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View Full Version : Tyranids codex - was it written for 6th? If not, which was?



nedius
22-08-2012, 19:06
Hi all,

I was reading the 'most broken' thread, and it had quickly branched to both broken and 'murdered'.

Morgrad had suggested that genestealers were now 'murdered' due to overwatch and charge ranges. However, this reminded me of something from ages ago. It was suggested that one of the reasons the Tyranid codex seemed poorly written (or at least was widely judged to be) was because it was the first codex written with 6th ed in mind. That seemed to be a fairly common theme when discussing the codex, and before writing this a bit of googling took me to a range of old posts on other forums essentially stating that 'all codexes since Codex Tyranids were written with the new rules in mind'.

Well, now 6th is settling in, does this still ring true? I can't say that I believe so, as the things that didn't work before don't seem to have magically been fixed, and the things that did work still do, or in the odd case, now don't work quite so well.

So this got me wondering. Did the rumours that nids were the first 6th codex seem true? If not, which codex does read like it was written with 6th in mind?

TheDarkDuke
22-08-2012, 20:44
I highly doubt it had any intentions of it being written with 6th edition in mind. The book was released when 2-3 years ago? As incompetent as GW is I highly doubt they are that bad as to screw any army over for that long of a time with the intention they would be better with an edition no one was anticipating anytime soon.

Sexiest_hero
22-08-2012, 20:46
It was the first or second Xenos codexin 5th. but then 5th was the SM edition.

orlando davion
22-08-2012, 20:53
Codex Tyranids is a gross example of a codex produced to a deadline with little or no playtesting. Aside from shafting much of the range tyranid players already had (carnifex; spinegaunts) to encourage players to buy new kits (although they went way too far with this; far more than the normal old model tax) even the new models had problem; look at the pyrovore; it is clear some big chnges were made late and the whol thing is a mess.

Although 6th has helped in some ways; in others things are worse (anti flyer weaponary; overwatch; charge through cover; revised assault rules for assault units without frag grenades; reduced cover saves; no ability to get allies or allies equivlent FOC slots (in a codex where the elites slot has most of the usable units).

Codex designed for 6th; just one; Necrons.

A.T.
22-08-2012, 21:49
Codex designed for 6th; just one; Necrons.GKs were also designed for 6th - mastery levels and all that.

Both of Crud's recent works have been rushed crap, don't know what the guy is doing with his time.

Konovalev
22-08-2012, 21:50
Codex Tyranids is a bad codex because cruddace demonstrated his inability to write codicis. See also Codex Imperial Guard.

Archibald_TK
22-08-2012, 21:56
So this got me wondering. Did the rumours that nids were the first 6th codex seem true? If not, which codex does read like it was written with 6th in mind?
It was never a rumour, it was just the theory of some posters that became repeated so much that it wildly spread everywhere and people started to think that it was a founded rumour. The Tyranid Codex ended up no more designed for 6th that my Tau Codex. The "Designed for the next Edition" is kind of like a Joker card when people want to play Devil's Advocate for a Codex that is so poorly written that there are no other concrete way to defend it. It will happen again for whatever 6th Ed Codex will miss the mark.

Btw at the Open Day the Dev said that 6th Edition was finalized only 6 Months before its release, that explains why even the Necron Codex required some heavy handed FAQ after 6th.

Angelwing
24-08-2012, 08:17
Well at least the toxin sac upgrade for MC's now works properly in 6th and fearless gaunt tarpits work as intended.
However I think the theory that the tyranid book was simply rushed out with little playtesting and proof reading is far more likely than being written with 6th ed in mind.

Murphey
24-08-2012, 08:55
I think the, "It was intended for 6th!" statements were just people trying to defend GW in regards to an unambiguously terrible codex. Yes, the Tyranid codex did get a bump one a few things (and detriments on many others), but so did almost every codex, really.

Welfstar
24-08-2012, 14:55
Codex Tyranids is a bad codex because cruddace demonstrated his inability to write codicis. See also Codex Imperial Guard.

Bah. Both those books are fine.

The current 'Nid book wasn't written with 6th in mind, but it works well enough regardless.

Ozendorph
24-08-2012, 15:02
Imo 6th ed wasnt even a twinkle in a designer's eye when the nid book was written. I think the only books written with 6th in mind are GK and Necrons.

hobojebus
24-08-2012, 15:15
I'd say necrons and GK all had 6th in mind given ward wrote them and the BRB, GK went down in power slightly with the new power weapon rules but over all are still strong.

OgreBattle
24-08-2012, 15:16
I'm curious... would the 4e codex actually synergize better with 6e than the current one?

nedius
24-08-2012, 15:20
Interesting. Not thought about that. I prefer the previous codex as it is. Not got my codex on me, would be intrrested to see how it compares.

I always fancied a 'new codex vs old codex' battle. Wonder how that would work alongside 6th?

Geep
24-08-2012, 15:23
I don't think the 4th ed codex would synergise better with 6th, but it would probably do better as it was a better book overall (IMO, obviously). Nothing in the current book really 'synergisers' with 6th ed- bad rules stay bad, other things get changed for them exactly as they are changed for other codexes.

GenerationTerrorist
24-08-2012, 15:40
If it had been written with 6th Edition in mind, then they would not have turned Genestealers from something that should be feared into something that gets laughed at :mad:

nedius
24-08-2012, 15:44
So which was tue 1st 6th codex? Or has it yet to arrive? Are GK or Necrons particularly '6th'?

Thrax
24-08-2012, 16:14
Tyranids were written for the 7th edition, obviously. ;)

Ozendorph
24-08-2012, 17:57
So which was tue 1st 6th codex? Or has it yet to arrive? Are GK or Necrons particularly '6th'?

Well "true" (or "tue" I suppose) is tricky to define, as even the GK and Necron codices required FAQs for 6th (flier rules, CC weapon changes, etc), but I think everyone knew the winds of change were blowing when psyker-levels made an appearance in the GK codex.

mrtn
24-08-2012, 22:53
People need to realise that "it was written for x'th edition" doesn't come with "and will therefore be powerful once the edition changes" tagged onto the end. Sure, the power level may change, but that's not the point of writing something for a new edition. The point is that you use some of the new rules so you don't have to FAQ it as much, and maybe think about coming changes when it comes to pricing. That's all.

Murphey
24-08-2012, 23:09
I always fancied a 'new codex vs old codex' battle. Wonder how that would work alongside 6th?

We hashed this out at my old hobby store pretty thoroughly. Assuming that you don't have spore mines count as giving victory points, the 4e codex just triumphs for pretty much two reasons: Living ammo and Implant Attack. Being able to inflict double wounds in CC is terrifyingly good against 6e Tyranid MCs, the old carnifexs are much better costed and their devourers are comparatively much more brutal.

Toss in the fact that the 4e Genestealers (along with almost everything else) can get assault grenades means that they don't worry about charging through cover, and they pretty quickly rip apart the Gaunt tarpits with very few losses. (Assuming they can actually reach more than a few gaunts at the I6 step of combat.)

Chaos257
24-08-2012, 23:50
It was written with the view to make Tyranids less powerful. MC costs are a total joke.

They screwed it up so badly nids are just unplayable as nids. Hive guard and tervigons ? um hello ? That is like playing a new space marine codex and having to bring squat and space dogs as they're the only coincidentally not crap unit in the entire codex, because rhinos now cost 100 points and can only move 6, marines are 40 points a piece but have 2 wounds, 3 attacks and a 4+ SAVE, no access to heavy weapons except for 60 points a heavy bolter which can fire at 18 inch range 5 str 5 ap - 5 assault shots !

oh you can give them all power weapons in exchange for their bolt guns (which are now ap -) at 15 points a model.

The new stuff + the old stuff being viable would ahve been cool. but a complete army re-do because the old stuff is either retarded or horribly costed = no thannks.