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Darnok
27-08-2012, 08:54
Since it is nothing WHF/40K specific, I'll put it here, but keep in mind that it is a rumour, not fact yet:


WD is changing in a fairly big way. They are moving out of the design studio into completely new offices and have brought in an outsider to head up the new format magazine (a former editor of a major successful magazine). The new magazine will have increased content and is being invested in with more money by GW in an attempt to break with the concept amongst many readers that it is little more than a figures advert. They've been working on the new mag since early May (4 WDs have been released since), so I'd expect the first of the new look fairly soon, but it would give us an idea on internal turn around times when it appears...

Sounds pretty nice to be honest - and would be about time.

Damien 1427
27-08-2012, 09:08
It sounds about right. They were recruiting a hell of a lot of new staff in the earlier half of this year.

shelfunit.
27-08-2012, 10:09
"increased content" - something would be better than nothing. Right now White Dwarf has nowhere to go but up - it has already reached rock bottom in terms of content.

synapse
27-08-2012, 10:12
this sounds interesting and can potentially be one of the biggest news items weve seen here in a while. judging by the recent official rules updates (and last months daemon booklet) i wouldnt be surprised. perhaps some smaller text and less photos is too much to wish for? :p fingers crossed for this one. hopefully the october/november issue might show us any changes

violenceha
27-08-2012, 10:19
Oh, so they'll fix up that rag just in time for the hobbit?

TheFang
27-08-2012, 10:23
Didn't they do this with Guy Haley from SFX already? They hired him to chnage White Dwarf and then wouldn't let him do much above catalogue level?

Charax
27-08-2012, 10:33
Too late to win me back, even if the new-style magazine is fantastic - which it won't be. I have a sneaking suspicion that the "increased content" will probably take the form of "New rules we will quickly monetize into Apple-only apps unless you manage to snag this specific issue of WD"

still, good news for people who, for some reason, still buy it, assuming the increase in quality isn't accompanied by another price "adjustment"

Moralein
27-08-2012, 10:41
It'll be great news if it's true and IF GW actually realise the problems that WD has. I've been around long enough to have heard this sort of thing before. I can remember Owen Reese (?) becoming editor and promising a major shake up. I cancelled my subscription at issue 320 when his shake up turned out to be more of the same.

I've never accepted that WD should only be aimed at kids, with loads of pretty pictures and precious little content. It should be a hobby magazine that inspires people to either start the hobby or improve increase their involvement in it. Issue 180 got me and my brother into the hobby and it was a great read.

Painting/modelling articles that cover the basics and more advanced techniques. Battle reports with maps and discussion of what happened and why. Designer notes that explain what and why things have changed. Gamers armies, rather than the same old studio ones photo-shopped to look bigger. Sneak peaks at upcoming ranges or new models. I do like the pictures and they are much better than they used to be, but they shouldn't replace content.

Hellebore
27-08-2012, 10:41
Too late to win me back, even if the new-style magazine is fantastic - which it won't be. I have a sneaking suspicion that the "increased content" will probably take the form of "New rules we will quickly monetize into Apple-only apps unless you manage to snag this specific issue of WD"

still, good news for people who, for some reason, still buy it, assuming the increase in quality isn't accompanied by another price "adjustment"


Pretty sure this is actually referring to the printing material, not the content. I hear they've got a revolutionary game changing material called finepaper, that only needs a bit of extra glue to hold it together and a touch of special fixative to keep the ink on. But like Apple, GW call this a 'Feature'... :shifty:

Hellebore

Lord Damocles
27-08-2012, 10:50
Sounds interesting if it comes off.
Depends on what the 'increased content' is though. Hopefully this doesn't translate simply as 'The Hobbit'.

Scammel
27-08-2012, 10:52
Right now White Dwarf has nowhere to go but up - it has already reached rock bottom in terms of content.

It's currently well, well below the standards of old, but today's stuff is surely slightly better than the abominable issue with the Tau update? Or the plastic Giant? Or the one with Calgar on the front? Those were truly the pits.

Nymie_the_Pooh
27-08-2012, 10:54
How efficient will it be to move it out of the offices of the content creators if they intend to add more content?

shelfunit.
27-08-2012, 11:01
It's currently well, well below the standards of old, but today's stuff is surely slightly better than the abominable issue with the Tau update?

Which one was that? My personal "Nadir" issue was dreadfleet one. I think my sub stopped just after the TK re-release and I make do flicking through them at the news agents now.

Lord Damocles
27-08-2012, 11:12
I can back it up quite easily. When the flyer rules were released a few months back, one of the most numerous votes was a score of 1. 1 on a scale of 1-10 meaning a terrible issue with nothing of worth whatsoever. Now explain to me how an issue with rules for four new units warrants that and I will concede the point. Until then I will maintain that there are a core of people on this forum who will continue to consider WD trash regardless of whatever content it provides.
As someone who voted issue 390 a 1, I guess this is aimed as much at me as anyone else.

Here's my explanation of how it got itself a 1:

----------------

The good:
+ New rules

The bad:
+ DOUBLE PAGE SPREADS
+ Pictures of Flyers
+ Wasted space
+ FULL PAGE adverts

The conspicuous by their absences:
+ The battle for Tanrak - if it wasn't stated outright (I forget), then it's continuation/conclusion this month was certainly implied last month
+ 'Eavy Metal painting guide(s)
+ Battle report
+ Lord of the Rings content


This is the dawn of a new age, people. No longer can the 'giant issue' be held in collective contempt as the height of White Dwarf advertising stupidity and lack of content.

A 1 from me this month.

I don't actually see a vote of 1 as automatically equating to an issue with 'with nothing of worth whatsoever'. There are - and as far as I can recall, have never been - no set rules for what each score of 1-10 means when rating White Dwarf in the 'Official Feedback Threads', so it's entirely possible that I'm not the only one who holds this view, either.

Regardless of how great the flyer rules may have been (I guess they're out of date now..?) the issue was lacking in a lot of other content that you'd expect from White Dwarf, and was chock full of double page spreads (three before the Editorial!) and totally unnecessary pictures of the new flyers to the point where it was almost comical.

Moralein
27-08-2012, 11:34
Any chance we could stick to the topic? I'm not really interested in what people think about other peoples opinions/scores in a fairly meaningless poll.

I don't suppose we'll ever find out what WD circulation is, but I can imagine that it's not as high as it once was. Hopefully someone has noticed and they are prepared to make the changes that would make it a good read again.

blackcherry
27-08-2012, 11:39
I would say that it does need an overhaul. I tend not to believe the internet whining about WD or moderate it against my own thoughts that 'it was always better back in my day'. However, this months issue was all about the new starter set. I had gotten 90% of the way through without seeing any other content. Thats pretty bad.

Hopefully this shakeup will allow the WD team a bit of autonomy again. I have a feeling that if they have freedom to do what they want a bit more and allow guest articles, the quality may rise again.

azhagmorglum
27-08-2012, 11:43
in an attempt to break with the concept amongst many readers that it is little more than a figures advert.

Do they really need more money to change that?

Wait for the inevitable price rise, with some lame excuse (yes, but we haven't raised the price since xxxx). Let's cross fingers for real interesting material then...

Poncho160
27-08-2012, 11:44
Im wondering that due to the internet, if GW cancelled WD if they would lose or make money?

ac4155
27-08-2012, 12:08
According to their latest financial report, the rumour clampdown has resulted in increased WD sales. Yet they fell the need to revamp it? I'd take a guess at WD sales still being pretty poor then compared to what they used to be.

Or alternatively, does anyone else thing GW is trying to become more prof a 'professional' company/ enter the modern age in a sense? Or at least in there eyes.
Increased control over what is announced and when,
Rumoured increase in model and rules development as well as increasing the development team,
Increased Internet presence including digital products
Hiring an external company to help handle their digital marketing/strategy
and now this where they are bringing in outside help to revamp WD.

It seems like behind the scenes GW is doing rather a lot in regards to how it is ran, and even strikes me as slightly looking to expand.

Wintermute
27-08-2012, 12:30
A number of off-topic posts have been removed.

Wintermute

RevEv
27-08-2012, 13:12
"increased content" - something would be better than nothing. Right now White Dwarf has nowhere to go but up - it has already reached rock bottom in terms of content.

Oh, I don't know!

I treated myself once to a WD while away from home on business. I was really looking forward to a good evening reading it in my hotel room but made the mistake of opening the magazine in the restaurant. The content was so poor, nothing more than pictures of new models (a true catalogue), that I had scanned through the whole magazine in the time between ordering a pizza and said meal arriving.

AlexHolker
27-08-2012, 13:52
Since my previous post was removed...

There are good ways and bad ways to add content to White Dwarf. Things like short stories and Index Astartes-style encyclopaedia articles are good. Decent battle reports, tactics and painting articles are good. New rules are fine, as long as they are either purely optional or remain readily available once the magazine sells out (and no, it doesn't count if you require the ownership of a specific brand of tablet). Limiting the availability of rules for unlimited availability models is bad.

The bearded one
27-08-2012, 14:02
I'm gonna wait and see. The rumoured pitch sounds good, more or less what we wanted (getting rid of the 'glorified catalogue' format). Let's hope it turns out like that in reality

Reinholt
27-08-2012, 14:05
Since my previous post was removed...

There are good ways and bad ways to add content to White Dwarf. Things like short stories and Index Astartes-style encyclopaedia articles are good. Decent battle reports, tactics and painting articles are good. New rules are fine, as long as they are either purely optional or remain readily available once the magazine sells out (and no, it doesn't count if you require the ownership of a specific brand of tablet). Limiting the availability of rules for unlimited availability models is bad.

A few quick thoughts:

1 - If you want people to pay for something, it typically needs to include something that is a benefit for them. The core reason WD sales have fallen off a cliff (at least from the numbers I poached from a few GW stores) is that it is primarily composed of pictures of models and advertisements for said models. Those are things of value to GW (they can attempt get you to buy more models), but not of value to the customer (guys, we already know you are selling the models, thanks). It is, shall we say, unusual at best to attempt to get customers to pay money for you to advertise to them.

2 - I think when people speak of the golden age of white dwarf, while the timeframe might vary somewhat, there are a couple of common themes that drop out: rules were included in the magazine, hobby articles were found beyond just the very basic "here is how we made the studio army that looks exactly like the box cover" type, and the worlds in which GW games were played were expanded.

3 - Ultimately, the other problem is that magazines are limited run. If GW is going to put rules in WD, you run into unavailability problems (as they did back in the day); either they will need to produce chapter approved books at end of year or publish the rules online (welcome to the 1990s!) after some point in time. Or, even better, if people have a subscription to white dwarf, produce PDFs of the magazine and have them available on the website. Worst case, yes, some people will steal them... but if you still have at least some advertising in there and are getting people fired up about the hobby, why should you be upset that people are stealing what will make them buy more models?

Just saying.

Radium
27-08-2012, 14:18
We'll see if this actually happens. Would be great if it did though!

avien
27-08-2012, 14:46
I am cautiously optimistic about this. It was background pieces in WD articles of old that inspired a lot of my old conversions, one off squads or even the odd campaign or two... And some of those one offs turned into full armies.

My subscription expires in a few months so who knows, I may actually have a reason to renew it, something I would not have anticipated given the content for the last couple of years.

I'm just hoping it isn't a facelift with no actual change.

arthurfallz
27-08-2012, 14:49
I would like to see it reduced to 5 issues a year, rather than a monthly issue. There's no need for a monthly magazine if they can't fill it with significant content. If it's going to be a 12/year magazine, they need to look at expanding the scope to non-GW products (reviews of movies, other games, RPGs).

Battle reports need to be play by play. I love reading those, and so do a lot of people. They are also great examples of rules, a place to demo new scenarios and campaigns. This just seems obvious to me - provide faqs as people play, make each WD a micro-rules update. They could even grab contentious armies and demonstrate how they think they're balanced or fun.

Articles on modelling and the ease of it are always great to see. Colouring patterns, interesting conversions and the like.

I would love to buy a magazine dedicated to my hobby, but I refuse to pay for so little content.

Ponge
27-08-2012, 15:33
Might get me interested in WD again, I haven't bought one in ages since the content just doesn't justify the price.

Erazmus_M_Wattle
27-08-2012, 15:52
It would be nice if they did update the magazine. I hope they go for a nice glossy cover like proper magazines. Too much flicking and the ink comes off the cover. I mean come on.

More content would be nice too. A bit of variation among their articles to include the oldies like me other than only the articles aimed at 12 year olds. That I feel is the missing ingredient from the good old days.

...but I'll believe it when I see it. I just don't think the higher ups have the guts or wisdom to actually allow too much of a radical change. The old guard headed up by the likes of Kirby are just getting too old and set in their ways now. Not young and adventurous like they used to be.

Replicant253
27-08-2012, 16:25
Good news if true but i am slightly concerned that we might return to the days of far too many rules updates cropping up and becoming unweildy to keep track of.

The best thing they could do is to return to fully embracing their extensive catalogue of games. That would make WD a true GW hobby magazine because at the heart of the problem for WD is that they have run out of ideas due to their blind focus on the three core games (one of which has been withering on the vine).

Bolster your source material to include the specialist games and all the other fun games GW has done and WD would be a fantastic monthly feast of gaming material.

loveless
27-08-2012, 16:26
The cost of the magazine is absurd. They need to add in a hell of a lot more content to make it worthwhile, and I doubt any change will cover it. The rare times that the mag does include content (like the recent Daemon issue), it vanishes from shelves everywhere within minutes (over here, at least).

I can't be bothered to pay extra to get "no ads" when every other page is a "Hey! We still sell [model x]! Go buy one! Or seven!" - they'll never let advertising come into their magazines, though, which is diappointing given that the extra cost is passed along to the customer.

Frankly, for the cost, unless this changes into something the size of Newtype, I can't see it ever being worthwhile.

Commissar Merces
27-08-2012, 16:49
I don't know if I can be won back...I actually dug through some of my older white dwarfs from a few years ago (like 4-5) and was stunned by the detail in battle reports (with non studio armies!) and the hobby sections. Chapter Approved too! If White Dwarf actually went back to this format, I would probably start buying them again instead of flipping through them at my GW then putting them down.

I almost made a bet with my GW manager that if there were less than 25 pages of advertisements, I would buy a battle force.

The bearded one
27-08-2012, 16:58
I think you can see it becoming more worthwhile than it currently is though, even if it would still not be worth buying, it would at least be a bit better than it used to be these past years. If you were to represent the 'worthwhile-ness' ( :p ) on a graph, it'd still be in the negative, but at least not comically far negative.

Commissar Merces
27-08-2012, 17:04
Honestly, the magazine right now is so poor it doesn't surprise me sales are down. I mean it really goes beyond poor into the realm of a tragic comedy.

Improvements that must happen to make it worth ANY cost.

1. Turn by turn battle reports with maps
2. Non studio armies in battle reports
3. LESS than 10 pages of advertisement
4. Chapter approved
5. Short stories
6. Scenarios
7. good articles/battle reports/modeling advice/REAL painting guides for 40k, Fantasy, and LoTR every month. Doesn't have to be all those categories at once but at least 1-2 of them per game.
8. Fire their editor
9. Make rule editions (SoB, Daemons) available online
10. Less pictures, more artwork

sigur
27-08-2012, 17:21
Sounds very interesting indeed. Since about the release of 8th edition WHFB GW really try their best to up their game in most every regard. They think about what they're doing now and really try to be the best. Say what you will about GW but they are doing their best now and aren't afraid to make changes. That alone is commendable. I haven't bought a WD in many years - last one I bought was the one with the Black Templars Scout on the cover I think and before thatz it already was quite a few years since I got the magazine last. What mostly drives me off is the prohibitively high price. It's more expensive than Wargames Illustrated but the latter always somehow inspires me to try out new stuff. Not that WI was the epitomy of wargaming magazine greatness. In the end though it's not about me of course. If WD improves and becomes an interesting magazine that's great and I'm all for it, wether I buy it or not.

synapse
27-08-2012, 17:39
im actually thinking with issue 400 coming up soon(ish), maybe theyre thinking of 'rebooting' it, starting fresh from issue 1 to further distance itself from the old run? unlikely, but the approach of this landmark issue might be the fulcrum for this change. guess well find out soon enough

sigur
27-08-2012, 17:51
Starting from issue number 1 again would have no merit what so ever, only downsides. This sounds like something GW would have done in 2000 - pretending to become a new company doing something new and slapping everybody in the face who until then (or a few years prior to that) liked what they had done so far.

Odin
27-08-2012, 18:13
"increased content" - something would be better than nothing. Right now White Dwarf has nowhere to go but up - it has already reached rock bottom in terms of content.

I think it's been there for nearly a decade.

logan054
27-08-2012, 18:27
Honestly, the magazine right now is so poor it doesn't surprise me sales are down. I mean it really goes beyond poor into the realm of a tragic comedy.

Improvements that must happen to make it worth ANY cost.

1. Turn by turn battle reports with maps
2. Non studio armies in battle reports
3. LESS than 10 pages of advertisement
4. Chapter approved
5. Short stories
6. Scenarios
7. good articles/battle reports/modeling advice/REAL painting guides for 40k, Fantasy, and LoTR every month. Doesn't have to be all those categories at once but at least 1-2 of them per game.
8. Fire their editor
9. Make rule editions (SoB, Daemons) available online
10. Less pictures, more artwork

And thats why I use to buy white dwarf, I would love to see chapter approved return, I would love to see rules for alternate armylists using existing armybook/codexs.

Sheena Easton
27-08-2012, 18:36
I would be happy with a return to the days of WD140 -200ish where content was split between systems, battle reports were actual battle reports with many small pictures highlighting important parts, detailed maps and wonderful narrative making it a story - like say WD155 which introduced The Skull Wand Of Kaloth (on a Shaman who was incinerated before he could use it!) WD157 which has that brilliant 3,000 point O&G vs Empire report that introduced Azhag The Slaughterer as the named Warboss facing off against the venerable Empire General Otto Blutcher who took to battle with his customary Hammer Of Might (it was inconceivable that he would not!) or WD159 with Gorblum The Magnificent, The Great Devourer in WD189, Abaddon vs Thrugg in WD200, any of the Epic battle reports... plus the rules articles, background articles, painting guides that described the techniques used, bits of fiction, artwork, hobby articles (making terrain, non-cheesy tactics, how to theme lists, why big units were good in a time when 10 with full command was the norm), original Tale Of 4 Gamers.......... back then the contributors at all stages (Developers, Sculptors, 'Eavy Metal, Artists, Editorial Team) had a clear passion for what they were doing. Now? I'm amazed any of them actually buy the models or play the games!

In short, I want a magazine with something of substance I can read and some artwork to drool over. If I want a catalogue, I can get one for free from Argos.

Bob Arctor
27-08-2012, 18:37
I really hope WD improves soon, the quality even from last December has gone off the cliff - and it wasn't a very tall cliff for a long while to begin with. My subscription is due for renewal any month now and I have decided not to bother, breaking a chain that goes back unbroken to 1995!

On the subject of Chapter Approved, I would love to see it back in WD again (depending on how it was implemented) as it was definitely a highlight of the magazine between roughly 1998 and 2004. I did hear from someone in the Design Studio who regularly writes for WD that they were thinking of bringing it back. That was last December though so I'm not sure if it will happen or is part of the shake-up plans or not, so its far from a certainty.

Killgore
27-08-2012, 21:45
I would like to see detailed background on alternative race fractions, for example Index Astartes, Eldar Craftworlds, Hive Fleets, Guard regiments, Sister Orders along with some Optional variant rules/ army lists like the good ol days.

Mini expansions like Spearhead, other gamers armies, and what could be interesting would be more articles about the new releases... that have somehow been converted for other uses, for example looted Ork Storm Talons, or Blood Angel kits that have been out to use as bits for other chapters. This would make new releases more interesting for other gamers.

I just hope the powers that be, have the balls to see through these changes.

Inquisitor Kallus
27-08-2012, 22:16
If it's going to be a 12/year magazine, they need to look at expanding the scope to non-GW products (reviews of movies, other games, RPGs).

.

You are joking right..... . What is the point of picking it up if it has other things like that in it? I want to read about films ill pick up Totalfilm or the like etc. There is no need or even a point in them putting anything like that in. There are plenty of things they could put in to make it great and purley limited to GW and its universes/ip.

Some guy (UK)
27-08-2012, 22:20
Since I've not purchased WD in several years, my benchmark of how low the magazine could sink was the infamous Giant issue (316). I get the feeling it has sunk much lower from this and other threads.
Let's see. My first issue was 287 (Return of the King release), and I've got many issues up to around 2007. I also grabbed many back issues from 2001-3 at Gamesday several years back, plus a few issues from 1998/99/2000.

Out of that range, the quality was at its highest around 1998-2004. For me they nailed the layout/format/presentation side of things around the release of the LOTR films, 2001-03, though the issues towards the turn of the millennium had more to them content wise. The slip for me started when they redesigned to a more minimalist style around the 40k 4th edition release. Hobby content seemed to become more patchy, painting guides fewer and slimmer on detail, battle reports smaller and scant on details. By late 2005 it had become very lacking, with pictures of the latest releases spread over far too many pages. Single topic issues started around then (e.g. the giant issue).

I'm glad GW is going to invest in the magazine, and it certainly makes sense given their approach to have White Dwarf as the main outlet for news (unlike the past when much was already on the internet by the time of release). I wouldn't expect a full return to the old days though. Most likely a visual redesign, more content balanced issues, slightly more informative reports and painting guides, and more none GW HQ stuff. I.e. reader based content.
Will this mean digital editions of the magazine, or are they already available?

Finnigan2004
27-08-2012, 22:54
I'm tempted to buy an extra copy of No Quarter, send it to GW headquarters, and label it "How To Do A Fantasy Wargames Magazine". Maybe then they'll get the idea that actual content in a magazine about toy soldiers is fine because even a battle report is, for all intents and purposes, an ad. It is unfortunate how little content the magazine contains now, and they need to really turn things around to make it viable. Rules, pictures of slayer sword winners, articles about gamers (tale of four gamers, the guy who used to do funny articles about tactics, etc.)-- they had the formula at one point, and should be able to find it again.

gunmnky
27-08-2012, 23:18
More than likely they'll just change the format to accommodate the new stuff available in indesign 6, like integrated movies and interactive layout. That way they can just import it right to itunes for extra money.

Lord Inquisitor
27-08-2012, 23:35
Pretty sure this is actually referring to the printing material, not the content. I hear they've got a revolutionary game changing material called finepaper, that only needs a bit of extra glue to hold it together and a touch of special fixative to keep the ink on. But like Apple, GW call this a 'Feature'... :shifty:

Hellebore

Bwahaha! Genius.

zoggin-eck
28-08-2012, 01:13
Sounds cool to me. I still buy White Dwarf, "old habits" and all of that.

No reason to bore everyone with what I think re my favorite issues or when the "golden era" was, but I am looking forward to a shake-up, so I hope this rumour is true.

I know people complain about the price, but WD has about as much content as most other hobby magazines I buy. Most others are full of even less appropriate ads and regurgitated content. If WD could rise above that, and become a magazine I'm happy to re-read every year or two, then I would be very happy.

Nogginthenog
28-08-2012, 08:18
More than likely they'll just change the format to accommodate the new stuff available in indesign 6, like integrated movies and interactive layout. That way they can just import it right to itunes for extra money.

The digital mag wont be ios exclusive.

If you look at the direct debit form for subs, it goes to warners group publishing(at least in the UK), who I assume do the printing and distribution for them. They are a hobby magazine specialist, they publish model railway magazines , needlework and dozens of others.

All are available digitally, and all are on www.pocketmags.com , which allows you to read your purchase on pc, ios and android.

Most US based model magazines are available through zinio , who also have PC/IOS/Android versions.

I'd say WD if digital will go through one or both of those distributors.

Foolish Mortal
28-08-2012, 10:57
I can't say I'm overly impressed with this. How many times have we heard that WD is improving, only for nothing to actually happen? (apart from getting even worse.)

I'd like to believe it, I really would, and I hope it is true, but it would have to be one hell of an improvement to interest me again, and I'm not sure it could, as my favourite issues featured Specialist Games.

The sort of things I think they should have are:

rules/material for special formations/units.
Short Stories.
Modeling articles (including conversions).
Painting articles (not just I'M, but articles on specifics e.g. camouflage, etc).
More detailed battle reports.
'History' (famous battles, forces involved, etc).

Above all, they need to go back to the ethos of 'by gamers, for gamers' (even if it isn't anymore).

What would worry me though, is if any improvement comes with a price rise to pay for it, or that GW simply decide to do away with any pretense, and aim WD squarely at their target audience, giving the vet yet another kick in the nads.

Skaven13
28-08-2012, 17:49
What are you guys being so cheefully optimistic for? This is terrible news! If WD actually improves, this means that I am going to miss my monthly dose of comedy as Lord Damocles picks apart each issue! Great. There goes something else to look forward to every month. Thanks GW.

I'm also a little worried about what kind of content they are putting in there. If this guy came from a tabloid publication, I can just see it now..."Best Games Developer Beach Bodies of 2012!", "Jervis Johnson's son caught playing Warmachine! The full scandalous story inside!"

T9nv3
28-08-2012, 17:55
WD should inspire hobbyists and gamers. Everything else should go on the website. Seems like GW has had problems understanding what to put where. There is no reason why those grand "realms of battle" shots can't go on the website to really display the models and generate a little bit of extra traffic. Articles like "How to Assemble Finecast" have absolutely no business being paid content in WD....Meanwhile something like "Blood in the Badlands" that ended up selling as a hardcover stand alone book would have been more appropriate for WD, with an option to "download" the full book through I-toons

thenamelessdead
28-08-2012, 18:18
I really hope WD improves soon, the quality even from last December has gone off the cliff - and it wasn't a very tall cliff for a long while to begin with.
The cliff must be 6mm-scale. Remember 6mm scale GW, when you produced a game system known as Epic?!

White Dwarf simply has to improve and if they're serious about it then fair enough. While the Internet could be seen as harmful to sales I think they could harness it in some way to make the magazine more interactive with the GW community. They used to do interactive campaigns etc long before the web became mainstream so it can only be easier to do it now.

logan054
28-08-2012, 19:43
Since I've not purchased WD in several years, my benchmark of how low the magazine could sink was the infamous Giant issue (316). I get the feeling it has sunk much lower from this and other threads.

I stopped buying it well before then, I know of the issue you speak off, it was pretty much "buy this new giant" So lame... I would love to see battle reports involving regular people rather than showcase armies, we have enough pictures of these on the website and in the rulebooks.

Orrinocco
28-08-2012, 20:19
I hope they start talking about 'why'. WHy did a designer choose to make a rule? etc. They've taken the rule of cool too far IMHO, until they seem to think that that is an acceptable answer to all questions - why? because its cool man *8-(

Mister Magister
28-08-2012, 21:14
If the revamp is as thorough as it needs to be, then I may well pick up a couple of issues again and give it a chance. The last time I regularly bought WD was around the 210s or so and have only dipped in and out for the odd issue of interest since. I shan't hold my breath though.

Hendarion
28-08-2012, 21:37
Since it is nothing WHF/40K specific, I'll put it here, but keep in mind that it is a rumour, not fact yet:

(...)

Sounds pretty nice to be honest - and would be about time.

I didn't read any of the threat and probably will have to, but if that is really going to be real, I might indeed buy some WD in the future again... after like 15 years.

canberraguy
28-08-2012, 22:17
Hope it works out, I sometimes flick back to when WD first got "fat" and think that was the ideal. Still a lot of new release focus but I think genuine hobby articles are a much more effective form of advertising/hobby building than 30 pages of ads.

azhagmorglum
29-08-2012, 12:06
Guys, do you realize that to bring back hobby articles (conversions, designers' notes, painting class, tactics, battle reports etc...) GW must find and pay people to do them? I guess writing those articles takes a lot of time, so they'll need dedicated people to do it. Hence I see two options here :

1) there is indeed a big (and true) overhaul, and the magazine's price increases, but we get true articles with some depth (but still...)

2) there is indeed an overhaul, but they just put old articles and stuff, and they charge more as well because...they can

Well, I can't help being negative, but if GW's goal is (only) to make (more) money like some people said in other threads (because they are a company, and a company's goal is to make money, how sad), and I'm inclined to think that way too now - it's not by gamers for gamers stuff anymore - then prepare to be disappointed, one way or another

Inquisitor Kallus
29-08-2012, 12:23
I would imagine its more a case of needing to sell more issues. Even if they need to hire more people to makke a better magazine then the increased sales may make up for that...

PointBlank
29-08-2012, 15:40
Guys, do you realize that to bring back hobby articles (conversions, designers' notes, painting class, tactics, battle reports etc...) GW must find and pay people to do them? I guess writing those articles takes a lot of time, so they'll need dedicated people to do it. Hence I see two options here :

1) there is indeed a big (and true) overhaul, and the magazine's price increases, but we get true articles with some depth (but still...)

2) there is indeed an overhaul, but they just put old articles and stuff, and they charge more as well because...they can

Well, I can't help being negative, but if GW's goal is (only) to make (more) money like some people said in other threads (because they are a company, and a company's goal is to make money, how sad), and I'm inclined to think that way too now - it's not by gamers for gamers stuff anymore - then prepare to be disappointed, one way or another


I'm as cynical as the next embittered vet but maybe, just maybe, the GW money-men have noticed that WD circulation figures have been steadily declining over the last few years and it's finally filtered into their thick heads that this might be related to the total lack of content in the mag. A product catalogue masquerading as a hobby magazine in order to charge top-shelf prices only works as long as the deception is halfway convincing. It might actually be worth a little expenditure on their part to restore the illusion and generate more sales of both magazines and subsequent hobby purchases.

Also, as mentioned above, the changes were first hinted at months ago but have yet to appear - this implies they have only recently started work on new content. Frankly, I've always been puzzled as to why they don't use more user-submitted content like the old Citadel journal - seeing stuff made by other gamers engages with readers and, well, it's free content.

Porlock
29-08-2012, 16:08
They've been working on the new mag since early May (4 WDs have been released since), so I'd expect the first of the new look fairly soon, but it would give us an idea on internal turn around times when it appears...

August's White Dwarf was Issue # 200 in Germany and they had a very short, very irrelevant article on the history of the White Dwarf in UK and Germany there. There was only one memorable fact there as they said officially that work on a WD issue starts six month prior to its publication: three months during which the content is produced in Nottingham and three months during which the foreign language versions are created (read: translation work) and the issue is printed and distributed. If nothing has changed on that (and I read about the "WD takes six months to be produced"-stuff several times here on Warseer before that), then a start in early May would indicate that the first "new" White Dwarf issue would be December's, which should be available November 24th if I am not mistaken.

Wouldn't that fit splendidly with the whole Hobbit stuff said to come in December? Just a thought...

On a more general level, it now takes me only one hour to read my WDs while it had been 1,5 hours roughly four years ago and more than three hours in the late 1990s/early 2000s (german WD only started January 1995, so I have little experience before that)... still I don't complain too much, it is still ok to me while commuting home - usually I'm too sleepy for anything too complicated anyway... (personal opinion). Nevertheless, more content and a higher quality would be something I would quite cherish.

Daniel36
29-08-2012, 16:33
We shall wait and see.

I stopped buying them a long time ago, but was happy that I found the May issue two weeks ago, because that one was ace.
A cool feature on several Knightly Orders who employ Demigryph Knights, one of which I wanted the colour scheme for. (I still like to be canon)
A REALLY cool additional Scenario for Storm of Magic (which I love) with cool new rules for Empire (wich I play) and some cool new spells.
A non-Eavy Metal Necron army. I am no fan of Necrons per sť, but at least they showed a different paint scheme and some cool background info.
Some scenery building tips.

All in all, that particular WD was really awesome.

Then, I bought a value pack last week because I was bored, and they were absolute duds. They were really nothing more than advertisement. Shame.

But anyways, funny thing, two weeks ago I decided to throw away all of my WDs, but cut out all the articles I found interesting. I found out they blatantly re-used an article. It was one for the Empire, with pictures of several inventions like the pigeon bomb, and if I am not mistaken I also saw a "Shooting Tactica" posted twice. That made me really, really sad.

If they want to improve the magazine... It'll be SO easy.
Do away with the 5 pages of store addresses, we can find those online.
Limit the advertisement. I understand the inclusion, but too much is too much.

Articles articles articles!!
Scenery (preferably scratchbuilt) building articles
Painting articles
Tactica
COOL battle reports that DON'T use the stock Eavy Metal stuff.

Honestly... It's not that difficult to make a cool magazine.

DaHedd
29-08-2012, 22:31
Bought the WD lsst month for the first time in years so I could read up on the 6th ed (i skipped 5 totally)really was not impressed by what I read. It really is one big advert.

Id encourage GW to be radical, if they still want a WD like that, then fine but id like to see the Citadel Journal back as a sepetate publication for those with a real interest in the hobby. They could even go as fsr as to ask fir contributions from some actual gamers.

logan054
30-08-2012, 02:38
1) there is indeed a big (and true) overhaul, and the magazine's price increases, but we get true articles with some depth (but still...)

Complete toss, other companies can produce hobby magazines for far less and actually have content worth reading, I can understand why its already more (because of GW being unable to see pages to advertise 3rd party things), still, currently you are paying for a premium hobby magazine and getting a catalogue.

Graeme
30-08-2012, 10:14
Guys, do you realize that to bring back hobby articles (conversions, designers' notes, painting class, tactics, battle reports etc...) GW must find and pay people to do them? I guess writing those articles takes a lot of time, so they'll need dedicated people to do it.

Iím really unconvinced by this. I know this is the internet and so thereís no particular reason to believe me, but Iíve worked in publishing for years and Iím almost certain that you could produce decent, written hobby articles at a cost either equal to or less than that required to produce the current Ďpicture book and sales messagingí Dwarf.

Words, in my professional experience, are quick and cheap to produce. Fancy photos of new releases are not. This is a long-winded way of saying that I donít believe the current godawful mag to be the result of penny-pinching but an intentional choice to make a glossy monthly advert. Iím very pleased to hear that they may be changing their minds about this strategy, as Iíd like my subscription to be somewhat worthwhile. The rumour is somewhat supported by the WD job vacancies from a few months ago. I nearly applied myself, but the pay on offer was little short of insulting.

Damien 1427
30-08-2012, 19:31
Do away with the 5 pages of store addresses, we can find those online.

What annoys me with those is that they're not so much useless, as outright wrong. And I've been telling them for months that it's the case. There are stores that have been out of business since last year, or have addresses that don't exist, or are in fact business addresses for online-only stores... I wouldn't mind the inclusion so much if it wasn't for the fact the information is out of date (In one case, by nearly nine months), or outright wrong.

t-tauri
30-08-2012, 19:48
What annoys me with those is that they're not so much useless, as outright wrong. And I've been telling them for months that it's the case. There are stores that have been out of business since last year, or have addresses that don't exist, or are in fact business addresses for online-only stores... I wouldn't mind the inclusion so much if it wasn't for the fact the information is out of date (In one case, by nearly nine months), or outright wrong.

I got caught by that in Rhyl last year looking for a shop which had gone out of business 12 months before. As they do the WD 3-6 months before publication it's always going to be missing closures and openings. A small insert catalogue would be better publicity for the local Games Stores as they could put some promo material in, make sure it's up to date and print on cheaper paper. Might even be able to do it regionally.

Sophet Drahas
30-08-2012, 21:01
I'd wonder if they saw increased WD sales during months with campaign and rules inserts. I'm thinking back to the Vamp Counts and SoB and Daemon issues that seemed to sell out somewhat quickly around me.

If they can actually turn a profit from the magazine they'd be more inclined to keep going that route. The way it's been if it hasn't been operating at a loss yet, it soon would be. This last issue Goethe 40K starter was IMO completely worthless. All those pages of pics and battle reports should have been release a couple weeks or months ago online to drum up interest and fervor for the new set.

Misfratz
30-08-2012, 21:24
I will hope for the best with this rumour, but I can't help but think that the most likely result will be increased content to tie-in with the release of the Hobbit, and wishful thinking has translated that to mean something more substantial. Time will tell.

Marked_by_chaos
02-09-2012, 14:34
I can accept to an extent GW's drive to use White Dwarf as a form of advertising. However, it is bad at even doing that. I don't really see how it is that they can't improve it considerably without even needing to expend any real effort.

Most other magazines of a hobby sort will have a load of typical monthly features and then exclusive articles appearing each month. White Dwarf could do a lot worse than adopting a format such as this.

1. Editorial
2. New releases (no more than 1 double page spread per release!)
and then in no particular order
3. Hobby team painting article (painting an army effectively using the new GW paint philosophy - usually new release army but could be an older force to reinvigorate interest)
4. 'Eavy metal masterclass (could be painting a whole model or just ways of painting particular features such as leather or metallics. Sometimes a Q&A or perhaps their favorite question answered each month).
5. Designer notes. Interview with the lead Games Designer, Artist and Sculptor responsible for each release. Give it at least 8-10 pages. Show concept sketches, explain favorite bits of background etc. Do GW not realise that this encourages as much enthusiasm (if not more) than a few additional double page spreads of a model you have already seen 10 times.
6. Battle report. Less pictures and more prose. Do not combine turns. Return to the greater level of explanation, narrative introduction etc. of yesteryear (i.e. right back to white dwarfs 180odd when I first started)
7. New scenario for game system or rules idea.
8. Hobby corner - i.e. sculpting, conversion showcase and explanations.
9. Tactics article - stengths and weaknesses of certain armies or tips for using/combating walkers/terminators etc.
10. Interview/essay from prominent staff members i.e. Jes Goodwin, John Blanche (even Jervis). Give it some meaningful space say 5-10 pages. They could change the contributor each month so that you get fresh approaches and no one has to give up significant time to it when viewed on a monthly basis.
11. Meaningful forge world, warhammer forge (even fantasy flight games) section perhaps with interviews with designers and explanations of stuff, tutorials etc.

thenamelessdead
02-09-2012, 18:54
Guys, do you realize that to bring back hobby articles (conversions, designers' notes, painting class, tactics, battle reports etc...) GW must find and pay people to do them? I guess writing those articles takes a lot of time, so they'll need dedicated people to do it. Hence I see two options here :

1) there is indeed a big (and true) overhaul, and the magazine's price increases, but we get true articles with some depth (but still...)

2) there is indeed an overhaul, but they just put old articles and stuff, and they charge more as well because...they can

Well, I can't help being negative, but if GW's goal is (only) to make (more) money like some people said in other threads (because they are a company, and a company's goal is to make money, how sad), and I'm inclined to think that way too now - it's not by gamers for gamers stuff anymore - then prepare to be disappointed, one way or another

The bit in bold: if GW can't do it properly then they shouldn't do it at all. What they are currently doing is asking people to pay £4.50 a month for some advertising. It's a masterstroke by the marketing department but hugely detrimental to the product and ultimately adds nothing to the 'GW Hobby'.

selone
02-09-2012, 20:07
I hope this is true, i am a very occasional WD buyer (I only buy it when there is something that am concerned with in - normally rules) and I was appalled at at the August, how many pages of demons, issue.

MajorWesJanson
03-09-2012, 02:22
I got caught by that in Rhyl last year looking for a shop which had gone out of business 12 months before. As they do the WD 3-6 months before publication it's always going to be missing closures and openings. A small insert catalogue would be better publicity for the local Games Stores as they could put some promo material in, make sure it's up to date and print on cheaper paper. Might even be able to do it regionally.

I hated those insert sections. The sticky glue used to hold them in tends to tear the pages when you try to remove it, especially when you pick up old back issues and the glue has long soaked into the paper.

thinkerman
03-09-2012, 15:20
Great feedback by all on this one - a lot of constructive feedback too which is great to hear and read :)

Like many of I you started on WD wayyyy back in the day. The magazine featured huge content, quality and variety in articles and more let alone the free miniatures you used to get every x amount of issues. Every month I'd rush out of school to the news agents to pick up my latest copy......WD was the most valuable thing in the world!

This value let alone the quality have all declined over the past 5-10 years under various tenure-ships and while I understand GW has to promote its own products, matterials and releases (having no other advertising) this policy and approach has gone too far...in fact WD is far removed from what it should, we refer to it as a monthly catalogue!

To be frank though this catalogue exists online and beyond this there is no reason to buy the magazine hence the fall in sales and most likely lack of effort and money put into the mag by GW

With this news though about a BIG WD overhaul im curiously optimistic that WD will go back to some degree to what it used to be which is a creative outlet for the GW hobby/universe in all its forms and systems.

This creative outlet approach served so well for years and we all remember the familiar and fantastic content...terrain building from scratch, army of the month, tale of 4 gamers, tactics, amazing battle reports sometimes spread over multiple issues with various boards which had an effect on the other (3rd war for Armageddon double issue), conversion ideas, short stories and more. I do certainly refer to this 'golden years' like many of you and you know what - no one can take those away from me :)

The older issues were/are so good heck i find myself buying older copies through eBay for the articles and quality of it all compared with now.



I certainly understand creative control and protection of the IP is very important for GW given they feel they must contain this all and it’s their greatest asset but given the above this needs reigning back a little and the magazine becoming an outlet for varied content and creativity.

Sorry to say but WD will never ever be the one sole source for news, pictures and releases. Printed media simply cannot keep up with a moving blog nor the speed of website updates or the forum which is why its so important for the magazine going forward to feature unique content which is not available online.



This unique content should be in keeping with the universes we love to read and hear about from...

-Expanded fluff and new stories

-New characters and stats to try along with conversion ideas to represent them

-Visiting older named characters and updating those who don’t make it into a codex or update

-Chapter Approved

-Competitions to win prizes or as in the past design studio tours etc

-Enticing people to submit artwork (engaging with the community) be it short stories, pictures along with scenario ideas, other gaming related materials and themed army lists (with the website and attaching files this is SO easy!)

-Showing more of the background process on manufacturing designing and concept work which goes into models (the making of the land raider was amazing for this).....Perhaps showing us what didnt make it....miniatures, tanks, ideas etc

-Personal army builds (bringing content from gamers for gamers) - Joe blogs builds a cool army or puts a titan build log into WD with pictures, painting and more

-Tale of 4 Gamers

-Terrain building with a budget in mind (no more wacky £800+ cities or towers - Be realistic please!). Say a defence tower, hill and other items found at home?

-Actual content and information on other still available and being played game systems...Inquisitor, EPIC, Mordheim, Battlefleet Gothic.

-Something Historic perhaps...an old WD article reprinted or re issued with a new twist, a review of older games and out of print memory lane type stuff.....Everyone remembers specific armies from the past and personal favourites (Armageddon Steel Legion to the Huge Blood Angels staff army from issue 335 I think with the ork on the cover). A remake of older terrain or board. Replaying an older mission from a mag - revenge or rematch ideas and mix in fluff with this

-40K 40mins/Warhammer skirmish type smaller quick games with a storyline and plot battle reports and scenarios (Heck you could get many more of these smaller ones in a mag played over a lunch time than some 4 hour slog in an evening)

-Eavy metal painting comps where they all paint the same model in a different way - Chaos Lord and Harry the Hammer spring to mind

-A Forge World feature...how they build the kits, designs and concepts, there philosophy when approaching writing an Imperial Armour volume etc

I could go on and on with various creative ideas that they could exploit or go for in WD. Point in there is SO much that can be done from the immense backgrounds and IP which exist to feed and inspire through to the sheer creativity of the community and people’s ideas and what they are capable of doing.

I’m really hoping GW can pull WD out of the gutters and bring back varied, creative content featuring the old and new and more importantly make it so we WANT to buy the magazine and get the value we feel we’re so lacking from a monthly catalogue

Fingers cross :)

MiyamatoMusashi
03-09-2012, 16:05
So this rumour (and what I'd heard elsewhere) suggests they're replacing (or have already replaced) the WD staff.

Well, they sure as hell need to do something - but surely the staff are just working to a brief? They could bring in William Shakespeare's ghost as lead writer, but if he gets given the brief of "just chuck a load of photos of new models in there, as little text as possible, and for God's sake don't mention anything that we don't sell" it's still going to be utter dross.

Isn't the fundamental problem simply what GW want WD to do, ie. be a catalogue? While that remains unchanged, it's always going to be a waste of money... and replacing the staff surely won't solve anything. Change the requirements to something like "be an interesting hobby magazine that just happens to mention GW stuff a lot" and it might be exciting news.

checkmorale
05-09-2012, 15:46
Im wondering that due to the internet, if GW cancelled WD if they would lose or make money?

Mongoose Publishing took Signs & Portents Internet-only as a free download, and they said they've seen their subscribers and profits, go up.

~Check

Bergioyn
05-09-2012, 16:10
I seriously hope this turns out true. I miss the old WD, I don't feel like paying for ads.

checkmorale
05-09-2012, 19:54
I seriously hope this turns out true. I miss the old WD, I don't feel like paying for ads.

WD has always been about Ads, but the giant issue and the latest issue are really a new low, as they don't contain painting guides of any kind, probably because they just released a new ibooks app. But the reviews on the ibook app have been pretty terrible.

~Check

Daniel36
05-09-2012, 20:30
Honestly... Everyone should just stop buying them... and we should all create our own magazine.
Okay, I know Warseer has tried before, and those mags all died out, but I enjoyed both Firebase and Watchman, and seriously, my guess is... if some people would take it upon themselves to create a real, tangible magazine (as oposed to digital), with content from us (obviously edited by them), it would become something truly amazing.

I'd bet the ones who would do that would get so much content within a month's time, they could fill magazines for years to come.

Point is, besides White Dwarf, there isn't all that much else out, at least not to my knowledge. There's one well known war gamers magazine but if I am not mistaken they focus on historical war games more than fantasy and sci-fi. Others focus on role playing games.

Be the change!!

Bergioyn
07-09-2012, 12:20
WD has always been about Ads, but the giant issue and the latest issue are really a new low, as they don't contain painting guides of any kind, probably because they just released a new ibooks app. But the reviews on the ibook app have been pretty terrible.

~Check
Atleast we used to get articles, fluff and guides with our adds.

Crymson
07-09-2012, 14:41
Could the big overhaul be that they are planning to release it on the iPad as well?

Bigbot
12-09-2012, 20:51
What if it goes online only?

duffybear1988
12-09-2012, 21:29
What would be great is if they removed Standard Bearer and stuck Chapter Approved back in.

I would much rather have updated rules and missions than Jervis telling us how wonderful GW is every month. He never used to be like that so I guess it all comes down to his orders from the organ grinding monkeys at the top.

Faeslayer
13-09-2012, 02:51
I'd be kind of sad if it went online only, but it is the way of things now. And if the ebooks are any indication, they'd charge the full print-version price for it. :/

lbecks
13-09-2012, 04:11
Since I still have a subscription i'm kind of excited to see the changes because the magazine is very bad right now. The two things i'd want back are EM Masterclass and in depth Designer interviews. The Latham/Latham combo really made EM MC a treat. And then it ended when they both got promoted.

kyussinchains
13-09-2012, 08:47
I too hate standard bearer..... 2 pages of GW propaganda......

I can't think what they could really do in terms of content to actually improve it now they only have 2 game systems supported..... back in the day you had articles and battle reports on blood bowl, epic, man o war and loads of other games, as well as plenty of stuff for warhammer and 40k, articles containing actual opinion, interviews with games designers which weren't all loaded questions like 'we both know 5th edition 40k was awesome, how on earth did you living gods in the design studio manage to make it even awesomer with 6th?? (on sale now!!)'

I really don't see what can be done in the current self-aggrandising, backslapping framework GW have these days without stepping on people's toes.....

Foolish Mortal
13-09-2012, 08:47
Theres a post over on Dakka saying that there will be a 'big announcement' about WD on September 29th. If true, then I guess we'll get our answers.....

EDIT: Sorry didn't see the part where this was originally posted on Warseer - please carry on, nothing to see here.:D

Commandojimbob
13-09-2012, 13:07
Well this will be interesting

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=4200016

Looks like the trends of recent changes have been building up to a formalised new format White Dwarf - lets hope it returns to being about the hobby and all that is great and not so much about being a glorified catalogue.

Lord Damocles
13-09-2012, 13:13
Update:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=4200016

Crymson
13-09-2012, 13:14
Still doesn't really give anything away does it? :P

de Selby
13-09-2012, 13:15
I haven't bought WD for years, lets see if they can drag me back in.

IIRC, Jes Bickham is the guy with the tyranid army and Guy Haley's (IG) nemesis from old battle reports.

semper_fi
13-09-2012, 13:16
sounds interesting but im wondering..... Will there be masterclasses and/or paintguides always loved them !

BattleSarge
13-09-2012, 13:18
Wonder how much the cost will go up.

Foolish Mortal
13-09-2012, 13:22
So....'bigger' + 'higher quality paper' = price rise?

omegoku
13-09-2012, 13:22
They'd have to do something drastic to get me interested in WD again, last one I bought was Blood Angels Codex, and before that, years ago.

Bring back Chapter Approved

MiyamatoMusashi
13-09-2012, 13:31
Bigger is all well and good, but they don't have enough content to fill the pages as it is. Let's see it get better before it gets bigger.

zoggin-eck
13-09-2012, 13:35
I'm happy to see how this turns out. There is so much potential for White Dwarf, I think GW's games really do deserve a sweet magazine to go along with it. Obviously, the price issue will be raised 100 times, but White Dwarf is pretty much the same price as most comparably hobby/computer/pet/whatever magazines around. Can't wait!

Jedi152
13-09-2012, 13:41
So....'bigger' + 'higher quality paper' = price rise?
Almost certainly. Take a look down your magazine aisle, TBH WD is a pretty normal price for a magazine.

If it doesn't become £5 i'll be a monkey's uncle.

Tokamak
13-09-2012, 13:58
My first White Dwarf contained four pages on how to dynamically pose your new Necron Destroyers in ridiculous detail. Back then the WD was a good bridge between the official, static Games Workshop and the crazy things hobbyists did with their hobby. Over the years it became more about GW and less about the hobby. It turned into a sterile miniature catalogue rather than a magazine by hobbyists sparking your imagination.

HereBeDragons
13-09-2012, 14:08
They couldn't possibly be stupid enough to start hyping it up big time and then leave it as it was, could they? With that in mind I feel a desperate hopefulness. Especially as Kenrick has been replaced as Editor! I used to collect Battle Games in Middle Earth, was pretty good, it got me into the hobby, and taught me how to paint. Im looking forward to seeing the new issue.

Foolish Mortal
13-09-2012, 14:15
Almost certainly. Take a look down your magazine aisle, TBH WD is a pretty normal price for a magazine.

If it doesn't become £5 i'll be a monkey's uncle.


You're probably right about that (the price that is, not been a monkey's uncle :D)

I'll probably trot along on release day and take a look at it, you never know it might actually be.....good.

Cheexsta
13-09-2012, 14:17
This has me intrigued. There were rumours a while back about WD changing its format, but it's good to see that it's happening soon.

It's a good confirmation that the next WD is definitely out on the 22nd, too.

Treadhead_1st
13-09-2012, 14:19
The last few White Dwarfs have actually been really good in terms of hobby articles and discussion, and over the last year or two I've noticed a slow shift away from blatant marketing and they have even put in additional rules (Terrorgheist, Flyers for 40K etc.) and so on. Whilst it hasn't been up to the age-old standards of 5-10 years ago, it has certainly been an upward trend...and YES, Matt Hutson is back! *crosses fingers for more proper Tales of Four Gamers reports*

I can totally believe that they're improving White Dwarf again, given that the changes that have been made have appeared to boost sales (the local GW is regularly sold out) already, and the fans have constantly been calling for something better. Given the general 6th Ed. release, the quick response that genuine questions were answered in the FAQs, and now a better White Dwarf? Holy hell, GW might be back on top form.

Geld
13-09-2012, 14:23
Christian oh, Christian, so it was finally time... I'm sad to say that one of my biggest sources of inspiration the last decade looks to be gone from the shallow halls...

Voss
13-09-2012, 14:24
This has me intrigued. There were rumours a while back about WD changing its format, but it's good to see that it's happening soon.

Ah, personally I figured the 'format change,' if it ever happened, would be a move to digital. Well, perhaps I'll take a glance at the new one, if I ever get the chance.

The bearded one
13-09-2012, 14:30
According to the GW blog, the new editor is going to be Jes Bickham.

"And last, but certainly not least, we also have a new White Dwarf editor, and the latest scion of Grombrindal himself, Jes Bickham. While this is his first time working on White Dwarf, Jes has worked at Games Workshop before as the editor of Battle Games of Middle-earth, back when The Lord of the Rings first appeared in cinemas and hair was more plentiful."

I assume they're referring to the deagostini magazine (though that was 'battle games in middle earth, wasn't it? Or was that just the Dutch translation :p ), which I ran through from start to end, and was really very good and helpful and succesful enough for them to have to lengthen it's run by another 10-20 issues, twice. If Jes makes WD as good and useful as he did BGiME, I'm looking forward to it.

gitburna
13-09-2012, 14:33
My first White Dwarf contained four pages on how to dynamically pose your new Necron Destroyers in ridiculous detail. Back then the WD was a good bridge between the official, static Games Workshop and the crazy things hobbyists did with their hobby. Over the years it became more about GW and less about the hobby. It turned into a sterile miniature catalogue rather than a magazine by hobbyists sparking your imagination.

haha, which was this, the one with Paul Rudge's bronze coloured necrons? What's funny is that - if it was - this was around the time i thought WD was getting a bit rubbish having been buying it from the 140s (though i did keep my subscription until about 310-ish) For me I finally lost interest after Guy Haley and that little round-headed guy with the Dark Angels army left (can't remember his name)

I think its a phase everyone goes through...rose tinted glasses and all that.

REDEATH
13-09-2012, 14:39
You forgot to read the fine print at the bottom that said they will also be raising the price of WD from $9 USD to $12 USD to bleed their customers of some more money under the cover of we are using better paper and it costs more.


But I also think the new WD will also be available in digital format on the iPad with digital subscriptions probably available too.

Skaven13
13-09-2012, 14:40
Huh. Let's see what I can read out of this....

"On September 22nd 2012, White Dwarf will be reborn; bigger, better and more exciting than ever before."

$$$

"Even the paper is a higher quality, that's the degree to which the magazine has changed."

$$$$$

"Of course a new magazine needs a new team to work on it"

$$$$$$

Yeap, here comes $15 US White Dwarfs!

The whole "battle reports will be reborn" thing really scares me. They have been "reborn" already into something laughable compared to how they used to be. Do we really need another rebirth? What will it be now, MORE pictures with a few sentences INSIDE the pictures?

Harumph. Maybe I should change my name to Cynical13, but I have severe doubts about this whole change being a good thing for gamers.

MajorWesJanson
13-09-2012, 14:41
REDEATH: No. Just no.

Targ Ironfist
13-09-2012, 14:46
REDEATH: GW is money counters company now. And has been for years. So why are you surprised?

Only thing we can expect is to get something for our money. Should the WD go in the direction of a real gamers magazine, it will be at least a partial win for us, gamers.
To await anything else in a free enterprise system is rather unrealistic.

StraightSilver
13-09-2012, 14:46
It also looks as though there will be more reader input, they are now stating that if you send photos of your armies in to the WD team they may well get featured in the magazine.

Maybe we will see a return to readers letters?

I had heard that the magazine will be similar in format to Edge magazine, so probably £5-6 and still full of adverts! :)

Arbedark
13-09-2012, 14:50
REDEATH: No. Just no.

But why let lies get in the way of a good rant?

Gamers: "Hey GW! Yeah, you! White Dwarf is a pile of grox dung! Do something about it!"

GW: "Hey guys, we realised that White Dwarf was sub-par, so we're going to improve it by adding in the stuff that you said you wanted. Sorry."

Gamers: "NO! NO! OMG! All you want is money GW! YOU DIRTY MONEY GRABBING ****S!"

Faeslayer
13-09-2012, 14:56
If it's worth buying, I'd pay more for it... heck, if it's good again, I'll actually subscribe again. :)

The bit about paper confuses me... was it made of poor paper before? I don't know if I've ever noticed a magazine that had "better paper", WD just seemed to have the same paper as any magazine.

Gimp
13-09-2012, 14:58
Well to be honest I dont mind the price increase that much.

I would rather pay 15 USD for a worth while magazine than the old 12 USD for a glorified sales pamphlet.

And remember USD is a lot stronger than SA Rands and I am teacher lol.

trigger
13-09-2012, 15:02
So on the link did any one pay attention to the pic of the new Karn model ?

andrewm9
13-09-2012, 15:06
They'd have to do something drastic to get me interested in WD again, last one I bought was Blood Angels Codex, and before that, years ago.

Bring back Chapter Approved


They have. Its just not happening with every magazine. The Sisters codex was Chapter approved.

Arbedark
13-09-2012, 15:06
So on the link did any one pay attention to the pic of the new Karn model ?

Yeah, some of us even read the words that went with it.


We love receiving emails from our fans, especially when they are accompanied by photos of beautifully painted Citadel miniatures. Some of these pictures we will feature on the blog, just like the fantastic model on the left painted by Mark Schuepstuhl.

Emphasis mine.

Fan conversion.

Shamana
13-09-2012, 15:07
I wish we could have a few bits of errata every WD (2-3 questions sent by email on any topic/codex) and a WD list every few months for those lists that haven't been updated lately. Kroot merks, IG planets, codex SM lists with minor variations (i.e. Salamander or Raven Guard), eldar craftworld lists, etc - basically something like the FW lists, but with models that already exist. Essentially, they can use WD to give a minor update every few months for stuff they put on the backburner in terms of army books/codices. A competition for fan-made short stories (with the winner getting theirs published and a little something from GW) could be nice too, and give the fluff writers ideas.

A guy can dream, right?

Cheexsta
13-09-2012, 15:08
So on the link did any one pay attention to the pic of the new Karn model ?
That's a conversion, almost certainly. Most of the parts are pretty recognisable: SM torso with a bit from the Chaos mutation sprue for a belt buckle, repositioned Berzerker legs, Chaos Lord plasma pistol, Kharn backpack, FW Berzerker head with modified bunny ears. About the only part I don't recognise is the chainaxe.

hobbic_c
13-09-2012, 15:09
I wish we could have a few bits of errata every WD (2-3 questions sent by email on any topic/codex) and a WD list every few months for those lists that haven't been updated lately. Kroot merks, IG planets, codex SM lists with minor variations (i.e. Salamander or Raven Guard), eldar craftworld lists, etc - basically something like the FW lists, but with models that already exist. Essentially, they can use WD to give a minor update every few months for stuff they put on the backburner in terms of army books/codices.

A guy can dream, right?

they always used to do this... in the 3rd ed

MajorWesJanson
13-09-2012, 15:19
So on the link did any one pay attention to the pic of the new Karn model ?

Given that it is next to the paragraph on "send us your photos" it is probably a conversion. Especially on that base.

Tuatha Dar
13-09-2012, 15:23
Wonder how much the cost will go up.

My thoughts as well.

I smell a price increase coming.

Tuatha

zoggin-eck
13-09-2012, 15:24
Maybe we will see a return to readers letters?


Yuck, I've always hated readers letters in any magazine. Semi reader submitted articles like Mike Walkers ones would be sweet, but paragraph sized letters is a huge waste of time, particularly in the internet age.


While this is his first time working on White Dwarf, Jes has worked at Games Workshop before as the editor of Battle Games of Middle-earth, back when The Lord of the Rings first appeared in cinemas and hair was more plentiful."


Yeah, this is partly why I'm interested. Here's hoping it's all good.

Commissar Merces
13-09-2012, 15:39
All I can say is about freaking time. White dwarves over the past two years have barely been useable as fishwraps, much less legitimate hobby magazines.

I see a steep price increase in our future (probably between $13-15 dollars) and some good improvements. Hopefully the improvements are good enough to warrant purchasing again.

Azazyll
13-09-2012, 15:40
They only need to do one thing to get my subscription back - bring back index astartes/xenos. With lists. If I'm going to buy WD, it had better have a decent amount of crunch. I never cared for the Battle Reports.

Shamana
13-09-2012, 15:41
they always used to do this... in the 3rd ed

Well, they have put out the odd list or update (Sisters, Daemons), but imo WD is great for specialized lists that don't need a codex or a release. I'm about as fan from a SM fanboy as one can get without, but even I'd mark the smurf out if I saw a halfway decent Iron Hands Clan list that you can use (if you want to) instead of the SM codex;) .

Inquisitor Engel
13-09-2012, 15:42
"Next week I'll give you a few insights into what you can expect from the new-look White Dwarf, which will be relaunched on 22nd September (and in plentiful supply at Games Day UK on the 23rd)."


So I'm going to assume that we're NOT getting a truly digital version of the magazine via Apple Newsstand and the like? Most disappointing. That would probably have gotten me to buy an issue, perhaps even subscribe.

MvS
13-09-2012, 15:43
Well I'm feeling hopeful. I liked the exuberance of the piece.

Looking forward to next week. :)

Vhalyar
13-09-2012, 15:44
Given that it is next to the paragraph on "send us your photos" it is probably a conversion. Especially on that base.

It is a conversion. I've seen the full picture of the model along with the rest of the unit a while ago on Dakka.

Poncho160
13-09-2012, 15:53
Hopefully they will have sloved the problem they have always had, of the print on the front cover coming off on your fingers. So many of my WDs have fingerprints all over them.

duffybear1988
13-09-2012, 15:54
Hmmmm Beth...


... must resist attraction to women with awesome hair!!! :cool:

StraightSilver
13-09-2012, 15:58
The nice thing about the old reader's letters in White Dwarf though was seeing reader's minis, and answering rules queries, although i guess that's what the What's New Today and fAQs are for.

Having said that GW have never done a "proper" reader's letters page, otherwise it would just consist of "why is everything so expensive" all the time.... ;)

Admittedly I would have preferred a return to Chapter Approved as a quaterly magazine, but if the new WD is bigger with more editorial content here's hoping they could combine the 2, although i doubt it. No doubt the new magazine will just be the same content in anew format.....

Charax
13-09-2012, 16:00
Hmmmm Beth...


... must resist attraction to women with awesome hair!!! :cool:

2 hours 47 minutes. We almost got to the three hour mark. Maybe next time

Vektorraum
13-09-2012, 16:05
So on the link did any one pay attention to the pic of the new Karn model ?

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?346678-A-gathering-of-warbands-kitbashing-in-the-EoT&p=6324548&viewfull=1#post6324548

GrottoKnight
13-09-2012, 16:07
? Derailed?

I say $12 which keeps it at 1/3 a book/codex which is kinda what is always used to be. Price jump was due especially with print sales down and internet up. Either raise price and facelift or stop printing.....I like my hard copies ......don't like to take electronics into the bathroom.

DEADMARSH
13-09-2012, 16:10
I'm as cynical as the next embittered vet but maybe, just maybe, the GW money-men have noticed that WD circulation figures have been steadily declining over the last few years and it's finally filtered into their thick heads that this might be related to the total lack of content in the mag.

That.

WD is probably fairly costly for the company to produce. True, much of the creative content is recycled from rulebooks and codexes/ army books, but the magazine is still a physical product that must be printed, shipped, and stocked. If somewhere in sliding scale economy land someone noticed the scales tipping towards too many copies being sent back because no one bought them, it would probably be easier to at least attempt to fix the problem. That being said, there's also probably another sliding scale at which selling 50,000 copies (totally made up number for purposes of example) of WD per month is actually cheaper than selling 60,000 copies, so I wouldn't hope for drastic changes.

As for the common suggestions/ complaints/ whatever...

1. More Conversions
I think the tough part here probably comes from copyrights (ironically enough, right?). If GW produces a step-by-step guide on how to convert your models with anything other than their bits, it'd better be something totally generic, because otherwise, they'll need to seek that company's permissions to take photographs of those bits to then publish in a magazine it sells. I think this is probably why all you see anymore is what most folks would call articles on kitbashing, versus true converting. They could do articles on sculpting with GS or whatever, but let's be honest- most folks don't even have the patience to paint their entire army with the most straightforward paint system ever available; how likely is it they're going to take the time to become sculptors?

I've lost track with eBay and bitz sellers and the like- does GW still sell bitz in some form or another? That might be another reason why they've cut down on the conversion coverage.

2. More rules
It seems like in these threads every time I see somebody asking for more rules/ alternate armylists/ scenarios, there's another person in another thread complaining they have to go and find WD #XXX so they can have the other have of the Sisters of Battle rules. Then everyone says, "They should be on the website!" Well, there ya go. So what's the alternative? Wait three months? Six? A year? All right, but if you have this set value out there, what's to keep your reader from not buying and instead waiting three months? Six months? A year?

3. The ads/ the cost of the magazine
The problem with the ads is this- most of that stuff is in there three different times in the same issue. First you've got the advance order section. Then there'll be some kind of how to put it together/ how to paint it type article, then lastly, like an actual full-page ad in there somewhere. That's crazy. I mean, I'm not a publishing maven, but I'd assume that magazines are like books in that you generally publish them with x, y, or z number of pages regardless of how much content you actually have. So if the guy laying out a particular month's issue has 52 pages (again- totally B.S. number used for the sake of example), but the publisher doesn't actually do a 52 page magazine, it's either 48 or 56, now that guy's either cutting or adding content, which is where i hope the full-page ads come in. Otherwise, it's just redundant and foolish.

The problem is GW wants to be the company that sells you every... single... piece of your "The hobby" experience, which is severly limiting on what ads would be both applicable and acceptable from a company standpoint. Obviously GW isn't going to advertise a competitor's product, but [i]everything/i] is a competitor's product to GW! They make the books, models, paints, brushes, sculpting material, tools, dice, templates, tape measures, bags, cases, foam, hell they even make the table you play your games on! There are many companies that produce gaming aids, alternate models, paints, etc., but they're all competitors because GW makes everything! So since you have absolutely 0 dollars/ pounds in external ad revenue, you pass the cost along to the only people besides you in the equation- the customer.

Now, take this for what it's worth- I realize a lot of people are going to read about 1/4 of what I've actually written and dismiss me as a fanboy. I'm not trying to make excuses for GW- I'm just throwing out theories I have on why WD is so bad these days. A lot of it simply boils down to not being able to please everyone, but I think a great deal just comes down to a lot of magazines are in this same perdicament these days with trying to figure out what to put on their site for free and what to put in print for pay. GW further complicates the matter for themselves because most magazines aren't also putting out products- a sports magazine can defray costs by running ads for sporting goods and the like, both in their print version and their website. GW have absolutely none of those revenue streams available.

Honestly, if it were my call, I'd probably steal a previous poster's idea and make it a quarterly. Do some battle reports from this narrative campaign perspective they're always preaching about for starters. I'm so sick of reading about how important the story is every other page of WD then get to the actual battle report and it's invariably a one-off between new codex and fill-in-the-blank. Practice what you preach, if it's that big of a deal to you. And if it's not that big of a deal, then shut up about it, write rules that are solid enough for tournament play, and call it a day. One or the other, good Lord.

P.S. I do still buy White Dwarf. It's one of the main ways I support my FLGS on a regular basis. It at least gets me in the door and looking at what he has on the shelf. I appreciate the fact that he's a good guy to talk to, seek advice from, and sells the product physically in a store. I appreciate that, so I buy stuff I probably don't really need.

EmperorNorton
13-09-2012, 16:11
I think I'll wait for Lord Damocles's review before rushing out to get the new White Dwarf.

hobbic_c
13-09-2012, 16:19
Well, they have put out the odd list or update (Sisters, Daemons), but imo WD is great for specialized lists that don't need a codex or a release. I'm about as fan from a SM fanboy as one can get without, but even I'd mark the smurf out if I saw a halfway decent Iron Hands Clan list that you can use (if you want to) instead of the SM codex;) .

couldn't agree more! the one marine army I have and loved was back in the 3rd ed. using the wd. army list for white scars! would also be a good mechanic to bring in legion rules for chaos?

stahly
13-09-2012, 16:27
I'm extremely looking forward to the change. I enjoyed WD about two years ago, even though it wasn't like in the golden days, there were regular 'Eavy Metal masterclasses, plus they had lots of painting articles on their "Astronomicon" feature on the website. But the last couple of issues were mainly full-blown pictures. I hope they bring the hobby back.

Skaven13
13-09-2012, 16:29
But why let lies get in the way of a good rant?

Gamers: "Hey GW! Yeah, you! White Dwarf is a pile of grox dung! Do something about it!"

GW: "Hey guys, we realised that White Dwarf was sub-par, so we're going to improve it by adding in the stuff that you said you wanted. Sorry."

Gamers: "NO! NO! OMG! All you want is money GW! YOU DIRTY MONEY GRABBING ****S!"

Key word here is "adding". They keep saying this thing is going to be "bigger".

We didn't need more stuff "added", we needed stuff "fixed". They need to get rid of the junk. Replace it with substantial content that should have been there in the first place. Not a big fan of paying for a printed sales pitch, but I will pay for good hobby content.

I'm hoping that is what is going to happen, and the "bigger" part isn't just "bigger" because it is still just a glorified sales pitch, just in a different format with added content that WD used to be known for. But given company trends I am not holding my breath.

Pistols At Dawn
13-09-2012, 16:30
couldn't agree more! the one marine army I have and loved was back in the 3rd ed. using the wd. army list for white scars! would also be a good mechanic to bring in legion rules for chaos?

Let me give you a preview of how this would be received.

NERDS: "OMG, they printed this list in WD which is now sold out/I lost my copy, this is worse than hitler"

GW: "Here's a digital version for the Ipad"

NERDS: "Nyyarrghh, apple.....money sucking....rant"


Alt lists were cool enough, but my (admittedly somewhat dim) memories of that era is that once extra material starts getting released no two people end up playing the game the same way. Theoretically the internet should have put an end to this issue, but GW have always been rather conservative in this regard.

Honestly though, all the content that people want to see in a decent WD can be had on-line. I buy WD for the gamer porn, to drool over the pretty pictures.

Erwos
13-09-2012, 16:30
Yeah, pretty obvious that they'd sell more magazines by dumping the advertisement articles and actually putting in ones that had new rules and fluff. As others have mentioned, the return of certain variant lists and units would be VERY appreciated.

foehammer888
13-09-2012, 16:40
I don't know, GW has a hard enough time keeping the base lists in the neighborhood of balanced and up-to-date, adding variant lists in WD will just distract them further. However, I think scenarios/mission variants would be a great addition. Planetstrike type stuff. Here is a different type of mission covering scenario A, with alt force org chart B and special rules C. Give me more ways to play with the army I have, not more armies they want to try and make me buy.

Return of good painting/converting/terrain articles would be good as well. It seems, in particular, the conversion articles were abbandoned when GW took the "we'll make a model for everything" approach.

Jadawin
13-09-2012, 16:43
Hmm, I really hope that GW dont make a pigs ear of this. WD has not been great for a number of years but in the last 12 months the quality of content has dropped dramatically, to the point of it actually being an embarrassment to the hobby and GW themselves. GW are slightly on a hiding to nothing with a proportion of the community, regardless of the content some will always say that "WD was better in xxxx" even though WD has been hit and miss for as long as I can remember (over 20 year vet!). From my own perspective I hope the amount of text in the mag increases significantly, I have no opposition to pictures of models but an interesting article on modelling, painting, terrain, or army collecting and gaming can inspire people to try other things within GW`s universe, which of course will help them to sell more toy soldiers;)

Graeme
13-09-2012, 16:48
I'm being cautiously optimistic. Stunned they're slapping a quid on the cover price though. Doesn't really affect me as I have a sub, but surely its a terrible idea if you're looking to win back lapsed readers?

theniffrig
13-09-2012, 16:53
White Dwarf was great when the Fat Bloke was editor. That for me was the golden age for the magazine. Then it lost it's way for along time becoming more of a cataloge than a magazine. However, I've got most of the BGiME mag, and that was a brilliant hobby magazine for the lord of the rings. Hopefully the new editor of WD, being a former worker on BGiME himself, can tailor the layout of this "reborn" WD to be much more hobby focused. Personally I'd like to see more rules/codexs added via the mag again & more conversion articles. Get back in touch with the actual hobbiests out there who have been playing the GW games for years.

Baggers
13-09-2012, 16:55
I'm being cautiously optimistic. Stunned they're slapping a quid on the cover price though. Doesn't really affect me as I have a sub, but surely its a terrible idea if you're looking to win back lapsed readers?

I've got to ask but where has it been said there is a price rise on white dwarf? I've seen speculation but no actual announcement that it's going up.

Graeme
13-09-2012, 16:59
Mate of mine runs an LGS. I see no reason why he'd lie/make it up.

Personally, I think it's a crazy decision.

DarkMark
13-09-2012, 17:09
Higher quality paper has always been my bug bear with WD:rolleyes:. Bigger, better, more, all new, blah, blah, blah. Sounds like a politician's speech, and I don't trust them either.

MiyamatoMusashi
13-09-2012, 17:24
The last few White Dwarfs have actually been really good in terms of hobby articles and discussion, and over the last year or two I've noticed a slow shift away from blatant marketing

What magazine have you been reading? I don't think it's White Dwarf.

Did you see the flyers issue ? It was more than twenty-five pages into the magazine until there was anything that WASN'T a full-page photo of a flyer. And you say they're shifting away from blatant marketing!?!? Come to that, show me ONE "hobby article and discussion" in the latest issue. Just one. Go on. I challenge you. There wasn't ANYTHING. Zero painting guides. Zero conversion guides. Zero tactics articles. Zero event reports. Zero list building. Zero designer's notes. Just lots and lots and lots and lots of full page photos, and adverts (in some cases thinly veiled as so-called content) for Dark Vengeance.

It doesn't matter how many more pages they add, or even if those pages are veneered with pure gold... if they don't put actual content in there, it will remain worthless. (Conversely, I for one wouldn't mind adding a quid to the price as long as the content were worthwhile. At the moment, it simply isn't).

Brotheroracle
13-09-2012, 17:28
What magazine have you been reading? I don't think it's White Dwarf.

Show me ONE "hobby article and discussion" in the latest issue. Just one. Go on. I challenge you. There wasn't ANYTHING. Zero painting guides. Zero conversion guides. Zero tactics articles. Zero event reports. Zero list building. Zero designer's notes. Just lots and lots and lots and lots of full page photos, and adverts (in some cases thinly veiled as so-called content) for Dark Vengeance.

It doesn't matter how many more pages they add, or even if those pages are veneered with pure gold... if they don't put actual content in there, it will remain worthless. (Conversely, I for one wouldn't mind adding a quid to the price as long as the content were worthwhile. At the moment, it simply isn't).

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440349a&prodId=prod1540036a

How to paint tevrigons, WD 386

"Army Project: White Scars vs Evil Sunz: This month Duncan Rhodes and Steve Bowerman show us how to paint to great armies: Space Marines and Orcs."

"Army Project: Orcs & Goblins: Duncan Rhodes revisits his Orcs & Goblins army, showing us how to paint the new Savage Orc Big Boss to add to it."

WD 389

Seriously zero hobby articles? I mean WD isn't great, but saying there is nothing hobby related in it is incorrect. I just wouldn't expect much hobby stuff in any month that a new edition is released.

Daniel36
13-09-2012, 17:28
"Even the paper is a higher quality, that's the degree to which the magazine has changed."
I can't be bothered to check, but has anyone made a funny comment about that yet?

Anyways, cool to find out the big WD overhaul wasn't just a rumour but an actuality. I REAAAAAALLY hope that they will deliver and WD will finally become that which it should be.

MiyamatoMusashi
13-09-2012, 17:35
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440349a&prodId=prod1540036a

How to paint tevrigons, WD 386

"Army Project: White Scars vs Evil Sunz: This month Duncan Rhodes and Steve Bowerman show us how to paint to great armies: Space Marines and Orcs."

"Army Project: Orcs & Goblins: Duncan Rhodes revisits his Orcs & Goblins army, showing us how to paint the new Savage Orc Big Boss to add to it."

WD 389

Seriously zero hobby articles? I mean WD isn't great, but saying there is nothing hobby related in it is incorrect. I just wouldn't expect much hobby stuff in any month that a new edition is released.

If it were incorrect, you'd be able to point to such an article in the latest issue as requested... not seven months ago.

iamjack42
13-09-2012, 17:41
If it were incorrect, you'd be able to point to such an article in the latest issue as requested... not seven months ago.

June was 7 months ago? You are correct that there was no hobby content in the most recent issue, but one swallow does not make a spring. Maybe wait until the new issue comes out to judge it.

MiyamatoMusashi
13-09-2012, 17:42
386 is 7 before 393, is it not?

iamjack42
13-09-2012, 17:43
386 is 7 before 393, is it not?

But 389 is not.

MiyamatoMusashi
13-09-2012, 17:44
But 389 is not.

...but it's still not the latest issue. Sigh.

iamjack42
13-09-2012, 17:50
...but it's still not the latest issue. Sigh.

Which i noted above, although you may have missed it, since I edited rather than double-posting.

In any event, i'd rather hear about what the new White Dwarf will be like than hear the same complaints I've heard for years about what's wrong with the old one. Seriously, its not like WD passes without criticism each month, what's to gain from slagging on it now that we know its changing? If there are complaints to be made about the new one, in all events, please, make them. But what is the value of complaints about the old version?

Nurgling Chieftain
13-09-2012, 18:01
You are correct that there was no hobby content in the most recent issue, but one swallow does not make a spring. Maybe wait until the new issue comes out to judge it.So, what, three hobby articles per year? There should be, like, three per issue. Or more. That is, if it wants to present itself as a hobby magazine and not just ad space.

ogretyrant
13-09-2012, 18:05
Don't know if this has been posted but my mates wife who works in a paper shop told me that the price was going up a quid! If this is true then they must have a huge overhaul of the mag to make me part with my money on the occasional WD!

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

Robspierre
13-09-2012, 18:08
The new cover price will be £5.50 as of the September issue with a new editorial team

Grocklock
13-09-2012, 18:09
Got to say I started getting WD at 234 and subscribbed around 3 issues later. Still to this day I have that subscription. but the magazine has gone up and down thoughb the years. But so do most magazines. But im happy with this news and look forward to the future of WD

Damien 1427
13-09-2012, 18:49
The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Sandalphon
13-09-2012, 19:56
I'm all for the revamp/fixing of White Dwarf, its long overdue.

I agree that I'd enjoy seeing more Chapter Approved and other rules additions to the magazine would be a great boon.
However, I'm also worried over seemingly "leaving people behind/out of the loop."
The last White Dwarf I purchased was issue US #365 June 2010, mostly due to the "Spearhead" article that was included.
To my knowledge GW has never released this info about that "expansion" outside of the Magazine, shouldn't there be an expiration date for such changes?
At least a way to release it via PDF on their own website ala the FAQ/Errata page? I'm all for WD to have it's exclusivity window, 6~9 months or so would be fair.
Or... why does GW seem to allow content that has already 'come and gone', go to waste without any other outlet?
Seems to me that making more options for your players games, scenarios, army lists, ect, would equal a way to increase total sales.
GW wants to sell us more models, it seems obvious giving more of a reason to do so, would make that a self fulfilling goal.

But i'm not going to delude myself, I think the "Games" part of Games Workshop is dying, since without players why bother to buy their models in the first place?

DarkLordBelial
13-09-2012, 20:38
So....'bigger' + 'higher quality paper' = price rise?

It's all in the fineprint.

Chivs
13-09-2012, 21:08
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440349a&prodId=prod1540036a
I just wouldn't expect much hobby stuff in any month that a new edition is released.

No 345. September 2008 (Release of Assault on Black Reach)

A Tale of 4 Gamers pt 2
A (small) guide with ideas on using movement trays to build terrain
Painting Workshop: Assault on Black Reach
'Eavy Metal Masterclass: Dreadlord

Plus other Content in the form of Lord of the Rings Rules for the Council of the Wise, Warhammer scenarios for raiding, 40k Scenarios concerning the Assault on Black Reach (including one for Apocalypse), Designers notes on the new boxed set, and a large and detailed battle report (at least compared to now, maybe not to WD's glory days).

No 369. September 2010 (Release of Island of Blood)

Battlefields: Building the Island of Blood board
Painting Masters interview with Joe Tomaszewsi
Ask 'Eavy Metal - A selection of small guides based on Reader questions
Army Masters - Christian Byrnes Lord of the Rings armies
Painting Workshop - Imperial Guard Tank Markings

Plus other content in the form of Apocalypse formations for Chaos Daemons, A new Lord of the Rings scenario, designers notes and a battle report.

Yes I would expect hobby content, even in a month releasing a new edition. I expected a painting guide for the new models at the very least.

Angelwing
13-09-2012, 22:48
The last White Dwarf I purchased was issue US #365 June 2010, mostly due to the "Spearhead" article that was included.
To my knowledge GW has never released this info about that "expansion" outside of the Magazine, shouldn't there be an expiration date for such changes?
At least a way to release it via PDF on their own website ala the FAQ/Errata page? I'm all for WD to have it's exclusivity window, 6~9 months or so would be fair.


Spearhead is on the website as a PDF

Gaming - Gaming and Collecting Articles - Downloads

You do have to sign in, but thats free anyway.

I agree though that such articles should all turn up on the website after a period. I'm still waiting for an official PDF of the battle sisters codex to turn up. Sadly GW priced me out of it with the WD articles.

paddyalexander
13-09-2012, 22:57
But i'm not going to delude myself, I think the "Games" part of Games Workshop is dying, since without players why bother to buy their models in the first place?

There have been qoutes from various sources, including from Jervis Johnson trough standard bearer that only two thirds of the people who buy gwPLC minitures also use them to play gwPLCs game systems. That is a lot of customers who are collectors/painters or use them in other games systems and rpgs.

gwPLC have also stated on many occassions that the rulesets exist for one purpose only, to sell toy soldiers to children.

lbecks
13-09-2012, 23:19
There have been qoutes from various sources, including from Jervis Johnson trough standard bearer that only two thirds of the people who buy gwPLC minitures also use them to play gwPLCs game systems. That is a lot of customers who are collectors/painters or use them in other games systems and rpgs.

gwPLC have also stated on many occassions that the rulesets exist for one purpose only, to sell toy soldiers to children.

I buy models because I like the models. If WD was just about how they design the models, some fictional background about the models, and how to paint the models to a really high standard, I would be the happiest person in the world.

Sandalphon
14-09-2012, 00:02
Spearhead is on the website as a PDF

Gaming - Gaming and Collecting Articles - Downloads

You do have to sign in, but thats free anyway.

I agree though that such articles should all turn up on the website after a period. I'm still waiting for an official PDF of the battle sisters codex to turn up. Sadly GW priced me out of it with the WD articles.

Thank you for that, wasn't aware that was on the website. Show's how often I've bothered too look at their website. :rolleyes:


There have been qoutes from various sources, including from Jervis Johnson trough standard bearer that only two thirds of the people who buy gwPLC minitures also use them to play gwPLCs game systems. That is a lot of customers who are collectors/painters or use them in other games systems and rpgs.

Exactly my point, so if two thirds of a companies -sales- are to that market of the -players- that are the -largest- portion of your sales where inclined to buy more, wouldn't that be better for your company?
Making the game systems more attractive sells more units of your models, that would go hand in hand. If GW pushed WD to expand on there -interaction- with their customers as the first line of public face that would be an improvement.
Just look around, I've read more then my fair share of distaste about GW, Most of this thread seems to feel that WD is nothing but a catalog and has been so for a long time. WD might be a good place to start making people excited again.
And I'll bite, of the remaining third how many of those consumers are involved in the secondary market of sales? Painting services for example? They have to get their stock to sell from GW eventually yes?
Or think of it another way, if the 66.6%~ took their gaming/buying elsewhere would the remaining 33.3% be enough to keep GW afloat? I think not.

ModernKiwi
14-09-2012, 00:03
It's all in the fineprint.

You mean finecastprint...

williamsond
14-09-2012, 00:05
Price confirmed by my local retailer as £5.50 as of next issue :( i hope it's not just another money grabbing scheme by GW, please don't burn us again you used to love us once...


just had an official WD update from GW - Its going up to £5.50 per issue - it better be bloody good !

Lord Dan
14-09-2012, 00:14
What lovely font your local retailer uses.

Treadhead_1st
14-09-2012, 01:05
What magazine have you been reading? I don't think it's White Dwarf.

I dunno, but it says "White Dwarf" on the cover and features exclusively Games Workshop-related content.


Did you see the flyers issue ? It was more than twenty-five pages into the magazine until there was anything that WASN'T a full-page photo of a flyer. And you say they're shifting away from blatant marketing!?!?

Yup, I did see the Flyer issue. Page 4 & 5, double-page spread of Orcs and Goblins versus Empire (I believe 4 is a little less than 25). Sure, that is advertising *some* new releases, but an awful lot of the models (the vast majority in the photo) aren't. Page 24-28, painting the Storm Talon step-by-step. Page 29-39, full background for the Battle for Cardrim. Page 40-45, shots of the armies used in the campaign/battle report with background for each unit. Page 46-47, a new scenario for 40K. Page 52-62, painting White Scars and Orks set-by-step. Page 64-65, Standard Bearer on the diversity of the hobby. Page 66-77, background and rules for 4 new 40K units. Can I stop there please? Yes, there's an awful lot of stuff on Flyers in the issue - hardly surprising as they had just launched 6 new models for 3 different armies, with accompanying rules and a special scenario for them. No bloody wonder they want to market the damn things having put out that many kits (and Flyers being the new shiny at this moment in time); haven't we been calling for more rules-related content of White Dwarf, yet when it is put in (in what must have been a relatively quiet month as they were gearing up for the launch of 6th Edition and the Design Studio Open Day) with background and lots of photos to see the models from a variety of angles, it is "blatant advertising".


Come to that, show me ONE "hobby article and discussion" in the latest issue. Just one. Go on. I challenge you. There wasn't ANYTHING. Zero painting guides. Zero conversion guides. Zero tactics articles. Zero event reports. Zero list building. Zero designer's notes. Just lots and lots and lots and lots of full page photos, and adverts (in some cases thinly veiled as so-called content) for Dark Vengeance.

Just one? Ok, there's the background for the various Dark Vengeance contents (to the point of named squads and their backstories) including a short novel excerpt relating to Dark Vengeance. There's an Eavy Metal showcase of close-ups of details (either of the models or painted). I get the feeling you won't accept those, as they are "thinly veiled adverts", so how about the Painting Showcase from page 72-75 featuring the Dark Vengeance stuff in various different colour-schemes? Still no? Fair enough, how about the "modelling workshop" from pages 78-81 featuring a wide range of Space Marine conversions/kit-bashes? What about the "Armies on Parade" from page 84-87? The "Hall of Fame" Slann/Lizardmen nomination? What about the "Golden Daemon: Daemons" double-page spread? Or the "Forge World: Red Scorpions" with brief discussion from the collector/modeller/painter, including hobby advice on weathering?Or the "Warhammer: Ancient Rivals" showcase of two large Fantasy armies, neither of which are new "flavour of the month" types?

Sure, there's not a lot in that issue - and I think it is weaker for it - but given the launch of a new edition the month before and the launch of a new Starter Set (which featured 6 battle-report bastardisations, technically 12 if you include the "replay" boxes) which has some truly impressive miniatures that are a veritable revolution in plastic detailing (seriously, the Chosen? Wow.), I'm surprised that there was as much "other stuff" in there too.


It doesn't matter how many more pages they add, or even if those pages are veneered with pure gold... if they don't put actual content in there, it will remain worthless. (Conversely, I for one wouldn't mind adding a quid to the price as long as the content were worthwhile. At the moment, it simply isn't).

At the moment it still has a long way to go, this is true. But even the September issue on Dark Vengeance has a hell of a lot more useful content than the average White Dwarf of 1-2 years ago, as have the last several months' worth of issues (with each later month improving on the one before). If you'd read my post, you would know that I really want more content in there - I was just saying that as it has been improving (from bottom of the barrel to floating on the scummy water of a quarter-full barrel) I could well believe that White Dwarf will see significant improvements.

lbecks
14-09-2012, 01:16
Price confirmed by my local retailer as £5.50 as of next issue :( i hope it's not just another money grabbing scheme by GW, please don't burn us again you used to love us once...

I guess that's a price bump for the US one too. I sure hope it doesn't become a "lifestyle" magazine.

lbecks
14-09-2012, 01:44
There's some more info on "What's New Today" about the new WD:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=4200016

First thought: Ugh, I don't want to see random people's miniatures in the magazine. "Some of the best might even make their way into the pages of White Dwarf magazine itself" I have the internet GW, I can see random people's minis any time I want. It would be interesting if they had guest columnists do painting articles, particularly about things the GW paint team doesn't do themselves. US WD used to do this around a decade ago it was interesting. But random pictures pulled from the flickr stream, no thanks. That's lazy.

Lord Dan
14-09-2012, 02:01
I guess that's a price bump for the US one too. I sure hope it doesn't become a "lifestyle" magazine.

I'm not so sure. WD is $9 here in the states, and bumping the UK price to £5.50 actually brings it in line with what we're paying.

...not that GW has a reputation for cross-currency price consistency, however one can dream.

MajorWesJanson
14-09-2012, 03:36
I'm not so sure. WD is $9 here in the states, and bumping the UK price to £5.50 actually brings it in line with what we're paying.

...not that GW has a reputation for cross-currency price consistency, however one can dream.

At most I'd expect a bump to $10 USD. Or 22 AUD.

Vadskśr
14-09-2012, 08:11
I'm all for the revamp/fixing of White Dwarf, its long overdue.

But i'm not going to delude myself, I think the "Games" part of Games Workshop is dying, since without players why bother to buy their models in the first place?

Well, some people, like myself, buy their models because we like to paint them. Not play with them. ;-)

MiyamatoMusashi
14-09-2012, 08:49
Just one? Ok, there's the background for the various Dark Vengeance contents (to the point of named squads and their backstories) including a short novel excerpt relating to Dark Vengeance. There's an Eavy Metal showcase of close-ups of details (either of the models or painted). I get the feeling you won't accept those, as they are "thinly veiled adverts", so how about the Painting Showcase from page 72-75 featuring the Dark Vengeance stuff in various different colour-schemes? Still no? Fair enough, how about the "modelling workshop" from pages 78-81 featuring a wide range of Space Marine conversions/kit-bashes? What about the "Armies on Parade" from page 84-87? The "Hall of Fame" Slann/Lizardmen nomination? What about the "Golden Daemon: Daemons" double-page spread? Or the "Forge World: Red Scorpions" with brief discussion from the collector/modeller/painter, including hobby advice on weathering?Or the "Warhammer: Ancient Rivals" showcase of two large Fantasy armies, neither of which are new "flavour of the month" types?

Almost everything you listed is just photos. How is a photo of a Fantasy army "hobby content" - flavour of the month or otherwise? I know Fantasy armies exist. I've seen photos of them before. You can't take two photos spread over four pages and say "see? Hobby content!" How about something about how they were painted, how they were converted, how colour theory supports the colour scheme, why those units were chosen, how the army performs on the tabletop, future plans, things that were tried but didn't really work, something about the campaign the armies were apparently painted for... not just a big photo.

If your definition of "hobby content" is "a photo" then yeah, sure, White Dwarf is overflowing with hobby content. Do you also consider colouring-in books examples of prime literature?

Foolish Mortal
14-09-2012, 10:12
Well, a price rise sucks, but lets face it hardly unexpected really.....but still.:mad:

If they intend to show readers models, conversions & all, then just for the lulz, someone should send them pictures of figures converted with Chapter House bits, see if they make it into WD :evilgrin:

zoggin-eck
14-09-2012, 10:18
At most I'd expect a bump to $10 USD. Or 22 AUD.

I see that the AUD price is you having a joke, and this thread is going beyond the usual "lets sneakily complain about price despite the rules" but you know what? For a really good magazine, I'd be up for it.

My girlfriend and I have been buying the UK mag "Retro Gamer" (and people thought White Dwarf was dorky!) each month for $15. At first, the price put me off and I was horrified to think of the money spent when she bought two one day. Now, I find I get one good night of reading, plus a few days skipping through it while cooking/watching TV to catch up on bits I may have missed, and rather look forward to it. If White Dwarf could become a magazine you can't get through in one piece of toast and a mouthful of tea, then I'll be very happy.

williamsond
14-09-2012, 10:42
I would like them to give some of the other GW games some love, I know they hate to admit it becasuse you don't have to keep buying lots of figures every 12 months, but people still play Bloodbowl. the odd bit of specialst games content wouldn't go a miss.

Foolish Mortal
14-09-2012, 11:10
I would like them to give some of the other GW games some love, I know they hate to admit it becasuse you don't have to keep buying lots of figures every 12 months, but people still play Bloodbowl. the odd bit of specialst games content wouldn't go a miss.

Yep that would do me too, you know - actually show some love for games YOU sell.

I am a bit miffed about a price rise, but really if and I mean IF WD really does improve, then I wouldn't begrudge paying it, I just think they should have done the re-launch first, seen how it went, then upped the price - now your gettig a rise on an unknown, and that will probably put some off.

StraightSilver
14-09-2012, 11:24
I might have to play devil's advocate here and say that i actually don't think £5.50 is that bad a price for a full colour magazine, as long as it has a decent amount of content.

Most computer games magazines range from £3 - £6, and are just as chock full of adverts but they do at least have informative reviews or info on upcoming releases.

If WD is going to try to emulate Edge magazine then £5.50 is about right, and I don't know if any of you read Edge but as a computer games magazine it's a bit lacking in content for the average punter, about half of it is job adverts for people in the industry.

The problem White Dwarf will face though if it is trying to emulate other magazines is what the hell will you put in it?

Reviews are pointless as they are all in house so will be too biassed, can you ever imagine WD giving a bad review of a GW product?

News and upcoming releases will only ever be for the next 7 days, so again totally pointless, especially if like me you have to wait about a week for your local newsagent to get WD in and I can't be arsed to go to my local GW just to buy it.

Interviews would also be fairly pointless, although having said that I would like the magazine to feature more content across the whole company, so inclusive of Black Library, Forge World etc.

So proper interviews with BL authors, FW designers etc.

And how about some proper news. maybe a feature on how finecast is actually produced, with a bit of honesty about how it's all new and they are still getting the bugs out.

And yes, proper battle reports, not just an advert where the army of the month wins every time to make them look good. And rules, FAQs, missions etc.

And I am actually quite excited about the prospect of being able to have an army featured in WD, it's been a dream for a while and i would also like to see some of the other amazing armies I have admired on the internet for years make it too. :)

So if the new WD is like that it will be cool.

Sadly though i get the feeling it will just be more expensive with more adverts.....

Daniel36
14-09-2012, 13:04
I might have to play devil's advocate here and say that i actually don't think £5.50 is that bad a price for a full colour magazine, as long as it has a decent amount of content.

It's not playing devil's advocate. I think everyone will agree that 5.50 will be a good price as long as there is something inside that justifies it.
For me, this would be :
Additional scenarios for their games
Additional special rules such as magic items for their games
Additional character options for their games
Paint guides
Showcases of armies that are NOT the stock 'Eavy Metal
Scenery building articles, preferably without me having to buy three Deathskull Skeleton Manses of Skully Flame Skulls before I can actually build it
Additional background information on the various factions of the GW worlds
Support for the Specialist Games

The thing is, all these things HAVE BEEN in the White Dwarfs, even in the most recent issues. But they are so few and far between, that it just doesn't AT ALL warrant the price White Dwarf is now. It's like they pick one of the above and put that one thing in between all the adverts.

If you think about it, it isn't really that difficult for them to produce a good mag.


I heard it is called "finepaper tm".
Check your magazine for holes though, before you take it home.


My girlfriend and I have been buying the UK mag "Retro Gamer" (and people thought White Dwarf was dorky!) each month for $15.
Retro Gamer is bloody awesome!! It's like my favourite magazines of old all over again. I don't buy it though, I can only find it at one spot and I can't be bothered to travel to it just for a mag.

EmperorNorton
14-09-2012, 13:12
I think everyone will agree that 5.50 will be a good price as long as there is something inside that justifies it.
Now that's just a truism. It'll be worth the price if it'll be worth the price.

White Dwarf in Euroland currently costs 7€. If we get the same price increase it probably will be 8,50€. IMO that's quite a lot for a magazine, more than most.
Can I see myself spending that much on a magazine? I guess so. But I think it should be possible to publish a good magazine with a cover price of 7€.


Check your magazine for holes though, before you take it home.
I don't think there will be holes, just blank pages. So you can add interesting content yourself.

Treadhead_1st
14-09-2012, 13:31
Almost everything you listed is just photos.

No [censored], Sherlock. It's a magazine, of course it's photos. I've already said White Dwarf isn't up to par, having actual discussions from the collectors/modellers/painters would be fantastic - but the content in the Dark Vengeance WD is a hell of a lot better than the content in the era of the Fantasy Giant Issue.


How is a photo of a Fantasy army "hobby content" - flavour of the month or otherwise? I know Fantasy armies exist. I've seen photos of them before. You can't take two photos spread over four pages and say "see? Hobby content!"

Because it is showcasing units with extensive conversions rather than stock "Studio armies" that feature on the websites? There is a dire lack of any commentary from the people who made them, but the fact that it is not a blatant advert for newly-released miniatures is refreshing to see, and also undercuts your point (even if it is not comprehensive enough, it is still hobby content - which you were saying there was none of - unless you don't count conversions as being "hobby content" in which case I can see what your problem might be).


How about something about how they were painted, how they were converted, how colour theory supports the colour scheme, why those units were chosen, how the army performs on the tabletop, future plans, things that were tried but didn't really work, something about the campaign the armies were apparently painted for... not just a big photo.

That's what I want to see in future White Dwarf. Perhaps not all at once - if they are showcasing the conversions for an army, I don't give a monkey's about why specific units were chosen or how they perform. If it was a gaming article, then naturally I would, but then I wouldn't give two hoots about the details of the conversions and paint scheme. Were it a comprehensive article then I would worry it would ramble too much and have no overall good informative points. These are the things that White Dwarf is lacking compared to when I was first reading it (some 11 years ago now, if not more).


If your definition of "hobby content" is "a photo" then yeah, sure, White Dwarf is overflowing with hobby content. Do you also consider colouring-in books examples of prime literature?

Yes, those personal jabs are certainly making you appear reasonable. You asked for "one" example of hobby content, yet have ignored the multi-page article on Space Marine conversions and the short commentary (which is actually very informative) on weathering vehicles/Marines from the guy with the Red Scorpions army in favour of bagging on everything else I threw at you. My point was that your earlier comments were entirely hyperbole and glossed-over a lot of content that was in the magazine. I don't know why you think I am not critical of White Dwarf - I've already explained why I am posting twice (technically three if you count my first paragraph here too).

And no, I would not consider colouring-in books to be examples of prime literature, but they're still fun from time-to-time when you don't want to slog through a full novel ;).

lbecks
14-09-2012, 14:25
If it's worth buying, I'd pay more for it... heck, if it's good again, I'll actually subscribe again. :)

The bit about paper confuses me... was it made of poor paper before? I don't know if I've ever noticed a magazine that had "better paper", WD just seemed to have the same paper as any magazine.

Current WD has good paper, it's fairly thick and substantial, though the current year's issues have had weak cover ink. There was a period when they were switching printer companies and the paper quality and picture resolution was sub-par. Since you're in the US you should check out getting a subscription from miniature market. 50 dollars per year is pretty good.

MiyamatoMusashi
14-09-2012, 15:05
No [censored], Sherlock. It's a magazine, of course it's photos. I've already said White Dwarf isn't up to par, having actual discussions from the collectors/modellers/painters would be fantastic - but the content in the Dark Vengeance WD is a hell of a lot better than the content in the era of the Fantasy Giant Issue.

No, it really isn't.

The Giant issue stood out at the time as bad. Compared to recent WDs, it's a work of art. Don't just parrot the internet line of the Giant issue being terrible - go and read it, and compare it to this month's Dark Vengeance issue. You will be surprised at just how much of it is actual content - and how comparatively little is "BUY THE GIANT". Of course there's some of that in there, that's why it was criticised at the time, but there's also a heck of a lot in there that isn't just photos of the latest release.

Treadhead_1st
14-09-2012, 15:48
No, it really isn't.

The Giant issue stood out at the time as bad. Compared to recent WDs, it's a work of art. Don't just parrot the internet line of the Giant issue being terrible - go and read it, and compare it to this month's Dark Vengeance issue. You will be surprised at just how much of it is actual content - and how comparatively little is "BUY THE GIANT". Of course there's some of that in there, that's why it was criticised at the time, but there's also a heck of a lot in there that isn't just photos of the latest release.

I've been getting White Dwarf on-and-off for around 11 years, I've read the Giant issue and a lot surrounding it - it was truly atrocious. To me, the golden era is that under Fat Bloke, with the Tale of 4 Gamers featuring Matt Hutson's Black Templars, Graham Davy's (iirc) Black Legion, Phil Kelly's Eldar and Fat Bloke's White Scars, as well as terrain building guidelines, as well as the global campaign for the Battle for Armageddon, along with the various Index: Astartes and Index: Xenos articles. I suppose that credit could be given to even before Fat Bloke was the editor, back when we had card inserts of terrain and guides to make bunkers out of styrofoam and cardboard around the start of 3rd Edition, or perhaps some of the Dwarfs from 2nd Edition, but that content never seemed right given the tonal shift in GW products over that time - so it is a case of lots of quantity but poor quality then which is why I prefer the Fat Bloke era. I'm not parroting an internet line, but the "Giant issue" is a great way to refer to that era of the WD team and truly low levels of content, and I will freely admit that some of the more recent WDs have been utterly appalling. Over the last few years there have been some saving graces - the Dark Eldar designer's notes article, and similar things, but the level of content has been rather low (and republished for free online a lot of the time). But since the launch of the Sisters of Battle codex there has been a slow increase of rules and hobby content (relative to the dire years, that is, rather than relative to how it used to be 5-10 years ago).

I'm not sure what your problem is - my point all along is that WD is still fairly bad (see the comments about scummy water barrels), but I can well believe the new team and statements of a radical change are believable given the (relative to the poor years) increase in content over the last year or so. What you have cited as being missing is exactly what I want to see, to make White Dwarf actually worth something again (well, that and proper proof-reading - the odd mistake is unfortunately inevitable in GW products, but I still remember an entire page of the "Eavy Metal High Elf Prince on Grifffon Masterclass" being printed in Spanish). I could be proven wrong, but I am actually optimistic about the changes, and only time will tell if GW can actually pull off a decent WD or whether it is just an excuse for a price-rise.

Sparowl
14-09-2012, 16:36
Frankly, I'd be just as interested in WD moving online, or rather being retired and having Black Gobbo come back. I felt like the content in BG was better for the most part then the WD at the same times. Certainly it was vastly superior to this current run of WD.

I'm not even against paying a bit for BG. But without a huge increase in quality of articles for WD, I can't see buying them.

General Veers
14-09-2012, 16:47
Walked into my FLGS and asked the owner "What's new from Games Workshop?"

He replied "They just told me when the next White Dwarf was going to be sent and the price is going up a dollar."

shelfunit.
14-09-2012, 18:08
I'm willing to give it a chance, but it really needs to be a massive improvement straight from the first "new" issue. Lord Damocles seems to have similar opinions to mine as to what makes decent content in a WD (must be an East Anglian thing) so I will wait for his dissection of it first.

Mastodon
14-09-2012, 18:18
White Dwarf will never go online. It exists as another way for GW to get people into stores/independents to buy stuff.

Sparowl
14-09-2012, 19:32
And that shows that GW is still behind the times. Let me put it this way: in an average day, I look at three to five links that people on Facebook have "liked" because it looks interesting and if one of my friends has liked it, then I might also. There's been things I've ended up buying or donating money to (kickstarter comes to mind immediately) based on that.

If GW were to post WD or BG online, how many of us would "like" it? The bonus to that would be GW being able to track our "like" patterns and find out what to post more of and what type of articles to drop.

Of course, maybe I'm wrong. I'm sure GW is right in thinking that this "Internet social media" thing is just a phase. Obviously investing into what is going to be a short run phenomenon is a terrible idea. Print is still the future!

Ghal Maraz
14-09-2012, 20:44
According to my FLGS, the italian WD is going to go up one euro, from 7 to 8.
I guess it will be common to almost all euroland...

synapse
15-09-2012, 07:06
According to my FLGS, the italian WD is going to go up one euro, from 7 to 8.
I guess it will be common to almost all euroland...

...apart from malta apparently, where its already Ä7.70. if it turns out to be quality, maybe its time for a sub

Lord Dan
15-09-2012, 07:37
From the general feedback in this thread people don't seem too bothered by the current price, they're just all looking for a reason to start buying the magazine again. Interestingly I suspect that even if GW were to just return to the quality of 5+ years ago they'd have great success with this reboot.

mojo jojo
15-09-2012, 10:20
From the general feedback in this thread people don't seem too bothered by the current price, they're just all looking for a reason to start buying the magazine again. Interestingly I suspect that even if GW were to just return to the quality of 5+ years ago they'd have great success with this reboot.


Arn't you (Lord Dan) that guy that was ranting about how GW and their new digital codex for iPad will fail about 5 months back?

Daniel36
15-09-2012, 10:50
Of course, maybe I'm wrong. I'm sure GW is right in thinking that this "Internet social media" thing is just a phase. Obviously investing into what is going to be a short run phenomenon is a terrible idea. Print is still the future!

If that is sarcasm, then you might as well call GW a bunch of idiots for not abandoning miniatures completely and just go over to videogames.
So let me put it this way: On an average week I get agitated about once on how stupid I personally think Facebook and the likes is, and then go on about my day. I spend more time flicking through past paper White Dwarf articles than I do on both checking their website or any Facebook page. I suspect that is true for more wargamers than you might think.

So I don't think it's stupid of them to keep releasing magazines. I haven't really liked their magazines in the past few years, and I also think they could do SOOOO much better than what they have done so far, but that doesn't mean I rather look at an article online. Call me old fashioned, but I like the feel of paper.

shelfunit.
15-09-2012, 10:52
Arn't you (Lord Dan) that guy that was ranting about how GW and their new digital codex for iPad will fail about 5 months back?

Quite possibly, but that has nothing to do with what you quoted...

Brother Dimetrius
15-09-2012, 11:06
According the FB update from one of my local GW's, it'll be 40 pages thicker, which are implied to be "full of hobby articles". We'll see I guess.

violenceha
15-09-2012, 11:11
Is a hobby article more than just four colors in four pictures?

cbelm
15-09-2012, 12:32
Anyone have a tip on the AUD price increase? Would be surprised with anything less than a $2 hike...

Trasvi
15-09-2012, 12:40
Ok, I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but:

Just talked to my FLGS owner and had a chat about the new WD. Apparently he was on the phone with GW doing an order and talking about the new WD. He says it will be *small form factor* magazine. I don't know what the official designation is, but is going to be about the size of the National Geographic magazines (?). Or, according to the store owner, the GW rep described it as 'about as big as an iPad'....

The Australian price he said will be bumped up 5c to an even $12.

mojo jojo
15-09-2012, 12:56
Quite possibly, but that has nothing to do with what you quoted...


So you quote me just to tell us this? Are you Lord Dan? I wanted to get his attention and to let him know that I'm speaking to him.

And also to remind him in a friendly way that .... he was wrong about the digital before, but I think he is right about his one. WD can't get any worst.. so it's pie in the sky from here on out.

Wintermute
15-09-2012, 12:58
If we combine this

According the FB update from one of my local GW's, it'll be 40 pages thicker, which are implied to be "full of hobby articles". We'll see I guess.

with this


He says it will be *small form factor* magazine. I don't know what the official designation is, but is going to be about the size of the National Geographic magazines (?). Or, according to the store owner, the GW rep described it as 'about as big as an iPad'....

then are we really getting more content?

An additional 40 pages for a product which is physically smaller than its predecessor is not an increase, is it? But lets wait and see.

zoggin-eck
15-09-2012, 13:00
Trasvi, not sure if I like the sound of that. Can't pinpoint why, but I've never liked mags that size.



The Australian price he said will be bumped up 5c to an even $12.

Ha, there's enough call to do away with five cent coins anyway (aww, but I like echindnas!) so maybe they're just early adopters :D




then are we really getting more content?


I still hope so, but I get your point. If they use it as an excuse to make what would otherwise have been single page ads/spreads into two pagers, I'll be pretty disappointed. I've always found White Dwarf's page size, artful borders and font just right in my eyes. Despite a recent lack of content and the usual complaints about their editing, GW makes some nice "looking" magazines and books.

shelfunit.
15-09-2012, 13:05
Just talked to my FLGS owner and had a chat about the new WD. Apparently he was on the phone with GW doing an order and talking about the new WD. He says it will be *small form factor* magazine. I don't know what the official designation is, but is going to be about the size of the National Geographic magazines (?). Or, according to the store owner, the GW rep described it as 'about as big as an iPad'....

If that is accurate then I have quickly crunched some numbers and that equates to 14 additional pages at "current" size WD material.

lbecks
15-09-2012, 13:27
I still hope so, but I get your point. If they use it as an excuse to make what would otherwise have been single page ads/spreads into two pagers, I'll be pretty disappointed. I've always found White Dwarf's page size, artful borders and font just right in my eyes. Despite a recent lack of content and the usual complaints about their editing, GW makes some nice "looking" magazines and books.

I liked that they could show full size pics of new releases. Though that got wonky as they introduced size inflation to make new releases look bigger. The font became increasingly larger over time as the actual content decreased.

Eldarin Hope
15-09-2012, 13:46
Space is not really the same as content though. By this I mean a double page that is essentially just a photograph is 2 pages of the bigger size or the small size, it doesn't then spill onto the subsequent pages to make up an equal amount of magazine space.

williamsond
15-09-2012, 14:07
I really want this new WD not to suck please don't let us down again GW, every time they make a hash of the next big thing a little bit more of my spirit dies.

Bladelord
15-09-2012, 14:49
I certainly miss the old White Dwarfs with their wealth of hobby and background articles. I will welcome any improvement after the decay these last years. I have also been puzzled about the scarce number of articles about fanmade hobby things in WD, since it is free content and inspires the readers as much as the staff-made articles.

On a side note, I am dubious for the National Geographic format (and then I'm not even meaning the lack of text as opposed to a Swedish popular scientiftic magazine), but we shall see.

Lord Dan
15-09-2012, 15:20
Arn't you (Lord Dan) that guy that was ranting about how GW and their new digital codex for iPad will fail about 5 months back?
Yeah. What on earth does that have to do with this thread?



So you quote me just to tell us this? Are you Lord Dan? I wanted to get his attention and to let him know that I'm speaking to him.

And also to remind him in a friendly way that .... he was wrong about the digital before, but I think he is right about his one. WD can't get any worst.. so it's pie in the sky from here on out.
No need for rudeness.

If you agree with me about something, what's the point of bringing up something entirely unrelated that we happen to disagree on? I'd also argue that it might be a little early to claim I was wrong about the digital army books, given that it's only been 3 months and we have nothing in the way of sales information.

mojo jojo
15-09-2012, 16:08
Yeah. What on earth does that have to do with this thread?



No need for rudeness.

If you agree with me about something, what's the point of bringing up something entirely unrelated that we happen to disagree on? I'd also argue that it might be a little early to claim I was wrong about the digital army books, given that it's only been 3 months and we have nothing in the way of sales information.


How am I being rude? The other guy intruded for nothing. I just wanted to know if you were that guy.... because when I read the thread back then...I remember somebody keep saying that digital will fail, iPad sucks... etc
Why is it that if I asked hey Dan... are you that guy at the pub from Italy Games Day wearing the Ninja mask, it would be ok....

I just wanted to know if you were that guy, the reason for it is something I wish not to post because you would be offended.

However, we do agree about the White Dwarf.

Daniel36
15-09-2012, 16:57
I certainly miss the old White Dwarfs with their wealth of hobby and background articles.

Honestly though, I think a lot of people have somewhat rose tinted glasses on when it comes to the older White Dwarfs. I had a couple of real old ones, and their content wasn't all that much bigger or better than the newer ones. I think the only difference was some content for Specialist Games and the scenery building articles didn't require GW products.

Lord Dan
15-09-2012, 17:00
How am I being rude? The other guy intruded for nothing. I just wanted to know if you were that guy.... because when I read the thread back then...I remember somebody keep saying that digital will fail, iPad sucks... etc
Why is it that if I asked hey Dan... are you that guy at the pub from Italy Games Day wearing the Ninja mask, it would be ok....

I just wanted to know if you were that guy, the reason for it is something I wish not to post because you would be offended.

However, we do agree about the White Dwarf.

Asking if I wore a ninja mask is not the same as asking whether or not I made a statement that you feel has subsequently been proven wrong. Additionally you're remembering that thread incorrectly: I never said iPad sucks, I said that GW's eBook line would ultimately be unsuccessful because they've priced the product far too high. Time will tell for sure, and I look forward to seeing sales figures and a report on it next June.

I wasn't even offended by that, but by your rude comments to someone I happen to respect a good deal. He "intruded" because your comment seemed to be completely random, and it's nice to know that I'm not the only one who thinks so.

Daniel36
15-09-2012, 17:17
Mojo Jojo, with all due respect, be careful when dealing with Lord Dan. As you can see in his avatar, he carries a rather big gun, and he isn't afraid to use it.
But let's continue discussing whether or not we think the WD overhaul will be a good thing!

Skaven13
15-09-2012, 17:19
If we combine this


with this



then are we really getting more content?

An additional 40 pages for a product which is physically smaller than its predecessor is not an increase, is it? But lets wait and see.

No, we're not. Like I said before, the needed to fix it, not add in some stuff that might be worthwhile alongside the garbage that isn't, then decide to charge more for it.

Personally, I hope it bombs big time so I can see Lord Damocles continue his humorously accurate reviews. I'm his number 1 fan!

Chivs
15-09-2012, 17:48
Won't a new size White Dwarf be awkward to fit alongside all the others this year that are creating a picture along the spines?

To be fair to the price increase, it's been £4.50 for a long time; since either November or December 2008 scanning back through my old White Dwarfs. On the other hand it has not been worth £4.50 for a long time, so the revamp alone doesn't justify charging more for it.

I wonder if they will start including articles on conversions again, which I would like to see. It's harder for them now with everything going plastic, and the removal of the bits service. Back in he old days, it was dead simple: A March 98 Citadel Journal focused on Chaos conversions, had a list of all the suitable parts from a number of ranges (with codes and prices), a few ideas of what they'd come up with , and sold them as conversion kits through Mail Order.
I remember their website once contained a conversion kit for Cadian Rough Riders, all in plastic. It was more than just simply a Guardsmen on a Space Marine bike: I can't remember the full part list but I do know that as well as a Cadian Guardsmen sprue, it included a Space Marine Bike sprue and (old) Dark Eldar Reaver Jetbike sprue. The key word there is Sprue: to make 3 Bikers it cost over £60 and left a lot of spare bits (They did have an 'add it to cart' option for this).

If they go back to conversion articles, will they acknowledge that there are now Bits sellers online where you can get the parts used? Or will they continue the style of 'Look what we can do with infinite resources - Good luck trying to replicate this!' that they've used in their terrain articles of the last few years?
I know that articles can serve as inspiration to try your own thing, but you should also be able to be inspired to go "Yes, I want to do that!"

Sparowl
15-09-2012, 17:52
If that is sarcasm, then you might as well call GW a bunch of idiots for not abandoning miniatures completely and just go over to videogames.

Yes, because comparing my suggestion of supplementing or moving the magazine online (two different suggestions, by the way) is similar to suggesting that a company completely change its business paradigm to one they don't really have experience with in-house (production of games. Yes, I know DoW, etc., but those weren't made in house).

Good straw-man, though.


So let me put it this way: On an average week I get agitated about once on how stupid I personally think Facebook and the likes is, and then go on about my day. I spend more time flicking through past paper White Dwarf articles than I do on both checking their website or any Facebook page. I suspect that is true for more wargamers than you might think.

Which is great! Except you wouldn't be the target audience. You know, since you already play wargames? Significantly less point in advertising to you, then to people who haven't invested in the hobby yet.

All advertising will fail with a certain set of the population. However, the goal is to generate awareness, so that people who didn't know about it might decide to go make a purchase. If people start seeing "likes" about some game they've never heard of, they might click and decide to buy into it. Suddenly GW has another customer.


So I don't think it's stupid of them to keep releasing magazines. I haven't really liked their magazines in the past few years, and I also think they could do SOOOO much better than what they have done so far, but that doesn't mean I rather look at an article online. Call me old fashioned, but I like the feel of paper.

I prefer paper to online for the most part also. My wife and I have just begun inventorying our books after a move, and have topped 3k paperbacks, with more to go! However, an advertisement (which is what WD really is), doesn't do a lot of good being a print run, if the print run is only really carried in stores that pre-existing customers already go to. Online publications have a greater chance to reach people due to the geographically neutral reach of things like facebook and other social media.

Of course, we're straying a bit from the original topic.

Bladelord
15-09-2012, 21:11
Honestly though, I think a lot of people have somewhat rose tinted glasses on when it comes to the older White Dwarfs. I had a couple of real old ones, and their content wasn't all that much bigger or better than the newer ones. I think the only difference was some content for Specialist Games and the scenery building articles didn't require GW products.

I have no WDs older than nr 130 or suchlike, but most of the pre-Giant issue WDs are certainly good enough to reread, and it is not nostalgia that make the painting, terrain, conversion and often also background articles as useful as when the magazines first were released. With this limited issue span of mine, I think the issues around Eye of Terror and Storm of Chaos were the best ones.

williamsond
15-09-2012, 22:29
I still remember the old space hulk ones with the cut out floor plans that you had to glue to thick card, or the paper blue prints for making warhammer scenery. Honestly if we can get pack to the way the mag was in the early 90s I would be happy to pay the price increase.

viv714r
16-09-2012, 01:04
From GW Dublins Facebook page.

Write your own Battle Report- Play a 50 point game (or 250 pt. game of LOTR) and write up a battle report, the best ones will get put up on the Facebook page.

Hobby Showcase, show off your favorite painted models in the cabinets and on the Facebook page.


Right this is just wild speculation from an event for the 22nd in my nearest store but perhaps it is a teaser from GW concerning more hobbiests in WD. I remember an issue where they had two tournament winners battling, stuff like that I suppose.

zoggin-eck
16-09-2012, 01:20
I remember an issue where they had two tournament winners battling, stuff like that I suppose.

Stuff like that is awesome, with intros from the players and studio photographs. Just dragging stuff from facebook, flickr etc. as speculated by some would be disappointing.

Daniel36
16-09-2012, 08:55
I have no WDs older than nr 130 or suchlike, but most of the pre-Giant issue WDs are certainly good enough to reread, and it is not nostalgia that make the painting, terrain, conversion and often also background articles as useful as when the magazines first were released. With this limited issue span of mine, I think the issues around Eye of Terror and Storm of Chaos were the best ones.

Oh no, I agree there have been some very good articles. But I also noticed something else, and that is personal but I am guessing that others are affected by it too. I noticed that I flicked through newer White Dwarfs reaheally quickly and decided they were crap, but then when I was forced to read one again (like when I had to travel a fair distance and had nothing else to bring), there were actually some pretty good articles in there. So okay, maybe the glasses aren't rose tinted when dealing with the older magazines, but they are definitely darker tinted when dealing with the newer ones.

But, all in all, yes, I wholeheartedly agree the older ones are better than the newer ones. However, I do not feel the difference is as big as night and day as some may feel they are. Again though, entirely personal.

EmperorNorton
16-09-2012, 09:38
I recently threw out my collection of White Dwarfs, because they were just taking up space. Before that, though, I went through them all and cut out the articles I thought were worth saving.
Out of about 70 issues from 2004 to 2011 I saved maybe 100 pages, 95% of which were painting articles like the 'eavy Metal Masterclass.
I did have a few issues from the late 90ies as well, but I don't think I saved anything from those, as they were simply completely outdated. Yes, they did appear to have a wider scope and probably were interesting at the time, just not to me a decade and a half later.

One problem with White Dwarf is that the content will necessarily repeat itself sooner or later. While going through the magazines I saw the different armies for Warhammer Fantasy and their background presented three times. It's an interesting thing to read about for a person just beginning to play, because it can help in picking out what you like. It's really not interesting to read a second time. I don't know how many articles I saw that explained drybrushing. Again, it's interesting to find out about, but not more than once.
That leads me to believe that a monthly magazine is not the optimal format for White Dwarf.

Daniel36
16-09-2012, 10:15
Seems you and I do a lot of the same things, and share the same thoughts as well.
You mention a monthly magazine not being the optimal format. I started writing a letter to Jervis Johnson a couple of days ago where I suggested a quarterly magazine. Now, with the WD overhaul turning from rumour to fact, I am not sure the letter is still worthwhile finishing, as I want to see what happens to the new WD first, but yeah... Quarterly will be better. Especially if you consider the fact that they hardly release something new every month.

Autumn Leaves
16-09-2012, 10:25
A quarterly with loads of pictures of new stuff and QUALITY battle reports with heaps of pictures would be very cool.
My big fear is that WD will continue as it has been for far too long, as an advertising rag rather than a magazine.
I haven't paid money for a copy for years because it fell below the standards i expect from a periodical to conjure forth money from my wallet so I read other peoples.
Is the big re-vamp for the WD going to be a good thing or a more of the same situation...?
I fear it may be something less.
I am looking forward to new LotR material, especially the new toys and the new toiys for the Hobbit.
But the WD re-vamp...

Will it be 'FinePrint'?
With holes in the text, and bits that fall off or go bendy in the sun?

lbecks
16-09-2012, 10:36
I'm fine with WD being monthly. I wish No Quarter was monthly. Every month WD comes out I think "they could have done this, this, and that and it would have been better." The moment I think "They did everything they could have done in 40 pages", then they need to do a quarterly magazine. Magazines are media that are of their time and I would imagine most publishers would expect you to consume the magazine for a short time and then throw it away. Though I do have all my WD's from issue 214 on. The only other magazine that I have back issues of is Saveur. Magazines that have recipes I guess are keepers. Though WD not having any EM Masterclass for the last two years has been a big letdown.

Mastodon
16-09-2012, 11:28
From GW Dublins Facebook page.

Right this is just wild speculation from an event for the 22nd in my nearest store but perhaps it is a teaser from GW concerning more hobbiests in WD. I remember an issue where they had two tournament winners battling, stuff like that I suppose.


Lmao its stuff like this that makes me love this forum. You're reading far too much into an event from a store, it has nothing do to with WD, they're just trying to get more people to participate and view their facebook page.

Wintermute
16-09-2012, 12:09
My big fear is that WD will continue as it has been for far too long, as an advertising rag rather than a magazine.

WD's primary role is to advertise GW products, and nothing else. This has been it's role since the company began to sell only products it produced. For a long period the words 'Games Workshops Monthly Gaming Supplement and Catalogue' (or similar) was in small print on the front page. I believe WD will not change from fulfilling this role at all, but how it fulfill this role is what will/may change with the revamp.

Zenithfleet
16-09-2012, 13:05
I recently threw out my collection of White Dwarfs, because they were just taking up space. Before that, though, I went through them all and cut out the articles I thought were worth saving.
Out of about 70 issues from 2004 to 2011 I saved maybe 100 pages, 95% of which were painting articles like the 'eavy Metal Masterclass.
I did have a few issues from the late 90ies as well, but I don't think I saved anything from those, as they were simply completely outdated. Yes, they did appear to have a wider scope and probably were interesting at the time, just not to me a decade and a half later.

I've actually had the opposite experience. Because I've recently started some game systems I've never tried before (Epic 40K, Battlefleet Gothic) and returned to old ones I used to play (40K 2nd edition), my old White Dwarfs have turned out to be an absolute treasure trove. I was always going back to them for modelling ideas and background info, but now all the old Epic and BFG articles I read with mild interest at the time have become extremely useful. "Whoa, here's an eleventh BFG scenario! And an article on linking Epic and BFG planetary assault scenarios in a campaign! And..." I even found one that corrected a big print error in my early-run BFG rulebook. I had the same experience when I tried out LotR a few years ago. Suddenly all those 'annoying filler' articles in dozens of back issues became fascinating.


That leads me to believe that a monthly magazine is not the optimal format for White Dwarf.

Don't forget the target market, though. There's no way I'd have had the patience to wait for a quarterly magazine when I was fourteen. Four weeks between issues was agonising enough...

Daniel36
16-09-2012, 13:36
Are 14-year-olds the target market though? Or, if they are, is GW correct in choosing them as a target market?
Warhammer is played in areas other than English speaking ones. The people there who buy WDs are not 14 years old. The people here discussing this overhaul are quite certainly not 14 years old.

Has GW chosen the wrong target? I certainly think so. I, a 30 year old geezer, am dying for a quality wargames magazine. They don't sell quality wargames magazines here.

Spiney Norman
16-09-2012, 14:39
The new cover price will be £5.50 as of the September issue with a new editorial team
Got this confirmed by the owner of the local Indy stockist yesterday, the magazine is increasing from 120 pages to 160 pages and they are adding £1 to the cover price.

Any idea how is will affect Direct Debit subscribers? I currently pay £9 a quarter on my WD DD (so effectively £3 an issue), can they just randomly increase that without telling me, or should they write to me for authorisation to alter the direct debit etc, or will they just cancel every subscription and require everyone to re-subscribe at the new price?

It seems bit random that they're going to roll out a new cover price with no prior notice to anyone except the sellers of the magazine, presumably they must have a reasonable number of readers who subscribe by dice debit.

Regarding the debate of regularity of the magazine, currently GW use WD as their way of officially announcing new releases, if they want to continue that they either have to alter their release schedule, or keep it monthly, They're not going to want to tell us about 2months worth of releases in one magazine because it would drastically lengthen the amount of time we know about a release before it is released (for example in a bi-monthly format we'd know about any April releases at the start of march when the magazine came out).

simonr1978
16-09-2012, 14:53
If it's a Direct Debit then they have to write to you in advance (IIRC it's at least 14 days in advance, but I'm not 100% certain on that part). They cannot under the Direct Debit guarantee increase the amount without informing you first.

Edit: According to this it's usually 10 working days or "As otherwise agreed." http://www.thesmartwaytopay.co.uk/directdebitexplained/pages/directdebitguarantee.aspx

EmperorNorton
16-09-2012, 15:04
Has GW chosen the wrong target? I certainly think so. I, a 30 year old geezer, am dying for a quality wargames magazine. They don't sell quality wargames magazines here.
We have a (fairly) new wargames magazine in Germany called Tabletop Insider.
It has two great advantages: It's independent, convering all kinds of games, and it has a cover price of 5€, which I think is the perfect price point for a magazine like that.
It's published quarterly (at least if they manage to put it out on time) and there usually are some interesting articles in there, although with such a broad scope it obviously is impossible to please everybody.
The problem I have with it is that they devote at least a quarter of each magazine to presenting "new releases", which can be a few months old at the time it comes out. Not very interesting to me, because I follow new releases on the internet on a daily basis.
I guess the problem is that magazines in general are not really for me. I want thorough and insightful content that has lasting value. Is that even possible in a monthly publication?

Daniel36
16-09-2012, 15:41
I guess the problem is that magazines in general are not really for me. I want thorough and insightful content that has lasting value. Is that even possible in a monthly publication?

Yes, it is!

Honestly, Warhammer has so much going for it when it comes to releasing new info.

You know, all they ever did was release different types of scenarios. I think the Tome of Battle article was the first time I saw WD offer new magic items.
You know what bothered me the most about 8th edition? The inclusion of only a couple of "arcane architecture" buildings and such. And call me silly, but I find it highly unfluffy to suddenly run into Khemrian Quicksand next to a Dark Elf tower while battling somewhere in Talabecland.

What they could've, nay should've done all along was release an article full of THEMED arcane architecture entries and other interesting scenery elements every time a new army was released. It's like they don't WANT to sell their scenery, because honestly, they could've attached at least two scenery building articles with such a feature.

And that's just one tiny thing I personally would've put into a magazine if it was me releasing it. I think I've already spouted ten cool features across a couple of threads here that they could've included.

MiyamatoMusashi
16-09-2012, 15:48
I want thorough and insightful content that has lasting value. Is that even possible in a monthly publication?

Yes.

I painted Teclis a couple of months back, using the Masterclass they printed years and years ago. That's lasting value. "How to drybrush" may not be (though it's unavoidable), and stuff about new releases certainly isn't (which is why issues like the last are so frustrating as there was almost nothing in it apart from Dark Vengeance), but masterclass painting guides, tactics, stuff like that... yes, that's lasting.

Whether or not you couldn't also get thorough and insightful content on the internet, for free... well, of course, you could, so between that and GW's RSS feed announcing releases, there isn't a need for a paid-for monthly magazine from GW. But I'd personally still want one, if it were worthwhile.

(Anyway, go too far down this path and it gets more philosophical about society as a whole. Apart from physical goods, there's no real need to pay for anything any more... not sure how society is going to change as a result, laws certainly need to change; but this is another discussion entirely.)

Daniel36
16-09-2012, 15:57
Without continuing the philosophical part, I will quickly say that there indeed is no need for a mag, but...
As you say, there is an RSS feed announcing releases, so there is no need for advertising in said magazine, at least not in the common sense of the word.
As has been pointed out, even a battle report is advertizing in a sense, and it is exactly that kind of thing that WD needs to do instead of the traditional ads, as internet caters to that just fine. I don't need a magazine with fun and interesting articles in it, but I definitely want one. As it stands, White Dwarf has been that for only less than 10% of the content.

Spiney Norman
16-09-2012, 16:04
The thing I'd like to see more of is painting guides, virtually all I know about painting minis has come through WD painting guides, and very often when I get a new model that I haven't painted before I will dig out an old issue and look up techniques and colour schemes. The more recent "3box" painting guides that featured in the WDs following the paints launch were so hugely inadequate they were basically base coat with this, wash with this, highlight with this done, omitting to mention that if you followed those rather vague instructions to the letter you would not end up with anything remotely near the photo on the mag.

I would love a return to the proper master-class painting articles, I learned so much from them over the years.

The bearded one
16-09-2012, 18:16
I was talking about this in my local GW recently, and I believe our local veteran said that at a recent games-day they already told some stuff about it, as it was going to be revealed within the week on the blog anyway. IIRC they recognised the problem and indeed wanted to change from being a ad catalogue to a useful magazine, but perhaps someone else knows more about this?

shelfunit.
16-09-2012, 19:25
...IIRC they recognised the problem and indeed wanted to change from being a ad catalogue to a useful magazine, ...

Surely they could have done this by simply adding more content to the current magazine? It's not like they have no control over what goes into the thing is it?

Sophet Drahas
16-09-2012, 20:10
I'm hoping that we get something akin to the current WD and Rackham's Cry Havoc magazine. While it was short lived and bi-monthly/quarterly it had some amazing painting and scenery articles. The old WD's were the same, good articles on scenery, painting, sculpting and converting. I want a mag I can go back and pull out for reference on a project I'm working on or for inspiration. Right now I can get the same pics off the box of whatever I bought.

The bearded one
16-09-2012, 20:29
Surely they could have done this by simply adding more content to the current magazine? It's not like they have no control over what goes into the thing is it?

keep in mind I'm paraphrasing a memory of someone else paraphrasing the internetreport of a GW guy blurting out some stuff (paraphrasing) about WD at a recent games day, before it is "officially" made known.

It's not an exact science.

Von Wibble
16-09-2012, 20:30
Got this confirmed by the owner of the local Indy stockist yesterday, the magazine is increasing from 120 pages to 160 pages and they are adding £1 to the cover price.

Any idea how is will affect Direct Debit subscribers? I currently pay £9 a quarter on my WD DD (so effectively £3 an issue), can they just randomly increase that without telling me, or should they write to me for authorisation to alter the direct debit etc, or will they just cancel every subscription and require everyone to re-subscribe at the new price?



I was told today in a GW store that the price would not change for subscribers (though he might have meant it will now be the same as the old price for non subscribers, not sure there), and more importantly imo, subscribers wll get their copies at the same time as peolpe who go to the shop. I was also told the same as you mention in the first sentence of your post. Bad news is that I was told there would be loads of pictures - hopefully not just several pictures of new releases a la fliers issue.

Given my disposable income with a reasonable job, I don't mind a price increase - what I do want to see is battle reports with proper plan view maps and turns told from a players perspective, like when I started reading WD (the days of Robin Dews and then Jake Thornton as editor). I'd also like to see more armies not done by the studio to get different ideas, and tactics articles that don't simply regurgitate the rules for a unit without applying them to a battlefield role.

Baneboss
17-09-2012, 14:30
So far White Dwarf daily seems like an White Advertisment daily. Nothing changed so far on the internet so i doubt itll be the same for the magazine.