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logan054
13-08-2012, 12:24
Lords

Countess Verona Jinette
Vampire Lord
- lvl 3 sorcerer
- Lore of Vampires
- Shield
- Sword of Might
- Armour of Destiny
- Quick Blood
- Red Fury
Total 443pts


Heroes

Lady Aleera Jinette
Count as Manfred the Acolyte
Total 200pts


Troops

5 Direwolves
Total 40pts

35 Skeleton Warriors
Fullcommand
Total 205pts

Crazed Villagers
28 Ghouls
Total 280pts


Special

Cursed Teutogen Guard
27 Gave Guard
- Fullcommand
- Great weapons
- Banner of Barrows
Total 404pts


Rare

Enslaved Skin Wolf
Varghulf
Total 175pts

5 Wraiths
Total 250pts

meowser
13-08-2012, 17:12
low on magic defense, and lacking in chaff. to alleviate the latter, drop 1 or 2 wraiths for 1 or 2 spirit hosts.

logan054
13-08-2012, 17:36
I would like more chaff but I don't think making the Wraiths smaller is a good idea, I just can't see a unit of 3 Wraiths being all that useful.

Moss
13-08-2012, 23:17
Well, what do you think five wraiths can do that three wraiths cannot?

logan054
14-08-2012, 00:51
They seem to small to actually do anything useful, I planned on using them as a support unit, the lack of wounds could be a problem if any magic missile get through or if a combat goes badly.

m1acca1551
14-08-2012, 01:22
Wraiths are hit or miss any way, i find they are a great psych out unit but there effectivness can be varied. If you keep them, leave them at 5, taking 3 mean that a magic missile actually has a chance to wipe the unit out, 5 means that unless your opponent is very lucky there will be 1-2 left allowing you to raise them back :). Damaged wraith units draw out opponents dispel dice, as they often hate seeing the unit getting back again, so they will often over commit dispel dice and then casting dice to ensure they can wipe them out next turn.

If you were to drop the wraiths i'd council taking an extra vargulf (bat version, fits the von carstein theme perfectly) and spending the rest on dire wolves or spirit hosts. I've been running 2 vargulfs on 1 flank to great success as of late, there are very few units that can take on a dual charge of the above and opponents again tend to over compensate there movement to counter and again over commit shooting and magic to remove to highly dangerous threats. Once behind enemy lines charging said units inot the flank of a unit already engaged with your lord and co means you will easily break all but the hardest/luckiest units.

Other than that, i like the list simple but very effective!!!

Kayosiv
14-08-2012, 02:41
You're much better off getting an enchanted shield and regular heavy armor with a talisman that gives you a 4+ ward save. It's slightly more expensive but infinitely worth it for +1 armor on such an important model.

I would lose 1 ghoul and make 1 of them a champion. Being able to resurrect a champion that can continuously save the unit from powerful heroes is very often why my ghouls do so well.

I've found that putting the +1 movement banner on my skeletons has been useful and worth the points when I house a vampire character in there, if that's what you plan on doing.

I don't think Manfred works well with this list. You already have a level 3 caster in your Lord, and you'll likely not get enough dice to cast more than 4 spells a turn anyway. Either lose manfriend and get a necromancer/vampire or lose magic levels on your Lord. Either way, the saved points can be spent on more troops, which I think your army needs. All of your ranked infantry units are a bit small.

Your army also seems very slow. Wraiths are good, but I'm thinking more things that are cavalry or can fly would be nice to have. For 250 points you can make a unit of essentially anything, so the choice is yours. If you feel like speed is a non-issue, keep the wraiths. if you do, you can get a pretty solid unit of black knights or Vargheists for 250 points, or just use the points for some bats and then beef up the rest of your infantry.

m1acca1551
14-08-2012, 03:22
Good points raised by kayosiv, dropping the magic levels on your lord by 1-2 will free up some points and a ward save is a must for a cc lord.

I'd caution the use of vargheists, they are ok but prone to being baited off by the enemy due to frenzy at ld 7, remember they will often be outside ld bubble. Dual vargulfs are better imo. The points saved by the magic levels can be invested into spirit hosts and fell bats. Fell bats can be quite over looked in the book but can be usefull for taking on warmachines, in your list i'd avoid black knights, why? Cav that cant march often find themselves out of pos

m1acca1551
14-08-2012, 03:24
Ition and unless used for a blender delivery system wont be able to dish out enough damage to cover the points cost snd crumble will take effect.

logan054
14-08-2012, 11:17
Funny you mention dropping levels off the lord, I had actually thought about doing that, I could drop her down to lvl1 and then get some more hounds, buff the skeletons back to 39 and then add in a extra unit of wolves?

Or I could try something like this and leave the lord for 2400pts games

Heroes

Lady Aleera Jinette
Count as Manfred the Acolyte
Total 200pts

Victor Helstrum
Vampire
lvl 2 sorcerer
- Lore of Vampires
- Great Weapon
- Heavy Armour
- Nightshroud
- Seed of Rebirth
- Beguile
- Aura of Dark Majesty
- Dread Knight
Total 252pts

Troops

5 Direwolves
Total 40pts

5 Direwolves
Total 40pts

39 Skeleton Warriors
Fullcommand
- Screaming banner
Total 250pts

Crazed Villagers
28 Ghouls
- Ghast
Total 290pts


Special

Cursed Teutogen Guard
27 Gave Guard
- Fullcommand
- Great weapons
- Banner of Barrows
Total 404pts

Spirit Host
Total 45pts

Rare

Enslaved Skin Wolf
Varghulf
Total 175pts

6 Wraiths
Total 300pts

m1acca1551
14-08-2012, 12:55
Great list again, i may run it myself, something different from the norm. My only fear is that dropping the lord you lose a cc heavy weight. Run both and see how it goes haha

logan054
14-08-2012, 13:10
Thanks! I have played 1500pts with only two vampires and a very similar list to this (main thing missing is the Wraiths and the 2nd vampire is much cheaper, less dogies and no spirit hosts) and it seemed to do fine, the 2nd vampire is actually very nice in combat but I have been wondering if I should tweak his loadout, I can never decided if silvered steel armour or nightshroud is better, one makes him a real character killer while the other means he can take hits from infantry a bit better, thoughts? I think I will have to try this one out this week (when ever my Wraiths arrive).

I'm not sure how well it will do against chaos, I guess it depends on how many magical weapons they have.

Kayosiv
15-08-2012, 04:29
silvered steel armor is never worth it on hero characters. When you can wear heavy armor and get an enchanted shield for 5 points for a 3+ armor save, the 2+ armor save being 30+ points more expensive is not worth it when you can use those points to get a 5+ or 4+ ward save on top of your 3+ armor save. On a Lord, when you might want both a 2+/4++ it might be worth it, but I doubt it. I think a nightshroud for a 3+/4++ while reducing the strength of your enemies will still be better.

I'd be tempted to make Victor Helstrum a Lord with minimal equipment.
Vampire
lvl 2 sorcerer
- Lore of Vampires
- Great Weapon
- Heavy Armour
- Nightshroud
- Seed of Rebirth
- Beguile
- Aura of Dark Majesty
- Dread Knight

With a great weapon, heavy armor, and a dragonhelm he's about as many points as the hero, and while he lacks a few vampire powers, has an extra toughness, wound, initiative, and attack. He would be a level 1 though, I'm not sure what you could sacrifice to gain that back.

logan054
15-08-2012, 23:44
The vampire lord idea is a interesting one, its not something I had really considered, then again I think I have started to overlook any lord without red fury, on the flip side I have used the challenge vampire with great success so far, I think t comes down do does being a lord actually make him harder to kill, the vampire level one is going to be a pick to even hit and will last far longer against anything with a halberd or great weapon.

logan054
24-08-2012, 14:23
Well I have done some play testing now, after a game with a Dwarf army, the magic phase was rather pointless, had he been a better a player it would have certainly cost me the game, so now I am just seeing how if I can squeeze everything I need in the list, vampire lord is really the only way I can fit everything I want into the army, I am debating changing the other vampire abit, possibly going for glittering scales instead, it would be nice if I could find the other 25pts so I can get the skeleton warriors up to 39 strong.

I was pretty happy with the army itself, just not so much with the characters, god I'm starting to hate playing 2k :(

Countess Verona Jinette
Vampire Lord
- lvl 4 sorcerer
- Lore of Vampires
- Great Weapon
- heavy Armour
- Nightshroud
- Beguile
Total 396pts


Heroes

Victor Helstrum
Vampire
lvl 1 sorcerer
- Lore of Shadow
- Great Weapon
- Armour of Silvered Steel
- Beguile
- Dread Knight
Total 172pts


Troops

5 Direwolves
Total 40pts

5 Direwolves
Total 40pts

34 Skeleton Warriors
- Standard
- musician
Total 190pts

Crazed Villagers
28 Ghouls
Total 280pts


Special

Cursed Teutogen Guard
27 Gave Guard
- Fullcomand
- Great weapons
- Banner of Barrows
Total 404pts


Rare

Enslaved Skin Wolf
Varghulf
Total 175pts

6 Wraiths
Total 300pts

m1acca1551
25-08-2012, 00:47
Yeah 2000pts is kinda crap, well for VC as we have to leave our toys at home but oh well such is life.

I try not to worry about what my characters can and can't do at this points level, your list is fine and your characters are refreshing from the norm. Unfortunatly at 2000 pts we cant really take the "optimised" lord choice aka blender lord, but we have to work with what we have. Run glittering scales and see how you go, i'd keep it the way it is and become used to playing as it is, this way you will become accustomed to having an army to win a battle with not just relying on the 1 same unit all the time as i have found. I actually prefer a closer game that you just scrape buy than a game where you rolf stomp your opponent

logan054
25-08-2012, 14:25
Well the list is more a spring board to a 2400pts list, its just as I mainly play in GW atm the most we normally play is 2k games, however when I start going to tournaments (other than throne of skulls) I want the list to be pretty similar to what I will be actually taking with me.

Just trying to get characters that are ok, they don't need to be amazing but ok, just noticed I messed up the points on the hero, doh!

The hero will be this guy who is a downgraded version of the build I normally take:

Vampire
lvl 1 Shadow
Great weapon
Heavy Armour
Nightshroud
Beguile
Dread knight
Total 182pts

While the lord looks like it will be something like this:

Vampire Lord
lvl4 sorcerer
Great weapon
Beguile
Armour of fortune
Total 385pts

I do wonder if I would be better off with a additional and weapon and 2+ save, I'm kinda torn between whats better, a wardsave or armoursave, I was looking at having vampires with ASF, I had these suggested to me:

Vamp
Lvl 1 Shadow
Quickblood
Beguile
AHW
Armor of Fortune
189

Lord
Lvl 3 Vamp
GW
QB
Beguile
HA
Tali Endurance
OTS

I however don't like the fact the lord would cause me to lose a Wraith and I am not sure ASF is worth trading for a magic level after my last game against a dwarf player, if I did go with ASF then I think I would rather have additional hand weapons and use her as a unit grinder rather than character killer. I'm not so worried about taking optimised characters, just half decent, I hate every time I use the blender lord, it just feels like my army sits back and watches as my lord kills everything.

Soundwave
25-08-2012, 16:39
Ahh the old nightshroud in the great weapon trick! Love it, your striking at exactly the same time as any lord character,but your still a vampire,,,as long as the character in question does not have killing blow your sitting so much better off and can regenerate wounds caused with each success full casting. I give mine curse of the revenant to really make the durability worth while as well as talisman of pres.Very difficult to kill.

logan054
26-08-2012, 12:07
Well, it works better with aura of dark majesty, but still I love it! always works a treat for me, he's killed 4/5 lords so far and various heroes in challenges, I am most impressed with how he performs, people on carpe don't believe me with all this talk about wardsaves, pfft.

Soundwave
26-08-2012, 13:51
Well, it works better with aura of dark majesty, but still I love it! always works a treat for me, he's killed 4/5 lords so far and various heroes in challenges, I am most impressed with how he performs, people on carpe don't believe me with all this talk about wardsaves, pfft.
Yeah im thinking of dropping the talisman of pres as well. I rarely pass the ward save anyway and he is my primary caster so i was thinking of some magic enhancement. Everyone raves on about the blender lord but this build is still quite mean.

logan054
26-08-2012, 14:36
I must admit I would be more cautious about dropping it on the general as they seem like a prime target for lone monsters, I don't think its needed on every single character in the list, I think in many cases the kind of units you would worry about engaging a vampire without a wardsave would struggle to cause wounds if they lose the strength bonus of the great weapon, characters certainly struggle if they have to reroll to hit, don't hit on a 3+ and then go back down to S4/5, Elven elites are far less of a issue when they go back to S3. I don't think you need a red fury lord with VC, I think it depends if you want your army to support your characters or your characters to support your army, at 2000pts and below I found basic vampires provided enough killing power, especially when buffed by dance

This is the list I plan on using at 2400pts, I had been thinking about adding a master necromancer with death to the list by dropping the lords magic levels, I would need to do some serious tweaking of the characters, as it stand lord with skeletons, victor with ghouls, aleera with the grave guard.




Countess Verona Jinette
Vampire Lord
- lvl 4 sorcerer
- Lore of Vampires
- Shield
- Sword of Might
- Armour of Destiny
- Quick Blood
- Beguile
- Red Fury
Total 493pts


Heroes

Lady Aleera Jinette
Vampire
- Lvl 1 Shadow
- Additional Hand Weapon
- heavy Armour
- Dragon Helm
- Talisman of Endurance
- Quickblood
- Beguile
Total 197pts

Victor Helstrum
Vampire
- lvl 2 sorcerer
- Lore of Shadow
- Great Weapon
- Heavy Armour
- Nightshroud
- Dragonbane Gem
- Beguile
- Dread Knight
Total 222pts


Troops

5 Direwolves
Total 40pts

5 Direwolves
Total 40pts

40 Skeleton Warriors
Fullcommand
- Screaming Banner
Total 255pts

Crazed Villagers
27 Ghouls
Total 270pts


Special

Cursed Teutogen Guard
27 Gave Guard
- Fullcommand
- Great weapons
- Banner of Barrows
Total 404pts


Rare

Enslaved Skin Wolf
Varghulf
Total 175pts

6 Wraiths
Total 300pts