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medevilmike
25-08-2012, 21:21
Ok, so I have just started teaching my wife to play the hammer, last saturday was our first game 1k beasts on beasts(was being lazy on taking out other armys). I figured we would just play it and id explain as we go, needless to say it was harder than possible while i just marched to my death on purpose to shorten my turns while she learned.

Here is my question, how do I make it easy to teach a new person? lower point costs? maybe add a different army? I have a decent sum of most armys so specific small learn lists would help to

mrtn
25-08-2012, 22:54
How about starting with just parts of the game? Just some infantry that can duke it out, without shooting and magic, and then you can add other stuff when you guys feel ready.

ftayl5
25-08-2012, 22:59
500pts is a better level as there is less complication, you can focus on the few units you have and aren't liable to being overly flustered or intimidated.
The games are also quicker meaning you can have more of them and you and her are less likely to get bored halfway through.

Using 2 different armies might be a good idea too, so long as the 2 armies are pretty balanced then it should be fine.
I'd also advise having a theory session first too, that's how I've taught people. Read/tell them the basic rules and how the game works, then play a game and explain the finer bits as we go along.

DareX2
26-08-2012, 00:32
Start by building a series of lessons based on the basics of the game. For example, start by teaching her the basics of movements, stats and combat. Choose two units to put on the field: one for you, one for her. If you have a collection, let her pick her unit from your collection (she'll have more fun playing with minis she likes). You take something generic (ungors, for example). Then focus on teaching her the basics of the movement phase, including advancing, marching, wheeling, etc. Once there's combat, you teach her the basics of combat (reference charts, stats, how to work out who goes first, who wins combat, etc.). Once one unit is broken and run down, the game ends.

Next game, add in a shooting unit. Game after that, a mage. Try and take the same units every game, and always be building on the last principle. Be as minimalistic as possible with the lists (ie keep the points low, keep the special rules as sparse as possible, etc.). Keep adding elements until she's learned the game. Make sure to slow your own pace down to make sure she's following. Every time a roll to hit or to wound is made, make her consult the appropriate chart (for both your turn and her turn). Every time combat tallies are being done, make her count the combat res for both units. Every time you make a roll, get her to pick out the dice that succeeded.

It shouldn't take long for her to learn if your approach is slow, patient, and systematic. Also, one of the starter sets had a quick tutorial booklet that may help, if I remember correctly.

Cap'n Facebeard
26-08-2012, 08:08
I'll add my 2 cents, that there has to be some interest there already for a new person to get into a game. I had a few ideas once to get my wife interested and thought I would start with an easier game, so I picked Warhammer Quest. My wife's impression? "Jesus, how many rules are there?" So I tried Heroquest instead. But the problem, I noticed, was that she really wasn't interested. My wife is not a hobby hater and has actually talked me out of selling stuff in the past. And she used much less swearwords than when I tried to teach my father Magic: The Gathering.

medevilmike
26-08-2012, 12:25
lol, thank you guys for responding. I will give the one unit training session a try, sounds like it will be the easiest way to approach this, and ill have to try and dig out one of my isle of blood books and see if they have anything of use in em.

Jind_Singh
26-08-2012, 17:11
Go with the GW style of play - have a small army each, say 3-500 points.

I would have:

Level 1 mage with signature spell, I love lore of fire as it's visually very easy for someone to understand, there are 3 levels of the spell so they understand the value of casting level.
Hero to lead the army ***Unless it's a lowly character army like Goblins in which case I'd go lord***
BSB hero

Keep them with basic equipment - don't go for any magic items - this is important as you want the game to flow

2 rank & file units - but keep them smaller sized - if they are elites like Warriors of Chaos keep them at say 15, Empire troopers at say 25-30
Single Warmachine
1 unit of cav
1 shooting unit

When you play the games remember the motto...

1) fast
2) fun
3) furious
4) fours

1) Keep it fast - let the game flow, don't make the wife refer to rules/books too often, just tell her the rules, I like to go 1st turn so that way the newbie can watch how it's done. Don't quibble over mechanical details - if the wheel isn't parade ground quality it's ok! After say 3 games you can then tidy up areas - but the aim is not to bog a player down with too many rules as they will get turned off the game
2) Keep it fun! Don't do pitched battle - set a shorter turn limit for e.g. and have a specific objective - this is why I love Watch Tower providing the 2 armies are balanced, or I'll put an objective (kill general, capture supplies), when you roll dice don't talk mechanics talk about hacking off heads and limbs!
3) Keep it furious!!! Don't deploy the full24" away from each other - get stuck in RIGHT away in turn 1!!! This builds excitement - and once the excitiment takes hold the newbie is more likely to want to expand and develop the hobby on their own!
4) The rule of 4's!! Don't interupt the flow of the game for too long - if it requires you stop play and consult various rules, FAQs, books to find out if something can be done just roll the dice and 4+ it!

Once you've done a few games like this you should, hopefully, have instilled some enthusiasm into the dear lady about playing - once that happens see what army she wants, grab a battle box - and you're off to the races!!!

Lesson 2 - teaching her to paint!!!!

-Totenkopf-
27-08-2012, 06:19
Go with the GW style of play - have a small army each, say 3-500 points.

I would have:

Level 1 mage with signature spell, I love lore of fire as it's visually very easy for someone to understand, there are 3 levels of the spell so they understand the value of casting level.
Hero to lead the army ***Unless it's a lowly character army like Goblins in which case I'd go lord***
BSB hero

Keep them with basic equipment - don't go for any magic items - this is important as you want the game to flow

2 rank & file units - but keep them smaller sized - if they are elites like Warriors of Chaos keep them at say 15, Empire troopers at say 25-30
Single Warmachine
1 unit of cav
1 shooting unit

When you play the games remember the motto...

1) fast
2) fun
3) furious
4) fours

1) Keep it fast - let the game flow, don't make the wife refer to rules/books too often, just tell her the rules, I like to go 1st turn so that way the newbie can watch how it's done. Don't quibble over mechanical details - if the wheel isn't parade ground quality it's ok! After say 3 games you can then tidy up areas - but the aim is not to bog a player down with too many rules as they will get turned off the game
2) Keep it fun! Don't do pitched battle - set a shorter turn limit for e.g. and have a specific objective - this is why I love Watch Tower providing the 2 armies are balanced, or I'll put an objective (kill general, capture supplies), when you roll dice don't talk mechanics talk about hacking off heads and limbs!
3) Keep it furious!!! Don't deploy the full24" away from each other - get stuck in RIGHT away in turn 1!!! This builds excitement - and once the excitiment takes hold the newbie is more likely to want to expand and develop the hobby on their own!
4) The rule of 4's!! Don't interupt the flow of the game for too long - if it requires you stop play and consult various rules, FAQs, books to find out if something can be done just roll the dice and 4+ it!

Once you've done a few games like this you should, hopefully, have instilled some enthusiasm into the dear lady about playing - once that happens see what army she wants, grab a battle box - and you're off to the races!!!

Lesson 2 - teaching her to paint!!!!


This is the absolute best way to do it!!!

Arnizipal
27-08-2012, 22:25
Go with the GW style of play - have a small army each, say 3-500 points.

I would have:

Level 1 mage with signature spell, I love lore of fire as it's visually very easy for someone to understand, there are 3 levels of the spell so they understand the value of casting level.
Hero to lead the army ***Unless it's a lowly character army like Goblins in which case I'd go lord***
BSB hero

Keep them with basic equipment - don't go for any magic items - this is important as you want the game to flow

2 rank & file units - but keep them smaller sized - if they are elites like Warriors of Chaos keep them at say 15, Empire troopers at say 25-30
Single Warmachine
1 unit of cav
1 shooting unit

When you play the games remember the motto...

1) fast
2) fun
3) furious
4) fours

1) Keep it fast - let the game flow, don't make the wife refer to rules/books too often, just tell her the rules, I like to go 1st turn so that way the newbie can watch how it's done. Don't quibble over mechanical details - if the wheel isn't parade ground quality it's ok! After say 3 games you can then tidy up areas - but the aim is not to bog a player down with too many rules as they will get turned off the game
2) Keep it fun! Don't do pitched battle - set a shorter turn limit for e.g. and have a specific objective - this is why I love Watch Tower providing the 2 armies are balanced, or I'll put an objective (kill general, capture supplies), when you roll dice don't talk mechanics talk about hacking off heads and limbs!
3) Keep it furious!!! Don't deploy the full24" away from each other - get stuck in RIGHT away in turn 1!!! This builds excitement - and once the excitiment takes hold the newbie is more likely to want to expand and develop the hobby on their own!
4) The rule of 4's!! Don't interupt the flow of the game for too long - if it requires you stop play and consult various rules, FAQs, books to find out if something can be done just roll the dice and 4+ it!

Once you've done a few games like this you should, hopefully, have instilled some enthusiasm into the dear lady about playing - once that happens see what army she wants, grab a battle box - and you're off to the races!!!

Already sounds pretty advanced for somebody who has no experience in the game at all.
Shooting and magic sounds fun to us, but it's a ton of extra rules to learn for somebody who at the same time has to deal with basics like statlines and how movement works.

Looking at the introductory games in the starter set is a good idea.
Movement (and possibly close combat) in the first game, shooting in the second and magic in the third.
DareX2 had some good suggestions.

Jind_Singh
28-08-2012, 06:04
when folks walked into the store and I ran demos we used the full gambit - it's pretty easy once you show them how - and at 1st the ideas not to teach rules but just to showcase the game and have some fun - once their interest level is raised is when you start working on the game itself - and that's when you can scale back the complexity if you so wish.

But making them roll 2D6 for magic and casting a spell is easy - and it's very visual so it adds a lot of fun and excitement!

Grey Seer Kwokka
28-08-2012, 07:12
The simple fact is that you likely won't cover everything in-depth in the one match. Learning something new takes time.

I had my very first two matches just last weekend and I caught on to a lot of the nuances, yet still made an incredible amount of mistakes; forgot integral special rules, etc. etc. Honestly, it's better to take a game or two at a time casually, then try to recap on what you did right and what you did wrong. This is best done by reviewing your rulebooks on where you might have been most perplexed during those games.

Host Tar
28-08-2012, 13:33
Thanks for the tips! I think i'll try some of these things out myself

Daniel36
28-08-2012, 13:37
Don't build a list. 1 hero, no items, 2 units, close combat only. Play three matches.
1 hero, add item, 3 units, one with bows, one small unit for teaching panic tests maybe... Play three matches
Add a wizard.
Add a monster.

Probably the best way.

Warrior of Chaos
29-08-2012, 02:51
You could just train the person by phase using 500-750pt list.

1) Demonstrate the movement phase and it's nuances. (Practice to maneuvers and rolls for charges..etc.)
2) Demonstrate the magic phase and how it works. Cast few spells and do some dispelling.
3) Demonstrate the shooting phase...
4) Demonstrate CC and practice a few with different types of units.

5) Play one full game turn including all the phases. Critique and repeat.
6) Show and explain peripheral rules (deployment, buildings, terrain..etc....)
7) Play a game - minimum rules and length (only go to turn 3 and provide feedback) This keeps it short and allows for more practice deploying and making decisive actions happen early in the game.
8) Play a full game....
9) Don't talk List building and whatnot until the game itself has sunk in.


I say make it methodical because as an instructor myself, I find repetition is sometimes the best teacher. Don't get in a hurry to play full games. Take a day or two to get the basics in check.

Horus38
30-08-2012, 22:14
I'll add my 2 cents, that there has to be some interest there already for a new person to get into a game. I had a few ideas once to get my wife interested and thought I would start with an easier game, so I picked Warhammer Quest. My wife's impression? "Jesus, how many rules are there?" So I tried Heroquest instead. But the problem, I noticed, was that she really wasn't interested. My wife is not a hobby hater and has actually talked me out of selling stuff in the past. And she used much less swearwords than when I tried to teach my father Magic: The Gathering.

QFT, there needs to be some spark of interest from the other person. Not to say there isn't, just make sure it's not "Hey, learn my hobby so we can both enjoy it!"

Rathkarn
30-08-2012, 22:26
when folks walked into the store and I ran demos we used the full gambit - it's pretty easy once you show them how - and at 1st the ideas not to teach rules but just to showcase the game and have some fun - once their interest level is raised is when you start working on the game itself - and that's when you can scale back the complexity if you so wish.

But making them roll 2D6 for magic and casting a spell is easy - and it's very visual so it adds a lot of fun and excitement!

Yeppers. Ex GW redshirt here too. Why not pop into your local store and try out or watch how a demo game is run? They're normally geared up to be a 15 min overview to try and lure you into the warm seductive embrace of the 'Hammer :) A shooty and a stubby unit each, hero, maybe war machine or wizard. Starting 12" apart. Inject a bit of humour or game for doing the dishes :P

Game over man. Game over.

GrandmasterWang
31-08-2012, 02:30
I have always started with a 1 on 1 character combat. Teaches initiative, to hit, saves, wounds etc. This is for a complete nub. After a couple of rounds then introduce movement and charges.

This way I have gotten people completely not into the game into it. They just pick 1 character (who they like and can attach to) and build up from there. Starting so low ensures they understand, and more importantly care about the rolls. I leave magic for last. Even shooting with the ranges and modifiers can be confusing for first timers so this is my next step after going through larger combats

phoenixguard09
06-09-2012, 01:19
I taught my girlfriend two weeks ago now, 7th ed though because I still don't like 8th. :P She saw my models one night and asked if she could have a go at painting. Turned out she's pretty good at that. After painting for about three hours she asked if I'd teach her how to play. I said next time. Anyway, the next weekend I had two lists sorted out, fairly small armies, but gave her a slight edge with a Dwarf & Bretonnian alliance against an Orcs & Goblins army. As usual when I play O&G I forgot about Animosity but it didn't really matter, she wiped the floor with me. :P

I decided when I set up the lists that neither of us would have magic, monsters or magic items, thinking that its probably a bit early to go with that.

Her list:
Dwarf Thane
Bretonnian Paladin
Bretonnian Herald (Peasant foot Hero)
15 Dwarf Warriors
8 Bretonnian Realm Knights
10 Dwarf Thunderers
19 Bretonnian Men at Arms
Dwarf Cannon

Two large-ish units of infantry, one I made sure to inform her was an "anvil," which she could use to hold my guys up. A unit of dudes with guns so she got an idea regarding how normal shooting works. A big heavy cavalry unit because she loves knights. A cannon because I figured that guess-ranging is fun and cannons are less complicated than stone throwers. :P

I don't remember my list but I had a Black Orc Boss and a Night Goblin Boss for my characters, a fair few Night Goblins, a unit of Black Orcs and 2 Trolls. Oh and a unit of 10 converted Cave Spide Riders. I figured that I should probably outnumber her so that her victory would be all the sweeter and the Trolls and Black Orcs had to be something tough that she could focus on killing. Very important really, to give the new player something tough that they can fel good about destroying. ;)

Anyway, she one convincingly and quite enjoyed it. The most important thing of all though is to let the player know what you didn't put in that first game (artillery, magic, magic items, etc.) so they can build a bit of excitement for it. For instance, Steph's really looking forward to using a dragon at some stage.

I'm sorry, this post ended up much larger than I intended. :P Oh well, hopefully it helps.