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View Full Version : New to 40K, want to build a Death Korps of Krieg army: Need some Advice



Singleton Mosby
25-08-2012, 14:01
For some 13 years I've been playing WHFB but never a single game of 40K. A few days ago I came across some pictures of Death Korps of Krieg minatures and was instantly sold. These models are awesome and I would like to build myself an army very much.

The models I like best and should be included in an army are:

- A Centaur
- The Leman Russ Vanquisher (the trench rail modification and the long gun make this a superb model)
- A Thudd Gun
- Perhaps an Earthshaker gun
- Death Riders
- Heavy Stubber
- Autocannon
- And infantry squads

Now, as I am completely new to 40K there are a lot of questions which follow:

- Which basic rulebooks do I need and is there a Krieg rulebook?
- What is the size of a normal battle/armylist (comparable to 2500 points Fantasy) and thus, how many squads and other units do I need for a good sized game?
- Can anybody suggest a starter armylist so I know what to buy
- Is there a cheaper (re-)seller of FW minis or do they have occasional sales? (FW is quite expensive.....)
- Are there any other models then the ones on the FW site, and are there any regular GW models?
- Is there a dedicated forum for this army or where should I head if I want to know more?

Thanks a lot in advance :)

the1stpip
25-08-2012, 14:14
Well, obviously you will need the Big 40k rulebook. There are FW rulebooks for Krieg, but most of the stuff can be fielded from the Imperial Guard codex.

The normal size of a 40k game is 1500 - 1750 in the UK (and most of Europe), up to 2k in the USA.

And as far as I know, no, there isn't a way of getting the minis cheaper except through ebay if you get lucky.

vladsimpaler
25-08-2012, 16:51
If you want an inexpensive army of DKoK and you don't mind a little extra work....

1. Buy one of these: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Guard/Death-Korps-of-Krieg/DEATH_KORPS_OF_KRIEG_INFANTRY_AND_ACCESSORIES/DEATH-KORPS-OF-KRIEG-INFANTRY-SQUADS-FOR-GORGON.html
2. Consult this thread: http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=58799
3. ???
4. PROFIT! With around 50 at ease DKoK troopers. I would recommend buying at least 2 more regular DKoK squads just to mix it up, and also I would recommend buying a good amount of the DKoK weapon upgrade packages (or) going on ebay to get your meltaguns and plasma guns.

Singleton Mosby
26-08-2012, 19:02
That's just a wonderfull way to complete some squads and get a good ammount of infantry at a decent price. Thanks a lot for the pointer!

Gertjan
26-08-2012, 23:09
You could use the basic Imperial Guard codex but that will mean that you have to forego some of the typical DkoK units. Best bet is to go with their army list, I think it's in the 1st or 2nd siege of Vraks book, not sure though.

As for the actual army list, I have no idea what would be good or not and, to be honest, with an army like Krieg I would mostly go for what really looks good rather than wat the meta says is good. It's an army made up mostly of infantry and heavy artillery carriages and less of tanks and vendetta's than normal guard armies.

molloch
27-08-2012, 12:31
I think you may want to download this pdf from Forgeworld
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/k/kreig.pdf
Checked it this morning and it is still live although not listed on the sites downloads list.
Should avoid the need for the 40 quid book containing the original version. This list will give you all the info you will need to put the army together, though of course not the rules for the game.

Any variant of the Imperial guard can get expensive, the sheer number of models that you can fit in an army is quite phenomenal. Be selective in your purchases and you can get a very impressive army without going bankrupt. Krieg are definitely a great choice, having a lot more character than many of the others, so I wish you luck and much joy with the army.

baphomael
27-08-2012, 14:07
Yea, you could go with the Imperial Guard codex for your army list, and it is a pretty solid codex at the mo. However, you'd be missing some of the trench fighting siege theme that comes in the Krieg army list.

As for resellers... you might occasionally strike lucky on eBay, but generally you'll have to get used to FW prices.

Fizzy
27-08-2012, 14:10
If you want centaur and thudd guns. Use the PDF download on FW. I myself got about 3000pts Dkok. Engieers and heavy mortars are some really awesome units in game. They kill a lot.

But I got a lot of money so I dont go the low way. I even bought the limited Dkok commissar death rider model of ebay. Around $75. The only normal models from GW I used are a demolisher and an inquisitor as a master of ordnance.

Vaktathi
27-08-2012, 16:28
For some 13 years I've been playing WHFB but never a single game of 40K. A few days ago I came across some pictures of Death Korps of Krieg minatures and was instantly sold. These models are awesome and I would like to build myself an army very much.

The models I like best and should be included in an army are:

- A Centaur
- The Leman Russ Vanquisher (the trench rail modification and the long gun make this a superb model)
- A Thudd Gun
- Perhaps an Earthshaker gun
- Death Riders
- Heavy Stubber
- Autocannon
- And infantry squads

Now, as I am completely new to 40K there are a lot of questions which follow:

- Which basic rulebooks do I need and is there a Krieg rulebook?
- What is the size of a normal battle/armylist (comparable to 2500 points Fantasy) and thus, how many squads and other units do I need for a good sized game?
- Can anybody suggest a starter armylist so I know what to buy
- Is there a cheaper (re-)seller of FW minis or do they have occasional sales? (FW is quite expensive.....)
- Are there any other models then the ones on the FW site, and are there any regular GW models?
- Is there a dedicated forum for this army or where should I head if I want to know more?

Thanks a lot in advance :)

You will need Imperial Armour Volume 5 at the least, 6 and 7 have some more fluff and a DKoK tank list but 5 has the Siege Regiment list.

Average battle varies, in the UK it's typically 1500, 2000 was the normal in the US in the last couple years until 6E and it now seems to be shifting back to 1750/1850 to avoid double FoC games.

A good starter army (from a building/purchasing perspective primarily) using the units that you listed above would be something like this for ~1000pts

HQ
Company Command Squad, 2 Meltaguns, Centaur

Elite
3x Thudd Guns


Troops


PCS, 2 special weapons+ Heavy Stubber or Autocannon
Infantry Squad w/1 special weapon
Infantry Squad w/1 special weapon
HWS w/Autocannons



PCS, 2 special weapons+ Heavy Stubber or Autocannon
Infantry Squad w/1 special weapon
Infantry Squad w/1 special weapon
HWS w/Autocannons

Heavy Support:
LR Vanquisher w/hull lascannon and co-ax Heavy Stubber (stubber gives you a reroll to hit with main gun if you hit with stubber)


As for re-sellers, sadly FW the cheapest place you'll get actual DKoK models, though several manufacturers make other greatcoat/gasmask/Stahlhelm style models.



When it comes to 6th edition and the strong aspects of the DKoK list, it's really in the artillery and cheap-ish lascannons. DKoK Lascannon teams are cheaper than standard IG ones (while everything else is more expensive) and DKoK Artillery (Thudd Guns, Heavy Mortars, Earthshakers, etc) are all *way* stronger than they were in 5th, in no small part due to being T7 W2 (W4 for the big HS guns!) instead of "av10 that dies if it's glanced", as well as barrage weapons allocating casualties from center of blast making them hilariously capable sniper weapons.

Also, another unit that's available to the DKoK but isn't in the list (was released later) is the Rapier laser destroyer from Forgeworld, functionally it's a very "enhanced" lascannon, and otherwise is an artillery unit just like the Thudd Guns (so T7 W2).

The Hades Breaching Drill is also a very effective AT weapon, if you take a couple squads of engineers with drills, the drills can handle some AT duty you might otherwise need more expensive units for while the engineers have some other useful aspects though are a bit pricey for what they do.

Fizzy
27-08-2012, 21:23
The engineers can be very effective wipe unit if you pick your enemy and just add gas grenades. The gas grenades can kill and they slow the enemy down so that you always strike first. So gas+shotguns and then charge will make a riot. Wiped out a Stormboyz squad in one go and the next time I wiped out a boyz squad of 10 with a nob. Just dont pick a super unit to charge.

Other than that enginners got mole launcher wich can be good. Never used it. But highly recommend engineers and a lot of artillery.

Singleton Mosby
28-08-2012, 11:00
Troops

PCS, 2 special weapons+ Heavy Stubber or Autocannon
Infantry Squad w/1 special weapon
Infantry Squad w/1 special weapon
HWS w/Autocannons

PCS, 2 special weapons+ Heavy Stubber or Autocannon
Infantry Squad w/1 special weapon
Infantry Squad w/1 special weapon
HWS w/Autocannons

I understood from the armylist Heavy Weapon platoons need their own command squad whilst you include them with the Infantry platoons. Did I read something incorectly?

Gertjan
28-08-2012, 11:02
Heavy weapon platoons need their own command iirc, when they are part of an infantry platoon there is no need for an additional command unit. That's what the Platoon command of the infantry platoon is there for.

Fizzy
28-08-2012, 11:20
Yes you can have for example 9 lascannons in one infantry platoon.

I got 3 autcannons and 3 lascannons in one of my infantry platoons.

Singleton Mosby
28-08-2012, 12:56
Thanks a lot for the answers. ;)

Axel
28-08-2012, 13:25
Take a look in the DKOK-thread linked in my signature. Its mainly about models and projects, but perhaps some old advice is in there, too.

The Vraks books have lot of background (especially the first), but the lists are kind of mediocre. I would go for the codex Guards and add units from the FW Apocalypse book. The Krieg army is not really what you call "tournament competetive", but I assume you are in for the fun, not for the winning.

Singleton Mosby
28-08-2012, 20:03
And yet another question: where can I find the rules for the Stubber and Heavy Stubber?

Vaktathi
28-08-2012, 20:06
And yet another question: where can I find the rules for the Stubber and Heavy Stubber?

Stubber or "stub gun"/etc uses the same profile as a lasgun. Heavy Stubber is in the IG codex as a vehicle upgrade.

A.T.
28-08-2012, 20:46
Yes you can have for example 9 lascannons in one infantry platoon.One big advantage over guard IMHO is that the infantry heavy weapons teams have the 'combined squad' rule. Plenty of ablative wounds for the cheap lascannons.

TheBearminator
28-08-2012, 21:19
Congratulations on your choice! I've just started my death korps army (20 soldiers and two sentinels at the moment). They're really spectacular models (got my first death rider a few days ago, wow!). But you might wanna pick up some green stuff as well if you're serious about them. My experience is that they don't always go together as well as they were intended... Good luck! Would be great to see some of your progress (is there a death korps pictures thread on the forum perhaps?).

Singleton Mosby
31-08-2012, 15:56
Got my first batch of minis yesterday and I just love them.

Another question about the armylist though.
In Imperial armour V it is allowed to take heavy weapon team with a platoon command squad. With the PDF from FW it is not and you can only take them as dedicated teams.
Which of the two should I use?

Vaktathi
31-08-2012, 16:02
I'd use the book personally, but it may be worth emailing FW or posting on their FB wall to ask about it.

Vlad Urkana
31-08-2012, 20:02
I think the pdf is officially the correct one. On the plus side it gives you access to orders which makes combining all 9 of your Heavy Weapon Teams with the rest of your platoon very mean. Yes I'll take 9 twin-linked lascannons protected by 20-60 ablative wounds thank you very much.

TheBearminator
31-08-2012, 21:03
I actually never thought of playing with death korps rules myself. From what I've heard forgeworld rules/units aren't very well balanced. But when I read through the pdf I get tempted. WS4 suits my idea of my own elite army. But what happened to veterans? And can you use valkyries and so on?

A question to those who play death korps with forgeworld rules. Is it a fun army to play? It seems very stationary to me (at least with a 5th glasses).

Vaktathi
31-08-2012, 21:21
The DKoK don't have "Veterans" in the general codex sense. Such troops are formed into Grenadier and Engineer squads, and the DKoK are specifically noted as not making use of airborne/drop troopers.

It is a very stationary army, it's an army built around artillery and trench warfare. Most of the list will be rather static with a few infiltration/Deep Strike elements (Engineers and Grenadiers) to disrupt the enemy line.

Vlad Urkana
31-08-2012, 22:39
The only real way to get anything airborne in a DKoK is to ally with either Elysians, regular IG, or an Armoured Company, which isn't a bad option at all.

TheBearminator
31-08-2012, 23:59
The only real way to get anything airborne in a DKoK is to ally with either Elysians, regular IG, or an Armoured Company, which isn't a bad option at all.

Armoured company? I may be out of bounds here, but armoured company was the vehicles only list that hasn't been allowed since the start of 5th, right? It was actually my first IG inspiration, an all tank army. I never got started though.

Vaktathi
01-09-2012, 02:23
Armoured company? I may be out of bounds here, but armoured company was the vehicles only list that hasn't been allowed since the start of 5th, right? It was actually my first IG inspiration, an all tank army. I never got started though.There was the Chapter Approved armored company list from like 2003/4, it was never specifically "disallowed", GW never said "you can't play this", but it never got updated. Imperial Armour Volume 1 has an updated similar list called the Armored Battlegroup and IA7 has a Krieg specific version (grenadiers and centaurs instead of stormtroopers and chimeras, no valks/vends, etc). Using those lists is no different than using the DKoK Siege Regiment infantry list.

Singleton Mosby
01-09-2012, 10:12
I think the pdf is officially the correct one. On the plus side it gives you access to orders which makes combining all 9 of your Heavy Weapon Teams with the rest of your platoon very mean. Yes I'll take 9 twin-linked lascannons protected by 20-60 ablative wounds thank you very much.

That might be true but as I've only a small collection of miniatures at the moment it is better to put some Heavy Weapons teams with HQ squads instead of having to get three of each right away if you want to make a squad.

CorinD
12-04-2013, 21:32
I know its very late, but the pdf list is the one to follow. They have the option of attaching heavy weapon teams to infantry squads which is very useful.
There are more lists due soon but the siege one will be the best for a long time, especially with a few allies. The key is the artillery, it's far too good now in 6th with a defence line, you put most of your crew in front of the artillery and any shots against the unit are at the artillery's toughness but with the crew's save and they get removed first. Relic is the only mission that might cause trouble for you but take allies if need be. Flyers can be taken with sabre defence platforms. Also use quad launchers, rapiers and earthshakers. Medusas may be tempting but other things will do their job and more, they are not barrage so cover can be taken. Placement of objectives can make a lot of difference but more often than not you'll kill so many of the enemy it doesn't matter.

Romark
24-05-2013, 14:53
I've been playing as Dark Angels for a few months (been in Fantasy realm for years, finally got a mate to come back to 40K!) and then i saw DKoK...

So, I've bought myself a starter model to get painted up :) While i get that done (and decide on the next one), any news of an update to the list? It would be good if GW saw the interest in these and gave them a Codex, or at least put them in the new IG one.

Vaktathi
24-05-2013, 15:59
There's a new list for DKoK Assault Brigades in IA12, siege regiment list should be updated soon but no word yet.

Disposable Hero
24-05-2013, 18:33
Ola compadres, that are in the know...

What makes an assault brigade different from a siege regiment?

Vaktathi
24-05-2013, 21:27
The assault brigade has Chimeras for one, it has Grenadiers as troops, does not have the big artillery carriages, has griffons and hydras as elites, HWS's are heavy support and not part of infantry platoons. The assault brigade can recycle infantry platoons if wiped out.

TL;DR the assault brigade is more mechanized and focused on elite infantry, the Siege regiment is more static and has a heavier emphasis on immobile artillery.

Disposable Hero
24-05-2013, 21:45
You, sir, are a gentleman.

Assaullt Bde seems worth investigating!

Avatar_exADV
24-05-2013, 23:15
Some of the special rules for the DKoK assault list are interesting. I kind of like the banner which scores you a victory point if the unit carrying it is wiped out in melee... or the "Forlorn Hope" special rule that lets you recycle dead infantry platoons and gives you a Krieg-only objective (2 VP for you if you claim it, 1 VP for the opponent if you don't... but it's in the opponent's deployment zone!)

You DO have access to flyers, but... only FW ones, no Vendetta or Valkyrie. Vulture's not a bad flyer but it's not broken the way the Vendetta is.

And you also have a Krieger warlord table.