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TheSustainableCenter
15-08-2012, 14:11
So some people say yes other say no you cannot ally a codex with itself. I need warseer's ruling on this, please help!

Mini77
15-08-2012, 14:29
You need Warseer's ruling? Why not just use the rulebook......

Baneboss
15-08-2012, 14:30
Isnt that obvious? In case it truly is not, there are blank squares across the table (page 113) so same armies are neither Battle Brothers, Allies of Convienience nor Desperate Allies to themselves.

Also note that on page 109 is the exact answer youre looking for.

Ragnar69
15-08-2012, 14:46
no!!!!!!!!

Charistoph
15-08-2012, 15:11
At 2000 points you can... sort of...

StraightSilver
15-08-2012, 15:14
Technically no you can't, I don't believe any of the armies on the allies matrix in the rulebook allow you to ally with yourself.

However you sort of can if you're using Forge World.

For example a standard IG army can take Death Korps of Krieg or Elysian allies.

And then as has been pointed out at 200pts and above the FOC doubles, but that isn't taking allies, it just allows you to double up on slots.

Wishing
15-08-2012, 15:17
If you can't, then that is total crap. I hate arbitrary conditions and restrictions. If a second FOC is OK for allies, then it should be OK for mono armies too. Otherwise, you're allowed a second FOC if you ally Ultramarines and Space Wolves, but not if you ally Ultramarines and Salalmanders. That would be amazingly lame.

Edit: Based on the last few posts, it seems like I might not understand the question.

Leeman Russ
15-08-2012, 15:19
Double Force Org chart *is* allying with yourself, pretty much (and actually works out better, as you get up to 12 Troops and 6 Elite/Fast/Heavy slots rather than 8/4 like you would with Allies).

hashrat
15-08-2012, 15:26
That rule doesn't do it for me, seeing as my Dark Angels have 3 distinct armies they can field in the Ravenwing, Deathwing and Dark Angels standard.
Fielding all 3 as 3 detachments has always been fun.

Not that anyone I play with cares, so it is a mute point here, however it is just another example of "one size fits all" being a tremendous farce.

Aryllon
15-08-2012, 19:50
Er, no it's not.

We went from 'no allies, no extra foc slots' to 'limited allies from other codices, double own FOC slots'


You can run all three DA contingents exactly as you did before (and so can everyone can run their lists exactly as they did before), except now you can take twice as much of each of what you had before and​ have the option to take allies too.

kane40k
15-08-2012, 20:27
Good shout there Aryllon.

So in answer to the original question, no you cant ally with yourself exactly, But there is nothing to stop you painting 2 marine chapters in the same codex with the double FOC slots.

The_Klobb_Maniac
15-08-2012, 20:39
Well there's no need anyway. The only difference is on the table top, which you can do in the standard force org chart anyway.

Example:

Warboss GyzNaz
60 Gyznaz's boyz!

Warboss GrubStug
20 Stug's Boyz
8 Stug's bikers


Easily represented on the chart as two hqs, 3 troops, and a fast attack (or troops if stug is a wazzdakka)

I don't see anything wrong with that

tiger g
15-08-2012, 21:05
You need Warseer's ruling? Why not just use the rulebook......

might be Lazy

Does not want to download the illegal PDF

Waiting for the mini rule book

Might be Lazy

Aryllon
15-08-2012, 22:24
might be Lazy

Does not want to download the illegal PDF

Waiting for the mini rule book

Might be Lazy

Hehehe... in case anyone was still unsure, no, rulebook says you cannot ally with yourself. But you get an extra 'standard'* FOC from your original codex if you spend over 2000pts.

The allied FOC is completely independent, additional & optional (does not require you to spend 2000pts).

*'Standard' meaning you can't just take 3 more elite etc once you go over 2000pt watershed, you need another HQ & 2 troop first.

Still Standing
16-08-2012, 14:18
If you can't, then that is total crap. I hate arbitrary conditions and restrictions. If a second FOC is OK for allies, then it should be OK for mono armies too. Otherwise, you're allowed a second FOC if you ally Ultramarines and Space Wolves, but not if you ally Ultramarines and Salalmanders. That would be amazingly lame.

Edit: Based on the last few posts, it seems like I might not understand the question.

Of course you can...

Blue Librarian
2x Blue Tactical squads
3x Blue Terminator squads

Green Captain
2x Green Scout squads
3x Green Heavy Choices

Oh look, Blue Marines allied to Green Marines from the same codex.

superdupermatt
16-08-2012, 16:47
Although this ^ is true, in terms of using the allies matrix, you cannot take an allied force from the same codex (as has been stated numerous before already). DKoK and Elysians are separate armies from Imperial Guard much like Blood Angels and Space Wolves are distinct from Codex: Space Marines.

Malorian
16-08-2012, 16:57
I'm guessing the OP wants to do it to double up a special character.

Haravikk
16-08-2012, 17:27
I'm not sure it's fair to assume they want to cheat. It does seem kind of weird though that you can get "bonus" slots for an allied detachment, but if you choose not to take allies you don't get anything.
It's a simplistic way to look at it, as the allies combos are a bit more complex depending which force you choose, what alliance type you get etc.

But it does seem weird that you can't just choose to take a Secondary Detachment of the same codex exactly as per an allied force, since you'd only be getting extra slots at the cost of having to take an extra HQ and Troops choice to do-so, so it's not like it's any more exploitable. Especially if they'd simply stipulated that the secondary detachment follows any other restrictions you might have, so no extra Unique choices or 0-1 choices etc. It would basically allow you to specialise a primary detachment further by taking more elites than normal or whatever, but the restrictions involved wouldn't make it a thing to do lightly since you need separate transports etc.

Aryllon
16-08-2012, 17:59
Assuming you're talking about lists under 2000pts right?

That's the only situation where you can't take a second detachment from your main codex. And the second detachment is a full FOC whereas allies never get a full FOC at any points level.

hashrat
17-08-2012, 02:33
Hehehe... in case anyone was still unsure, no, rulebook says you cannot ally with yourself. But you get an extra 'standard'* FOC from your original codex if you spend over 2000pts.

The allied FOC is completely independent, additional & optional (does not require you to spend 2000pts).

*'Standard' meaning you can't just take 3 more elite etc once you go over 2000pt watershed, you need another HQ & 2 troop first.

I missed that completely, I thought they did away with the whole detachment thing.
Guess I best have another look through a few pages and see what I missed.

I do assume you are talking about something in the main rules? Not an expansion like Apocolypse?

Charistoph
17-08-2012, 04:21
I missed that completely, I thought they did away with the whole detachment thing.
Guess I best have another look through a few pages and see what I missed.

I do assume you are talking about something in the main rules? Not an expansion like Apocolypse?

That is correct!

Hendarion
17-08-2012, 06:57
Otherwise, you're allowed a second FOC if you ally Ultramarines and Space Wolves, but not if you ally Ultramarines and Salalmanders.
In the latter case though, you simply paint some of your Marines blue and others green. Or you just leave them plastic-grey as usual.

Atherakhia
17-08-2012, 08:24
and still, once again, its another way GW has screwed over us Tyranid players
not content with giving us a crappy codex, we now have to contend with armies allying themselves all over the place, where we get no compensation for it

Tarax
17-08-2012, 10:09
@OP: What kind of combination are you thinking of? The rules are self-explanatory, but maybe you want something else. Some details would be handy to give you more information.

StraightSilver
17-08-2012, 10:21
and still, once again, its another way GW has screwed over us Tyranid players
not content with giving us a crappy codex, we now have to contend with armies allying themselves all over the place, where we get no compensation for it

I would say Tyranids got a huge boost in 6th Edition. They have one of the highest amounts of psykers per army, and if you swap out their powers for Biomancy they become really quite tasty.

However I do know what you mean, there doesn't seem to have been that much thought put into the matrix. It seems that Space Marines can pretty much ally with anybody, and it does seem unfair and unfluffy that 'Nids can't ally with anybody.

Aryllon
17-08-2012, 15:42
I missed that completely, I thought they did away with the whole detachment thing.
Guess I best have another look through a few pages and see what I missed.

I do assume you are talking about something in the main rules? Not an expansion like Apocolypse?

Yes this is core rules :)