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Lord Logsdon
07-08-2012, 22:55
So I'm just getting back into the hobby, but I'm not a dummy per se and I've done my research before hand. I chose Bretonnians because I just plain like the fluff/models/aesthetics.

Anyways we have a new GW store near me and I went in to buy the army book even though I have it on PDF. I then bought some Knights of the Realm.

When I went to pay me and the staffer started some light banter about the escalation league that was starting and that I was going to enter as some motivation to paint and also to network with some other wargamers, etc. The following is the dialogue.

"Make sure you bring your rulebook...do you have a rulebook yet?"
"Not yet, but I'm in the process of getting one."
"Process?" -Inquisitive look of confusion-
"Well...yea...off Ebay."
"Oh man that hurts...Ebay doesn't pay my bills and it doesn't help local stores either..."
-Awkward silence as I hand over my credit card-

He didn't say it in a mean way, but it was one of those passive-aggressive tones you know? Where he's faking a joke but the real meaning is seeping through. Is this kosher? I mean I know he has a job to do and everything, and yea his store is evaluated only on product sold but I just dropped over sixty bucks and half of it was for something I had for free already (which I told him on my previous visit and he covered his ears and said "Ahhh I didn't hear that"). I'm not trying to be the bad guy here, but maybe I am?

Anyways, now I'm worried about bringing in some non GW minis to play with in the store because I'll get similar treatment. It's not my fault that a Dark Sword Cersei makes for a way cooler and way hotter damsel than the GW mini that has 15 pounds of hair.

Am I in the wrong here?

pointyteeth
07-08-2012, 23:08
Nothing wrong with going through ebay. I do the same myself all the time. I'd have asked him if he'd rather I'd bought everything on eBay to save the guilt trip.

Also, GW stores usually don't allow non-GW minis to be used in the store. Best to ask before you show up with it.

TheLionReturns
08-08-2012, 00:02
No you are doing nothing wrong. There is nothing illegal or indeed immoral about buying off ebay nor is there any moral or legal requirement to buy from your local GW store. It is up to GW to win your custom. Second hand markets can be difficult to compete with but they have their drawbacks. There is the time and effort needed to find the deal as well as the risk of dealing with someone unknown for a product unseen. GW may need to lower its prices to win your custom, or perhaps offer something ebay doesn’t, say a discount on a battalion box with your rulebook purchase, or perhaps a free digital copy that can be updated when faq’s are released. Whatever the case, it is up to GW to find the solution if they are losing a lot of sales this way.

To be honest I think the store manager was a touch out of line in what he said. Trying to guilt trip you into buying is poor form. That said I am sure it was an off the cuff remark born out of frustration at a lot of lost sales in this way combined with pressure from higher ups to meet sales targets. He probably regretted it after saying it but GW store managers are human too.

Regarding the non-GW models I think a lot of GW stores have a policy of only allowing GW products to be used in store. You may have a problem using your alternative damsel but this would have nothing to do with the previous incident. It is a regrettable policy in my opinion but one GW is perfectly entitled to pursue just as you are entitled to look for a better deal elsewhere should GW’s not pass muster.

SimaoSegunda
08-08-2012, 00:10
Actually, I tend to think yes, you were/are in the wrong.

Buying off Ebay is perfectly legitimate, and nobody can really have a problem with that. Everybody does it at some time or another - Although when I do, it tends to be for old models or unusual conversions.

PDFs of army books are a whole different kettle of fish. Getting a free PDF of an army book is substantively the same as stealing one. And actually, I know a lot of places that wouldn't let you play if you didn't have a physical army book with you. No printouts allowed!

As for the non-GW minis, they are entirely within their rights to not let you use one. However! If you do a small conversion and use some GW pieces for said conversion, then you should still be allowed to use the model.

Ultimately, everybody is free to enjoy the hobby however they like, BUT, if GW is providing the physical space and tables / scenery to play your games, then you should abide by their rules, I.E. bringing army books with you, and using GW models (or conversions) only. If you don't like those restrictions, then the alternative is to set up your own gaming group.

Lord Dan
08-08-2012, 00:16
You're doing nothing wrong.

That said, don't be surprised if the people running the store you're playing at are hurt by the fact that you aren't buying exclusively from them.

I had the pleasure of running a B&M store for several years, during which time we had customers come in with whole armies that they recently purchased off of eBay. One guy even brought in 3 unopened Tyranid battleforces that he got off of some online reseller and assembled them in the back of the store. As a retailer, the only thing that hurts your bottom line more than people who don't buy anything are people who frequent the store and don't buy anything. For this reason I make it a policy to pick up something from my LGS whenever I go every other week (even if it's only $5) so that I'm not just mooching space.

In summation it's best to find a way to support the store that provides a place for you to play and manage your finances in the best way possible to allow for you to continue to play your games. It sounds like you're already doing this, so don't worry about it.

woodster17
08-08-2012, 00:19
Games Workshop staff- like most retail employees on high street shops- don't get paid on commission. They get paid per hour. So guilt tripping you was slightly misleading and probably a little bit annoying; of course they want to sell their stuff and do their job well but unless the staff have been brainwashed, all realise that we live in austere times and the prices continue to rise a an exponential rate in GW stores. Don't feel guilty at all.

It's the only thing that annoys me about GW staffers, I go in often to ask about painting advice as well as to discuss this and that. The staff know who I am and what armies I play and yet whenever a new WD is released or an army re-done they try the hard sale on me. I'm a student, how much money do they think I have? I spend enough in GW and love the service, have got many great painting tips and tactics discussions. I appreciate they get new gamers that they can sell the products to and push things but most of us who go in are experienced or on the way to experienced gamers who have armies being built and know what we want. So having previously discussed my VC, OK AND Wood Elves models over the past couple of months on a few occasions it bugs me to be told that it would be a really good idea to start daemons and buy the new chariot models without me asking about them. Sometimes customer service just becomes interference!

mostlyharmless
08-08-2012, 00:36
Most of the staff at my GW in Seattle are nice enough folk. They know I'll purchase stuff in my own time and that I have tons of stuff in the works, so it's no good trying to sell me on new stuff when I'm still working on my old stuff. That said, there is one staffer who tries to sell me stuff all the time. I know he's just doing his job, but I don't know if he knows that I like to speculate and that I plan armies well in advance to actually working on them. That space wolf army I've got in the back of my mind is 1-2 years down the line. It's just one of those things.

I think that this manager you've got here was a tad out of line. The manager at my GW doesn't seem to mind when I walk in with a bunch of stuff I bought elsewhere because he knows how much I've purchased in his store. The stuff I get from outside sources is a drop in the bucket compared to what I buy in store.

AngelofSorrow
08-08-2012, 01:34
Just don't advertise that you get stuff second hand.
GW employees don't have commission per se but the amount their store earns can effect their pay. If you're getting it second hand just don't say anything.
It's not wrong to buy second hand mind you. My Soul grinder just arrived from eBay. (got 50% off) but I didn't say anything to the store operator. Who is a nice guy. Just be more sensitive. That's how I roll.


Ready for eternal war!

cornixt
08-08-2012, 03:10
My local GW just shut down due to lack of sales, so maybe they are all getting it in the neck right now (despite some pretty awesome profits this year which gave all the staff a bonus of a few hundred extra bucks). They generally don't care too much when I walked in with stuff that is nearly 20 years old since I do still buy new stuff too every now and then (not that I go in all that often these days)

-Totenkopf-
08-08-2012, 03:48
the best you can do is take control and set the precedent for your sales there.. Let them know, and be vocal about the fact that they exist for occasional gaming and the rare model or box set that you just "have" to have right away and can't wait for online.. Fact is, a lot of sites sell GW for around 30% off and its just plain old common sense to order for the best price.. local stores be damned..

When they are cheeky or passive aggressive, make sure they feel silly for expecting you to pay more than you need to... That is just the nature of the modern economy and informed consumers. It affects every industry..

As a business owner, I can feel there pain. I am constantly being "shopped" online.. It's my job to convince people why they need to spend a little more on me.. there are many good reasons for it and my livelyhood depends on my ability to show them. Same goes for GW. Among other things, They offer a place to play and and get into the hobby and they have models in your hand at the moment.. Never let them guilt you into anything though.. Spend your dollars wisely

Metacarpi
08-08-2012, 07:56
You're doing nothing wrong.

That said, don't be surprised if the people running the store you're playing at are hurt by the fact that you aren't buying exclusively from them.

*snip*

I make it a policy to pick up something from my LGS whenever I go every other week (even if it's only $5) so that I'm not just mooching space.

In summation it's best to find a way to support the store that provides a place for you to play and manage your finances in the best way possible to allow for you to continue to play your games. It sounds like you're already doing this, so don't worry about it.

Well said.

I tend to frequent my local GW for items that are around £20 or less. Yeah, I can get them at 30% under RRP, but factoring in the P&P, and the time it takes for the items to arrive, I don't find that it's really worth it unless I'm spending a decent chunk of cash (case in point, buying a new Daemons battallion online allowed me to get an extra box of Bloodletters "free" compared to the store price of the battallion). My local GW know this (they talk to me a lot about what I'm doing, so surely they know I'm buying elsewhere), but they don't mind because I'm regularly popping in to get bits and bobs, and don't mooch around hogging up all the space.

Scammel
08-08-2012, 08:05
I'll echo what others have said and say that you're not in the wrong, but sometimes discretion is the better part of valor when it comes to juggling your own money and supporting a store. Whilst I'll make the odd, small/medium purchase from a GW to let them know I care and that I appreciate the tables/events they sometimes provide, I'll buy the big stuff off online retailers and if a GW employee asks it was actually from the GW webstore.

shelfunit.
08-08-2012, 08:55
If you regularly (at least once a week) game there, then I would (personally) buy at least some of the models in store - certainly the FC ones, although that would be less to show "support" and more to make sure I didn't a poor cast. Basically, never feel "obligated" to buy from a GW shop (or any other shop), do so because you actually want to.

spikedog
08-08-2012, 09:24
You are not doing anything wrong but personally when I am playing in a store I make sure that if I am buying anything I get it from that store.

Think of it this way, GW don't charge you to play in their store, they also don't charge you to use their paints, get advice or to take part in their events. If you want the store to stay open then the least you can do is pay the extra few quid and buy your stuff from them. If you don't play at a GW store like me, then buy from an indie retailer. You will get discounted products, support a local shop and still give GW some cash to continue making the games that we all love. In the end buying second hand will only result in the death of more companies.

It is exactly the same as the second hand video games market, they are doing everything they can to stop people buying second-hand because it helps no one but the sellers. The games companies see no money from that sale and in fact it takes away another sale from the game company. If you want to support a company then you should put your money where your mouth is.

Scammel
08-08-2012, 10:37
They have to offer advice/painting tips/tables out the back or front for you to play on otherwise the entire hobby would crumble.

Regardless, it's a service they do for free and takes up quite a bit of their time and effort. If you're making use of them, it might be nice once in a while to make the odd small purchase and keep quiet about buying from elsewhere.

Ponge
08-08-2012, 11:14
I can understand why a store owner isn't happy when you blatantly say you are going to buy things off ebay.
I understand why you do buy them off ebay and don't think theres anything wrong with it, but it doesn't mean the store owner should be happy about it.

theunwantedbeing
08-08-2012, 11:28
Am I in the wrong here?

Yes, sorry to say this but yes, you are.

Firstly, there was zero need to say you were buying the rulebook from a non-GW source.

Secondly, you can't expect a model company to allow you to use models they don't sell in their store.

Lord Logsdon
08-08-2012, 12:35
Thanks for everyone's comments. I agree with the sentiment that having the PDF army book was wrong. You will note the past tense usage in the previous statement as an indicator that I own the hard copy version currently as was stated in the original post.

I do want to make one clarification. I'm not trying to shove this Ebay thing in the store's face. I didn't go in and start bragging about deals. I went in to make a purchase...was asked if I had a rulebook, and replied that I didn't but was going to get one soon. I was asked for clarification of my response and I gave it. I think some readers missed that in the OP and are assuming that I am blatantly and proactively flaunting my purchasing habits to the store.

I also definitely can see where they are coming from regarding non-GW minis. I never plan to have a whole regiment of them, they just make for interested single pieces and the such.

I guess overall I just wanted to feel like the store manager could acknowledge that: 1) I'm going to be a customer and I'm trying to proactively be involved in both my purchases and through store events. 2) I'm not always going to buy through the store but that's okay.

Lord Dan
08-08-2012, 16:41
I missed the part about the PDF rulebook, though you've remedied that so no worries.

The bearded one
08-08-2012, 17:07
non-GW mini's also depends a bit on the manager. The previous one of my local GW didn't mind if there were a few tucked in a unit or whatever, just as long as it wasn't a big large centerpiece model, or an entire unit, which really flaunts to other customers to ask its owner "where did you get that mini?"

stonethecrow01
08-08-2012, 22:17
Don't feel bad. I find GW staff very annoying. Suck the fun out of the game by not allowing a few non-GW models, always yell at the top of their lungs at you, always try and give you the hard sell even if you have straight up said you don't want whatever it is. Sure they are allowed to do all that in their store but its still super annoying and I would't feel bad about getting stuff second hand for a minute (let's not even mention how much more expensive it is to get GW stuff at their store compared to others ... even new).

When I was 11 (many years ago now - 2nd edition 40k even) I had an Orc army I brought along to my local GW for a games night. They said I couldn't play because the recommended age of the game was 12 years +. So my brother used my army and I watched when he asked what the weapon skill of a 'Painboy' was and I told him it was 4. They banned me for ten minutes (sent me out of the store) "helping him in a competitive game" ... it was just telling him the rules for an army he hadn't played.

nlive
08-08-2012, 22:47
Well my local store has down graded in size and staff, so you would think that good customer service was key for survival.

Turns out that they object to you ordering through the gw website to be delivered at store. I did this with 6th Ed rulebook and psychic deck. I went along the morning of the release to pick it you was rightful informed it was pre orders only. When I produced my print out and said I had ordered it online his response was "oh you are one of those" and grumpily got my order.

I still go in to pick up paints and the occasional odd bit, but I generally do not rate the service.

--When in danger or in doubt, run in circles scream and shout.

Lord Dan
08-08-2012, 23:24
It's because they don't get a percentage of those sales.

woodster17
08-08-2012, 23:37
Don't feel bad. I find GW staff very annoying. Suck the fun out of the game by not allowing a few non-GW models, always yell at the top of their lungs at you, always try and give you the hard sell even if you have straight up said you don't want whatever it is. Sure they are allowed to do all that in their store but its still super annoying and I would't feel bad about getting stuff second hand for a minute (let's not even mention how much more expensive it is to get GW stuff at their store compared to others ... even new).

When I was 11 (many years ago now - 2nd edition 40k even) I had an Orc army I brought along to my local GW for a games night. They said I couldn't play because the recommended age of the game was 12 years +. So my brother used my army and I watched when he asked what the weapon skill of a 'Painboy' was and I told him it was 4. They banned me for ten minutes (sent me out of the store) "helping him in a competitive game" ... it was just telling him the rules for an army he hadn't played.

You got yelled at and given a timeout? That sounds a bit excessive! Never seen a GW staffer act in that manner, even when younger children act a bit rude and thoughtless as kids are wont to do now and again.

Jind_Singh
09-08-2012, 00:34
Wow - always blows me away what goes on in the World! We had (at our peak) four stores (Surrey, Burnaby, Richmond, North Vancouver) and no matter what store you walked into you'd never see that kind of crap!

Yes staff would always point out new releases....but why not!
Yes as you were going to purchase stuff they would ask if you needed primer, paints, other hobby supplies
Yes they would want to sell stuff - but that's part of their job!

I liked the store so much I became a staffer for about 3-4 months - and loved it.

Too bad you folks not in BC, Canada! (well truth be told we're down to one store now but it's the best store and I've seen a lot of stores across Canada, the States, and UK bar the Warhammer World, which of course is Warhammer World!)

HurrDurr
09-08-2012, 01:38
Don't let anyone here fool you, he was completely out of line. What he did might not have been so bad, but the fact that you don't accidentally disrespect a customer makes that very offensive. The fact that you walked into that store alone is enough to demand respect if you ask me, you kept it civil and he got personal. There is this weird sense of "GW is better than you and doesn't need your business" attitude I kind of pick up on every now and then(not pointing fingers in this thread), like the people spending over 1000 usd on armies should be thankful they have the privilege of shopping there. It's kind of ironic when you read about some of the inconsistencies with their products and customer service.

If you don't want to spend money in that store, they failed to make you want to spend there and not somewhere else. So unless GW is strictly going out of business and desperately needs to charge 30%-50% more than other places while treating you badly, you have no reason to sympathize. If you think the guy was having a bad day then sure give it another chance, but make no mistake you're doing whoever it is a favor unless you're in there everyday using 30-50% of that cost in space.

I'll call it good customer service when I paid $17 for each treekin and see an updated points cost, until then they are blessed by our presence.

Every time someone complains about a unit getting nerfed and others getting buffed for sales, number one response(here) is "they're a business first and a blah blah second, how naive could you be." Then they follow the rules like every other business does, if they starve it's their fault and I'll laugh while the company caves in on itself when they had plenty of opportunity to change. So yeah, come at me.

The bearded one
09-08-2012, 02:37
Was that post necessary, the last bit in particular?



I dont really think he "got personal", or was like a GW inquisitor brandishing his delusional GWgiven rights to investigate your personal life. The op said 'im in the process of getting one', the staffer was confused by what 'process' indicated, and the op said he was getting one from Ebay. Simple as that. It's not like he was pointedly asking questions in order to uncover hobbyheresy..

I dont think either of you was really 'in the wrong'. Getting stuff 2nd hand isn't really what a retailer (either GW or independant) likes to hear from his customers, but it's not wrong either. You just have to take the comment with a shrug and an "I suppose". See, if you were getting all your stuff from ebay and then coming to the store to use their tables and stuff, that's definately very annoying for the store. On the flipside getting every single thing from the store gets quite expensive, especially if you want a small rulebook and have to buy an entire starterset for it. Getting stuff at the store, and occasionally something through ebay or friends or whatever is fine. If you like to use the store's facilities it's nice of you to support that store by occasionally buying things there, just dont go to the extreme of getting everything elsewhere and leeching off the store for their tables. In particular note that this is a new store, which probably wants to get a bit of a regular community that shops and games there, and prefers if they do indeed buy some of their stuff there, not 2nd hand. It's just a little remark though. A bit snide? Maybe, but maybe also a friendly reminder if you're going to be playing there and joining the escalationleague in the store and all, it'd be appreciated if you bought stuff in the store too.


it was just a little remark, don't give it a further thought. You'll only be bothering yourself with that.

HurrDurr
09-08-2012, 02:58
The very last part was just my sense of humor but there's truth to it.

I think saying he was "confused" is playing dumb, it's not like he was confused because he thought the OP was waiting for Santa and just had to ask to be sure. So that to me makes it personal, but like I said he went far out of his way to do a minute thing. I fully agree, if you go into a business and use any of it's services then support is warranted, in some cases going in and spending nothing can also be productive for the business(though you should be grateful, or at least acknowledge it).

To answer your question, it wasn't really necessary but I still think it's funny.(and true)

Ratbeast
09-08-2012, 04:28
Best GW advive ive heard

GW dude, you should buy it, finecast rocks

Visitor, Er not a big fan of finecast, too many problems

GW dude, If you buy it, i can even sell you liquad green stuff to fix it

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Grey Seer Kwokka
09-08-2012, 05:29
Don't let anyone here fool you, he was completely out of line. What he did might not have been so bad, but the fact that you don't accidentally disrespect a customer makes that very offensive. The fact that you walked into that store alone is enough to demand respect if you ask me, you kept it civil and he got personal. There is this weird sense of "GW is better than you and doesn't need your business" attitude I kind of pick up on every now and then(not pointing fingers in this thread), like the people spending over 1000 usd on armies should be thankful they have the privilege of shopping there. It's kind of ironic when you read about some of the inconsistencies with their products and customer service.

If you don't want to spend money in that store, they failed to make you want to spend there and not somewhere else. So unless GW is strictly going out of business and desperately needs to charge 30%-50% more than other places while treating you badly, you have no reason to sympathize. If you think the guy was having a bad day then sure give it another chance, but make no mistake you're doing whoever it is a favor unless you're in there everyday using 30-50% of that cost in space.

I'll call it good customer service when I paid $17 for each treekin and see an updated points cost, until then they are blessed by our presence.

Every time someone complains about a unit getting nerfed and others getting buffed for sales, number one response(here) is "they're a business first and a blah blah second, how naive could you be." Then they follow the rules like every other business does, if they starve it's their fault and I'll laugh while the company caves in on itself when they had plenty of opportunity to change. So yeah, come at me.


The very last part was just my sense of humor but there's truth to it.

I think saying he was "confused" is playing dumb, it's not like he was confused because he thought the OP was waiting for Santa and just had to ask to be sure. So that to me makes it personal, but like I said he went far out of his way to do a minute thing. I fully agree, if you go into a business and use any of it's services then support is warranted, in some cases going in and spending nothing can also be productive for the business(though you should be grateful, or at least acknowledge it).

To answer your question, it wasn't really necessary but I still think it's funny.(and true)

I think all you're doing is taking the arrogance that you're objecting to from the employee and reversing the roles.

Furthermore, this shouldn't be an issue stating "GW did x-heinous act" and more "GW's employee did x-heinous act". Sometimes it's not the company, but the people you deal with that makes all the difference; I've dealt with organisations that I've otherwise detested, yet ended up with a positive experience from lovely, helpful people that just happened to be employed there. There's no need to direct all your hatred against the brand for an individual's actions.

Technically speaking, there was nothing wrong with the store rep's comments; he's totally correct in his assertion. However, the tone may have been an issue here, clashing with the OP's personal morals or beliefs on the subject matter. With that said, there's nothing stopping the OP from responding how he feels fit to to the rep's comments if he feels uncomfortable. Personally, I've worked in retail sales for nearly 5 years; if a rep made such a comment to me, I would simply reply to him "What's done is done. Maybe next time?" No need to get pissy about it, simply respond in kind (or kinder).

If you don't know how to handle objections from a salesperson, maybe you need to learn. Handling objections from the customer is part of a salesperson's job, after all!

Ultimately, the rep's got a job to do and the right to do it (the OP did walk into the store, it's not like it was a cold call) and the OP as a customer has a right to spend his dollars where he wishes. Stop carrying on like you're being headhunted for a religious cult.

Luigi
09-08-2012, 06:55
Don't feel bad. I find GW staff very annoying. Suck the fun out of the game by not allowing a few non-GW models, always yell at the top of their lungs at you, always try and give you the hard sell even if you have straight up said you don't want whatever it is. Sure they are allowed to do all that in their store but its still super annoying and I would't feel bad about getting stuff second hand for a minute (let's not even mention how much more expensive it is to get GW stuff at their store compared to others ... even new).

When I was 11 (many years ago now - 2nd edition 40k even) I had an Orc army I brought along to my local GW for a games night. They said I couldn't play because the recommended age of the game was 12 years +. So my brother used my army and I watched when he asked what the weapon skill of a 'Painboy' was and I told him it was 4. They banned me for ten minutes (sent me out of the store) "helping him in a competitive game" ... it was just telling him the rules for an army he hadn't played.
:eek:
Wow! just Wow

One Man Assault
09-08-2012, 07:06
I think this relates to the much discussed issue of staff pushing their products (I know they have to, being GW policy). I don't mind them mentioning some products at the check out but if I give an ambiguous answer they should just give up the questioning rather than pressuring further. So I wish the staffer stopped when the OP said 'I'm in the process of getting one'.

I often feel they make it worse for themselves. Buying some paint and the staffer wanted to know what I was painting, I guess intending to then suggest products. I said all sorts of stuff so the questioning continues. World war one dreadnoughts I (truthfully) respond and the conversation sours. The staffer is trained to push products but are they trained to respond if someone is more interested in historicals? Secondly, buying some of the new savage orcs. The guy is pressuring me on the 8th ed Army book, that I give an ambiguous response and he picks one up, opens it and shoves it in my face. So I'm flicking through it wondering what to do. The answer I give eventually is that I still have my 4th ed book (which is true). However, the real answer is that the savage orcs are for Warhammer Quest. There's a reasonable chance the staffer have never heard of Warhammer Quest (unless it was part of his training)? The game must be about 18 years old and was last in white dwarf I guess 16 years ago. Are staffers trained to respond about out of date GW products? Anyway, I don't mind them mentioning other products but wish they would drop it as soon as the ambiguous answers come out.

AmaroK
09-08-2012, 07:19
Don't let anyone here fool you, he was completely out of line. What he did might not have been so bad, but the fact that you don't accidentally disrespect a customer makes that very offensive. The fact that you walked into that store alone is enough to demand respect if you ask me, you kept it civil and he got personal. There is this weird sense of "GW is better than you and doesn't need your business" attitude I kind of pick up on every now and then(not pointing fingers in this thread), like the people spending over 1000 usd on armies should be thankful they have the privilege of shopping there. It's kind of ironic when you read about some of the inconsistencies with their products and customer service.

If you don't want to spend money in that store, they failed to make you want to spend there and not somewhere else. So unless GW is strictly going out of business and desperately needs to charge 30%-50% more than other places while treating you badly, you have no reason to sympathize. If you think the guy was having a bad day then sure give it another chance, but make no mistake you're doing whoever it is a favor unless you're in there everyday using 30-50% of that cost in space.

I'll call it good customer service when I paid $17 for each treekin and see an updated points cost, until then they are blessed by our presence.

Every time someone complains about a unit getting nerfed and others getting buffed for sales, number one response(here) is "they're a business first and a blah blah second, how naive could you be." Then they follow the rules like every other business does, if they starve it's their fault and I'll laugh while the company caves in on itself when they had plenty of opportunity to change. So yeah, come at me.

If you go to a restaurant and you would say to the waiter "sorry, but I´ll have the dessert in another restaurant" or "I will eat here but I have brought my own food", everybody would say that is completely out of line, and nobody would expect a warm treatment from that waiter. But if it is about miniatures, then suddenly it seems it is ok you can say you buy elsewhere or bring alternative miniatures to a GW store, because evil GW blah blah, red shirts this or that...

I can see the staff was a bit aggressive with his comment, but he was saying out loud what every staffer would think in that kind of situation, specially if he´s the store´s owner. On the other hand, they can´t expect every customer buy everything from them. As many people have said here, if you go to the store often, play there and you enjoy the gaming community, you should support it, and that involves buying there (at least from time to time). And avoiding certain subjects is much better: if you use ebay, buy elsewhere etc, just don´t mention it in.

Daniel36
09-08-2012, 07:30
Furthermore, this shouldn't be an issue stating "GW did x-heinous act" and more "GW's employee did x-heinous act". Sometimes it's not the company, but the people you deal with that makes all the difference.

The only problem with that is, the employees are actively being trained by GW corporate to be as annoying as possible, and that is not just an urban myth, it's the cold hard truth. It's only because it is now the only store in the immediate area that I go to a GW. Otherwise, I would go to any other FLGS... and the F in that acronym is there for a reason too, you know.

You can't really blame it on the employee. It really is company policy, and as we all know (and discuss to absolute death here on Warseer), GW's company policy is dodgy at best.

Sh4d0w
09-08-2012, 07:35
You got yelled at and given a timeout? That sounds a bit excessive! Never seen a GW staffer act in that manner, even when younger children act a bit rude and thoughtless as kids are wont to do now and again.

Really? At an instore tournament one time a guy got thrown out for sharing his small blast template with another player, it was deemed as helping him. There's also the annoying rules of models with broken weapons are not allowed...so annoying

blackcherry
09-08-2012, 08:08
I think working in retail may 'colour' your answer a bit in this regard. The customer side of me is screaming that he shouldn't have even passive aggressively joked if he wasn't sure about the customers temperament, whilst the retailer side of me is saying he was probably stressed, under pressure and overworked, under pressure to sell stuff and being told its soley his fault for the store failing (retail entities LOVE to pull that on its employees). Someone walks in and says "Hi, I want to buy an army book and these models, the army book to replace the illegal copy I have currently. Oh and I'm gonna go buy stuff off ebay instead of your store" (I'm not saying that was the tone of the OP or what he said, but how I would translate it in my head were I the retailer). Now that would urk me just a tiny bit and if I was having a bad day, the mask may slip just for a second.

As for people who don't like hard sell, don't go into a small retail store ever then. Its the standard staff are trained and expected to do at every purchase, lest one person is a mystery shopper and they fail on the companies standards, which is to sell you as much as they can. I've had emails through from some head offices saying people weren't pressuring of influencing people enough to sell and then offerered tips on how to subtly guilt trip customers. Staff hate it as much as you, but its their job.

One Man Assault
09-08-2012, 08:18
As for people who don't like hard sell, don't go into a small retail store ever then. Its the standard staff are trained and expected to do at every purchase That's the thing, I don't any more. This is fine usually, sometimes I feel like picking up some models to work on that evening but there's no huge issue in waiting for something through the post. But wishing to go in for a single pot of paint because you are running low and to put of with that, many times I bail than go in. It's GW policy and it is driving many people away.

HurrDurr
09-08-2012, 08:36
That's the thing, I don't any more. This is fine usually, sometimes I feel like picking up some models to work on that evening but there's no huge issue in waiting for something through the post. But wishing to go in for a single pot of paint because you are running low and to put of with that, many times I bail than go in. It's GW policy and it is driving many people away.

+1 And people actually think that the way you now avoid the store is the desired outcome. Reminds me of one of those cheesy posters my dad keeps hung up in his place. Something like "the silent killer, the silent customer" one of those cheesy names. Anyways it just elaborates about the kind of person that is out there, that goes into a restaurant, sits patiently if the food takes forever, doesn't complain when drinks are late or something they ordered isn't prepared correctly. They just don't come back, and neither do their friends. One thing GW/ish stores and restaurants have in common is they depend on repeat customers. You obviously fit this description the poster tried to describe, now knowing this how can anyone defend the sales badgering. If someone wants to say that they get pushed into more sales than pushed out of them I can't argue but I doubt it would be an honest answer.

Abaraxas
09-08-2012, 12:12
My local GW (Hornsby, Aus) closed down a few weeks ago, I felt really bad.

Its not my fault GW dont make the minis I like anymore or turned the ones I do into finecast (which I will not pay the $ they ask for) a while back one of the guys that worked there said (jokingly/theoretically) that I was not into the hobby and a "heretic" because I dont/didnt play the current rules and most of my collection is from the 80s and 90s (40k) I wasnt offended though-as much as I despise the company's pricing etc I love the IP and I feel for the employees...I work for a chain and have no control over the prices they charge, when a customer attacks me over the price it sucks and I always tell them where they can go to locally that may give them a better deal...thankfully there is no inquisition at my place of work and I dont face reprecussions for saying that.


The guys at the Hornsby store gave me space and knew that if I entered the store I was there to buy something Id already planned to buy, and besides the first few encounters they knew I knew what I wanted to buy.

woodster17
09-08-2012, 12:35
Really? At an instore tournament one time a guy got thrown out for sharing his small blast template with another player, it was deemed as helping him. There's also the annoying rules of models with broken weapons are not allowed...so annoying

That's not what I was referring too- it sounded like the GW staffer in that incident felt it was acceptable to boss a younger person around and treat him like he was at school, which is unacceptable. Whatever the rules on helping people out about tiny rules differences is fine- a quiet word wouldn't have been amiss in that situation as opposed to acting like a tyrant. In your example that's OTT too however, was no 'please don't do that' given before chucking someone out? It's not like they were being abusive and trashing the store.

DaemonReign
09-08-2012, 13:16
Not to derail things and I haven't read the whole thread so maybe this happened to someone else, but still;

I am one of those people for whom GW should have a bonus program. Not only do I tend to buy directly from them, but I also buy quite a lot.
What happened though as I wad ordering "To My Local Store" was that they started nagging at me at the store that I should order from the store - because appearantly if I ordered from home the local shop did not get 'credited' for this, but instead all the glory went to the UK webteam (despite me having stuff delivered to my local store).

And it's more than just a joke 'cause they keep bringing it up every time I come by to pick something up. Actually expecting me to make two 20km trips to first place an order (at the store) and the return to pick the stuff up. It's not like I'm getting the stuff cheaper. No return-gestures at all, just semi-joking comments whenever I order from home and 'only' pick the stuff up at the store.

For the rest of this general thread I feel GW has clearly taken a high road with pricing and marketing. And it does seem that there are directives coming from management telling employees to harp on people who arn't loyal enough. They probably create more enemies than friends in doing that, but then again with their prices being what they are they are likely to come out winners for the few stupid sods (like me) who still buys most of our stuff directly from them.

Mellowlicious
09-08-2012, 15:19
Not to derail things and I haven't read the whole thread so maybe this happened to someone else, but still;

<snip>

Even though it's far less comfortable than ordering from behind you computer, couldn't you order it a your GW by phone?

Hicks
09-08-2012, 15:56
If it was a non-GW store I'd understand, but the reason why you are buying off eBay instead of getting the product right there, right now must be... oh the stupid high prices. Their stuff is so expensive that everybody I've ever met who play's GW games buy mainly from internet discounters, some even have to if they want to be able to afford the product. I don't have a GW store near me, but what I read about them on the internet isn't too great: treating vets like garbage, gaming tables reserved for newbs and not big enough for an actual game, GW games being banned from the stores, the buy BUY BUUUYYYYY attitude of the staff. If they offer such poor service, they have to compensate with something else to draw in clients, but with their pricing, I don't see how they can hope to do that too well.

Had I been in your situation, I wouldn't have been ashamed to tell the guy that I wouldn't even be playing their games anymore if it wasn't for discounters and 2nd hand sellers.

It's like music stores here, back before the internet they were selling their CDs at horribly inflated prices. If you were a metal lover then too bad for you, all those CDs (except Metallica) were "imports" and costed at least $30. Now things have changed big time as they found out that ripping off their clients didn't work so well when they could get the same product a lot cheaper on the web (or even for free if you don't mind not having the CD case).

Harwammer
09-08-2012, 17:07
Anyways it just elaborates about the kind of person that is out there, that goes into a restaurant, sits patiently if the food takes forever, doesn't complain when drinks are late or something they ordered isn't prepared correctly. They just don't come back, and neither do their friends. One thing GW/ish stores and restaurants have in common is they depend on repeat customers. You obviously fit this description the poster tried to describe, now knowing this how can anyone defend the sales badgering. If someone wants to say that they get pushed into more sales than pushed out of them I can't argue but I doubt it would be an honest answer.

I think I fit this description (wavvy lines taking us back to Sunday night):

I went to Chiquitos in Nottingham (first time), got a seat immediately and had my drinks order taken immediately. Was impressed, but woefully this wouldn't last!
After 5 mins the drinks are still sitting on the bar top, so I go over and ask if they are ours. You know I'm a pretty boy and I don't want it being spiked ;). The girl at the bar checks the receipt next to them and yes, they are for our table. She offers to take them over, but I don't see the point as I'm right there and may as well take the drinks with me on the walk back. Kinda phased that they were left there and not bought over earlier, but meh.

Next someone comes over to take our order. We were reading Deadpool comics earlier; obviously we all order chimichangas. Two shredded pork and one chicken. The order was taken and the food arrived pretty quickly so again I was happy. However, halfway into my first chimichanga I turned to my friend and said 'this is not chicken'.
'This ain't pork' he replied. The kitchen had got the little name flags the wrong way around. I was quite frustrated about this as many of my friends can't eat pork: it was fortunate it happened to me and not one of them! So another bad stroke.

It's getting late now and we're still slowly plugging away at our food. The waiter comes over (I guess they want to close down soon) whilst we're having a break (chatting instead of eating). He asks if we are done. "mmmmm... no" I reply, yet a hand comes over and picks up my plate. "Errr... Oi!" I stammer and yell. They might be filling, but dammit I wanna finish my delicious food! Third strike.

So we finish our food, ask for the bill and for the money to be rounded up and split 3 ways on our cards. We pay up and leave. It's too late and we're too British to complain. The food was delicious, but the service was awful. I certainly won't be a regular visitor, indeed will probably never go back. Especially if that waiter is there, haha! I'm disgusted that the kitchen mixed up pork and chicken. That's a pretty grave error.

Anecdote complete and getting to the crux: the idea of the silent customer/silent killer is definately of merit. If I have bad service I'm the kind to pay up, leave quietly and be much more reluctant about coming back. This applies whether I've had bad service (as per my anecdote) or I feel staff are too snide or passive/aggresive about my 'dollar'. If you don't think they're worth the bother/money anymore just don't go back and leave them to rot. That said you have to give them a few chances; everyone/thing sometimes has off days!

The bearded one
09-08-2012, 18:49
I don't have a GW store near me, but what I read about them on the internet isn't too great: treating vets like garbage, gaming tables reserved for newbs and not big enough for an actual game, GW games being banned from the stores, the buy BUY BUUUYYYYY attitude of the staff.

It depends on the store, and of course not all mentioned things happen at each store at the same time. It also depends a bit on the location and attitude of staff and customers there. In my local GW in Rotterdam the staff is fairly sensible about these things. If you're jumping and shouting about or be silly, customers are just gonna raise their eyebrows or tell you to stop it, and leave. That's simply the attitude folk have around here, while you could get away with acting like that in another location, like GW Eindhoven (some staff of which incidentally fell in in GW R'dam recently, and experienced the different attitudes firsthand :D ). The staff appreciates building up a community of regulars, and we often give them a hand, gaming with new people for example. We have our own local 'longbeard' who likes to game at the GW, and isn't illtreated or 'chased out' by staff :p The store currently has 3 tables of 4' x 4', 1 of which has intro and intropainting stuff, but between the other 2 we are allowed to put boards, effectively adding another 4'x 4' between them. The upcoming new manager, (assuming he gets the job of course, but his odds are pretty good), also wanted to add an extra portion of table to that.

mdauben
09-08-2012, 19:57
It depends on the store, and of course not all mentioned things happen at each store at the same time. It also depends a bit on the location and attitude of staff and customers there.
I consider myself lucky in this respect to be in the US. Even though there are some GW stores here, they never achieved the near universal dominance they seem to have in the UK. The few times I've been in US GW stores, I was quickly driven out again by overly pushy sales staff. I have always found indepenent stores to be much more comfortable places, usually with superior gaming space, more laid back staff and a more congenial clientel.

This certainly isn't limited to GW and a few years ago it was quite common to have sales people accosting you every few steps in hardware, sporting goods and other large retail stores. I understand they were doubtless trained to do exactly this, but in my case at least they had the exact opposite effect as I got tired of telling people "no I don't need any help, I'll let you know if I do". Instead of wandering the store, browsing and perhaps impuse buying extra items, I would rush through the store with my head down, snatch what I wanted and leave immediatly.

Beastlord
09-08-2012, 20:20
I kindof understand the whole " GW have the right to deny you use of non-GW minis in their stores" thing, but I don't really think it's beneficial to them. I have a GW nearby and would love to play there as I have relatively few opponents but I can't because about a third of my chaos army is non-GW ( plus chaos doesn't exist anymore but hey it's just an example). To be clear - it is a big army, I still have many thousands of points of GW models but I'm not allowed in so I feel no loyalty to the store so I don't buy anything there. They are doing absolutely nothing to encourage me to buy direct - you'd have to be mad in the circumstances. They are losing out on my custom because of that rule (plus their insane prices). To me their fear over their customers seeing other companies miniatures looks very much like a lack of confidence in their own product.

theunwantedbeing
09-08-2012, 20:30
I kindof understand the whole " GW have the right to deny you use of non-GW minis in their stores" thing, but I don't really think it's beneficial to them. I have a GW nearby and would love to play there as I have relatively few opponents but I can't because about a third of my chaos army is non-GW. To be clear - it is a big army, I still have many thousands of points of GW models but I'm not allowed in so I feel no loyalty to the store so I don't buy anything there.

Let me get this straight.
You aren't allowed to in because...
1. You own other companies models?
2. You refuse to not use those other companies models at the store?

Jind_Singh
09-08-2012, 21:46
Why is this thread littering our Warhammer General scene? It's a GW thread - why is it still being displayed here? If I want to see people rant over GW I'd go to that dusty section and see years old bile and twisted hate - Beastmen and Dark Elves got NOTHING on hatred compared to GW haters.


Let's see this thread moved to it's proper section so the rest of us can ignore it and get on with Warhammer Fantasy please mods.

HurrDurr
10-08-2012, 00:29
I think I fit this description (wavvy lines taking us back to Sunday night):

I went to Chiquitos in Nottingham (first time), got a seat immediately and had my drinks order taken immediately. Was impressed, but woefully this wouldn't last!
After 5 mins the drinks are still sitting on the bar top, so I go over and ask if they are ours. You know I'm a pretty boy and I don't want it being spiked ;). The girl at the bar checks the receipt next to them and yes, they are for our table. She offers to take them over, but I don't see the point as I'm right there and may as well take the drinks with me on the walk back. Kinda phased that they were left there and not bought over earlier, but meh.

Next someone comes over to take our order. We were reading Deadpool comics earlier; obviously we all order chimichangas. Two shredded pork and one chicken. The order was taken and the food arrived pretty quickly so again I was happy. However, halfway into my first chimichanga I turned to my friend and said 'this is not chicken'.
'This ain't pork' he replied. The kitchen had got the little name flags the wrong way around. I was quite frustrated about this as many of my friends can't eat pork: it was fortunate it happened to me and not one of them! So another bad stroke.

It's getting late now and we're still slowly plugging away at our food. The waiter comes over (I guess they want to close down soon) whilst we're having a break (chatting instead of eating). He asks if we are done. "mmmmm... no" I reply, yet a hand comes over and picks up my plate. "Errr... Oi!" I stammer and yell. They might be filling, but dammit I wanna finish my delicious food! Third strike.

So we finish our food, ask for the bill and for the money to be rounded up and split 3 ways on our cards. We pay up and leave. It's too late and we're too British to complain. The food was delicious, but the service was awful. I certainly won't be a regular visitor, indeed will probably never go back. Especially if that waiter is there, haha! I'm disgusted that the kitchen mixed up pork and chicken. That's a pretty grave error.

Anecdote complete and getting to the crux: the idea of the silent customer/silent killer is definately of merit. If I have bad service I'm the kind to pay up, leave quietly and be much more reluctant about coming back. This applies whether I've had bad service (as per my anecdote) or I feel staff are too snide or passive/aggresive about my 'dollar'. If you don't think they're worth the bother/money anymore just don't go back and leave them to rot. That said you have to give them a few chances; everyone/thing sometimes has off days!

Both sides of my family do not eat pork for religious reasons, that's one of those things that could get ugly fast.

So hearing a lot of what people here have to say, I'm wondering how this shoving things in your face style business strategy can even be taken seriously. Part of me feels that a huge corporation like GWS couldn't be that stupid and it's just me being ignorant, but then again I know it's not selling me more models so it just looks like a dead end.

Beastlord
10-08-2012, 01:01
Let me get this straight.
You aren't allowed to in because...
1. You own other companies models?
2. You refuse to not use those other companies models at the store?

Sorry I didn't mean literally not allowed in - rather not allowed to play because my army contains non-GW models.

Nubl0
10-08-2012, 01:42
Feel sorry for all the people that hate GW, my local GW is a great place to game. As for not being able to use non-GW models in store? Totally within reason imho :P

Lord Dan
10-08-2012, 02:18
Feel sorry for all the people that hate GW, my local GW is a great place to game. As for not being able to use non-GW models in store? Totally within reason imho :P

My hatred* of GW has absolutely nothing to do with any of their in-store policies.

*Discontentment towards

Arnizipal
10-08-2012, 08:59
Bunch of posts removed.
Please play nice people.

Arnizipal,

++ The Warseer Moderation Team ++

Caiphas Cain
10-08-2012, 09:30
My hatred* of GW has absolutely nothing to do with any of their in-store policies.

*Discontentment towards

Same here. There's nothing that I really dislike about the stores themselves. Yeah, the staff ask if you need X Y and Z, but how hard is it to say, "No. No. No,"? I'd bet that -most- people are alright with GW's stores. Their prices though, is what generates a lot of the hatred GW recieves.

stroller
10-08-2012, 11:36
So I'm just getting back into the hobby, but I'm not a dummy per se and I've done my research before hand. I chose Bretonnians because I just plain like the fluff/models/aesthetics.
All good so far.

Anyways we have a new GW store near me and I went in to buy the army book even though I have it on PDF.
Yep. You're wrong here.


back with the good guys...

[I]When I went to pay me and the staffer started some light banter about the escalation league that was starting and that I was going to enter as some motivation to paint and also to network with some other wargamers, etc. The following is the dialogue.
Good plan - engage the customer...

"Make sure you bring your rulebook...do you have a rulebook yet?"
Again, reasonable (maybe add on sale here, doing his job)

"Not yet, but I'm in the process of getting one."
"Process?" -Inquisitive look of confusion-
Unclear. So "huh?" isnt unreasonable. "Yes" MIGHT have been more discreet, as you'd presumably have received it before your next visit.

"Well...yea...off Ebay."
Foot. Mouth.

"Oh man that hurts...Ebay doesn't pay my bills and it doesn't help local stores either..."
More foot. More mouth.

-Awkward silence as I hand over my credit card-

He didn't say it in a mean way, but it was one of those passive-aggressive tones you know? Where he's faking a joke but the real meaning is seeping through. Is this kosher? I mean I know he has a job to do and everything, and yea his store is evaluated only on product sold but I just dropped over sixty bucks and half of it was for something I had for free already (which I told him on my previous visit and he covered his ears and said "Ahhh I didn't hear that"). I'm not trying to be the bad guy here, but maybe I am?
Yes, he could have been more diplomatic, but so could you. Yes, it's kosher. He DOES have a job to do. You have a perfect right to (legally) buy whatever you like wherever you like, but saying "No, I'm getting stuff you sell somewhere else" (not to mention pirated) isn't exactly subtle.

Anyways, now I'm worried about bringing in some non GW minis to play with in the store because I'll get similar treatment. It's not my fault that a Dark Sword Cersei makes for a way cooler and way hotter damsel than the GW mini that has 15 pounds of hair.

Am I in the wrong here?
As others have said, it's perfectly reasonable for a retailer to limit figures used in their store however they like.

On balance, he could have phrased it better, but yeah, pretty much, you're in the wrong. C'est la vie.

The Clairvoyant
10-08-2012, 12:53
If I go to my local GW even to just chat with the staff, i always make sure i buy something. To me, its just polite.
After a discussion with the manager there about how they get the 'sale' if you order from the order point in store, I have taken to buying the direct-only stuff i want through their instore point to help them out.
That said, I still go elsewhere sometimes. I use Rocket Hobbies for their huge 25% discount - i did this for the 6th ed rulebook and meant i was able to get the psychic cards as well and still be cheaper than just buying the rulebook from GW. Fortunately for me, Rocket are local to me so i can pick up from them and avoid the P&P.
I've even chatted to the owner at Rocket and asked about using an offline payment method rather than paypal to help him out. If I'm paying £40, why shouldn't they get £40 instead of getting hit with paypal charges?

Llew
10-08-2012, 15:33
As has been stated, the PDF thing was indefensibly wrong, but you have since resolved that.

I'd have resolved the rest of the conversation like this...


"Make sure you bring your rulebook...do you have a rulebook yet?"
"Not yet, but I'm in the process of getting one."
"Process?" -Inquisitive look of confusion-
"Well...yea...off Ebay."
"Oh man that hurts...Ebay doesn't pay my bills and it doesn't help local stores either..."

"If you can match the price I get off Ebay, I'll buy from you."
"I can't do that."
"How about if I throw in 10% over that to reflect the convenience of being able to buy it in store right now?"
"I can't do that."
"So you're stuck taking no sale over a still-profitable sale at a reduced price? Then it's not really Ebay that's hurting your store."

Solved.

DarkLordBelial
10-08-2012, 18:35
I think I would have been quick to point out that if I had to pay GW prices I wouldn't be able to pay my bills either.

DaemonReign
10-08-2012, 18:37
Even though it's far less comfortable than ordering from behind you computer, couldn't you order it a your GW by phone?

*HAHAHA*
You're right I could, but the nerd-overdose would be the end of me..

And I'd have to give them the security digits to my credit card, and walk them through the log-in procedure of my internet-bank security service (like 1000 digits of random numbers) ... so yeah.. I'm just waiting for them to suggest it really. :)

Mastodon
10-08-2012, 19:10
*HAHAHA*
You're right I could, but the nerd-overdose would be the end of me..

And I'd have to give them the security digits to my credit card, and walk them through the log-in procedure of my internet-bank security service (like 1000 digits of random numbers) ... so yeah.. I'm just waiting for them to suggest it really. :)

No they'd just put it through the till credit card machine like you were paying for things in store. You dont have to put your details in if you order things in a GW store. All they need is the amount, order number and if you're doing it by phone they'd need some more details to verify the cards identity and thats it.

mdauben
10-08-2012, 20:16
Same here. There's nothing that I really dislike about the stores themselves. Yeah, the staff ask if you need X Y and Z, but how hard is it to say, "No. No. No,"? I'd bet that -most- people are alright with GW's stores. Their prices though, is what generates a lot of the hatred GW recieves.
No, in my case its definetly their in-store policies not the prices. Admittely, no one likes GWs full retail pricing, and most people would rather play less, but to me that's not the reason I don't patronize GW stores. I find the staff annoying. Yes, it's easy enough to say "No" but too many of the one's I have encountered don't take no for an answer and will hang over my shoulder, suggesting products or asking questions about my army until I want to scream. I have never encounterd that in independent shops.

I also find the gaming facilities in GW shops to often be substandard. IIRC the last GW shop I was in had two 4x4 foot gaming tables (which size I consider totally inadequate for a normal sized game) and they were often tied up with demo and beginner games. This for me is the deal-killer. The only reason I buy anything from a brick and morter game store is to support my gaming venue. If I can't game there, why not just buy everything on-line at a discount?

For example, my local independent has I think a half dozen 4x6 gaming tables, plus painting tables and a lounging area with couch and soda machine. All in all the independent is a much better venue. That not even considering that they carry non-GW products that I am also interested in. I'll gladly pay a bit more to help support the gaming facilities there. :)

DaemonReign
11-08-2012, 09:06
No they'd just put it through the till credit card machine like you were paying for things in store. You dont have to put your details in if you order things in a GW store. All they need is the amount, order number and if you're doing it by phone they'd need some more details to verify the cards identity and thats it.

Fair enough. Thanks (actually). I'll keep it in mind.

Konovalev
13-08-2012, 14:26
Yikes, some bitter posts in this thread. There's no need to browbeat the staffer for GW's prices, he has no control over it.

theunwantedbeing
13-08-2012, 14:34
Sorry I didn't mean literally not allowed in - rather not allowed to play because my army contains non-GW models.

So option 2 then.
You refuse to not use other companies models at the store.

I can't say I have any sympathy for that sort of thinking.

jack da greenskin
13-08-2012, 17:12
Yikes, some bitter posts in this thread. There's no need to browbeat the staffer for GW's prices, he has no control over it.

Well no, he doesnt, but if he's blindly defending them, you're in your rights to say why shopping on ebay or an online store is better for you, the CUSTOMER :)

Commissar Merces
13-08-2012, 17:33
It's conversations like the original poster's dialogue with a staff member that has 100% driven me out of the store. Our local manager is so aggressive that he has literally driven our whole gaming club out of the store. I used to buy religiously (over $1,289 in 4 months) but the manager has gotten so annoying that I can't even bring myself to go back to store. Luckily we had a visiting manager last week and I actually went down to the store and played games bought miniatures even painted! (AND I HATE PAINTING).

I have a bit of a problem with GW prices, but it's really the overbearing sales tactics that have driven me away and the managers unwillingness to be proactive about organizing events.

Case in point, I made the mistake of going to the store this week to pick up a box that I forgot to purchase last week. And the conversation went something like this.

Me: "Just this box of XXXXX today"
Manager: "but you never come down here just for one box."
Me: "Well I am today"
Manager: "you know I haven't seen you around awhile, surely you need more?"
Me: "Nope just this."

Conversation continues with badgering about what I need for my army and the new white dwarf releases that are "most buys for me" as he rings me up.

OP-you did nothing wrong. And if I were you, I would try and find a new place to play/buy my army. I don't know where you are located, but your manager sounds exactly like mine almost to the point that i am convinced you are in my area.

The bearded one
13-08-2012, 18:38
OP-you did nothing wrong. And if I were you, I would try and find a new place to play/buy my army. I don't know where you are located, but your manager sounds exactly like mine almost to the point that i am convinced you are in my area.

Yours sounds significantly more pushy.

Andy089
13-08-2012, 19:24
Well in my local GW, it really depends whos shift it is.
Some talk to you and try to sell something, as soon as they figure out you're not going to buy anything, you're dropped like a hot potato.
There are others who actually talk to you, even when you're not buying stuff.
And there are some who just rank you second priority while you are talking, as they figure out you won't buy stuff. You can literally see it on their faces.

But generally, I quite like it here (it's still better than the LGS where they'd actually be a bit mad if you come it without buying)...

Mastodon
13-08-2012, 19:46
Well you are going into a shop. If you're not buying anything you arent as high priority as the people that are.

loveless
13-08-2012, 19:46
It says the OP is in Nashville. Shopping on price points is not uncommon in the US. If a competitor sells the same item cheaper, it's likely that they'll get the business over your store. You need incentives to beat the price game in America - loyalty points (works super for hotels and stores like Best Buy) or value-adds ("free" stuff to make the price disparity seem less) are the most common.

GW should be in the latter category (though I'd just as soon have them in the former), but their value's continually diminishing. People have mentioned it before - smaller tables, more "training" areas as opposed to gaming areas, harrassment by the staff when you don't buy the "new hotness" and so on. Why go in and give them money if they're just going to berate you for not spending more money?

Did the OP have to tell the employee he was buying off of eBay? No - he could have lied, he could have refused to answer, etc. etc. I'm going to go ahead and say that it's far more valuable to GW for him to have told the truth, though. If 4 out of 5 people say "I'll get it off eBay, it's cheaper" then it's a good sign that that particular market is pretty price sensitive - pass that along at your monthly meetings. GW won't do a damn thing about it, but at least they'll be aware of the situation. They seem to be the sort that would rather pull out of an area than try to compete, though.

What's really obnoxious about the first post is that the staffer decided to play guilt-trip even when the OP was handing him money. Depending on his exact tone, he either would have lost my sale entirely or been advised to find another (or an additional) source of income if that's difficult to pay his bills.

It's like the waiter who, for some reason, gives you the sob story about his current situation in an attempt to get a better tip (yep, had that happen before - he got a few pennies total). Do your job well, outsmart your competition, and then you can have my business. If someone else offers the better deal - either match it or deal with it. The "guilt trip" is the worst tool in any arsenal - it should be countered with derision and scorn if anything at all.

tiger g
13-08-2012, 21:08
It is hard to get the true events from the description. The OP already admitted to the staffer he is willing to get illegal PDF's off the internet. Even though he bought the codex the staffer might have a disposition to think that is what he is waiting for. Also the store sales level might have it close to being closed. The staffer might not be able to state this but the "guilt" trip might be a warning the staffer's job is in jeopardy or the store.

Commissar Merces
13-08-2012, 22:19
It is hard to get the true events from the description. The OP already admitted to the staffer he is willing to get illegal PDF's off the internet. Even though he bought the codex the staffer might have a disposition to think that is what he is waiting for. Also the store sales level might have it close to being closed. The staffer might not be able to state this but the "guilt" trip might be a warning the staffer's job is in jeopardy or the store.

The store in question just opened a couple of months ago... I don't think they would close that quickly (if the OP location is correct).

prowla
14-08-2012, 06:58
It's probably nothing new to anyone that GW stores have somewhat unfortunate policies, not to mention high prices. I cannot understand their retail model that offers nothing but highest prices, least possible gaming space and most annoying staff training models, not to mention a bunch of somewhat silly rules about what you can and cannot do.

I rather do my walk-in shopping at FLGS, even if most prices are about the same as at GW stores around here.

Jim
14-08-2012, 11:16
It's probably nothing new to anyone that GW stores have somewhat unfortunate policies, not to mention high prices. I cannot understand their retail model that offers nothing but highest prices, least possible gaming space and most annoying staff training models, not to mention a bunch of somewhat silly rules about what you can and cannot do.

I rather do my walk-in shopping at FLGS, even if most prices are about the same as at GW stores around here.

Can't say that I disagree entirely with you (but my local GW know me and are not pushy)...But I would counter that you and me are not the target audience for GW B&M stores...

I would imagine they are more than happy for us to buy our stuff from online retailers/ebay (£&$ all go back to GW in the end)... as long as 'Little Timmy' is dragging Mum and Dad into the store every Sat/Sun and school holidays to play games, get painting lessons and spend, spend, spend - do you agree?

Jim

Lord Dan
14-08-2012, 15:22
It says the OP is in Nashville. Shopping on price points is not uncommon in the US. If a competitor sells the same item cheaper, it's likely that they'll get the business over your store. You need incentives to beat the price game in America - loyalty points (works super for hotels and stores like Best Buy) or value-adds ("free" stuff to make the price disparity seem less) are the most common.

GW should be in the latter category (though I'd just as soon have them in the former), but their value's continually diminishing. People have mentioned it before - smaller tables, more "training" areas as opposed to gaming areas, harrassment by the staff when you don't buy the "new hotness" and so on. Why go in and give them money if they're just going to berate you for not spending more money?

Did the OP have to tell the employee he was buying off of eBay? No - he could have lied, he could have refused to answer, etc. etc. I'm going to go ahead and say that it's far more valuable to GW for him to have told the truth, though. If 4 out of 5 people say "I'll get it off eBay, it's cheaper" then it's a good sign that that particular market is pretty price sensitive - pass that along at your monthly meetings. GW won't do a damn thing about it, but at least they'll be aware of the situation. They seem to be the sort that would rather pull out of an area than try to compete, though.

What's really obnoxious about the first post is that the staffer decided to play guilt-trip even when the OP was handing him money. Depending on his exact tone, he either would have lost my sale entirely or been advised to find another (or an additional) source of income if that's difficult to pay his bills.

It's like the waiter who, for some reason, gives you the sob story about his current situation in an attempt to get a better tip (yep, had that happen before - he got a few pennies total). Do your job well, outsmart your competition, and then you can have my business. If someone else offers the better deal - either match it or deal with it. The "guilt trip" is the worst tool in any arsenal - it should be countered with derision and scorn if anything at all.

This.

We have a store around here locally that doesn't offer any discount on any of their products. Just a 20 minute drive away there is another store which offers an across-the-board 25% discount on miniatures, with an additional 5% discount if you pay in cash. When some friends and I talked to the owner of the first store about the discounts at the second, and that, in the case of Privateer Press, he could charge whatever he wanted, we were met with a response of: "I wouldn't make any money if I went that low." In another case the owner told us that he had gotten a massive discount on the recent magic release for buying in bulk. At first I assumed he would have passed this (effectively free) discount on to his customers as a way to encourage additional sales, however he went on to say: "So that was a nice way to get some extra profit."

This store has several similarities with GW as a whole:
1) They cannot adapt their business model to succeed based on changes them that require them to take on additional financial risk, even if the current path inevitably leads to ruin.
2) They feel it is the responsibility of their customers to keep them in business. In actuality, it is the responsibility of the store to do whatever it takes to create incentive for their customers to keep them in business.

Hopefully both companies will learn from better examples in time.

tiger g
14-08-2012, 22:42
Well I have several stores but convieince is important. So one is five minutes from work the other is five minutes from home. The work one offered me a 15% discount. They never have what I want. Need to order it. Do not call when it is in. Sometimes sells it before I get ther ( less than a week) cannot find the order, usually it is there. Also I have to tell them what is out. This is primarily a game store with 8 or more tables and scenery.

Other has stock and knowledgeable staff, no discount on table to play on and sells other items and limited hours. So I buy the majority of the items at no discount but game at the other store.

xxRavenxx
14-08-2012, 23:04
we were met with a response of: "I wouldn't make any money if I went that low."

...

Hopefully [he] will learn from better examples in time.

I snipped those bits out, because there is something I must mention to you:

He was probably telling you the truth.



If he went 25% off on his products, he'd need to triple his sales to get the same revenue. That is a huge problem for him. I certainly would never make the move myself.

Lord Dan
15-08-2012, 00:32
I snipped those bits out, because there is something I must mention to you:

He was probably telling you the truth.



If he went 25% off on his products, he'd need to triple his sales to get the same revenue. That is a huge problem for him. I certainly would never make the move myself.

I didn't specify this fact in my post, though it was implied somewhat: if something doesn't change, this store is going to go out of business. They've changed management once already, and they currently don't have enough money saved to invest in more stock- most everything needs to be special ordered. In his case he's in an unfortunate situation, because he's doesn't isn't just competing with online businesses which undercut his margins, he's competing with a store down the street doing the exact same thing. As a customer it's a no-brainer for me, as I still get to support a local business and I get 30% at the same time.

So let me pose this to you: if someone opened a shop across the street from you and offered the same 30% discount to customers, what would you do? Were I in that situation I'd do the best I could, perhaps offering a 20% discount with more on top for regulars or bulk orders.

Discounting is a risk because those sales need to be compensated for, however if you're choosing between this and going out of business...well, the choice should be easy.

Zephel
15-08-2012, 04:18
I didn't specify this fact in my post, though it was implied somewhat: if something doesn't change, this store is going to go out of business. They've changed management once already, and they currently don't have enough money saved to invest in more stock- most everything needs to be special ordered. In his case he's in an unfortunate situation, because he's doesn't isn't just competing with online businesses which undercut his margins, he's competing with a store down the street doing the exact same thing. As a customer it's a no-brainer for me, as I still get to support a local business and I get 30% at the same time.

So let me pose this to you: if someone opened a shop across the street from you and offered the same 30% discount to customers, what would you do? Were I in that situation I'd do the best I could, perhaps offering a 20% discount with more on top for regulars or bulk orders.

Discounting is a risk because those sales need to be compensated for, however if you're choosing between this and going out of business...well, the choice should be easy.

This is the store I go to as well, and I completely agree. In a college town most people are pretty well educated in the 'internets' and know how to find a good deal. Granted that even off of Ebay you're probably only saving 10-15% after shipping unless it's a consumer selling leftovers at a killer deal. This local store doesn't need to offer EXACTLY the same discount the other competitor does 30 minutes away. They just need to give enough incentives that it isn't worth your time driving there and spending the gas money to get the extra discount.

The scary thing is that this business didn't do ANY research into their LOCAL competitors let alone online ones. And to ignore online competitors is like saying the internet is a fad. I'm not sure if anyone else has read this article (http://www.thegamesjournal.com/articles/OpeningAGameStore.shtml) or anything like it, but if you look at the "biggest rookie mistakes" section this store LITERALLY did every single one listed. But I digress.

Point is any business has to compete. This doesn't have to mirror the competitor but it needs to match it in its own way or they will burn and die.

Grimtuff
15-08-2012, 11:07
I think this relates to the much discussed issue of staff pushing their products (I know they have to, being GW policy). I don't mind them mentioning some products at the check out but if I give an ambiguous answer they should just give up the questioning rather than pressuring further. So I wish the staffer stopped when the OP said 'I'm in the process of getting one'.

I often feel they make it worse for themselves. Buying some paint and the staffer wanted to know what I was painting, I guess intending to then suggest products. I said all sorts of stuff so the questioning continues. World war one dreadnoughts I (truthfully) respond and the conversation sours. The staffer is trained to push products but are they trained to respond if someone is more interested in historicals? Secondly, buying some of the new savage orcs. The guy is pressuring me on the 8th ed Army book, that I give an ambiguous response and he picks one up, opens it and shoves it in my face. So I'm flicking through it wondering what to do. The answer I give eventually is that I still have my 4th ed book (which is true). However, the real answer is that the savage orcs are for Warhammer Quest. There's a reasonable chance the staffer have never heard of Warhammer Quest (unless it was part of his training)? The game must be about 18 years old and was last in white dwarf I guess 16 years ago. Are staffers trained to respond about out of date GW products? Anyway, I don't mind them mentioning other products but wish they would drop it as soon as the ambiguous answers come out.

Had a similar situation a couple of weeks ago. I popped into my local GW to get some paints (simple convenience) and the manager was once again haranguing me about what I'm playing and buying the new 40k rulebook. I said I was not interested and was waiting for the starter box to come out, so I won't have a massive book that I have to lug around and be able to give someone some major blunt trauma with. So the conversation went like so:

GW manager: How do you know there's going to be a starter box?
Me: Well it's pretty obvious isn't it?
GWM: .....
GWM: Anyway, why don't you come down the store to play a game?
Me: As the game I'm currently playing cannot be played in GW stores *ifyouknowwhatImean*
GWM: Why would that be? *He keeps pushing for an answer*
Me: Well, unless you're going to let me play Warmachine here...
GWM: Well, no that's not one of our games.
Me: Walks away thinking this: http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/007/666/_57c8a1a431a592af806925e57258202f.png

He pressured me for a truthful answer and I gave him one. We already established I have no desire to get back into 40k until I can get the smaller rulebook (which he denies the existence of). Yet they go into meltdown when you mention something not covered by their training. Yes, I'm playing WM at home as it's a significantly better game. I have no desire to play down the shop for a myriad of reasons, please don't pressure me for an answer when it becomes obvious you may not like it.

paddyalexander
15-08-2012, 22:30
GWM: Well, no that's not one of our game


He probably would have given you the same reaction if you had mentioned any of the specialist games, space hulk or dreadfleet.

xxRavenxx
15-08-2012, 23:05
So let me pose this to you: if someone opened a shop across the street from you and offered the same 30% discount to customers, what would you do? Were I in that situation I'd do the best I could, perhaps offering a 20% discount with more on top for regulars or bulk orders.

I'd close.


No. Really.


If I felt the other store that opened up had the resources to keep up a 30% discount long tem, I'd close my doors, offer to sell them my stock at 40% off (or flood the local market by doing a burn sale) and call it a day.

Zephel
16-08-2012, 06:06
There's a little more detail to it. There's a 25% discount for CASH only at the competitor, not sure what it is for credit but it is less. The 30% is ONLY for Warmachine (with cash). One key part of that is that it is the only store I know of in the area that supplies Warmachine, and they got rid of ALL of their GW stock (some was on super clearance to get rid of it). This happened years ago.

So they can offer that discount for two reasons. A) No Warmachine competition and B) cash only so no loss of money through the credit card companies. Not to mention the fact that from my understanding vendors get a better % profit from PP's products (course I could be wrong) so can offer a better discount.


I'd close.


No. Really.


If I felt the other store that opened up had the resources to keep up a 30% discount long tem, I'd close my doors, offer to sell them my stock at 40% off (or flood the local market by doing a burn sale) and call it a day.

xxRavenxx
16-08-2012, 08:48
Not to mention the fact that from my understanding vendors get a better % profit from PP's products (course I could be wrong) so can offer a better discount.

I can't comment on America, but in the UK its not an increased margin. I don't deal with a games company that doesn't aim at the 40% margin. (GW give me 43% because I've earned three individual 1% rises for prompt payments and conforming to certain rules) but 40% is what games companies normally do. (and what most retail outside of food does).


Again, this may differ in America, but credit companies don't actually eat much margin in the uk. a couple of %, with a minimum spend (ie, if I only earn them £4 of commission in a month, they top it up to £5. If I earn them £6, its still £6.) Cash discounts in the UK generally mean tax evasion. :)


As I said, if someone on my doorstep could sustain a 30% discount on products, I'd close, because I couldn't sustain my business on 1/4 of the profits.


To be honest, I'm surprised the other place can indeed sustain such a sharp hit on profits.

azhagmorglum
16-08-2012, 10:11
I can see the staff was a bit aggressive with his comment, but he was saying out loud what every staffer would think in that kind of situation, specially if he´s the store´s owner. On the other hand, they can´t expect every customer buy everything from them. As many people have said here, if you go to the store often, play there and you enjoy the gaming community, you should support it, and that involves buying there (at least from time to time). And avoiding certain subjects is much better: if you use ebay, buy elsewhere etc, just don´t mention it in.

They guy was getting back in the hobby, he wasn't using space or tables. And he was supporting the hobby like you said since he had just purchased 60 bucks of products.
Now I agree he shouldn't have mentionned ebay, that's something I would avoid. But paradoxally, I wouldn't do it not only because it's sensitive, but also because I kind of feel ashamed of having done it in when I'm in front of the staffer. Which is not normal since it's perfectly legal and logical in our times (buying cheaper etc...). But it doesn't mean I'm going to buy anything form a GW, and I'm annoyed when a GW employee is trying to push a buying from me. But I remain courteous and say that I don't need stuff or have many things to complete before I buy more.

Anyways, I still feel like their price is too high and that's why I don't buy from GW directly anymore (or at least very rarely)

Lord Dan
16-08-2012, 15:38
I can't comment on America, but in the UK its not an increased margin. I don't deal with a games company that doesn't aim at the 40% margin. (GW give me 43% because I've earned three individual 1% rises for prompt payments and conforming to certain rules) but 40% is what games companies normally do. (and what most retail outside of food does).


Again, this may differ in America, but credit companies don't actually eat much margin in the uk. a couple of %, with a minimum spend (ie, if I only earn them £4 of commission in a month, they top it up to £5. If I earn them £6, its still £6.) Cash discounts in the UK generally mean tax evasion. :)


As I said, if someone on my doorstep could sustain a 30% discount on products, I'd close, because I couldn't sustain my business on 1/4 of the profits.


To be honest, I'm surprised the other place can indeed sustain such a sharp hit on profits.

American vendors start at a 45% margin, though I'm not sure whether or not they get the additional 1% rise like you guys do.

leeoaks
16-08-2012, 20:03
If I worked in a store and you mentioned eBay or another online company, I would concentrate on getting you to buy in to my store activity.
Why get upset or funny a pee a new customer off?


I work in sales, admittedly technical it training not retail. But I think the same rules apply.....

Rule 1: people buy from people

Price doesn't matter that much if you get on with your clients.

So you play warmachine.....your gonna wait for the mini rulebook , sweet. Come an play me until then and you can borrow mine.
Not willing to get a rulebook yet....i'll get you hooked in the meantime. If your playing me your not playing wm.

jack da greenskin
16-08-2012, 20:35
So you play warmachine.....your gonna wait for the mini rulebook , sweet. Come an play me until then and you can borrow mine.
Not willing to get a rulebook yet....i'll get you hooked in the meantime. If your playing me your not playing wm.
I dont get the last bit? but I'd like to think I'd do the same kind of thing. Having a go at customers really isnt going to get them to increase their spending.

I noticed the opposite in my local GW, however. "We have a brand new 6th ed tournament... you MUST have a copy of the rulebook to take part." I can only assume they think everyone interested will buy the £45 rulebook, to have the privilege of taking part, other than getting several more people involved, who may enjoy it and then go on to buy the rulebook. It's backwards IMO.

tiger g
16-08-2012, 20:43
I dont get the last bit? but I'd like to think I'd do the same kind of thing. Having a go at customers really isnt going to get them to increase their spending.

I noticed the opposite in my local GW, however. "We have a brand new 6th ed tournament... you MUST have a copy of the rulebook to take part." I can only assume they think everyone interested will buy the £45 rulebook, to have the privilege of taking part, other than getting several more people involved, who may enjoy it and then go on to buy the rulebook. It's backwards IMO.

Local store has done that also. Too many people were using illegal PDF's and actually bringing their computers with them on it to use in the store.

My store does not require you to bring the book if you purchased it from them. It does stop the use of computers and the other customers do not ask where did you get that from.

jack da greenskin
16-08-2012, 20:54
Local store has done that also. Too many people were using illegal PDF's and actually bringing their computers with them on it to use in the store.

My store does not require you to bring the book if you purchased it from them. It does stop the use of computers and the other customers do not ask where did you get that from.

They could just ban bringing computers in though? I bring my rules to my gaming club on a tablet, and for some games, it works really well.

Obviously thats different because it's a club, so I'm not leeching off the store owners, but the point stands. *FORCING* people to buy a £45 rulebook if they want to take part in a rather mediocre event, rather than letting them buy it in their own time, when they can afford it, or when the little one's out, seems very stupid. Compounded with the attituted of the staffer mentionned previously "How do you KNOW there's going to be a mini-one in the starter set?" its so pushy and desperate, its repulsive IMO.

tiger g
16-08-2012, 21:23
They could just ban bringing computers in though? I bring my rules to my gaming club on a tablet, and for some games, it works really well.

Obviously thats different because it's a club, so I'm not leeching off the store owners, but the point stands. *FORCING* people to buy a £45 rulebook if they want to take part in a rather mediocre event, rather than letting them buy it in their own time, when they can afford it, or when the little one's out, seems very stupid. Compounded with the attituted of the staffer mentionned previously "How do you KNOW there's going to be a mini-one in the starter set?" its so pushy and desperate, its repulsive IMO.

Another reason to require ownership of the book is hopefully the players have read the rules. Many came in before with what they thought the rules were. So for small local tournaments with limited space and time this became of problem.

jack da greenskin
16-08-2012, 22:14
Another reason to require ownership of the book is hopefully the players have read the rules. Many came in before with what they thought the rules were. So for small local tournaments with limited space and time this became of problem.

I know and I did consider this... But if you have no idea how the new edition works, having a rulebook or not will not make a difference. You can't spend 20 minutes each turn in a tournament looking up small rules changes.

azhagmorglum
17-08-2012, 00:01
Case in point, I made the mistake of going to the store this week to pick up a box that I forgot to purchase last week. And the conversation went something like this.

Me: "Just this box of XXXXX today"
Manager: "but you never come down here just for one box."
Me: "Well I am today"
Manager: "you know I haven't seen you around awhile, surely you need more?"
Me: "Nope just this."


He sounds like a crack dealer. "surely you need more". Hey, what are you selling, drugs or miniatures?
It's almost as if he's trying to convince you to buy stuff otherwise you won't buy anything. If I go in a store, it's usually to get something (sometimes just to have a look but anyway), I don't need someone repeatedly telling me to buy stuff.
This kind of behaviour may work on undecided or feeble-minded kids, sadly some staff just can't tell the difference...

tiger g
17-08-2012, 01:58
I know and I did consider this... But if you have no idea how the new edition works, having a rulebook or not will not make a difference. You can't spend 20 minutes each turn in a tournament looking up small rules changes.

That is why I said hopefully

6mmhero
17-08-2012, 09:49
For the store to run the event it has to have a purpose for running it and that purpose will be to get people playing 6th ed and to ensure that as many people as possible have the new rule book.
The chances are though if you have the rule book you would have already read it through and have an understanding of the rules. It also stops people turning up and having to borrow books to find something if they have a query etc. It is the same with army books etc.
While you want the small rule book it has not been officially announced so there is a reason for the staff to act like there might not be one even though every other core game for the last few editions has had one. As part of their job they have to promote and sell what is currently available rather than saying thats ok wait for a book out in a month or two.

thenamelessdead
17-08-2012, 18:09
GW manager: How do you know there's going to be a starter box?
Me: Well it's pretty obvious isn't it?
GWM: .....
What the GWM should have done is push the old £60 starter set on you without mentioning that it contains obsolete rules. At the same time, he could have directed you to the GW website to buy the Blood Bowl boxed set which contains... obsolete rules (nitpicker clause: yes I know you're going to say that because GW haven't put a new book in their catalogue the old ones are 'current' but come on, it's 2012 not 1993).

Many of the poor experiences reflect the ones I've generally had, although once in a while you will be able to engage in human conversation with staffers if you make it clear that you're not gullible.

Inquisitor Shego
17-08-2012, 21:42
I remember when the Grey Knight codex had been out 2 months I refused to buy it, given (imo) the obscene balancing issues. I refused to let GW profit, so I downloaded it illegally, and printed it off. Cept I accidentally had it on high quality colour when I left it to Print. £40 worth of ink and paper later... And given I had to carry a huge folder around I finally bit the bullet and picked the codex up a few months later. I sure learned my lesson. I can still hear Matt Ward laughing trolololololololol

Final Score
Shego 1 - 2 Poetic Justic

On a side note, I now avoid my local GW store like the plague. It is a dull, dreary establishment, with terrible gaming boards, a quick churn of staff, the good ones never staying long, and a depressing atmosphere. Maybe I've changed, (and likely have) but this store has lost its flavour. The worst part of all is the upselling from the nice girl who works there. I know she's just a mouthpiece for company policy, but blimey, buy a pot of paint, and I should somehow be obliged to pick up the new demon chariot £30+ kit. Every time I go in. I respect stores have sales, but now I prefer to do everything online. The P&p is cheaper than a trip to town + parking anyhow. Note this is both independent stores + GW's online store. Retail feels tainted to me

popisdead
17-08-2012, 23:08
He is correct that buying it off eBay doesn't help his store. That is just a plain fact. Also don't be upset if you are asked not to use competitor models in a Games Workshop store. They are paying for that retail footprint not you.

If you want to use stolen army books and non-GW models perhaps play outside the store? I'm sure there are games clubs or friends houses you can play at.

Commissar Merces
18-08-2012, 03:20
He sounds like a crack dealer. "surely you need more". Hey, what are you selling, drugs or miniatures?
It's almost as if he's trying to convince you to buy stuff otherwise you won't buy anything. If I go in a store, it's usually to get something (sometimes just to have a look but anyway), I don't need someone repeatedly telling me to buy stuff.
This kind of behaviour may work on undecided or feeble-minded kids, sadly some staff just can't tell the difference...

Dude you have no freaking idea. Great example of his most recent display of unprofessionalism came when he didn't have the internet service provider come to the shop for an entire month. That's laziness of the highest order, especially when you are trying to run a business.

His new favorite pastime, however, is to creep local independent stores forums and see what people are doing. Seriously, last time I was there (the same time he said I haven't seen you around lately you must need more than one box) he gave me crap about playing a tournament one weekend at a local indie instead of coming to the 40k 6th ed party... excuse me PRE RELEASE PARTY FOR ADVANCED ORDERS ONLY. Instead, I enjoyed my prerelease day playing an all day tourney of 5th ed at 2,000 points (a points total that is banned from GW store for being too big mind you) 6 game total. Its an obvious choice.

The final straw, however, came today when he called out one of my friends on facebook for not coming to the shop after posting on the facebook page two days before hand that he was looking for a game (being yesterday). Now I messaged said person well before the manager replied on the local indie store page because my friend also players there and we agreed to play at the indie store well before the manager posted a reply on facebook that someone was there to play a game (5 hours before my friend had said he was free) The manager had the nerve today to post a guilt trip message calling my friend out (by name) on the facebook site wanting to know why he didn't show up and how there were people waiting to play him (again 5 hours prior to when my friend said he was free) and what gives for ditching (paraphrase, but you get the gist, it was not a kind hearted message). If there were other people at the store looking for games, why didn't they just play each other? Why bother posting this message at all?

I am sorry, but that isn't acceptable on any level. I don't know if my friend has seen it yet, but I have certainly made up my mind. I can't bring myself to go into that GW anymore and frankly it has turned me off from going back to any GW stores. I am sticking to indies and online from here on out unless I have a whim purchase in a completely different state or if this current manager is fired.

I don't know if I can report the manager or something but basically no one in my gaming group (almost 20 people) with the exception of 1 person ever go down to GW and I know the sales haven't been good based on what the manager has said months ago. I don't want to lose the store but right now the place is toxic.

Verm1s
18-08-2012, 07:47
The final straw, however, came today when he called out one of my friends on facebook for not coming to the shop after posting on the facebook page two days before hand that he was looking for a game (being yesterday). Now I messaged said person well before the manager replied on the local indie store page because my friend also players there and we agreed to play at the indie store well before the manager posted a reply on facebook that someone was there to play a game (5 hours before my friend had said he was free) The manager had the nerve today to post a guilt trip message calling my friend out (by name) on the facebook site wanting to know why he didn't show up and how there were people waiting to play him (again 5 hours prior to when my friend said he was free) and what gives for ditching (paraphrase, but you get the gist, it was not a kind hearted message).

The manager posted on the facebook page about my friend who'd posted on the facebook page two days previously about who was posting on the facebook page so I posted on the facebook page asking why he posted on the facebook page that time about who was posting on the facebook page arglebarglebargle...

Which facebook page?

Commissar Merces
18-08-2012, 14:12
the GW one, sorry I didn't explain that very well did I?

jack da greenskin
18-08-2012, 22:02
the GW one, sorry I didn't explain that very well did I?

I understood. It was relatively confusing but I understood what you meant. Think the manager is just being a bit childish, and I'd be tempted to complain. I think verm1s is either confused by your wall of text, or thinks it was on a private facebook group, or just doesnt like facebook.

Commissar Merces
19-08-2012, 01:42
I understood. It was relatively confusing but I understood what you meant. Think the manager is just being a bit childish, and I'd be tempted to complain. I think verm1s is either confused by your wall of text, or thinks it was on a private facebook group, or just doesnt like facebook.

Thanks for that, I just can't believe something like this situation even happened.

jack da greenskin
19-08-2012, 09:29
Thanks for that, I just can't believe something like this situation even happened.

No me neither... Completely unproffessional.

Verm1s
19-08-2012, 14:27
I think verm1s is either confused by your wall of text, or thinks it was on a private facebook group, or just doesnt like facebook.

All three. :D

Although, yes. I get that the manager was being overly whiny and pushy, and I don't agree with that. I've known a couple of incidents like that myself.

Scammel
19-08-2012, 15:40
Depends on the nature of the message. If it was 'Please let us know if you're not going to be there after you said you would as it can potentially waste people's time', fair 'nuff. In a gaming club, there's little that's more frustrating. Anything more than that and he was over-stepping the mark.

shelfunit.
19-08-2012, 16:20
Depends on the nature of the message. If it was 'Please let us know if you're not going to be there after you said you would as it can potentially waste people's time', fair 'nuff. In a gaming club, there's little that's more frustrating. Anything more than that and he was over-stepping the mark.

Considering Commissar Merces said the FB message from the staffer was posted five hours before the guy said he was able to play, I'd go with it stepping over the mark.

The bearded one
19-08-2012, 17:47
Considering Commissar Merces said the FB message from the staffer was posted five hours before the guy said he was able to play, I'd go with it stepping over the mark.

Or he forgot/was mistaken in the time. If person A said he'd be there on day Y at hour X, and then the staffer asks at hour X-5 why he isn't there, you can assume;
A) the staffer forgot person A said he'd be there on day Y at hour X, and is informing where he is.
B) the staffer forgot person A said he'd be there on day Y at hour X, and is playing the guilttrip card
C) the staffer is an ass who's pushing person A to be there 5 hours earlier, and is playing the guilttrip card, to get him to the store (for whatever nefarious purpose?)

Purposely guilttripping to get him to the store 5 hours earlier? What the heck is that?

"Grumble! You said you'd be here this afternoon, why are you still having breakfast?!"

Lord Dan
19-08-2012, 19:52
Or he forgot/was mistaken in the time. If person A said he'd be there on day Y at hour X, and then the staffer asks at hour X-5 why he isn't there, you can assume;
A) the staffer forgot person A said he'd be there on day Y at hour X, and is informing where he is.
B) the staffer forgot person A said he'd be there on day Y at hour X, and is playing the guilttrip card
C) the staffer is an ass who's pushing person A to be there 5 hours earlier, and is playing the guilttrip card, to get him to the store (for whatever nefarious purpose?)

Purposely guilttripping to get him to the store 5 hours earlier? What the heck is that?

"Grumble! You said you'd be here this afternoon, why are you still having breakfast?!"

That's some crazy algebra there, buddy!

The bearded one
19-08-2012, 20:01
That's some crazy algebra there, buddy!

A good thing it's multiple choice :p

Commissar Merces
19-08-2012, 22:57
Or he forgot/was mistaken in the time. If person A said he'd be there on day Y at hour X, and then the staffer asks at hour X-5 why he isn't there, you can assume;
A) the staffer forgot person A said he'd be there on day Y at hour X, and is informing where he is.
B) the staffer forgot person A said he'd be there on day Y at hour X, and is playing the guilttrip card
C) the staffer is an ass who's pushing person A to be there 5 hours earlier, and is playing the guilttrip card, to get him to the store (for whatever nefarious purpose?)

Purposely guilttripping to get him to the store 5 hours earlier? What the heck is that?

"Grumble! You said you'd be here this afternoon, why are you still having breakfast?!"

Yeah no. The post my friend made is literally right below the one he made on the Facebook page. This isn't the first time the manager has called out costumers (well former costumers now).


His exact message was Hey (blanked out name) we didn't see you at the shop yesterday for the game you requested yesterday. We had a few people waiting to play you so what's up?

My friends initial post was "can anyone play a game tomorrow at 530?". Not really a request and no one responded to his message except the manager.

Again, this isn't the first time something like this has happened as I went to a different store for the 6th Ed release And got some crap for not supporting the GW store from the manager. Thing is I would, but he has killed any enthusiasm with his insults and overly pushy sales tactics. I remember another one of my mates came in to see what the fuss was all about and after the manager made a comment about his models being a little "naked" because his army wasn't fully painted hasn't been back since.

It's really sad because my location deserves a store... There is a huge gaming community but I fear we will lose our GW store shortly and it isn't because of the location... It's because of a manager

Lord Dan
19-08-2012, 23:08
That's actually not so bad, Commissar. I thought it was something along the lines of "WTF DUDE??!! You weren't HEEEERRRREEE@!!!!!", but it actually just looks like a poorly worded attempt at reaching out to your friend. I think he could have phrased himself better, such as:

"Hey [name], sorry we missed you yesterday! We had a few people show up for what turned out to be some games, and wished you could have joined in. Hope to see you soon!"

Again, I wouldn't read too much into it. He doesn't sound too eloquent, but the intent is obviously there.

Commissar Merces
19-08-2012, 23:16
That's actually not so bad, Commissar. I thought it was something along the lines of "WTF DUDE??!! You weren't HEEEERRRREEE@!!!!!", but it actually just looks like a poorly worded attempt at reaching out to your friend. I think he could have phrased himself better, such as:

"Hey [name], sorry we missed you yesterday! We had a few people show up for what turned out to be some games, and wished you could have joined in. Hope to see you soon!".

Again, I wouldn't read too much into it. He doesn't sound too eloquent, but the intent is obviously there.

Perhaps I am reading a bit much into it as he has been pretty offensive the past couple of months. He is extremely passive aggressive. Maybe I am just paranoid after he admitted to be following my actives at the local indie store...

The bearded one
19-08-2012, 23:41
That kinda sounds worth being paranoid about.
.. or it's just a stalker.


This thread makes me all the more happy the previous and current managers are nice guys, who like having a nice community. One of the first things the new manager did, to facilitate gaming at the store, was push for getting extra tablesurface, and started building a new 40K table on which it is easier to game (it's modular, the previous one was cool, but glued into place).

shelfunit.
20-08-2012, 05:52
Speaking of which TBO - how is your new manager working out?

The bearded one
20-08-2012, 17:09
Speaking of which TBO - how is your new manager working out?

Quite well. He was a staffer at the store, and managed to get the job, and pretty much the first thing on his list, is to add 2' x 4' in tablespace, to turn one of the 4-plate tables into a permanent 6-plate one. He likes having people playing games in the store. Free advertisement to passerby's, basically, and it works out well for people to game there.

Plus he's a friend. When he was still a staffer we found out he lived like 2 streets away from me. In other words.. "I know where he lives" :evilgrin:

shelfunit.
20-08-2012, 17:22
Quite well. He was a staffer at the store, and managed to get the job, and pretty much the first thing on his list, is to add 2' x 4' in tablespace, to turn one of the 4-plate tables into a permanent 6-plate one. He likes having people playing games in the store. Free advertisement to passerby's, basically, and it works out well for people to game there.

Plus he's a friend. When he was still a staffer we found out he lived like 2 streets away from me. In other words.. "I know where he lives" :evilgrin:

Well that's ok then - I thought you said he was a "non-local". If he was essentially part of the staff anyway it doesn't really count :p

The bearded one
20-08-2012, 17:35
Well that's ok then - I thought you said he was a "non-local". If he was essentially part of the staff anyway it doesn't really count :p

Non-local? I can't recall saying that :) He's pretty darn local :D There were lots of other applications from non-locals though, including some people from Belgium and England.

Commissar Merces
22-08-2012, 15:38
Alright before anyone goes and accuses me of any wrong doing, I woke up this morning to find all the leaked WD pictures of Dark Vengeance splattered on the GW FB page from a poster. Other posters commented that they could already purchase the boxed set online or pre-order from other stores as well as posts mocking the manager

I don't know how much trouble the manager is going to get in, but those are serious problems. I hope the manager doesn't get fired, but it is pretty obvious that a lot of people are discontent with his managing. I actually feel bad for the amount of clean up he is going to have to do. I am torn. While I am not involved in this (thank god) I hope the manager realizes that there are some pretty hurt feelings in the community. I can't say I disapprove of people voicing displeasure, but the way they are doing it isn't right.

paddyalexander
22-08-2012, 16:39
The thing to remember is that this policy is not the managers but the companies. Punishing a lowly store manager for the incompetence of the corperate policy makers isn't very nice (even if he is a jerk).

Mastodon
22-08-2012, 20:37
Alright before anyone goes and accuses me of any wrong doing, I woke up this morning to find all the leaked WD pictures of Dark Vengeance splattered on the GW FB page from a poster. Other posters commented that they could already purchase the boxed set online or pre-order from other stores as well as posts mocking the manager

I don't know how much trouble the manager is going to get in, but those are serious problems. I hope the manager doesn't get fired, but it is pretty obvious that a lot of people are discontent with his managing. I actually feel bad for the amount of clean up he is going to have to do. I am torn. While I am not involved in this (thank god) I hope the manager realizes that there are some pretty hurt feelings in the community. I can't say I disapprove of people voicing displeasure, but the way they are doing it isn't right.

All that will happen is the posts will be deleted, the users banned from the facebook page and likely banned from the store if they continue to be idiots. It will be their loss in the long run.