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cornonthecob
25-08-2012, 18:45
I'm trying to create a count-as Squat army and I've been thinking about their fluff alot and also looking at some of the Home Made codexes , rules don't interest me that much as (rule wise) several armies more or less become indistinct. There are issues which (if it ever happens ) they would have to try and deal with if they ever re-released a 'Space Dwarf' faction.

Now first of all we have to look at the Squats, they lacked original ideas. This can be quite clearly seen in alot of their fluff, instead of doing as they did with the Eldar (not so much the Orks until 3rd ed) which was to transplant the races core ideals (Elves - Low numbers , declining, superior to humans in every way) and then working from that they copied a good number of Warhammer Fantasy Dwarf ideas into the Squats . Thunderers, Beserkers, Grugni etc. The few original ideas (Humans from the Golden Age of mankind left with all the knowledge intact) was rarely touched upon. Not only this but their link in with the Imperium made things difficult to separate them.

Not only this but any attempt at a re-release would be difficult as their original niches have been filled. The Norse race ? Space Wolves. Superior Tech race ? Necrons/Tau.

My ideas for the Space Dwarf is this. No grudges (other then the usual for a wargame), no Beserkers, no Grugni, no ale. The Space Dwarf is a mining race, technically adept (working with technology left over from the golden age of mankind) , ancestor worship (they did everything they could to ensure they had a liveable life, this evolves into worship) and they consider themselves true humans , everything the Imperium is an anathema to them, they are (to the Space Dwarf) a different species.

jack da greenskin
25-08-2012, 19:48
I've been running my squats, (mantic forgefathers) as tolkien-esque nordic dwarves, but in space. Counting as space wolves. Hell, they live in a mountainous icy planet, and have tunnelling pods instead of drop pods :')

paddyalexander
25-08-2012, 20:39
Take a look at the background material for them from Epic 40k, it fleshed them out a bit better. It actualy ended up failrly close to what you decided to go with.

Dwarf Supreme
31-08-2012, 03:50
Take a look at the background material for them from Epic 40k, it fleshed them out a bit better. It actualy ended up failrly close to what you decided to go with.

Actually, you would need to look at the background info in Space Marine/Titan Legions. When Epic 40k was released, Squats had been eliminated from the 40k universe.

Abaraxas
01-09-2012, 06:01
Id agree that they were fleshed out a lot better in space marine/epic, if GW still made them these days we would have termites etc in 40k scale and it wouldnt just be bikes and trikes.

Senbei
01-09-2012, 12:34
Didn't Armorcast do a Termite under license from GW? I might be wrong... That said, in Titan Legions you could still field Imperial Guard Landraider companies and your HQs came with Rhino transports (and this was whilst 3rd ed 40k was on the shelves).

Angelwing
01-09-2012, 13:04
Epicast did the termite (http://www.epicast.com/lostbanned/EpicastTermite.jpg) under licence.

Abaraxas
01-09-2012, 13:10
In danger of resetting the clock...

shelfunit.
01-09-2012, 13:49
Ramshackle Games do a good tunneler model (http://www.ramshacklegames.co.uk/gallery/ross_hubbard_01_big.jpg)too - although they are closed for a holiday currently.

Art Is Resistance
02-09-2012, 21:51
This can be quite clearly seen in alot of their fluff, instead of doing as they did with the Eldar (not so much the Orks until 3rd ed) which was to transplant the races core ideals.

So the Three RT Ork books on my shelf are a mirage?

Really must remember that next time I read them.....

Squats didn't work, but could have been amended with a small amount of work. The Demiurge angle was interesting.

Spectrar Ghost
02-09-2012, 23:43
So the Three RT Ork books on my shelf are a mirage?

Really must remember that next time I read them.....

Squats didn't work, but could have been amended with a small amount of work. The Demiurge angle was interesting.

From what I know of the RT Ork books they didn't really just do "Orcs in Space", but insterted a slew of new memes into the armies. In third they did revert back towards the "Orcs in Space" ideal some ways. I think this is the implication of the OP.

Angelwing
03-09-2012, 11:34
Ramshackle Games do a good tunneler model (http://www.ramshacklegames.co.uk/gallery/ross_hubbard_01_big.jpg)too - although they are closed for a holiday currently.

Ooo. Those look nice. Tempted by one now for my deathwatch team transport.

Jo Bennett
06-09-2012, 20:54
Didn't Armorcast do a Termite under license from GW? I might be wrong... That said, in Titan Legions you could still field Imperial Guard Landraider companies and your HQs came with Rhino transports (and this was whilst 3rd ed 40k was on the shelves).

Given that Epic 40k was released before 3rd ed 40k, this seems unlikely.

frozenwastes
08-09-2012, 06:19
It was after the game was out of print, but before Epic:Armageddon had been released. It wasn't in Space Marine/Titan Legions though, it was in Epic 40,000.

Senbei
09-09-2012, 23:38
Given that Epic 40k was released before 3rd ed 40k, this seems unlikely.

I could have sworn that E40k was a later release... I can't say I paid the game much attention after the first few months of trying to get the new rules to play decently. It was just so.... BAD. Possibly the worst written core game -EVER-*.


*this is coming from a big fan of 2nd ed, so take that as you will. Let's just say that, other than E40k, no other core game has managed to kill itself. Yet.

sigur
10-09-2012, 00:45
Sure, do whatever you like with Space Dwarves. They aren't there at the present (yes, yes, new rulebook mentions them. Cute nod, nothing more), they won't return as an army and as Squats, proceed as you please. Squats had the problem that they would have had their turn to become more defined after GW had fallen out of love with WHFB dwarves as well. And of course that amongst the 40k design team, nobody really had any sparkling ideas for them. I'm okay to use Squats as they were (which of course is also just my personal interpretations based on the sources that were released then).

Nice models for Squats (apart from Ramshackle models who also got excellent stuff for Orks): Bob Olley's ranges, Hasslefree Grymn.

Lockjaw
20-09-2012, 04:35
check out the death of the squats threads, the main one on the background got pretty big, it hasn't really been posted in for awhile since I think anything people had to say about them was said, aside from the detracters who would just post to inform everyone that they did not like squats. Still alot of good ideas for squat background in that thread.

and the new rulebook mentions squats, screw their fake extermination far as I say!

Senbei
26-09-2012, 23:28
Just feel that I should highlight this: The Troll Trader (an e-bay retailer I've dealt with a lot in the past) is selling the Mantic Warpath starter Boxes, "Fate of the Forge Star", for 25. What does this have to do with Squats? The box set includes 16 rather nice multi-part plastic 'Forge Father' space dwarves and something that looks a lot like a thudd gun (as well as 40 Orx... lazy naming... and an Orx war-trike/buggy thing).

paddyalexander
27-09-2012, 07:23
(as well as 40 Orx... lazy naming... and an Orx war-trike/buggy thing).

Yes very lazy, like changing the C in Orc (a fantasy monster created by Tolkien inspired by traditional folklore) to K and putting Space in front of it. :angel:

Mantic also do army box deals of just the Fordge Fathers that are pretty reasonable even at full retail.

Senbei
27-09-2012, 12:45
Yes very lazy, like changing the C in Orc (a fantasy monster created by Tolkien inspired by traditional folklore) to K and putting Space in front of it. :angel:

Well... I was more chasing the fact that they are esthetically very similar to GW Orks. GW at least had their own take on the orc before they whacked a 'K' on it and sent it into orbit.


Mantic also do army box deals of just the Fordge Fathers that are pretty reasonable even at full retail.

Very true, I was going to get some then decided that I might as well spend the same amount and get a load of Orx for free. The box contains 16 plastic Dorf foot-grunts, 5 plastic Elite types and a big field gun. I mis-counted before because I'd dropped the elites and the bag had fallen behind a figure case. >_>

21 Dorfs and a big gun for 25 is pretty neat. Free P&P too. Considering buying another if the offer is still on after my next pay-day.

Grimbad
27-09-2012, 17:16
It actually really bugs me that the Forge Fathers offer nothing to anyone who actually wants a Squats army. They're fine for people enamored with Squats as this internet phenomenon, but they have very little to do with what Squats actually were on the tabletop.

Senbei
27-09-2012, 17:46
.....they have very little to do with what Squats actually were on the tabletop.

Squats were an RT and 2nd ed thing. All the Forge Father models offer are infantry, artillery and a dreadnought type walker. All of these can be fielded in an RT squat army. In a 2nd ed squat army you could field their Thudd Gun thingy and use the Elites as Hearthguard. I couldn't tell you if combat squads could be upgraded to wear carapace (at least not without having to dig out my copy of the black codex lists book).

So you can use some but not really use others. The warpath rules seem pretty basic... I don't think I'll be using them... I've been wrong in the past though.

Grimbad
28-09-2012, 21:21
What I said was based on wishing there were some cheap squats to work with the Black Codex list (it's a fun if minimal list to play with), and Mantic's dwarves really can't. They aren't meant to do that at all, just to feed off certain people's obsession with the whole bring back the squats! thing.
Thudd Guns in the 2e rules are self-propelled on a small robotic chassis with separate crew following behind, so the artillery piece isn't a very good fit for that out of the box. Adequate, I guess, but the Thunderfire cannon is the closest of the available options, even more than Forgeworld's quad cannons. Regular squat warrior squads can't take armor other than Flak or any basic weapons other than a lasgun- and the most basic Mantic dwarfs are wearing some kind of thick plate and using some kind of chunky machine gun. The hearthguard are the only proxy that really works.

Senbei
28-09-2012, 22:23
Ah, my bad. In the RT Red-Book lists squats could be armed with all sorts of rubbish and came with a ton of grenades... all of which made them horribly over-costed. Playing from the main rulebook allowed you to equip them however you liked though.

Ebon
02-10-2012, 08:50
I still think Squats should be brought back as abhuman allies in the IG codex, trike riding Squats as an alternative to Rough Riders.

Importman
02-10-2012, 09:12
Don't ever bring them back. As I recall back in the late 80's all the squats looked like bikers in space. In my gaming group back then only a single kid played squats and he also happened to be a cheesy gamer.
I am glad that they are gone.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

Senbei
03-10-2012, 12:36
Don't ever bring them back. As I recall back in the late 80's all the squats looked like bikers in space. In my gaming group back then only a single kid played squats and he also happened to be a cheesy gamer.
I am glad that they are gone.


By this philosophy in 9th ed Grey Knights, Chaos Daemons, Eldar, Orks and Imperial Guard should all be written out of 40k because I've met power-gamers who've abused the lists for all of these forces. Oh, and we should all be glad that there will only be Marines. 40,000 varieties of them!

Hengist
05-10-2012, 17:06
It's a very slim hope, but Forge World did say that once they had done each extant faction once in the Imperial Armour books (only Necrons to go, and possibly Tzeentch and Slaanesh Marines/Cults to go), they might move onto creating new armies or reviving defunct ones; they brought Chaos Dwarfs back, after all... and there was (probably a test sculpt, but you never know) a Genestealer Magus on show at Games Day.

AndrewGPaul
09-10-2012, 12:54
Didn't someone say they were simply test sculpts by new trainees? I remember speaking to an Italian guy who had a hand in the new plastic Tzeentch Horrors at Caledonian Conflict a few years ago; he'd brought along some new Tallarn models, including one with a flamer, that he'd sculpted up. An exact match for the existing metal range, but they'll never see the inside of a casting machine.

sweetdaddyg
09-10-2012, 17:38
Weird, I find this thread just as I find an old squat mini with no arms laying under the sink in my house....

paddyalexander
09-10-2012, 22:41
I came across two thirds of a trike in a big box of my old legos a week ago when I was babysitting my nephews and wanted something to entertain them.

Senbei
11-10-2012, 11:41
Weird, I find this thread just as I find an old squat mini with no arms laying under the sink in my house....

The arms often cost more than the miniatures. An e-bay seller had a load for 15 a sprue and sold them all. :P