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Rybo5000
10-08-2012, 03:12
I love the models you can see on Forge World but I'm confused as to their purpose?

Can they be used in games? I'd assume not since I don't recognise any of them as units?

Are they simply cool things to assemble and paint?

Apologies if this thread is in the wrong place, wasn't sure where to put it.

AngelofSorrow
10-08-2012, 03:33
You sir have opened the gates to hell!!

Yes FW units do have rules and are fully compatible with warhammer 40k and Fantasy. I encourage their use personally. The rules for such units are found in the imperial armor and warhammer forge books that they produce.
Use them and have fun.


Ready for eternal war!

Rybo5000
10-08-2012, 03:37
You sir have opened the gates to hell!!

Yes FW units do have rules and are fully compatible with warhammer 40k and Fantasy. I encourage their use personally. The rules for such units are found in the imperial armor and warhammer forge books that they produce.
Use them and have fun.

Wow that's awesome, are they generally accepted in games? (Such as at Games Workshop tournaments or such)

AngelofSorrow
10-08-2012, 03:47
Tournaments have their own set of rules as to what they do and do not allow.

However in friendly play they are just as much a part of the game as any codex units where i come from. Use them and educate anyone who is unfamiliar with the units. If they don't want you using the units find someone else to play. It all depends on the attitudes of players in your area. If you start using them you may start a trend.


Ready for eternal war!

amazingdev2005
10-08-2012, 03:58
Forge World exists to make us happy and our wallets unhappy.

TornadoCreator
10-08-2012, 04:27
Wow that's awesome, are they generally accepted in games? (Such as at Games Workshop tournaments or such)

Forgeworld minis are officially sactioned GW minis, and all there books are GW approved so they're legal in any Games Workshop tournament that doesn't specifically state it has army restrictions (ie. narrative campaigns). This includes using the Chaos Host rules to combine Beastmen, Warriors, and Daemons into one army; combining Chaos Dwarves and Warriors of Chaos under the Legion Of Azgorh rules; or if you really wanted to you could do both and have a true rainbow coalition of Chaos. Word of warning though the Forgeworld stuff, while nice to look at is generally underpowered.

Hendarion
10-08-2012, 08:01
I love the models you can see on Forge World but I'm confused as to their purpose?
Buy, assemble, paint, play and most importantly: Love and adore!


Can they be used in games?
Yes. In private games at any time as the models and units are officially WHFB/WH40K approved. Tournaments have their own rules and therefore may or may not allow them. Also at least in 40k there is the "Apocalypse only" restriction for some of the larger and heftier units like gargantuan creatures and super heavy tanks. The rules, as previously mentioned, can be found in the books which ForgeWorld sells as well. Not all book contain all units though, be sure to check the table of content before buying them blindly (unless you're rich in which case they will at least be a good read and a nice reference in case your opponent may field them).


I'd assume not since I don't recognise any of them as units?
Some of them are units. Some of them are single monsters, characters or vehicles. Some are just upgrade- or conversion-kits and not even complete models as such.


Are they simply cool things to assemble and paint?
No. See above. You can use them as such, but you don't need to.

xxRavenxx
10-08-2012, 08:40
I feel there is a lot of misinformation here.

While many do like forgeworlds rules, an equal amount do not.

Check with your local guys and see what THEY do. That is what is most important. Don't try and bring FW to them if they don't like it, don't try and convince them to hate it if they do.

This (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?347837-More-acceptance-for-Forgeworld-in-6th) thread, which got locked for going on and on, shows how much people disagree over the "legality" of FW.


ps. Lets not repeat that thread...

dral
10-08-2012, 19:36
This includes using the Chaos Host rules to combine Beastmen, Warriors, and Daemons into one army; combining Chaos Dwarves and Warriors of Chaos under the Legion Of Azgorh rules; or if you really wanted to you could do both and have a true rainbow coalition of Chaos. Word of warning though the Forgeworld stuff, while nice to look at is generally underpowered..

I really like the sound of a chaos army following a single god, but couldn't see anything on their website, where can I get the rules from?

Jind_Singh
11-08-2012, 02:47
I like the Forge World stuff - it's a smart move, make stuff that they know people want but can't afford to put out world wide as then they need to stock stores, etc - were at FW they just make what is ordered.

Otherwise we'd never see some of the crazier models!

As for gameplay - too bad the stuff isn't so widely accepted - like the new giant squig and idol of gork - hardly game breaking, too bad we can't use them in official tournaments as it would be ace to have a massive squig for my night goblin army!

as for friendly play - mostly fine so long as the unit isn't too abusive I suppose - but have you seen some of the abuse that comes through NORMAL 40k/Warhammer books anyway?!

If someone has taken the time to order, build, and paint an expensive model I am all for playing against it - so long as I can pick it up and have a really good look at it!!

Yodhrin
12-08-2012, 17:30
I feel there is a lot of misinformation here.

While many do like forgeworlds rules, an equal amount do not.

Check with your local guys and see what THEY do. That is what is most important. Don't try and bring FW to them if they don't like it, don't try and convince them to hate it if they do.

This (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?347837-More-acceptance-for-Forgeworld-in-6th) thread, which got locked for going on and on, shows how much people disagree over the "legality" of FW.


ps. Lets not repeat that thread...

"This is what I think, here is another place where I said it. Oh and PS, you're not allowed to put forward the other PoV."

Yeah, no chance mate, especially seeing as you conveniently forget to mention here that pretty much your only valid reason to be anti-FW is that it doesn't make you money(which has no bearing on the validity of the rules themselves).

OP: Any FW unit from the IA books which has the Warhammer/Warhammer 40k Approved stamp is an official unit, every bit as valid from GW's PoV as any other part of your codex. This doesn't stop some unreasonable, bitter("MY army doesn't get as much FW units as YOUR army, so I won't play you!"), or selfish/capitalist(see above) people from refusing to play you if you use them. I would submit that you should probably just file such people in the "totally incompatible, don't bother playing" drawer and ask someone else for a game.

ForgottenLore
12-08-2012, 18:02
That isn't really fair to Raven. While I disagree with his position pretty much 100%, it is dishonest to pretend that there is no controversy surrounding FW rules and that is what several of the replies before his were doing. Raven's post was very calm and reasoned:


"It isn't as clear cut as some have said"
"There are two sides to the issue"
"The most important thing is to find out what the people you actually play with think"
"There was just recently another thread on this subject, here it is if you want to read some of the arguments"

In point of fact, Raven didn't even mention his feelings on the subject in his post in this thread.

Again, while I disagree with Raven on this subject, his posts have pretty much always struck me as attempting to be unbiased and present rational, fact based arguments and to jump up and down on him for that strikes me as very rude and spectacularly unhelpful.


@Rybo5000 - As for your question. There is still a fair amount of controversy surrounding Forgeworld's rules but the trend is toward greater acceptance. Most of their non-super heavy rules are now labeled with an "official 40K" stamp, which should be good enough for most people, but like Raven said, check with the people you play with, it's THEIR opinions that are important to you, not ours. And just so you can understand WHY the whole thing is an issue, a little history lesson. Forgeworld originally just produced cool models, mostly super heavy tanks and specialty things like fuel trucks and large scale collector's statues and such, things that weren't really meant to be used in "regular" games. That created an impression that FW were intended for modelers and hard core hobbyists and not "regular" gamers. Then they started making variations on existing units, cool models that used existing GW rules, then they started to produce "new" units and write their own rules for them, but some old timers are still stuck on the idea that FW means "unofficial". That is changing though and most people probably won't bat an eye at FW stuff anymore, except maybe in some tournaments.

t-tauri
12-08-2012, 18:06
Let's not reopen the "Yes, it is. No, it isn't." thread here or I will delete the offending posts and issue warnings.

t-tauri

The Warseer Inquisition

yabbadabba
12-08-2012, 18:21
Forgeworld was established after Tom Kirby visited the Tokyo Toy Fair and noticed how quickly the good quality resin kits sold. He felt there was a potential gap in the market and Tony Cotteril got the department up and running. The initial business brief was simple;
They had a global sales opportunity but could not sell through GW stores (although there was an initial scheme to sell stuff through so called "flagship" stores)
They could not make anything that infringed on the Group Design Studios areas of control, and that included rules design
They were to make display pieces, not playing pieces - hence why right at the beginning there were lots of busts, large scale models etc.

Tony's a treadhead, so he started making tanks. Imperial Guard at first. Obviously customers loved it, but didn't have any rules. GS were not going to write any rules "formally" so eventually FW wrote their own. There was quite a bit of tension around this within GW but eventually, as we all know, FW dropped its busts etc and focused on making models with rules - again primarily 40K because I assume its what Tony prefers and it sells better keeping FW out of the firing line for any department closures.

This is the important bit. Forget everything people say on here about what is official and what is not, its all horseradish. All that is important is that you identify where you do the majority of your gaming if you are a player, and what they think of using FW in games. Nothing else matters, even if GW came out with a statement, it still wouldn't matter. Only what you and your local gaming environment is happy with matters.

Of course if you don't play and just paint/model then there are no issues! Have fun :D

shelfunit.
12-08-2012, 18:54
Nice historical summary there Yabba.

Easy E
14-08-2012, 15:41
I've always been a bit puzzled why for certain lines (Such as Aeronautica Imperialis) there is ZERO insentive for a store to carry it and sell it.

Seems a bit limiting, but perhaps they simply do not have the facilities to supply such a manufacturing feat?

xxRavenxx
14-08-2012, 18:16
Seems a bit limiting, but perhaps they simply do not have the facilities to supply such a manufacturing feat?

Its more than that.

Forgeworld have say... 10 of every tank made (random made up number). They ship and then replace any ordered.

If they put it in stores, they need say, 5 for every store, and have to have say, 50 in the warehouse in case of orders. Plus they have to package it all up. It becomes a much bigger job.

yabbadabba
14-08-2012, 18:17
Nice historical summary there Yabba. Cheers mate.

jack da greenskin
14-08-2012, 19:37
Forge world will continue to exist to give customers a more limited, and thus rare and sought after, but cheaper alternative for several models lines GW make.

DailyWaagh
14-08-2012, 20:05
but why they don't offer paypal or something :/... that is so stupid for customers from outside the uk...

yabbadabba
14-08-2012, 20:09
but why they don't offer paypal or something :/... that is so stupid for customers from outside the uk... I think it is down to a few reasons centred around how PayPal operate, including charges.

Hendarion
15-08-2012, 05:50
Paypal fees are just sick. I hate to offer paypal on my own eBay-auctions, because of the fees. However, I don't see any difference for UK or non-UK customers, they both have to use debit/credit cards. I also would prefer if Forge World would offer something else or sell on Amazon marketplace for example, but it's not gonna happen.

Fizzy
15-08-2012, 05:55
Not really. I live outside UK. I pay with my card without any problems. Just bought a warhound titan as well. I think I have bought stuff for almost 8000 on that site with card. No problem at all.

EDIT: Yes the fees are sick. Just found out on Ebay fee's as well. 28 dollars due to tomorrow for selling some small things.