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Ordo Hydra
26-08-2012, 16:31
Hiya all, not posted for a while so thought I would start now. A while back there was a rumour that there was going to be a new alien army for 40K in the form of the Hrud for 6th Edition. Don't think anything has been heard of it since that time and seemed like wishful thinking. But thats a separate point though there is the whole stuff about allies in the 6th Edition and the Hrud could potentially feature. However, the reason for this topic is lets assume the Hrud feature in the game. Either as a full army or as allies. The question is, what approach one could take with them? How would you make them different and have a unique role in the battlefield? What would their endgame be? What kind of units would you envision? And what kind of fluff would you add to them?

Pentregarth
26-08-2012, 16:51
I actually don't think the Hrud should get their own codex. They're scavengers, not a space-faring race (at least not on their own spaceships), nor are they interested in the common reasons for warfare, apart from self-defense, and as far as I know, there aren't any Hrud settlements that would justify an entire army of them marching to war.
Maybe an option for a squad of Hrud mercenaries, although even that would be somewhat anti-canon, as far as I know (I mean, there are no full-blown kroot armies, if you discount the ages-old warband list, and those guys have a full planet and their own spaceships to boot)

Lothlanathorian
26-08-2012, 17:43
A 'Kroot army' may not be a Kroot army beyond the fact that it's all Kroot. They could still be mercenaries that have been hired, but, are currently acting in theater by themselves at the behest of their employer. Tabletop battles in 40K don't represent an entire war, just one, single, small skirmish.

I do agree, though, that the Hrud have never been made out to be a full on military and that a squad or two as allies sounds about right. Then again, Necrons used to have all of 4 units, were only 'raiders' and Dark Eldar were just Eldar pirates without much of any unique history and the Tau didn't even have background mention until they had an entire Codex. Stranger things than the Hrud suddenly having different fluff and getting to be a full army have happened.

Scalebug
26-08-2012, 17:47
It is a fallacy to say that there is no "full-blown" armies, of something so that something should not be in the game; It just have to be feasible for it to appear in large enough groups for a 40K force to justify it being there, and that is not much.

Not everything have to be a galactic scale menace force...

Ordo Hydra
26-08-2012, 18:19
A 'Kroot army' may not be a Kroot army beyond the fact that it's all Kroot. They could still be mercenaries that have been hired, but, are currently acting in theater by themselves at the behest of their employer. Tabletop battles in 40K don't represent an entire war, just one, single, small skirmish.

I do agree, though, that the Hrud have never been made out to be a full on military and that a squad or two as allies sounds about right. Then again, Necrons used to have all of 4 units, were only 'raiders' and Dark Eldar were just Eldar pirates without much of any unique history and the Tau didn't even have background mention until they had an entire Codex. Stranger things than the Hrud suddenly having different fluff and getting to be a full army have happened.

Indeed, much of the Hrud stuff paints them as being simple scavengers that hide from their enemies though interestingly we do have numerous mentions of them being fought in large numbers. Example being the purging of a Hrud warren by the Iron Warriors in the time of the Great Crusade. I'm not advocating that Hrud should feature as an army or not as an army. Just that we have seen things introduced in prior fluff that became something much more. Chaos Androids morphed into Necrons that changed from being automatons under the control of cosmic vampires to squabbling dynastic kingdoms. So, it has happened before and we have seen more mention of Hrud in recent times such as in Imperial Armour where we see how devastating a Hrud migration can be that they can destroy entire homeworlds of a Space Marines Chapter.

So, if Hrud did feature in some shape or form, I was wondering how they could be made unique without treading on another factions steps.

Lothlanathorian
26-08-2012, 20:13
Are the Hrud the ones with the 'shadow aura' or some such or is that the Umbra somethingorother?

Lupe
26-08-2012, 22:49
I'm going to throw my two cents in, but I think I'd be okay with the Hrud having their own Codex.

Do they check the threat box of the prerequisites list? Yes. Sure, they're vermin, but there's so many of them, with a great potential for infestations, and they're so hard to wipe out that I could see the Imperium being more than a bit concerned about them... The only thing that lowers them on the scale of priorities is that they're usually content to be left alone to their own devices. That doesn't preclude them from actually harming the Imperium if left unchecked mind you - that Entropic field can potentially doom whole star systems...
Do they check the horror part? Hell yeah. They give off an aura that withers matter around them. Flesh, metal, stone, you name it, they cripple it... And they're not even trying. That's a freaking defense mechanism. You could be herding them through a tunnel from a distance, and you'd still come off worse for wear... How cool and unimaginably scary is that? To put things into context. They can even turn a Space Marine into a sickly old man, in the span of months. Damn! We don't even have any proof that marines should be able to age in the first place... Dante's been around for a millennium, and he's still fresh and ready to curve stomp someone. And these lowly rodents can wear you down ten times that much in a fraction of the time... The only time another marine has been reduced to this is in one of the Salamanders books, and he's spent ten thousand years of deprivation... Scary stuff, right here...

Now, I know you're thinking they're not a warrior race. Guess what. Neither are the Tyranids. Their motivations differ, of course. Tyranids really do want to strip the Galaxy of all organic matter, while the Hrud just want to be left alone. The thing is, I very much happen to think that Hrud stand the greatest chance of stopping the Tyranids at all. Think about it. When the basic troops of your race are designed to live a few days, what would even a weak Entropic aura do to your forces? That's right... Wither them down into basic organic matter, and thinning your ranks without even trying. Whatsmore, the Hrud may not have sophisticated tech, but their entropic field grows according to their numbers. From the few descriptions we have of the race, I'd assume at an exponential rate, but even a linear rate is not to be taken lightly. But here's the thing... Trying to wipe them out just triggers a migration, bringing even more of the critters together, strenthening their aura.

Anyway, the guys area potential threat and a scary as hell race. Plus - although I may be remembering things wrong - they have some innate tech abilities and at least part of them specialize in warfare (if the picture in an old book depicting a Hrud warrior among other xeno races is anything to go by). I think the only reason they're not ruling the galaxy yet is because they're quite happy to be left alone, and they're left alone because everybody else has bigger, more aggressive things to worry about.

Bannik
27-08-2012, 00:29
The hrud look like deep sea fish. In the autopsy picture.

The Dude
27-08-2012, 06:01
This discussion is more appropriate in 40K General.

Thread moved.

The Dude
The Warseer Inquisition

mrtn
27-08-2012, 12:28
The question is which version of Hrud you're talking about. Is it the space skaven or the hiding dark types?

Ordo Hydra
27-08-2012, 14:07
This discussion is more appropriate in 40K General.

Thread moved.

The Dude
The Warseer Inquisition

Thank you :) I wasn't sure if this was good for general or background since its covering background as well but this is fine.


The question is which version of Hrud you're talking about. Is it the space skaven or the hiding dark types?

The current hiding dark types since those are the ones that are commonly seen. We know that they have been known at least as far back as the Great Crusade and since then numerous Imperial campaigns have involved exterminating them. The Iron Warriors did it before they went traitor and I believe the Salamanders did as well. The Imperial Guard did but had to retire the unit because the Hrud's entropic fields aged them to the point that they could not fight anymore. A Hrud migration also drove some Orks mad and led to the destruction of a Space Marines homeworld and forced them to flee with what they had though they were commended for their actions. So, we can see the common things are infestation, entropic fields and that migrations are bad for anyone in the path of a Hrud force.

Beyond that, we know that some Inquisitors have courted the Hrud for some knowledge and there were a pair of Hrud on a Tau world in one of the novels though this was before they had the entropic fields. So, whether that means all Hrud have the entropic fields or some do is another question. Certainly, Xenology never mentioned it but that book did say that the Hrud secrete chemicals that dissolve their bodies and they can get humans addicted to them. Xenology also said that the Hrud engaged in numerous migrations and that entire societies of them were quite capable of living a shadow existence on an Imperial world without anyone aware of them.

konnor
27-08-2012, 15:29
I'm going to throw my two cents in, but I think I'd be okay with the Hrud having their own Codex.

Do they check the threat box of the prerequisites list? Yes. Sure, they're vermin, but there's so many of them, with a great potential for infestations, and they're so hard to wipe out that I could see the Imperium being more than a bit concerned about them... The only thing that lowers them on the scale of priorities is that they're usually content to be left alone to their own devices. That doesn't preclude them from actually harming the Imperium if left unchecked mind you - that Entropic field can potentially doom whole star systems...
Do they check the horror part? Hell yeah. They give off an aura that withers matter around them. Flesh, metal, stone, you name it, they cripple it... And they're not even trying. That's a freaking defense mechanism. You could be herding them through a tunnel from a distance, and you'd still come off worse for wear... How cool and unimaginably scary is that? To put things into context. They can even turn a Space Marine into a sickly old man, in the span of months. Damn! We don't even have any proof that marines should be able to age in the first place... Dante's been around for a millennium, and he's still fresh and ready to curve stomp someone. And these lowly rodents can wear you down ten times that much in a fraction of the time... The only time another marine has been reduced to this is in one of the Salamanders books, and he's spent ten thousand years of deprivation... Scary stuff, right here...

Now, I know you're thinking they're not a warrior race. Guess what. Neither are the Tyranids. Their motivations differ, of course. Tyranids really do want to strip the Galaxy of all organic matter, while the Hrud just want to be left alone. The thing is, I very much happen to think that Hrud stand the greatest chance of stopping the Tyranids at all. Think about it. When the basic troops of your race are designed to live a few days, what would even a weak Entropic aura do to your forces? That's right... Wither them down into basic organic matter, and thinning your ranks without even trying. Whatsmore, the Hrud may not have sophisticated tech, but their entropic field grows according to their numbers. From the few descriptions we have of the race, I'd assume at an exponential rate, but even a linear rate is not to be taken lightly. But here's the thing... Trying to wipe them out just triggers a migration, bringing even more of the critters together, strenthening their aura.

Anyway, the guys area potential threat and a scary as hell race. Plus - although I may be remembering things wrong - they have some innate tech abilities and at least part of them specialize in warfare (if the picture in an old book depicting a Hrud warrior among other xeno races is anything to go by). I think the only reason they're not ruling the galaxy yet is because they're quite happy to be left alone, and they're left alone because everybody else has bigger, more aggressive things to worry about.

This right here well put

Rick Blaine
27-08-2012, 15:34
One problem... how do you make models for beings wreathed in permanent shadow?

Ordo Hydra
27-08-2012, 15:45
Well, the most common 'image' we have seen of Hrud are wearing cloaks that mask their features and have a tail whilst carrying a rifle. That was the original image of them and this is retained in the recent rulebook when it shows the images of various xenos. So, there is that... one could argue Xenology but the primary image is a decomposing corpse and the other one (the 'bendie' one) is an artist impression of what a Hrud could possibly look like since the entry in the book says that the specimen decomposed very quickly so that image might not be an accurate one.

TimLeeson
28-08-2012, 00:42
I would much prefer the Hrud to be some creepy dark/shadowy alien type.

Space rats are not only completely unoriginal, but painfully boring too - and in a game where all the other aliens are also common looking things/tropes - the Hrud represent something that has the potental to be far more alien looking due to their fantastic concepts and ideas have far too much design potential.

Personally I would make them look like rotting Scale worms wearing robes nailed to their bodies : http://www.metro.co.uk/news/890765-deep-ocean-scale-worms-reveal-scary-faces-in-close-up-photos so imagine things like that under robes, with visible internal organs in various places. Plus it makes sense since they live in areas where no light can penetrate them.

Bannik
28-08-2012, 09:50
I would much prefer the Hrud to be some creepy dark/shadowy alien type.

Space rats are not only completely unoriginal, but painfully boring too - and in a game where all the other aliens are also common looking things/tropes - the Hrud represent something that has the potental to be far more alien looking due to their fantastic concepts and ideas have far too much design potential.

Personally I would make them look like rotting Scale worms wearing robes nailed to their bodies : http://www.metro.co.uk/news/890765-deep-ocean-scale-worms-reveal-scary-faces-in-close-up-photos so imagine things like that under robes, with visible internal organs in various places. Plus it makes sense since they live in areas where no light can penetrate them.

I would rather them look like deep sea viper fish and they would use the webway like an ocean and swim through it naturally.

Wishing
28-08-2012, 10:43
Personally I would make them look like rotting Scale worms wearing robes nailed to their bodies : http://www.metro.co.uk/news/890765-deep-ocean-scale-worms-reveal-scary-faces-in-close-up-photos so imagine things like that under robes, with visible internal organs in various places. Plus it makes sense since they live in areas where no light can penetrate them.

I would totally adore this. As long as they have hoods and long rifle-guns like the 3rd ed artwork.

Aryllon
28-08-2012, 18:37
Shadow aliens sound cool. Make them quite small, slightly bigger than gretchin, bird-legged, flowing robes...

Just a horde army, no real need for tanks etc; a literal strength in numbers force. The more you have, the more powerful the aura, ergo you have built-in heavy weaponry right there.

You'd need command units, possibly a fighting elite to protect the hordes, maybe some infiltrator saboteurs which have a veil of tears 'roll X otherwise you can't see them' type ability while they disable enemy vehicles & big guns (seriously guys, just leave us alone), an assassin unit designed to take out HQs (think Callidus), then maybe a couple of big things - something which soaks up firepower to prevent your numbers dwindling, and something which enhances the strength or range of your energy field. Mobile altars, of a sort.

TimLeeson
28-08-2012, 21:02
I would rather them look like deep sea viper fish and they would use the webway like an ocean and swim through it naturally.

Don't see why you couldnt have both? I like the bodies on deep sea viper fish, but not too keen on the heads, they look scary - for sure but not very alien. I like the idea of them swimming through the warp/webway though, certainly cool visuals for migrations.


I would totally adore this. As long as they have hoods and long rifle-guns like the 3rd ed artwork.

I think hoods are important yeah, not too sure on the idea of the rifles though - the ones in the art look too much like something manufactured on earth but I guess that could be solved if you swapped the material to something else.