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AlphariusOmegon20
12-08-2012, 00:08
I can't think of EVER seeing one of these threads about Orks. I think it might be fun to have this discussion, about what we'd like in the next book and what changes we'd like made, considering we're the one of the last few 4th ed books out there.

I'd personally like to see:

1.) a distinction between the clans themselves, perhaps bonuses, much like Chaos gets for their marks. I think basing it on the colors of Ork belief might be a idea. I think it would really only work for vehicles though.

We already have red paint Job, which adds movement. Blue could add a 6+ invul to the vehicle's save (blue being the "lucky" color, according to Orks.) "Shootier" is Yellow, so I could envision one weapon on the vehicle being allowed to shoot twice a turn ( Owner's choice. I'd add the limitation of not being able to be placed on a waaagh! vehicle, like a dakkajet. They already get the benefit once a game anyways.), but being chosen at the beginning of the game when the upgrade is paid for. A black paint job would represent a "harder" vehicle, which could get +1 Av on all it's sides (up to Av 14.) Purple is the "sneakiest" color, so that would grant maybe scouts to the vehicle. (I'd reserve it for looted wagons personally. Seem to fit more with the Blood Axe line of thinking.)

I don't think that with the new 6th ed rules, any of these would be OP in any way.



2.) I'd like to see a distinction between the Deffguns that Lootas carry. The Loota box currently has 2 "Big Shoota" types of Deffguns, a "Zzap" Deffun and a Plasma style deffgun. There should be a difference between them, in what they do and their stats.



3.) Burna Boyz and Tankbustas to have a Trukk option! I understand WHY Lootas and Flash Gitz don't have it, they're long range units. But Burnas and Tankbustas are assault units, it would be nice to have some sort of transport to get them there somewhat safely.



4.) Nazdreg needs to come back! We need a Bad Moon WARBOSS Special Character, plus Nazdreg's fairly iconic within the universe, almost as much as Ghazghkull is. I think trading off Badrukk for Nazdreg would be a good trade.



5.) Lose Snikkrot in exchange for Warboss Blacktoof, the Overfiend of Octarius. If we're going to have a Blood Axe in the book, you might as well make them a Warboss.



6.) I'd like to see a Mek SC, preferably a Deathskull personally. Seems like that's missing from the book. Yes, I know Wazdakka's a mek, but he really doesn't feel like one. He feels more like a Warboss than anything.



7.) New Warbuggies and Wartrakks!!! Make them look like the buggy and trakk drawings in IA8 (sort of sand rail looking.)

That's all I have for now. What's your ideas???

Lord Byte
12-08-2012, 01:19
1) A re-roll on the damage result table might be more balanced for blue, and yellow allows you to fire one weapon at normal bs when moving?
2) I think that would be rather annoying, as the least distinction would be differing weapon ranges.
3) I'd like this very much! Or at least allow us to buy trukz as Fast attack as before (we'll have to load up the trukk first round, but get to load them with ANYTHING, as you can still do if you drop off your boyz! :)
7) Would be nice, then again it'll probably be Finecast again :(

Chem-Dog
12-08-2012, 02:46
I can't think of EVER seeing one of these threads about Orks.

Possibly because the Ork players amongst us are quite content with what is still a competitive Codex. :)

Here's what I'd like to see:-

Warbosses made to be scarier and a better alternative to the Meks I always seem to see.

Clan representation should be cool, but only if it's totally divorced from specific unit types, the only thing preventing me from building an all-biker Snakebites army should be the inherent fluff wrongness, not a silly list of which clan brings what to a fight. Needless to say I would not want to see SC's unlocking a specific clan theme.
With a little bit of cleverness it could be possible to reflect some of the more prominent types of Freebootaz in the same way, that or a Freeboota Kaptin should be an alternative army Leader option.

Some of the units that have fallen by the wayside would be more than welcome to return, Madboyz, Cyboars and Skarboyz could all be reintroduced (and probably a lot more I've forgotten to mention).

Gyro Stabilised Mono Wheel. The single most epic invention in 40K needs to return.

Oh. And I would dearly love for the Ork "power of belief" thing to go away.

MajorWesJanson
12-08-2012, 05:00
I'm going to wishlist/comment based on these rumors:

201x range
Ork Warbuggy / Deff Racer Plastic- box (buggy size)
Shooty buggies and Assaulty buggies?

Ork Deff Koptas Plastic- box (bike squadron size)
All the weapon options?

Ork Gun Fortress / Mega Tellyporta Plastic- box (land raider size)
Hopefully an ork version of the Skysheild landing pad combined with a smaller Fortress of Redemption

Ork Meganobz / Painboy Cyborks Plastic- box (infantry size)
Hopefully a 5 model box. Maybe shared legs and arms, with Meganobz having armored torsos?

Ork Flying Fortress / Rokk Launcha Plastic- box (land raider size)
Bigger flier?

Ork Wartrakk Skorcha / Flakk Trakk Plastic- box (buggy size)
Good place for the flakktrakk. Makes Fast attack more competitive

Ork Big Guns / Pulsa Launchas Plastic- box (bike squadron size)
Pulsa rokkets are back! Maybe have the strikedown/concussive rules? Makes terrain difficult/dangerous like the Thunderfire cannon can?

Ork Flash Gitz / Tellyporta Nobz Plastic- box (infantry size)
Makes Flash Gitz into nob variants. Hopefully the Flashgitz will move to Elites, Lootas to Heavy Support, and These Tellyporta Nobz FA as the ork version of jump troop vets. Maybe have a shunt move like GK Interceptors, but d3 dissappear when they do?

Ork Klan Fort Plastic- box (land raider size)
Hopefully Bastion sized. Ork Terrain!

Ork Boar Squigs Finecast- box (07 size)
Attack Squig unit essentially?

Ork Squiggotaur Finecast- box (09 size) - divergent affixes: mf
Bigger Squig critter?

Ork Warphead Finecast- clamshell
New model and hopefully a better table for powers.

Ork Painboy with Cleava Harness Finecast- clamshell
Painboyz getting more attention.

Ork Grot Nurses Finecast- clamshell
Upgrade grots for painboyz? maybe for rerolls of something like ammo grots?

Wazzdakka Gutsmek Finecast- clamshell
Bout time he got a model. Still, I use the FW Boss on bike, so hopefully it is comparable. Wonder what sized base?

Gorbuzz ThreeEye Finecast- clamshell
New Character?

Gritlegg Maksmesh Finecast- clamshell
Sounds like a named Big Mek to me.

Boss-Kommissa Grotzki Finecast- clamshell
Blood Axe character? Maybe makes allies with IG easier?

onidemon
12-08-2012, 05:02
Possibly because the Ork players amongst us are quite content with what is still a competitive Codex. :)

And we fluffy bunny types are pretty happy with it too; it gives a lot of room for converting and making interesting and themed armies.

Plus, we'ze Orkzes, we don't need nuffink but a choppa and a few shells for the shoota. And, you know, more then twelve of uz...


That said, that "leaked" release list contains a lot of the types of new toys I'd love to see Orks get to play with. A fortress kit, a Telaporta base kit, a giant bomber... all of that stuff sounds fun.

I'd love to see more of the Forgeworld stuff turn into mainstream plastic kits too; who wouldn't enjoy a Grot Tank kit priced like a warbikers box?

And, as long as I'm makin' stuff up:

Ork Transport Warkopters - Flying Trucks! Delight your friends with "Flight of the Valkyries" as you reenact your favorite Vietnam movies.
Parachute droppable orks!
Blood-axe conversion parts!
Kustomizable waaagh banners!
Grot snipers!
Dedicated Ork tanks like the olden days of Epic, with integral Deff-Rolla and Kannon turret but no transport capacity.
Rules for orks riding on the surface of said tanks, complete with spare legs being sold that allow you to glue crew riding on the tank.
Rebel Grotz as a playable faction, with Rebel Grot HQ choices.
Clan rules that give the various Clans unique bonuses when you theme an entire army around them.

Oh, and as long as I'm dreaming:

Front Armor 12 Looted Wagons.

And, of course, maybe a larger dose of the insanely powerful but unpredictable Ork Supa' Science. The Shokk Attack Gun was a great start, but how about Bubble-chuckaz, and Lifta-Droppaz? Hop-Splat Kannonz? Buzzer-Squig pot throwers that cause a swarm of stinging squigs to buzz around the board, hitting ork and foe alike?


Oh. And I would dearly love for the Ork "power of belief" thing to go away.

I'm totally with Chem-Dog on this one - it was cute when they first introduced it, but much like the Eldar calling everyone a "Mon-Keigh", it's a joke that wears thin. I know it helps explain why on earth the clunky and unlikely ork war machines work, but I much prefer that in the background universe this idea be not so much literal, but an example of Imperial Adeptus Mechanicus religious dogma. After all, it is impossible for the Xeno to have a greater understanding of force field, tractor beam, and even titan technology than the venerated saints of the almighty machine god... so it must be "primitive psychic magic" that allows them such mechanical mastery.

MajorWesJanson
12-08-2012, 05:29
That is the one area where I would love to see a major change- the Looted Tank.

Make it an actual looted vehicle. Say you start out choosing a looted hull- Rhino (11/11/10) with 10 transport for 35 points, Chimaera (12/10/10) with 12 transport for 50 points), Land Raider (13/13/13) with 16 transport for 120 points, Russ (13/12/10) with no transport for 100 points, then you can buy the usual Ork upgrades, and weapons. big shootas and rokket launchas only for the transports, Kannons, Big Zappas, Lobbas for the Raider and Russ, and Kill Kannons and Shokk Attack gun for the Russ turret.

Mozzamanx
12-08-2012, 08:41
I'd like the Waaagh! to play more of a part in the game. While Fleet is certainly nice, it should be the pivotal moment of the battle and be capable of turning it around. Exactly how I'd do this, no idea at all. But something would be nice, perhaps an aura around your Warlord.

Warboss should get a couple of extra Waaagh! bonuses if they are the Warlord. Maybe his unit can get Preferred Enemy for the turn, or Rage.
Mek gets new gear. Craaaazy gear. Pulsas, Liftas, Zappas etc.
Return of the Painboss as a HQ choice. We would then have 4 genuine options: Warboss for krumpin' and extra deadly Waaaagh!, Mek brings all his funky toys, Painboss keeps the infantry going and the Weirdboy is unpredictably devastating.

Klans could be nice but I would limit their application to tanks and the Warlord. Just make it a very cheap upgrade with a minor effect. For example, Goff could give +1WS but make challenges mandatory. Deff Skulls perhaps reroll a single D6 per turn, while the vehicle upgrade would be a 6++.

Greatly expanded weapon options. Getting a bit tired of Big Shootas and Power Klaws! Fun things, like Tankhammers as a 'special weapon' for Sluggas. 'Boomhammer' being a mine on a stick, maybe being S7 AP3 with a melee version of 'Gets Hot'. Just something to expand the toys available.
On that note, Shootas are currently better than Sluggas. I would therefore either increase Shootas to 7pts, or reduce Sluggas to 5pts. Honestly, probably the former if the Waaagh! is improved.

Skarboys reintroduced as the aggressive counterpart to 'Ard Boyz. Probably a Troop choice with S4 and remove all the shooty weapon options with more access to the combat ones. Maybe an upgrade to 'Murderboyz' for Rending?

Introduce Boarboyz as an upgrade for Warbikes. Trade in your Dakkagunz and Cover saves for the speed increase and Rage. Perhaps throw in the Squiggoth while we're at it.

New Buggy models! New Meganobz!

More access to vehicles. I love the idea of an Armoured Krumpany but cannot do one properly without Forge World access. Introduce Guntrukks as a spammable artillery option. Big Trakks as the standard AV12, basically being a toned down Battlewagon. I'd love to see Grot Tanks but its not quite so important IMO.

Tarax
12-08-2012, 09:54
Warbosses made to be scarier and a better alternative to the Meks I always seem to see.

It's the Kustom Force Field that does it. That should change, maybe range 12", but only models within that range gets the benefit? And make Warbosses better so they will be chosen sooner over Big


Clan representation should be cool, but only if it's totally divorced from specific unit types, the only thing preventing me from building an all-biker Snakebites army should be the inherent fluff wrongness, not a silly list of which clan brings what to a fight. Needless to say I would not want to see SC's unlocking a specific clan theme.
With a little bit of cleverness it could be possible to reflect some of the more prominent types of Freebootaz in the same way, that or a Freeboota Kaptin should be an alternative army Leader option.

Much like Space Marines, I'd like to see possible upgrades for your Warboss to represent a certain clan and some special rule to go with it. (SM now have it with SCs, but I'd like to see that more generally with normal characters (ie captains and chapter masters).)


Some of the units that have fallen by the wayside would be more than welcome to return, Madboyz, Cyboars and Skarboyz could all be reintroduced (and probably a lot more I've forgotten to mention).

Gyro Stabilised Mono Wheel. The single most epic invention in 40K needs to return.

Oh. And I would dearly love for the Ork "power of belief" thing to go away.

Can't remember what a Madboy was (assistent to Weirdboy?), but a return of the cyboar would be great. Or at least Ork cavalry. :D (joy)

nosebiter
12-08-2012, 10:11
New buggies and wartraks would be cool.

Plastic meganobz with rules to still make them dead ard, but different and more orky!

Lootas with different gunz and a toned down deffgun, just a bit too good. Would create more diverse orky forces other then nob bikers and loota spam.

Grot vehicles! Adore the grot tanks from FW

Warkopta in plastic

More varied and orky shooting and cc weapons.

Return of clans!

Born Again
12-08-2012, 13:05
I can't think of EVER seeing one of these threads about Orks. I think it might be fun to have this discussion, about what we'd like in the next book and what changes we'd like made, considering we're the one of the last few 4th ed books out there.

I'd personally like to see:

1.) a distinction between the clans themselves, perhaps bonuses, much like Chaos gets for their marks. I think basing it on the colors of Ork belief might be a idea. I think it would really only work for vehicles though.

We already have red paint Job, which adds movement. Blue could add a 6+ invul to the vehicle's save (blue being the "lucky" color, according to Orks.) "Shootier" is Yellow, so I could envision one weapon on the vehicle being allowed to shoot twice a turn ( Owner's choice. I'd add the limitation of not being able to be placed on a waaagh! vehicle, like a dakkajet. They already get the benefit once a game anyways.), but being chosen at the beginning of the game when the upgrade is paid for. A black paint job would represent a "harder" vehicle, which could get +1 Av on all it's sides (up to Av 14.) Purple is the "sneakiest" color, so that would grant maybe scouts to the vehicle. (I'd reserve it for looted wagons personally. Seem to fit more with the Blood Axe line of thinking.)


I can see the blue one, as blue is noted as being considered a lucky colour, but the rest not so much. As far as I'm aware it's never been noted that orks consider yellow to make things 'shootier', you're confusing beliefs tied to the colours with characteristics of the klans and their related colours - ie; Bad Moonz wear yellow, and can afford shootier guns as their teeth grow faster. Yellow itself doesn't make it shootier.

The absolute #1 thing on my wishlist that I will be extremely upset about if it doesn't eventuate, is Squig Rider Cavalry!

TheDungen
12-08-2012, 13:10
drop the biker warboss special char (or well keep him the second part is the most important) and make bikers troops if you mount your warboss on a bike.

Martian Kiwi
12-08-2012, 16:21
I would love to see kamikaze units. Explosives strap everywhere, mass template scattering every directions.

Or vehicles with big fuel tanks!

Fireworks!!!!

All Cing Eye
12-08-2012, 17:02
Like most Ork players I am pretty happy with the current models and book. The rumoured 2013 models also sound great (finally a new warbuggy).

As far as what I want to see:

1. More Warboss SC's. I want to be able to field Nazdreg again, and I would love to see a Snagrod model.

2. The ability to field an all Grot army

3. A proper Ork tank, like the ones from Epic 40k

Inquisitor Kallus
12-08-2012, 17:26
Klans, with small simple little extra bonuses and restrictions/negatives.

Spleenrippas, gutrippas, bowel-burnas, gobsmashas (saw one of these in the design studio about 6-6 years ago in Jes' cabinet along with some other ork vehicles it looked like a multi-part set-up), braincrushas, lungburstas, Giblet-grindas, skull-hammas, Ork Gargants, plastic Squiggoths, Mad Boyz, Klan upgrade kits, Snakebite related stuff, Grot Sniperz...

Inquisitor Kallus
12-08-2012, 17:40
Or maybe like previous people have said, the klans get a mark like chaos.

Goff +1 I or Hatred (everyone)
Bad Moons (preferred enemy/re-roll to hit: shooting)
Blood Axes (scout)
Snakebites (war paint 5+/6+ inv)
Deathskulls (5+/6+ inv lucky save

Warlords could even have their own klan specific tables etc

Chem-Dog
12-08-2012, 17:52
Much like Space Marines, I'd like to see possible upgrades for your Warboss to represent a certain clan and some special rule to go with it. (SM now have it with SCs, but I'd like to see that more generally with normal characters (ie captains and chapter masters).)

We already have the bare bones of it in the Ork and Space Marine Codexes. Warboss troops-up a Nobs mob, Mek troops-up a Deffdread, Bike Captain does the same for Bike squads and MotF has a similar effect on dreads. It's do-able without having to tack on Detective Professor McUberkill.
If you're going to attach it to a Warboss, specifically named Boss Poles and/or Glyphs could be an easy way of doing it, a Goff Bosspole or a Blood Axe Glyph with associated perk effects. But I definitely would prefer more of a Space Wolf Saga style boost than anything restrictive like Coteaz Henchmen.




Can't remember what a Madboy was (assistent to Weirdboy?), but a return of the cyboar would be great. Or at least Ork cavalry. :D (joy)

Madboyz were just that, Orks that were pretty unhinged, even by greenskin standards. In the older rules they had seemingly endless charts that had them doing things like congratulating enemy units on their performance, running up to enemies and shouting "BOO!" and other "wacky" stuff, later they became a psychology proof sort of unit. Weirdboy Warpheads did attract madboyz, who were too impressed by the pyrotechnics to be worried about the potential harm of associating with such individuals and unconcerned with weirdboys being "Unorky".

I could actually see Cyboars vanishing entirely in favour of some kind of squig mount, it makes more sense that, if Orks bring Squigs with them they'd use them instead of somehow managing to locate bad-tempered wild pigs.

Cap'n Shings
12-08-2012, 18:06
Nazdreg an' his Tellyportas! How cool would it be if we could deepstrike some stuff? Say a squad of 30 boyz (high risk/high reward)? Or a Deffdread?

How about some army wide special rules like the Space Marine codex? Like Snikrot getting infiltrate for the whole army?

More customisation with squad upgrades? Like Meks and Painboys instead of just Nobz? And more weapon upgrades like Burna's instead of just Big Shootas and Rokkit Launchas.

Lastly, I want to have a Stormboy Warboss. If the big guy wants to strap a giant rokkit on his back then he should be able to! It would be so cool if the Warboss and his Nobs had more options. Mega armour and bikes are cool but I want Boars and Rokkit packs too.

TheDungen
12-08-2012, 19:06
more random! and more stuff that either does great damage or blows itself up!

Stonerhino
12-08-2012, 19:51
Green Tide bonuses for total army Ork model count. Maybe even an army count unlock unit system. Like over 150 boyz (900 pts min) and you get to a discount on trukks or extra slots, heavy support/fast attack/Elite/HQ.

Scammel
12-08-2012, 20:32
Possibly because the Ork players amongst us are quite content with what is still a competitive Codex.

Pretty much my stance. Though it's falling behind against behemoths like GK and Necrons, the versatility of the book and the fact that it relies a lot on good, honest attacks/firepower as opposed to specific tricks has allowed it to keep its head held high on many an occasion. Themed lists are dead easy to make and don't require a huge degree more expansion I feel, though some cool Snakebite stuff would definitely be in order. Small adjustments across the board to bring everything in line with today's standards and not much else.

Oh, and make Nobz properly scary again. The Choppa rule doesn't have to come back, but I miss the guys who would make Terminators cry back in 3rd.

Korraz
12-08-2012, 22:18
The heart.
I want the heart back. That's pretty much all. As bad as the old codex was, it had a lot of heart. And THAT one only had half the heart of the books that came before it.

Well, that, and mass doing something. Stuff should happen if a lot of the boyz are on the field.
And more customization. Kustomization. Kustomizing stuff is one of the most important parts to Orks. But regarding that: See "more heart."

Tarax
13-08-2012, 08:37
We already have the bare bones of it in the Ork and Space Marine Codexes. Warboss troops-up a Nobs mob, Mek troops-up a Deffdread, Bike Captain does the same for Bike squads and MotF has a similar effect on dreads. It's do-able without having to tack on Detective Professor McUberkill.
If you're going to attach it to a Warboss, specifically named Boss Poles and/or Glyphs could be an easy way of doing it, a Goff Bosspole or a Blood Axe Glyph with associated perk effects. But I definitely would prefer more of a Space Wolf Saga style boost than anything restrictive like Coteaz Henchmen.

I meant more like SC giving you other chapter traits than Combat Tactics. Not opening certain units.
The Space Wolf Saga style, I approve of, like you do.


I could actually see Cyboars vanishing entirely in favour of some kind of squig mount, it makes more sense that, if Orks bring Squigs with them they'd use them instead of somehow managing to locate bad-tempered wild pigs.

Nah, Orks ride on Boars. Grots can ride Squigs.

lordbeefy
13-08-2012, 10:31
I most want the new dex to have lots of customisable options. Orks are all about randomness and variety. Make ork armies very different from each other. Base units/chasis with loads of upgrade options, that sort of thing.

Bob Hunk
13-08-2012, 13:20
I'm not sure I want a new codex really, I love this one too much. :D I think we'll have a few years to wait yet anyway, although by that time I expect we will have fallen behind the power curve so we'll be good and ready for something new.

When the time comes I'd like to see a few more wargear options for the HQs (kustom weapons, etc), maybe a slightly harder Warboss, some sort of dedicated Ork tank and a tellyporta unit (the rumoured tellyporta Nobs will do!). That's about it. Oh and Boarboyz or Squig riders.

theJ
13-08-2012, 15:29
Can't say I'm really looking forward to a new book either... newer books seem to be going in a direction I really don't want to go. I don't want six special rules per boyz squad, I don't want any silly shenanigans, I don't want "super units", and I certainly don't want the fluff treatment of recent codices...

I find a lot of the fun of using Orkz come simply doing what they're supposed to do without all the nonsense other armies bring along. If that stays, I'll remain happy... if not, I'll be very sad indeed...

Anyways, assuming they actually get it right, what kinds of additions would I like to see?
Well... Space Marine opened my eyes to the idea of Orkz with Kombat Shields... that was great - I'd love to see that make it into the next codex. Make it an option for 'ard boyz, and while you're at it, allow me to take as many mobz of 'em as I'd like.
Speaking of Space Marine... I wouldn't mind unleaching some Bomb Squigs on enemy squads either :p The current anti-tank only entry is a good start, but WAY too limited for its own good.
Further, as mentioned earlier, I shouldn't be forced to take a special character to play a biker army. A character on a bike? Sure, but not a named one.
Separating the weapon types of lootas would be nice, just don't limit 'em. I want my units to use uniform weapon types, not the silly Space Marine nonsense of having a mix of anti-tank, anti-infantry and anti-nothing-in-particular in each unit.
The earlier ideas of expanded options for commanders would be nice... IF they limit it to commanders. Again, I don't want dosens of special rules clogging up my standard mobz, and even on commanders, I don't want it forced on me. tl;dr MAKE IT OPTIONAL.

GrogDaTyrant
13-08-2012, 15:51
The heart.
I want the heart back. That's pretty much all. As bad as the old codex was, it had a lot of heart. And THAT one only had half the heart of the books that came before it.

Well, that, and mass doing something. Stuff should happen if a lot of the boyz are on the field.
And more customization. Kustomization. Kustomizing stuff is one of the most important parts to Orks. But regarding that: See "more heart."

I agree with this. The current codex is "competitive"... mainly because it goes so far against the meta of competitive environments that it takes players by surprise. But there's no heart or soul of the Orks to it. No customization (or very little of it). The extent of your army build focuses more on which units you're fielding, not what each of those units has. Every Nob sergeant is a PK+Bosspole and now with 'Eavy Armor Nob. If it's not a Nob unit or a Battlewagon, then you're lucky if the unit's option are anything beyond "some rokkits or big shootas". Hell the fact they made 3 separate cookie-cutter plane entries instead of one entry with a page's worth of options, speaks volumes about what I personally don't like about this codex. There's too much hand-holding and no customization or versatility. And of course the Clans are just a color-scheme example, and have no meaning otherwise.

I personally would like to see more unit customization and for the clans to return preferably in a manner that involves providing USRs and no required special characters (a character as terrible as Wazzdakka should not be a requirement for a bike army...). Other much needed improvements include something beyond the no-brainer PK for Nob leaders, Zzap guns getting their 2d6 armor pen back (rolling to hit was a big enough nerf), Increasing the Initiative (preferably on charge) to the point where they are no longer an "always strikes last" army once again, more vehicles, better looted wagon entry with options for chassis and a wider variety of weaponry, return of older units like Skar Boyz or Mad Boyz, removal of 0-1 on 'Ard Boyz, Warpheads/Wyrdboyz to be worth taking (wargear, moderate stats, etc.), and add in most of IA 8 including things like the Soopa-Kannons and Big Trakks.

Scammel
13-08-2012, 16:11
As much as Orks love personalisation, I'm not convinced that much of it desperately needs table-top representation and especially not with such a high-model count army. There could certainly be one or two new, clearly visible pieces of equipment and less no-brainer options, but having 7 potential confirgurations for the Shoota of every individual Nob doesn't really add much. Same goes for the Klans, certainly they have predilections for certain units over others (which is perfectly easy to do right now) but I'm not convinced there's really that much difference between a Deathskull Trukk and a Snakebite Trukk apart from the paint and the odd trophy.

Cap'n Shings
13-08-2012, 16:41
Looks like people would like to see a system that is maybe similar to the Chaos mark system? So like changes to stats?

Models with a Goff totem/glyth add 1 to their toughness.
Models with a Deathskull totem/glyth add 1 to their Armour save.

Stuff like that?

Or like like they gain USR's?

Units with a Blood Axe Glyth gain the Infiltrate special rule.
Units with a Snakebite Glyth gain the Poisoned special rule.

Scammel
13-08-2012, 16:50
Models with a Goff totem/glyth add 1 to their toughness.
Models with a Deathskull totem/glyth add 1 to their Armour save.


That's the sort of thing I don't get. There isn't enough real difference between a Goff and a Skull to warrant that kind of stat boost. The marks of the Gods represent very potent, very tangible blessings, a Goff isn't really going to be that much tougher than a Skull because their hobbies are different. Similarly, I don't think that many Blood Axes are geuinely sneaky enough to warrant Infiltrate on all their basic guys.

Cap'n Shings
13-08-2012, 16:55
That's the sort of thing I don't get. There isn't enough real difference between a Goff and a Skull to warrant that kind of stat boost. The marks of the Gods represent very potent, very tangible blessings, a Goff isn't really going to be that much tougher than a Skull because their hobbies are different. Similarly, I don't think that many Blood Axes are geuinely sneaky enough to warrant Infiltrate on all their basic guys.

Because Orks believe blue is lucky. Therefore, blue is lucky. Maybe they luckily trip as a bolter round whizzes past their head. I was going for lucky more than sneaky. Just off the top of my head examples too. What about USR's as opposed to stat increases?

Scammel
13-08-2012, 17:03
Certainly, blue is lucky, just as Red Paint grants an extra inch to movement - but it's just an extra inch, it won't make a Battlewagon 'Fast', for example. A Skull might pick up the odd extra toof once a fortnight, but it isn't going to save his life all that often if at all. Having the God of Fate whsiper the future into your ear only grants a 5++ save, even a 6++ is too much for the extra protection afforded by sheer dumb luck. I'm not opposed to Klan representation in principle, there's just not many good ways of representing them without over-blowing the differences.

MajorWesJanson
13-08-2012, 17:07
Wishlisting for boyz mobs:
Can take a trukk regardless of unit size, like other armies can.
'ard boyz upgrade to improve armor save
skar boyz upgrade to improve initative
expanded special weapon selection- per 10 models, one can take a big shoota, rokket launcha, burna, or big choppa

Korraz
13-08-2012, 17:44
That's the sort of thing I don't get. There isn't enough real difference between a Goff and a Skull to warrant that kind of stat boost. The marks of the Gods represent very potent, very tangible blessings, a Goff isn't really going to be that much tougher than a Skull because their hobbies are different. Similarly, I don't think that many Blood Axes are geuinely sneaky enough to warrant Infiltrate on all their basic guys.

And there's no real difference between an Ultramarine and a Black Templar and a Salamander, and yet, the Templars are hittier and the Salamanders are shootier.
The Klans differ at least as much as Chapters, so they should get similar boosts.

Scammel
13-08-2012, 19:06
The Klans differ at least as much as Chapters

I'm certainly of the opinion that some chapters get more representation than they derserve, but I respectfully disagree. Almost all the Klans are going to have a large number of basic Boys with more of their signature units than other armies might boast but not much more than that - not all Skulls are Lootas, not all Snakes are Boar Boyz (an omission that I certainly think should be rectified) and not all Moons are Flash Gitz. The only exception is the Sunz and you can already make a fully-mechanised army.

Korraz
13-08-2012, 20:20
And exactly the same goes for Space Marines.
If Marines can get rerolls, fleet, FA, and on and on, the same should go for Orks (and Eldar, for that matter)
At least Nobs (and everything else that's a Nob but called differently currently) should get, for example, Scouts in a Blood Axes army.

The_Klobb_Maniac
13-08-2012, 20:31
My biggest gripes with the codex are the same ones as the Eldar and Chaos because GW was going in a different direction at the time:
-The codex is too "simple"

The loss of burnas in my sluggas, some of the number reqs for big-shootas and the like seem slightly high (i'd prefer every 9 orks so I can attach an IC in a BW), and some other convenient things. I'd like the Nobz to go the way of Crypteks and Wolfguard
-Mixed armor
-Buy upgrades individually
-Split off as you wish
-MANz can BUY an invul save. I don't care if it's 10 points, give me the *option*

-I'd like some of the old flash git options back; custom shootas and such, especially on nobz and the like
-Maybe nobz to be able to carry special/heavy weapons again
-Krak nades upgrade on some units
-TB bombs for nobz as an upgrade
-Some nerf to points costs in order to make the units more competitive in combat. I'd like to be I4 on the charge so Grenades have a purpose!
-Option for a power axe on Nobz, say... 20 points. Maybe a burna option for 15-20 as well.
-I wouldn't mind seeing regrouping "mob up" shinanigans again if they were done well
-Morale could be determined by number of orks + units nearby or something. I think it's odd that morale is good if there's 30 in a mob, but not 30 in 3 mobs nearby. It'd really help trukk-boyz to be able to support eachother a bit. Not sure if there's a clean way to do it though.. *
-Kannons buffed slightly; ever so slightly. Up the point by five and give it "ordnance." Or.. add an upgrade for 10 points to re-roll pen or something.
-Runtherd options?
-Looted wagon options (maybe add +1 armor for 20 points as a re-purchasable upgrade.) Loadsa weapons allowed to be added. I'd love to buy like.. 6 big shootas!
-Maybe add "bolt-on" weapons back in.

I liked a lot of the old codex; I'd just like to be able to accurately represent looted options and have lots of ways to customize the army. I don't need toyz specifically; just the ability to mix and match units the way Orks should. Nobz not mixing with MANz seems so goofy to me and unnatural. Others can do it, we used to do it, I want it back :D


I'm still content with the codex, it's just not super-interesting. I'd like some of those old AT options and just.. stuff. Stikkbombas! Take off the Ard Boyz limit. Stuff like that. I don't even care if they're elites; just let me get more than one unit of awesome-looking-heavy-armored-sluggas so I can compete in CC if I want.

*Maybe having it be army wide. For every 20 orks on the field you get +1LD you can replace your own with. Orks start at LD 6 or so, if you have 20 = 7. 40=8,60=9,80+ =10. Fearless passed that.. or something. Then the "horde mentality" really kicks in.

Scammel
13-08-2012, 20:40
And exactly the same goes for Space Marines.
If Marines can get rerolls, fleet, FA, and on and on, the same should go for Orks (and Eldar, for that matter)

Two wrongs don't make a right. I don't care how pretty your Flamers and Meltas are, they should not be auto-wounding/auto-hitting.

Bob Hunk
13-08-2012, 21:35
I'd be more inclined to show Clan differences with FOC or unit selection changes rather than actual stat differences. :)

wanderingblade
13-08-2012, 22:14
I'd be more inclined to show Clan differences with FOC or unit selection changes rather than actual stat differences. :)

This - not that I'm an Ork player (yet anyway) - but this would be the sensible way to do it. Goffs make Skarboyz and Nobs troops choices, Bad Moons 'Ard Boyz and Flash Gitz and so on.

If you want to add further Klan Diffrentiation, I think it should be a once a game boost, rather like the Wolf Standard/Company Standard and so on is. And - I think it has to be such that non-Clan Orks are still a sensible idea to the semi-competitive player, so it shouldn't be a big boost, and it certainly can't be undercosted. But really, I think FOC is the place for it.

Scammel
13-08-2012, 22:23
This - not that I'm an Ork player (yet anyway) - but this would be the sensible way to do it. Goffs make Skarboyz and Nobs troops choices, Bad Moons 'Ard Boyz and Flash Gitz and so on.


The risk would be that you'd have lots of armies without standard Boyz, which would be something of a crime. For me a better idea might be to have a single of the appropriate unit as troops, or perhaps better, have them all as scoring but remain in their respective FoC slot.

RanaldLoec
13-08-2012, 22:40
ORK SNAKEBITE BEAST(SQUIG) MASTERS

Hordes of drooling, toothy squigs bounding across the battle field with a few runt herdz prodding them across the field.

Squiggoth squadrons because massive bad tempered mushroom monsters are awesome.

Return of ork cavalry, namely boars.

Most of all a recording of Brian Blessed shouting WAAAAAAAAGGGGHHH to play when I declare a waagh.

Gorbad Ironclaw
13-08-2012, 22:59
And exactly the same goes for Space Marines.
If Marines can get rerolls, fleet, FA, and on and on, the same should go for Orks (and Eldar, for that matter)

True, but I'd much rather it didn't applied to anybody than everybody getting a special rule based on the colour of their clothes. The worst example of specific lists like that are the old 3.5 chaos book, but the craft world book was pretty bad too I think and love no desire to see anything like that happen to Orks. I'd much rather they talked about the identity of the different clans, gave you the flexibility to represent them on the tabletop but left the whole thing up to the players with no additional mechanisms shoehorned in to attempt to do 'klans'. Its more sort of a vague cultural bend anyway. That way you can pick and choose your own vision of your favourite Klan, rather than be constrained by the 'approved GW version' of it. In an ideal world the same would happen to Space Marines, but for financial reasons it won't. But that doesn't ,mean spreading the nonsense will make 40k better.

TheBearminator
14-08-2012, 00:11
Oh. Ork wishlist. That's a big question. Will have to think for a while but I'm clear on a few things.

First of all a detail that disturbs me: Why can't my dreadnought use Waaagh?

And the more serious one: Bring back the concept of looting! How come all orks that loot something end up with a gun or tank that look completely different but works exactly the same way? Why can't I use sniper rifles and drive chimeras anymore? Come on, my orks are BS 2 and they gladly pay full price for the thrill of shooting a plasma cannon!

Chem-Dog
14-08-2012, 04:25
Goffs make Skarboyz and Nobs troops choices


Oh yeah, I'd like to see Skarboyz back in, perhaps as a rough comparison with IG Vets (better stats and access to more of the fun stuff).


If you want to add further Klan Diffrentiation, I think it should be a once a game boost, rather like the Wolf Standard/Company Standard and so on is. And - I think it has to be such that non-Clan Orks are still a sensible idea to the semi-competitive player, so it shouldn't be a big boost, and it certainly can't be undercosted. But really, I think FOC is the place for it.

Once-per game boost? Could influence how the WAAAGH! works.
Goff = Standard run-at-the-enemy style approach. Thus the default if you don't buy the appropriate add-on for the Warboss.
Bad Moonz = some kind of improved Dakka (like bladestorm or something).
Blood Axes = +1 to all reserve rolls this turn (Kunnin' Ambush!).
Deffskullz = lucky save (6+ chance to ignore any wound or pene/glancing hit).
Evil Sunz = Some kind of turboboosting improved movement to all vehicles and contraptions like bikes and deffkoptaz (possibly at the risk of incurring a glancing hit/wound).
Snakebites = Erm....Gee up horsey (!)


But, yeah. If rumours that the Chaos Marines will be fiddling about with the number of FOC slots available (rather than just swapping what goes where) hold out to be true, I could be behind FOC changing effects.


Why can't I use sniper rifles and drive chimeras anymore?

'Cause Meks can't help but tinker ;)

TheBearminator
14-08-2012, 10:01
Another thing that I've never accepted is the total remake of tank bustas. They used to be the patient and tactical guys and skilled in their line of work (tank hunters). In fith they were just a source of frustration. All the time they would try to run against and shoot tanks that were miles away, unless you provided them with a mobile wall to block their line of sight. Great game. Not.

I don't know how they work in 6th but now at least they aren't that easy to fool since they don't shoot at things they can't reach. But because ap3 is not that hot against vehicles anymore I guess they could need their tank hunting skill back.

Born Again
14-08-2012, 11:28
Yeah, seeing Skarboyz as a sort of halfway point between boyz and nobz would be good.



Nah, Orks ride on Boars. Grots can ride Squigs.

Just to clarify, I think most people are not thinking of those little balls with mouths they ride in Fantasy, but more nasty looking beasts like this (http://webzoom.freewebs.com/tazok/orkcavarly.jpg). How can you say no to that? :D

Abaraxas
14-08-2012, 13:14
*disclaimer* Im a RT/2nd Ork sculpt fanatic

Im not really a fan of the "ape ork" but I would really like to see clan specific models instead of the one box fits all approach we have now.

Blood Axes in forage caps, bad moons with cowls, goffs with horns etc etc.

Space Marines get the treatment, why not Orks?

GrogDaTyrant
14-08-2012, 18:02
I'd much rather they talked about the identity of the different clans, gave you the flexibility to represent them on the tabletop but left the whole thing up to the players with no additional mechanisms shoehorned in to attempt to do 'klans'.

You mean like how it is currently, where the clans are nothing more than 'color scheme examples' with a blurb underneath saying "Deathskulls like to field a lot of lootas...". Yeah, no. I'll pass on that, thanks.

Chem-Dog
14-08-2012, 18:05
Just to clarify, I think most people are not thinking of those little balls with mouths they ride in Fantasy, but more nasty looking beasts like this (http://webzoom.freewebs.com/tazok/orkcavarly.jpg). How can you say no to that? :D

Absolutely. I'm not for one second suggesting the Boyz should ride into battle on the angry space hoppers.

Karlon
14-08-2012, 19:33
I would really dislike the Mark system and anything that encourages Klan diversity. I like being able to field a Deff Skulls army, or a Goff army. I don't want to paint parts of it blue, parts of it red, etc. I much prefer the system that all units are inherently part of the Ork make-up but certain clans gravitate towards a few of them.

In a similar vein, I'd prefer if Snakebite units were not things like Boar Riders or Feral Boyz, but rather Squiggoths and Warpheads. Something that obviously has its origins in Snakebites and something they would likely be all over, but not necessarily anything that we already have but with a Snakebite twist. Something that would add diversity to the list, not necessarily "reskin" other units into a Snakebite theme.

I would be really excited for pretty much everything on the release list, its all stuff that needs replacing or new additions that add something that could be fun without taking liberties with fluff.

Scammel
14-08-2012, 19:47
"Deathskulls like to field a lot of lootas...".

But... that's pretty much all there is to Deathskulls. Well, that and blue paint. They like looting, so field lots of Lootaz and Looted Wagons alongside the usual Boyz and other staples. Why is much more needed besides 'Marines get it, so should we'.

TheBearminator
14-08-2012, 23:06
I'm in on the scar boyz as veterans. Think they can fill a gap between the boyz and nob units. It just needs to be one entry in the codex and then you arm them the way you want.

I was actually a bit disappointed when for example the flash gitz were reshaped into nobs. I don't really think it was the way to go. Or at least let me take those kustom shoots with regular boyz. I Want several units of these maniacs in my army, not one that costs 300 points. I had actually just started converting a bunch of "Quake II-shotguns" (used the shotgun like shoota from the boyz kit and added a handle on top of the barrel and a piece of guitar string on the side). But then came the new codex and the idea died. :(

Rated_lexxx
15-08-2012, 02:49
I would like to see a ork MC. it would make sense to have a hulk like ork fluff wise. Orks have no limit to there size and str as long as there are fighting

Born Again
15-08-2012, 11:29
I would like to see a ork MC. it would make sense to have a hulk like ork fluff wise. Orks have no limit to there size and str as long as there are fighting

Given ork background though, the biggest would typically be the leader, unless it was so stupid (even by ork standards) that it could be chained and used as an attack beast similar to a squiggoth. Still, it could be a level above Warboss (Warlord?) or even an upgrade (+X points gets you stat bonuses and MC status, similar to how Daemon Princes used to work for CSM).

GrogDaTyrant
15-08-2012, 16:34
But... that's pretty much all there is to Deathskulls. Well, that and blue paint. They like looting, so field lots of Lootaz and Looted Wagons alongside the usual Boyz and other staples. Why is much more needed besides 'Marines get it, so should we'.

Don't forget the higher percentage of oddboyz being Doks, or being the most superstitious of orks. And lets not forget that Lootas, while being good, are painfully boring now due to just having a d3 shot autocannon. Or the tendency for Deathskulls to have LOTS of looted gear scattered across the army, as well as entire looted armor divisons. Yeah, no. Deathskulls are not just lots of lootas and blue paint.


Why is much more needed besides 'Marines get it, so should we'.
Why is it hard for people like you to understand that variety is the spice of life, and having options and sub-factions represented for more than just the poster-child is a GOOD thing!? God forbid the Orks get some diversity returned to them! What's next, will they want their tanks back!? It's not a matter of 'marines get it, so should we!' It's a matter of doing away with dull, cookie-cutter "one-size-fits-none" codex design. There is a lot of divergence between the clans and their ideologies, much more than there is between a lot of the major chapters.

Scammel
15-08-2012, 17:58
the most superstitious of orks.

And the Tanith 1st say 'feth' a lot. It doesn't need table-top representation.


Or the tendency for Deathskulls to have LOTS of looted gear scattered across the army, as well as entire looted armor divisons.

So... lots of Lootaz and Looted Wagons, then? Perhaps some SM bikes for the Warbikers? Some cool conversions using bitz from other armies?


Why is it hard for people like you to understand that variety is the spice of life, and having options and sub-factions represented for more than just the poster-child is a GOOD thing!?

Because in this instance the sub-factions really aren't that different from each other and I'd much rather the team create lots of cool stuff that's free for all and let the players themselves decide how they want to represent certain factions from there.

Hokiecow
15-08-2012, 19:10
more random! and more stuff that either does great damage or blows itself up!

This!
I would gladly deal with the randomness as long as things were more killy with big explosions! Orks should be all about have tons of units that with lots of dakka, and they need lots of units because they kill themselves in the process.

The_Klobb_Maniac
15-08-2012, 21:52
Flash gits
I too miss old Flash Gits

TheBearminator
16-08-2012, 00:16
GrogDaTyrant: Bang on target. :)

The Dungen: I would agree with you on randomness, everybody's having a great laugh when you're weirdboy decides to warp off their objective on turn 6. I think some entries in the codex could flourish with more random behaviour/attacks. For example I find the shock attack gun unbelievably boring. If you get to shoot every round he will do something unexpected once in the whole game. Much unlike weirdboyz who do something stupid or brilliant almost every turn.

But my ork love suffers from schizophrenia. I also want the ability to field this very tactical and disciplined ork army that's not ment to amuse (and that almost no one seems to enjoy). That's why I'm kinda bitter over what happened to tankbustas for example. In that army I would certainly not field weirdboyz, but I would love to have Snikkrot, lots of kommandos and tankbustas (not with current codex though). I would also like the possibility to buy sneaky upgrades like stealth if they were available.

Loki73
16-08-2012, 00:35
Id like Waaagh! to give orcs more dakka like on the dakka jet!
Rules to run Kan lists.
looted vehicles need to be a bit better. I dunno ...maybe more armor.
We defineatly need something to prop up slugga boys.
Kommandos need to be better than just slugga boys that out flank. maybe a pop out attack like marbo.
trucks for burna boys.
include the stick bombs for the orks in the current cost.

pulsa rokkit batterys!

Cap'n Shings
16-08-2012, 01:02
Grot Gunna's upgrade for Trukks and Batlewagons. A nice little BS upgrade.

MajorWesJanson
16-08-2012, 01:08
Id like Waaagh! to give orcs more dakka like on the dakka jet!

Waaagh! ought to have different effects on each unit:
Boyz, Nobz, Kans, and Deffdreds move faster, maybe gain move through cover for the turn
Planes, big gunz, flahs gitz, lootas, and vehicles shoot more
Kommandos that arrive on the same turn as a waaagh may assault from outflank
Storm boyz do more/better Hammer of Wrath hits on the Waaagh turn

ect.

From the spoiler list, pulsa rokkets will be added to the big gun battery box.

Rated_lexxx
16-08-2012, 03:56
Given ork background though, the biggest would typically be the leader, unless it was so stupid (even by ork standards) that it could be chained and used as an attack beast similar to a squiggoth. Still, it could be a level above Warboss (Warlord?) or even an upgrade (+X points gets you stat bonuses and MC status, similar to how Daemon Princes used to work for CSM).

My thought is with the "hulk ork" is they basically breed it. They take a ork and every hour it's awake it's fighting something..typical another ork.

I can see in my head. A ork chained to a post in some kind of arena where it is forced to fight everyday.

Oh well..one can dream

onidemon
16-08-2012, 04:21
My thought is with the "hulk ork" is they basically breed it. They take a ork and every hour it's awake it's fighting something..typical another ork.

I can see in my head. A ork chained to a post in some kind of arena where it is forced to fight everyday.

Oh well..one can dream

"Orkan, wot iz best 'n stuff?"

"Ta drive wunz enemies before em', an' hear da lamentation of da hoomies."

It is a bit tough - I could see a partially lobotomized ork, or one given a squig-brain courtesy of an enterprising Mad Dok, who could be trained until he grew huge and hulk-like. The trouble is, Orks have this tendency to actually follow who ever is biggest and greenest, so I can't help but think when they unleashed the giant ork into the enemy's midst, the rest of the boys would follow him...

Wait, datz a great idea! Grotz, fetch the bone saws! It's time fer old fashioned brain surgery!

Though, now that I think about it, I wouldn't mind a more hulking warboss miniature, something broader in the chest and wider in the ribcage. Modern warbosses are fine, but they wear most of their size in their head. Something with more visible musculature would be nice. Failing that, Forge World could include that thirty foot high, pure black Ork Warlord who fights the Emperor in their forthcoming Horus Heresy book... >:D

Abaraxas
16-08-2012, 09:21
Loving the Conan quote:skull:

ihavetoomuchminis
16-08-2012, 09:30
Waaagh! ought to have different effects on each unit:
Boyz, Nobz, Kans, and Deffdreds move faster, maybe gain move through cover for the turn
Planes, big gunz, flahs gitz, lootas, and vehicles shoot more
Kommandos that arrive on the same turn as a waaagh may assault from outflank
Storm boyz do more/better Hammer of Wrath hits on the Waaagh turn

ect.

From the spoiler list, pulsa rokkets will be added to the big gun battery box.

Love it!

From the spoiler list, it seems there would be army-specific fortifications.

GrogDaTyrant
16-08-2012, 17:22
Because in this instance the sub-factions really aren't that different from each other and I'd much rather the team create lots of cool stuff that's free for all and let the players themselves decide how they want to represent certain factions from there.

I'd argue there is more difference than say a nearly-vanilla variant army that can run a slight variation in all bikes or all terminators. The problem with your argument there, is you're assuming there isn't much difference. There wasn't much difference between the Black Templar and any generic marine army upwards of a decade ago, either. Hell the Raven Guard had literally nothing for them prior to their index astartes article (written up and submitted by a random fan). There's actually MORE divergence between the clans than there is for the majority of marine chapters that have been represented. Even when incorrectly summarizing it as just "more lootas and looted wagons".

In any case I personally would rather have an option-rich codex with plenty of customization and theming (even if it's as simple as an army-wide USR for each clan), then some painfully dull, and boring cookie-cutter one like we have now. Give me back some options, customization (beyond nobs or deff-dreads as troops), and variety to the different clans even if it's simple. And it sure as hell shouldn't be through special characters, either. Hell it might actually make 40k fun enough to play once again...

Scammel
16-08-2012, 18:36
I'd argue there is more difference than say a nearly-vanilla variant army that can run a slight variation in all bikes or all terminators.

I wouldn't really disagree with you. I've said on a couple of occasions that Marines get more love in this respect than is probably justified.


Even when incorrectly summarizing it as just "more lootas and looted wagons".


So what more is there that needs representing? Perhaps Doks should be available as a 3-for-1 elites choice. Does 'superstition' really need representing? Do we need a rule for 'blue paint'? There's no massive difference between a particular unit made up of members from one Klan and those of another. A Goff who likes looting is not enough of a world apart from a Skull who likes looting to justify a USR or somesuch. The fact that more Skulls like looting than Goffs can be represented by taking more Lootas and painting wargear blue.

GrogDaTyrant
16-08-2012, 22:29
So what more is there that needs representing? Perhaps Doks should be available as a 3-for-1 elites choice. Does 'superstition' really need representing? Do we need a rule for 'blue paint'? There's no massive difference between a particular unit made up of members from one Klan and those of another. A Goff who likes looting is not enough of a world apart from a Skull who likes looting to justify a USR or somesuch. The fact that more Skulls like looting than Goffs can be represented by taking more Lootas and painting wargear blue.

Well with exception to the part about how it's really only in the recent codex where Goffs became remotely ok with Looting (seeing as they were unjustly turned into the 'Vanilla' of Orks), and typically eschewed the whole shooting thing anyways. There's also the physical differences, as Goffs tend to be the biggest, and most foul tempered Orks while Deathskulls have typically been described as 'runtier' in appearance.

And do we even need a rule for 'red paint' while we're at it? (Sarcasm: on) If we're aiming to keep the Orks as dull as possible and not bother with characterful changes such as more unit options or themes, then we might as well strip MORE out and dull them down even further! (Sarcasm: off)

The problem to the "no options and let the players theme it on their own", is that historically GW has done a very terrible job of this. The current codex for example doesn't even do a semi-decent job of representing the clans at all. Snakebites require half the freaking army list to be "counts-as", the 'rich as hell' Bad Moonz can't even afford more than 1 unit of 'Ard Boyz, and you need a craptastic named character to even get warbikes as a troop option for a decent Evil Suns force! If all you go by for the 'lack of differences between the clans' is the paragraph or two in the current codex, then yes there's no basis for it because all the meat and gristle has been torn away in favor of a 7-page long army list full of 'aspekt-skwads' with no unit options.

In any case, my stance is to hell with a "one size fits none" codex that provides a bland and flavorless list with emphasis on half-assedly representing the clans (or other variant themes) if a player wishes to theme it. The Imperial Guard and the Orks are the two most divergent armies in the game, with the greatest degree of variation, and neither of which currently show that. Yeah maybe the Deathskulls could use a little more fleshing out. Such as rules for giving lootas actual looted weapons (again), taking looted weaponry and Doks as squad upgrade options among boy mobs, giving their warbosses cobbled-together mega-deffguns (yes, this was an idea at one time by Andy C.), and providing them with actual looted vehicles instead of a rhino with a battlecannon. But simply put the Orks still need MORE. More options, more variations, and more customization.