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luntan
24-08-2012, 15:50
Hi
We are 3 Fantasyplayers that wants to start 40K. Like it is now we dont have a clue about how strong the different armies in 40K are. We will try to get 3 armies in about the same range or is it better balance in 40 then in the imbalanced Fantasy (getting better but is still big difference between the races). We will later on get in to tournaments but must learn to play first.
So which armies/races is the ones that win the most tournaments?
Which armies/races dont perform well?
Is there many items that is banned/restricted in the tournaments?

A.T.
24-08-2012, 16:01
So which armies/races is the ones that win the most tournaments?
Which armies/races dont perform well?
Is there many items that is banned/restricted in the tournaments?It's all up in the air a bit after the change to 6th, going to take a while and a few books to settle down and for people to get a better handle on exactly who has come out on top.

Crons, GK, and IG are generally considered top of the pile.
The marine dexes run the range from a little over par (BA, SW) down to a little under par (DA - about to be redone, and the old mangled BT dex)
Dark eldar are solid, orks are good fun, daemons are hard to judge but got a few boosts and powerful new units.
Tau, nids, and eldar, and chaos marines are all viewed as a little under baked in various ways but have some very good individual units.
Sisters are N/A as the codex is out of print.

Best not to consider tournament performance if you are starting armies for friendly games. If you actually want to play and win tournaments for money go straight for the top dogs - Crons, IG, etc.

Forgeworld stuff is often banned at tournaments. Special characters sometimes but rarely. Tournaments may have other points scoring factors like quality of painting (so pick something within your ability to paint well) and sportsmanship (so turning up with cron-air may cost you places).


edit - it's worth adding that unless you are good now, or the local tournament players are not great, then any 'competative' army you pick today probably won't be by the time you are all painted up and good at the game.

Vedar
24-08-2012, 17:17
Top Armies IMHO are GK, Necrons, Space Wolves, and IG. Maybe even Blood Angles.
GK have a lot of dirty tricks and undercosted units. Units like Psyfileman dread are a no brainer.
Necrons were made to win in 6th ed, lots of solid units. Flyer spam is just ugly.
SW have a good number of undercosted units and some of the best psychers in the game for some reason. They are pretty much good at everything and cheap.
IG are the king of shooting in 6th where shooting is king.
Blood Angels (maybe on top) They have some really great units and IC. Why they might not be top is they are heavy on assault and assault took a hit in 6th.

The solid armies.
All other Space Marine armies. They don't have cheap/cool tricks as the GK/SW/BA do but SM in general are not a push over in the right hands.
CSM. Despite whats other say they never became weak. The 4th ed codex is depised for its lack of flavor and options, not its power level. I expect our new codex coming out in Sept/Oct will boost us up to top again.
Dark Eldar. Good solid fun codex. Lots of good options. Deadly in the right hands, but unforgiving of mistakes (you don't have a 3+ power armor save on everything)
Orks. Pretty dang solid and can do anything. Some people run all shooting and some run all assault. Most a mix. The new flyers are pretty dang nice for Orks. Only for players that like lots of models though.
Tyranids. I see them win too many games to be on the bottom. Sure some units suck but some are pretty sweet. Tyranids seem always a good fight to me.

Needing some love...

Chaos Daemons- They can be solid (if you roll well enough), but right now the codex is full of bad units. You will never see people play with furies or beast of nurgle. Assaut armies got a slap down 6th ed. Most Daemon armies I see are spam the good unit lists.
Eldar - 6th ed was a kick in the teeth. The backbone of the Eldar army was its very expesive vehicles and 6th ed made Eldar vechiles pop after 3 glances or pens. Eldar units are expensive and fragile and lost a lot of protection.
Tau - Tau have been the whipping boys of 40K for quite a while. While 6th gave them some things it took away others. Mostly they suffer from a very old codex with a bunch of worthless options and quite a few overcosted units. they probably need a new codex the most out of any.
Sisters of Battle. Probably the bottom. No real codex. Expenise $ models. Not a lot of options. They alway seem outclassed by just about every other army in the game.

That said I took my Daemons to a tournament and tied SW, lost to SM and beat CSM. Any army can win, just be prepaired to be beat a lot if you pick Daemons, Tau or Sisters until you learn to play them well.

hobbic_c
24-08-2012, 17:28
From the years I've been playing, I think that the best advice seems to still be what I was given when I started 40k... go for an army you like the look and story of, being able to play balanced games and being able to win will come with any army if you are into it. I think that's why orks still seem to do quite well despite the age of the book, as most ork players I've met got their ork armies cause they love the character of orks. Hell we even have a Tau player that like the philosophy behind them and still manages to do ok! I think the only armies I've not heard of people doing at least ok with recently have been sisters of battle and chaos demons...

btw... I still go by this, I use what is basically the same imperial guard army I've had since '99 and just ignored everyone when they've been saying that codex 'X' is rubbish and just get on with it through the whole of the 5th ed it only lost twice

Bonzai
24-08-2012, 18:24
I would suggest that you not base your army choices on current tournament choices. Instead base them on the theme and playstyle that apeals most to you as players. A 40K army is a significant investment, and their power waxes and wanes every so many years. So you might as well go with something that you enjoy, and then work on balancing between yourselves. For friendly play, most codexes work just fine.

To help you out here is a brief rundown of the armies.

Space Marines: They are concidered an elite army. They units are pricey, but tough. They are great generalists. Able to out fight a shooty army, and out shoot a combat army. As a result, their specialists may not be on the same level as other armies. Various options and playstyles can be done through special characters. Essentially a durable, yet flexible fighting force. Easy to learn, but with with degrees of mastery.

Dark Angels: About the same as Space Marines, but with a small twist. They can field an all terminator army.

Blood Angels: See Space marines, but with some variations. They have specialists that areREALLY good at assault, jump infantry as troops, and can take up to 6 predators. They also get easy access to FNP.

Black Templar: They are the oldest codex right now, and in dire need of an update. Essentially over priced marines with some assault benefits at the moment.

Space Wolves: I hate to say it, but these are Space Marines, but cheaper, better at assault, awesome shooting units, Psykers with potentially game breaking psychic powers (vs low initiative targets), and can also run an all terminator army.

Grey Knights: An all psyker army. Basic spacemarines ++, even more elite and more expensive. Can run a terminator army, but really excells at massed mid range shooting. Also extremely potent in assault with force weapons across the board, some at high initiative. Also has acess to Inquisitors and henchman for a unique list option.

Sisters of Battle: Nuns with guns. Space Marines lite, with an emphasis on flamers and meltas. Also have a unique "Faith" mechanic that adds flavor.

Imperial Guard: Ranged Horde army. It embodies the maxim of quantity over qaulity, though they aren't that shoddy either. They have access to tons of tanks and vehicles, as well as able to form the biggest infantry units in the game. Its also the go to army for those that want to play a regular human.

Now on to the non-imperial forces.

Tyranids: Assault Horde army. Ever see starship troopers? Yeah, its like that. Able to field lots and lots of little bugs, and quite a few large ones as well. Their shooting is a little below the bar compared to most codexes, but they do have some nasty assault capabilities. They have the greatest access to monsterous creatures, and have some of the best.

Orks: Assault Horde army. The 40k version of the fantasy Orcs. They primarily assault oriented, and are crappy shots. However the answer to any problem with Orks is; make it up in volume. Probably the most light hearted, tongue in cheek army, with endless conversion opportunities.

Tau: Ranged elite army. Tau focus on two things, mobility and high quality fire power. They go down like a cheap prom date to assault, but they have the most powerful shooting in the game.

Eldar: Specialist army. They are the opposite of Marines. They are relatively fragile, but have some amazing specialist units. Fire Dragons are awesome at anti tank, Howling Banshees are deadly in assault, guardians specialize in dying, etc... They have no real generalist units. They can also be very mobile. An Eldar general needs to be adept at positioning and making sure the right unit for the job is in the right place.

Dark Eldar: "glass hammer" style. Dark Eldar are fast, usually hard hitting, and very fragile. They can mass some amazing fire power, have some good assault capability, but cannot take too much punishment in return. So a Dark Eldar general needs to pick his battles and wipe units out quickly before they can be countered.

Necrons: Durable mid range army. Necrons are tough, and specialize in mid range fire power. They are the best anti-tank army out there right now, and have the greatest access to flyers at the moment. Their weakness is in assault, as they only have a coulple close combat specialists that excell. Necrons win by attrition more than anything.

Chaos Space Marines: New codex is incoming, so things may change up real quick. Mostly exil space marines with some twists and different units.

Chaos Daemons: An odd codex. It plays differently from any other codex out there. It has some interesting specialists, but is primarily an assault army. It also tied with Nids for being able to field the most flying monsterous creatures.

Um... I think that's all of them. As I said, I would focus on fluff and playstyle over tourny performance.

luntan
24-08-2012, 18:46
Thanks for the answers, they are realy helpful! :yes:
I wont go after how the armies fair in tournaments. Will get the one I like the most, have some that I like more and its the same for my friends. Thats why I asked for some advices so we can be around the same powerlevel in the beginning.
I know the power of an army changes when rules or books change, its the same in Fantasy. ;)