orientation in there is just grimderp for the sake of grimderp.

The bearded one
03-08-2012, 00:27
The really important issue (or rather 'problem'), is that while they got an update (irregardless of how weak/powerful/pathetic/über it was), this update was only temporarily available. Anyone wanting to start sisters of battle a month or two after that WD was released would find himself without a codex or ruleset for them. At this very moment, sisters actually don't even exist ruleswise (except for being mentioned in the allies-table in the rulebook), as you won't be able to find that WD anywhere in a GW store or on their site.

Having WD units (like the flyers) and such that you can't find the rules anymore for later on, is sucky, but after huffing and puffing over it one can still make due, even if a bit miffed about it, but a potential sisterplayer won't be able to get any rules at all, for anything.

althathir
03-08-2012, 00:52
Nobody thinks GW is rushing them. Seriously, the current line of troops was released in the 90s.

Yeah but I don't think they're getting routed either

battybattybats
03-08-2012, 02:43
Frankly, I don't see the world of Warhammer 40,000 as a very sexist one. The Primarchs were engineered from the Emperor himself, and the Space Marines were engineered from the Primarchs, so it's not unreasonable to suggest that they must share certain traits with their progenitor for the treatment to take. House Escher suffers from a genetic disorder - like House Delaque's lack of hair and hypersensitivity - that happens to only affect those with the Y chromosome. The Sisters of Battle aren't so clear cut, but even there you have what was a ceremonial unit which exists as an exception to the Decree Passive because Sebastian Thor convinced the Convocation that they should, that by conforming to the letter and not the spirit of the Decree Passive gave the Convocation an out so they could pretend that's what they had in mind all along.

Making the Imperium sexist only detracts from the theme of the Imperium, which to me is an understandable regression to authoritarianism. The Imperium discriminates against psykers because they are literal portals to hell, and humanity's pre-Imperial live-and-let-live policy nearly destroyed humanity. They do not recognise the freedom of religion because the religious rituals actually work, and can be used to perform sorcery or summon daemons. And they hate aliens because the only alien races that have survived to the 41st millenium are just as aggressive as the Imperium is. Throwing discrimination on the basis of sex, race or sexual orientation in there is just grimderp for the sake of grimderp.

Understandable? The Emperor predates the dark age of technology but allowed the loss of knowledge and the rise of superstition.. in fact going by the novels he engineered it. The Emperor is a conglomeration of beings going by RoCVol2 which merely took the form of a single man to break the risks of the warp-ressurections of the stone-age shamen that came from the rise of Slaanesh so he sure could have made female primarchs and marines if he wanted to. That house Escher needed a mutation in order to justify warrior women is definately sexist. The miniature proportions are sexist, there's a greater proportion of women in the modern militaries of the western world than you see in the imperial guard miniature line. Amongst the Eldar and dark eldar it's not 50-50 though they are better represented there which definately shows the Imperium is sexist proportionately to the Eldar.

Rogue Trader was filled with deliberate Satire, part of the cultural response to the conservative politics of 80s UK. But even back then the Sororitas were iirc there to police the marines and keep them in line! Yet again we have now a justification, an excuse, in the sisters of battle book to allow warrior women.

Yet with background of whole populations conscripted into the guard and recruited from worlds where only warriors survive there should be faaar more female figures in the lines.

Put simply, yes the Imperium is sexist. The 40k game (and necromunda) is sexist. It grew from a time where sexism in games was common and it hasn't shed its sexism the way many others have.

Voss
03-08-2012, 03:13
No, they just haven't gotten around to Finecasting the line yet. It's obviously easy for them to do based on what they've released recently, so it'd be stupid to let a line of sculpts die out for no reason. When they do they'll release the WD list as one of their Digital codex releases, and use that until the get around to designing a new plastic line and codex.

I have my doubts about basic troops being done in finecast, especially with a model line that is so out of date. While digital rules might show up at some stage, I don't think a major overhaul is going to happen until they get the dark eldar treatment. And at this stage, I suspect that isn't going to happen until after chaos marines, eldar, tau, and either one or both remaining varieties of marines with old dexes.

The basic fact is it is nearly $100 (and 5-6 blisters) just to throw together a single basic unit. Finecast won't make that equation significantly better. GW simply _can't_ sell an army with that basic limiting factor. Basic troop choices need to be half that, at most (and usually around a third). Otherwise the vast majority of customers will ignore that army in favor of the ones with nice, simple $35 boxes (or whichever your currency of choice is)

IcedAnimals
03-08-2012, 03:32
If sisters were going to be phased out (they aren't) they wouldn't have updated them for 6th. Even with the white dwarf treatment. They wouldn't have a larger area in the main rule book than most other factions including some space marine chapters (grey knights as an example). And they wouldn't be getting one of the ipad digital codices later this year. Nor would they be the faction mentioned as the main user of the new forgeworld avenger model. Sisters are in a rough spot right now in that our units cost almost as much $ as they cost points to field. And our models are old. But we have heard from multiple reliable sources that they are being worked on. We have rumor sources claiming to have seen the new models. And honestly the metal sculpts are still some of GWs best in my opinion. I need to buy a couple heavy bolter models for my sisters. I keep telling myself to wait for the plastics but I am having a hard time holding out when they are already great models and I have no idea when the plastics will arrive.

Malagor
03-08-2012, 10:52
In 5e I might have understand the idea that they might get phased out since there was hardly a mentioning of them in the rulebook along with a codex that was only available for a short time.
But they got a whole page dedicated to them in the 6e rulebook which to me shows that they aren't forgotten and still considered to be a playable army.
Maybe 6e is the edition when they will finally get a proper update both in terms of models and codex.

Lord Zarkov
03-08-2012, 11:37
Understandable? The Emperor predates the dark age of technology but allowed the loss of knowledge and the rise of superstition.. in fact going by the novels he engineered it. The Emperor is a conglomeration of beings going by RoCVol2 which merely took the form of a single man to break the risks of the warp-ressurections of the stone-age shamen that came from the rise of Slaanesh so he sure could have made female primarchs and marines if he wanted to. That house Escher needed a mutation in order to justify warrior women is definately sexist. The miniature proportions are sexist, there's a greater proportion of women in the modern militaries of the western world than you see in the imperial guard miniature line. Amongst the Eldar and dark eldar it's not 50-50 though they are better represented there which definately shows the Imperium is sexist proportionately to the Eldar.

Rogue Trader was filled with deliberate Satire, part of the cultural response to the conservative politics of 80s UK. But even back then the Sororitas were iirc there to police the marines and keep them in line! Yet again we have now a justification, an excuse, in the sisters of battle book to allow warrior women.

Yet with background of whole populations conscripted into the guard and recruited from worlds where only warriors survive there should be faaar more female figures in the lines.

Put simply, yes the Imperium is sexist. The 40k game (and necromunda) is sexist. It grew from a time where sexism in games was common and it hasn't shed its sexism the way many others have.

If you read the books there are quite a large number of female IG personnel, even if there haven't been that many models. It's just that, barring special circumstances, regiments tend to be single sex (to avoid problems while on campaign), and a majority (for example about 60% on Valhalla IIRC) are male, which is probably because males tend to be physically stronger.

The Inquisition and the Arbites also seem to be fairly equal-opportunities.

On the level of individual planets there are probably a good deal of planets that are sexist, but the Imperium as a whole is not institutionally so.

The bearded one
03-08-2012, 12:50
If you read the books there are quite a large number of female IG personnel, even if there haven't been that many models. It's just that, barring special circumstances, regiments tend to be single sex (to avoid problems while on campaign), and a majority (for example about 60% on Valhalla IIRC) are male, which is probably because males tend to be physically stronger.

The Inquisition and the Arbites also seem to be fairly equal-opportunities.

On the level of individual planets there are probably a good deal of planets that are sexist, but the Imperium as a whole is not institutionally so.

IIRC, in the Ciaphas Cain novels, he becomes commissar of a regiment that consisted of 2 half-strength regiments which were fused, these two regiments being an all-male and all-female regiment, and which naturally led to a damn big heap of problems initially.

While the model line has fewer female models (and none in the IG line?), the fluff has plenty. Also in the Space Marine game, the IG commander is female. The Imperium probably doesn't really care who it sends to the slaughter, as long as they fight.

Polaria
03-08-2012, 12:54
IIRC, in the Ciaphas Cain novels, he becomes commissar of a regiment that consisted of 2 half-strength regiments which were fused, these two regiments being an all-male and all-female regiment, and which naturally led to a damn big heap of problems initially.

While the model line has fewer female models (and none in the IG line?), the fluff has plenty. Also in the Space Marine game, the IG commander is female. The Imperium probably doesn't really care who it sends to the slaughter, as long as they fight.

Yeah, the Warhammer 40 000 world, as it stands today, is hardly any more sexist than your typical western world country. The only reasons why you might think so is because Space Marines are often the protagonists of stories and there are no female Space Marines. Other than that Imperium doesn't care about your sex any more than it cares about your life.

Starchild
03-08-2012, 21:17
@Treadhead_1st: I don't want this thread to devolve into an Apple hate rant but your point regarding their IP policy on iBooks is not accurate.

When iBooks was released, publishers were required to sign exclusivity agreements. But after an industry uproar only one week later, Apple backed down. So if GW wants to make digital Android or PC publications they are welcome to do so, with all the risks associated with those platforms.

Anyway Sisters will get Citadel lovin' eventually. Stickmonkey said the models have been done for quite a while now, so we just have to wait. :(

battybattybats
04-08-2012, 03:42
If you read the books there are quite a large number of female IG personnel, even if there haven't been that many models. It's just that, barring special circumstances, regiments tend to be single sex (to avoid problems while on campaign), and a majority (for example about 60% on Valhalla IIRC) are male, which is probably because males tend to be physically stronger.

The Inquisition and the Arbites also seem to be fairly equal-opportunities.

On the level of individual planets there are probably a good deal of planets that are sexist, but the Imperium as a whole is not institutionally so.

The novels often differ to the tabletop game and lets face it often disagree with other novels (or themselves, i'm loving priests of mars but in one paragraph a servitor was described as having a shaved head at the start of the paragraph and with it's black hair slicked back with oil at the end of it).

The modern world doesn't tend to create same-sex regiments anymore. From the Australian army to the rebels in Syria i saw on the news last night there are women fighting beside men today. Just like gay and lesbian soldiers it isn't an actual problem. If the Imperium is following such myth-based practices that modern armies now don't then that would say yes, the Imperium is sexist (and heterosexist). The only historical argument for such a segregated regiment i've ever seen would be of course the Sacred Band of Thebes an army made up entirely of gay male couples whose willingness to fight to the death where other forces would break and flee was legendary.


IIRC, in the Ciaphas Cain novels, he becomes commissar of a regiment that consisted of 2 half-strength regiments which were fused, these two regiments being an all-male and all-female regiment, and which naturally led to a damn big heap of problems initially.

While the model line has fewer female models (and none in the IG line?), the fluff has plenty. Also in the Space Marine game, the IG commander is female. The Imperium probably doesn't really care who it sends to the slaughter, as long as they fight.

So Black Library and THQ can be shown to have begun to end sexism in their representations of the Imperial Guard while GW has LESS female guardsmen models in their stores than they once had.


Yeah, the Warhammer 40 000 world, as it stands today, is hardly any more sexist than your typical western world country. The only reasons why you might think so is because Space Marines are often the protagonists of stories and there are no female Space Marines. Other than that Imperium doesn't care about your sex any more than it cares about your life.

Except that the typical western country has more women in their armed forces than GWs imperial guard line.... which has had what, three female guardsmen in the entire history of the line? One loooong unavailable and two available only in the collectors section in a boxed set specifically Colonel Schaeffer's Last Chancers a penal legion squad where they go by the names 'Warrior Woman' and 'Rocket Girl' http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1490651&prodId=prod1150013 Thats not comparable to your typical western country. And if your typical western country could make space marines now they would make female space marines as well as male ones and we know that typical western countries are still in the process of undoing sexism so if the Imperium is comparable with the western world right now it'd still be sexist and it's not. GWs representation of the Imperium is comparable with the western world of a fair few decades ago, much more sexist than the world today.

Yes Black Library and THQ's and FFG's representation is less so. There female guardsmen, female guard officers and the Sororitas are all far more prevalant (and often less sexualised in their depictions) each of which is evidence of GWs issues with sexism and of differences between GWs depictions of the Imperium compared to other licensed companies depictions.

With the Sisters mail-order only currently if one was to add up what proportion of GW stock is female even counting all Tyranids as female GW will be doing pretty poorly. What imperial figures in the stores right now are female?

Treadhead_1st
04-08-2012, 03:45
@Treadhead_1st: I don't want this thread to devolve into an Apple hate rant but your point regarding their IP policy on iBooks is not accurate.

When iBooks was released, publishers were required to sign exclusivity agreements. But after an industry uproar only one week later, Apple backed down. So if GW wants to make digital Android or PC publications they are welcome to do so, with all the risks associated with those platforms.

Huh, that's the excuse the dude gave me when showing it all off. Though a friend of mine said it might be because the software architecture wouldn't be supported on any of the other tablet systems. Regardless, I forgot to mention, the iPad things are a bit of a test - they're hoping to push out onto other systems once they can make it work (whether legally or technically) - though I get the feeling he meant it would still be tablet-based because most of the features require touch-screen manipulation so those of us without such new tech might be =][= censored =][= out of luck.


Anyway Sisters will get Citadel lovin' eventually. Stickmonkey said the models have been done for quite a while now, so we just have to wait. :(

Non-metal models would be amazing, but I quite like the metal casts - particularly of the Repentia, and I hope they wouldn't be changed too much (or, god forbid, suffer some sort of chin-mutation like the Space Marine Scouts did when transitioning from metal to plastic). I'm surprised that the range is done, the last I heard (which was admittedly a while ago) was that they had ideas for veils that were proving to be a bit of a pain to make work; and also they were having problems making a multi-positional plastic kit work with the robes. I would speculate that they might have the master-models made and ready but they're unable to put them into production yet for technical reasons. That Vampire Counts Barrow Wight (or whatever the old Standard Bearers were called) was a particularly well-heralded model because it was a plastic model with well defined layers to it's robes/chainmail/cloak with some very mild under-cuts (I believed that is the term) that actually survived the casting process. Normally, undercuts would prevent a model from being released from the mould properly and foul up the whole production line or break the machines, and the layers wouldn't have come out very well. Looking at those achievements, I am hoping that Sisters are closer to completion that we think, though of course we may have to wait for further tech advances yet.

Having seen what happened to the Dark Eldar range, I am hoping for something along the same lines in terms of updates to both models and rules, though the Sisters aren't working from such an ugly starting-point!