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Sithlord
30-08-2012, 15:44
Well, I've seen someone write a small interview with phil kelly on gamesday asking about the new starter (dark vengeance, well... it's proven anyway) and the other would be a whining when a dark eldar facing a 2+ saves can only be done by either dark lance or disintegrator and when in CC they got bummer as no weapons (except demiklaives) could take down any terminator armor now, and phil kelly rebuke him with 'why not use huskblade?' and thinking for a second or something, he finally said there will be new FAQ.
Of course that's one, but there is other interview when they said that current FAQ only address the psychic power in general (in my opinion, even this is not covered all of them) and couple of issue arise in your usual cache of games but this only because he feels that the community need to 'feel' how's the 6th edition play right now, and from that all players can input what's missing from their armies and will be address in new FAQ.
The last interview, I forgot which GW rulesmaker being interviewed (definitely not robby crudace that's for sure :p ), said the new FAQ will be on september....

have a thought to back this up guys... though I know, it will be proven in next 2 days :p

Gingerwerewolf
30-08-2012, 16:12
I read the same Articles and am desperately hoping for them too. I recon that they will release them the same day as the new boxed set (complete guess not a rumor).

Roll on full FAQs!

Sgt John Keel
30-08-2012, 16:21
I dearly hope for new FAQs too, and I imagine it would have been mentioned elsewhere, but there are quite a few unit champions that can take power axes in the DE Codex.

Pyriel
30-08-2012, 18:51
i am scared of what FAQs will bring to my army.

first Templars FAQ:
-they took out our only option to play cc(no more old smokes rules=cant deliver CC troops to the front anymore by anything other than a land raider; but land raiders are not MSU, hence they suck. i've been playing this game for 3 editions, land raiders have always sucked for tournament play)
-they gave us TONS of shooting options, forcing us to play a playstyle we hate

second FAQ (the first one about 6th):
-they make the mandatory choice Champion's mandatory weapon ap3 AND force him by ruling to always accept/participate in challenges.ofcourse, the opponent KNOWS this, he will throw his 2+ save/powerfist wielding character, we get forced to accept the challenge, and gets the easy kill. so we play with...-90 pts per game. nice.
-they force us to take a second independent character per game by the FAQ ruling. like ICs matter...nice... more points sink!
-they make it illegal for us to use drop pods in any unit due to a lame typo they dont bother to fix.
-they nerf accept any challenge vow. fortunately, nobody used it anymore, since we had been forced by previous FAQ to become a shooty gunline army, not a cc army, and abhor the witch was cheaper.

i fear for what this new FAQ will bring. like... OK, drop pods became illegal with the latest FAQ, now Rhinos will be illegal too!

Marshal
30-08-2012, 19:50
i am scared of what FAQs will bring to my army.

first Templars FAQ:
-they took out our only option to play cc(no more old smokes rules=cant deliver CC troops to the front anymore by anything other than a land raider; but land raiders are not MSU, hence they suck. i've been playing this game for 3 editions, land raiders have always sucked for tournament play)
-they gave us TONS of shooting options, forcing us to play a playstyle we hate

second FAQ (the first one about 6th):
-they make the mandatory choice Champion's mandatory weapon ap3 AND force him by ruling to always accept/participate in challenges.ofcourse, the opponent KNOWS this, he will throw his 2+ save/powerfist wielding character, we get forced to accept the challenge, and gets the easy kill. so we play with...-90 pts per game. nice.
-they force us to take a second independent character per game by the FAQ ruling. like ICs matter...nice... more points sink!
-they make it illegal for us to use drop pods in any unit due to a lame typo they dont bother to fix.
-they nerf accept any challenge vow. fortunately, nobody used it anymore, since we had been forced by previous FAQ to become a shooty gunline army, not a cc army, and abhor the witch was cheaper.

i fear for what this new FAQ will bring. like... OK, drop pods became illegal with the latest FAQ, now Rhinos will be illegal too!

No offense, but all I can think of when I read this is: bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch... If you don't like the play style of the army, play a different one. This is right, the emperor's champion might only be AP3 in combat with his sword, but then again, so are a whole slew of other characters as well. The FAQ's changed more than just the Templars. Abaddon is only AP3 in combat, Asdrubael Vect is only AP3 in combat. These two are close combat monsters and if the lack of AP2 doesn't seem to even factor on the radar, then why should it for our champ? The FAQ brought about it a bunch of changes, some useless, some not so much. Grimnar now has lost his option of close combat weapons due to the change in Frost Axes suffering the same penalties as Power Fists without any benefit over them.

I for one welcome the new FAQ's, specially for templars, IF they do this massive update for all armies that they say they're going to do. They've brought them up to standards for some aspects (drop pod assault) but we're still far behind in others. I only hope it goes far enough. I'm tired of paying 4 points a model more than Space Wolves to get similar but still less gear and Rhinos that are about 42% more expensive than everyone else. I know that the days of furious charging termies are almost at an end, along with cheap cyclones and cheap typhoons, but take the good with the bad.

Pyriel
30-08-2012, 19:59
No offense, but all I can think of when I read this is: bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch... If you don't like the play style of the army, play a different one. This is right, the emperor's champion might only be AP3 in combat with his sword, but then again, so are a whole slew of other characters as well. The FAQ's changed more than just the Templars. Abaddon is only AP3 in combat, Asdrubael Vect is only AP3 in combat. These two are close combat monsters and if the lack of AP2 doesn't seem to even factor on the radar, then why should it for our champ? The FAQ brought about it a bunch of changes, some useless, some not so much. Grimnar now has lost his option of close combat weapons due to the change in Frost Axes suffering the same penalties as Power Fists without any benefit over them.

I for one welcome the new FAQ's, specially for templars, IF they do this massive update for all armies that they say they're going to do. They've brought them up to standards for some aspects (drop pod assault) but we're still far behind in others. I only hope it goes far enough. I'm tired of paying 4 points a model more than Space Wolves to get similar but still less gear and Rhinos that are about 42% more expensive than everyone else. I know that the days of furious charging termies are almost at an end, along with cheap cyclones and cheap typhoons, but take the good with the bad.

realy?...
Drop Pods CANNOT BE USED now. they are illegal. GW forgot that the removed part of drop pod assault was the ONLY part that specified which units can take pods. look it up.currently, it is illegal to take a drop pod for a crusader squad, per se. i know this is a "rules as written and not as intended" issue, but i play 40k as a hardcore competitive game, not as a fluff/beers and pretzels game. so no, my group will not (and should not) let me use pods until the typo is fixed. in competition, rules are rules, even unfair ones.

abaddon/vect are ap3... thats why they are NOT USED by top tournament lists, and top tournament lists are whats important.guess what-we're stuck with the champion, he's mandatory, unlike the other two fails you mentioned. and at least they are not forced to challenge/accept.

when i play a game, i assume me and my opponent will try to have a superserious competitive game when we stretch the game and its rules to the limits to win. the BT FAQs force me to keep playing 5-man lasplas with predators etc if i want to win(and why play, if not to win tourneys?) i feel stupid for representing this codex in local tournaments-even when i win i know that it wasnt a true hardcore player,so it has less worth, and i'd never dare go to NOVA or Adepticon with the codex.

Mr Brown
30-08-2012, 20:08
A little off topic but Logan's axe hasn't lost it's versatility. The FAQ stated that there are now Frost Blades and Frost Axes; Logan's axe can function as either a Frost Blade or Power Fist.
Not seeing a problem here as it doesn't clash with any other rule.

Agree with the sentiment of what was said though, play something you enjoy. If your codex isn't working for you, use another and 'counts as'. Locally finding this seems to be the case with a lot of the Chaos Marine players.

Theocracity
30-08-2012, 20:11
That sounds like a personal problem.

If you seriously play only as a hardcore tournament player, why do you play BT? If they're as bad as you say, and you only care about competetiveness, then why even bother with them until they are updated?

It sounds like you're holding on to the idea that the game should play the way you want it to, not the way it actually is. That doesn't sound like a competetive mentality. If you want to play BT because you like their style, that's fine - but then stop freaking out about their competetiveness. They'll get their turn, and complaining about it on a forum isn't going to speed things up.

Pyriel
30-08-2012, 20:17
not exactly. i come from playing a specific other game(i wont mention the name cause thats advertising :P) where the fluff/novels were based on tournament results-like, if your faction won a tournament, something good happened in the fluff. so, i am used to thinking like "if you dont represent your faction in tournaments, you're hurting it."

imagine a situation where, at the end of a novel, grimaldus and Vect are dueling, and the company says "who's gonna win? tournament X, winner's choice!" (hence BT and DE rush to win the event and say 'our guy wins the duel' ) thats the situation i am used at. :P

Aryllon
30-08-2012, 20:27
...top tournament lists are whats important...
...(and why play, if not to win tourneys?)...

Uh...

Nothing wrong with tournaments at all, but this scene is essentially a hobby subculture in terms of a % of the overall market. Even here in Warseer hardcore-enthusiast-land the balance is probably weighted between 60/40 and 70/30 toward people who're only aware of it as a side-show. I'm not trying to belittle competitions, not at all, just emphasising that for the significant majority it's not relevant.

But of course, tourney environments are where the game rules are stretched and pushed to the limit, allowing developers an opportunity see things from a different perspective and to refine the playing experience so that the rest of us benefit. So in that sense, tournaments are important to all of us even though we're not aware of it (although some changes which benefit the masses might in turn be the exact opposite of what tournies want!).

Seriously have no probs with people enjoying competitive gaming, but pitching it as the most important aspect of the hobby sounds a teeeeensy bit... 'enthusiastic'.

Still Standing
30-08-2012, 20:28
not exactly. i come from playing a specific other game(i wont mention the name cause thats advertising :P) where the fluff/novels were based on tournament results-like, if your faction won a tournament, something good happened in the fluff. so, i am used to thinking like "if you dont represent your faction in tournaments, you're hurting it."

imagine a situation where, at the end of a novel, grimaldus and Vect are dueling, and the company says "who's gonna win? tournament X, winner's choice!" (hence BT and DE rush to win the event and say 'our guy wins the duel' ) thats the situation i am used at. :P

I'm used to the situation where beautiful naked Russian girls throw themselves at me, but it doesn't mean that's what happens in 40k!

Theocracity
30-08-2012, 20:31
Ah, okay. I apologize for snapping then. That sounds like a kind of fun set up, actually. But my point was that it's not very compatible with the 'hardcore tournament' mentality, at least in 40K.

BT will get their update eventually. They still have a strong theme that will likely carry over when they do. Until then, it's best to relax a bit when playing games with them, and do what you like regardless of how challenging a match is. Not every game has to be played for all the marbles.

bad dice
30-08-2012, 20:34
i am scared of what FAQs will bring to my army.

first Templars FAQ:
-they took out our only option to play cc(no more old smokes rules=cant deliver CC troops to the front anymore by anything other than a land raider; but land raiders are not MSU, hence they suck. i've been playing this game for 3 editions, land raiders have always sucked for tournament play)
-they gave us TONS of shooting options, forcing us to play a playstyle we hate

second FAQ (the first one about 6th):
-they make the mandatory choice Champion's mandatory weapon ap3 AND force him by ruling to always accept/participate in challenges.ofcourse, the opponent KNOWS this, he will throw his 2+ save/powerfist wielding character, we get forced to accept the challenge, and gets the easy kill. so we play with...-90 pts per game. nice.
-they force us to take a second independent character per game by the FAQ ruling. like ICs matter...nice... more points sink!
-they make it illegal for us to use drop pods in any unit due to a lame typo they dont bother to fix.
-they nerf accept any challenge vow. fortunately, nobody used it anymore, since we had been forced by previous FAQ to become a shooty gunline army, not a cc army, and abhor the witch was cheaper.

i fear for what this new FAQ will bring. like... OK, drop pods became illegal with the latest FAQ, now Rhinos will be illegal too!


God damit it must be hard when gw come to you how and forces you to play a certain way
What are they dooing threathening to shoot your first born son or something(hmm on second tough they would properly sacrifice him to KHORNE but what ever)

Seriously tough you should lighting up a bit. Look at your first point:

no more old smokes rules=cant deliver CC troops to the front anymore by anything other than a land raider; but land raiders are not MSU hence they suck. i've been playing this game for 3 editions, land raiders have always sucked for tournament play

So your forced to use the same rules as every one else. How unfair.
And i don't know about land raiders sucking tough in 5th vehicles where pretty hard and raiders more so.

Your just summing up the most negative parts that you can come up whit killing your own fun.
I mean those faq brought good things to like 3+ save shields

True Black Templars is not realy running for power codex of the year. But beeing frustrated whit that is not hurting GW in the slightest. It's just hurting you, they don't even know what you think, and even if they did they probably wouldn't care.

Black Templars is behind them for now. As it should be if they kept lingering on old codexs nothing would ever get done.

EDIT:
Wow I just read your other post. I take it back your so hardcore your probably have a center of mass made of diamond (see what Idid there:evilgrin: ) So I think my more casual point of view is wasted on you. Word of experience from me to you tough. While it can be fun to bee balls to the walls hardcore in the end if you can't drop it and move on it kills all the fun you have whit the game.

IcedCrow
30-08-2012, 20:41
I love how on the internet AP3 power weapons are useless, because we all know that every army we face is 100% terminators in 2+ armor.

Oh wait...

Pyriel
30-08-2012, 20:52
its not about being weak. its about me being told BTs are a cc chapter, and when i play them, i get forced to be one of the weakest forces in cc, and one of the strongest in shooting. why didnt i choose Tau? :P

Tau, in all seriousness, can at least function OK:
you spam crisis suits, you keep them cheap to MSU, and you're fine. 15 x crisis suits per armylist.

you choose to play Tau to shoot, and you DO shoot.

with BT, its different:
you cant use landraiders because, well, the way to play 40k is multiple small units and landraiders prevent that.
in 4th ed, rhinos were great to transport cc units. 1st round, 12" forward, pop oldschool smokes for glance-only. then they went forward. you're there.
in 5th and 6th, they werent viable options to go for cc.
if GW want landraiders to be the cc option, good luck with that. no 300-pt unit will be effective. it just ruins cc.

assault squads...why would i pay so many points for a unit with no powerweapons?(true for all dexes)
many ICs... this sucks. it doesnt help you play MSU.

so, we have what cc options again?... one. th/ss, and because they need a landraider, we can only use them as bubblewrap OR use the landraider and lose the game.

i chose BT for the cc. i'm not seeing any cc options for competitive play. even worse, our troops unit is so bad for cc(cc=mass powerweapons/special rules like rending, we have none of that) and so great for shooting(shooting=heavy/special weapons instead of boltguns, and we can have 2 per 5 men). it just doesnt make sense.

Sexiest_hero
30-08-2012, 20:56
They are if you face pallies or deathwing!

Pyriel
30-08-2012, 21:04
...pallies suck, but anyways :P
(truly scary list: 5 x strikesquad w/psycannon +razorback w/ assault cannon, repeat x6, and 3 x psyriflemen. like 42 str 6(7 with psybolt) rending shots per turn, most twinlinked, all on the move, and 12 twinlinked str 8 shots... 15 units, 27 hullpoints. much better than raigowing, trust me. MSU approach is unbeatable, deathstars like paladins are sub-par, mostly capable of decimating fluff lists but not realy good against top lists)

bad dice
30-08-2012, 21:11
its not about being weak. its about me being told BTs are a cc chapter, and when i play them, i get forced to be one of the weakest forces in cc, and one of the strongest in shooting. why didnt i choose Tau? :P

Tau, in all seriousness, can at least function OK:
you spam crisis suits, you keep them cheap to MSU, and you're fine. 15 x crisis suits per armylist.

you choose to play Tau to shoot, and you DO shoot.

with BT, its different:
you cant use landraiders because, well, the way to play 40k is multiple small units and landraiders prevent that.
in 4th ed, rhinos were great to transport cc units. 1st round, 12" forward, pop oldschool smokes for glance-only. then they went forward. you're there.
in 5th and 6th, they werent viable options to go for cc.
if GW want landraiders to be the cc option, good luck with that. no 300-pt unit will be effective. it just ruins cc.

assault squads...why would i pay so many points for a unit with no powerweapons?(true for all dexes)
many ICs... this sucks. it doesnt help you play MSU.

so, we have what cc options again?... one. th/ss, and because they need a landraider, we can only use them as bubblewrap OR use the landraider and lose the game.

i chose BT for the cc. i'm not seeing any cc options for competitive play. even worse, our troops unit is so bad for cc(cc=mass powerweapons/special rules like rending, we have none of that) and so great for shooting(shooting=heavy/special weapons instead of boltguns, and we can have 2 per 5 men). it just doesnt make sense.

Dude you have one stong mind set rolling there.
I hope you have heard of the therm meta game some where before
And are a wear of the fact that that changes so things an't set in stone

I am also verry currius how you do MSU whit 15 crisis suits cause that a whole army and 5 units of 3 is SU for sure but i don't see the M coming in?

Also some of the best CC armies in the game are orks chaos and spacewolfs. Non of them use mass power weapons or special rules like rending. They all use a good stat line whit a whole bunch of attacks.

The only armie that had mass powerweapons and is good in assault is grey knights. So you should try that .
Oh no wait i heard they where also pretty good at shooting. God darn it.

bad dice
30-08-2012, 21:13
...pallies suck, but anyways :P
(truly scary list: 5 x strikesquad w/psycannon +razorback w/ assault cannon, repeat x6, and 3 x psyriflemen. like 42 str 6(7 with psybolt) rending shots per turn, most twinlinked, all on the move, and 12 twinlinked str 8 shots... 15 units, 27 hullpoints. much better than raigowing, trust me. MSU approach is unbeatable, deathstars like paladins are sub-par, mostly capable of decimating fluff lists but not realy good against top lists)

You should try a hench men list

Pyriel
30-08-2012, 21:19
not in 6th, i wont :P you need INFANTRY nowadays, lots of them. i cant see myself playing with less that 5 troops at 1750, 7-8 troops at 2k(6+allies). too many multiple-objective missions, more dificult to hide troops in transports...

The_Klobb_Maniac
30-08-2012, 21:35
I love how on the internet AP3 power weapons are useless, because we all know that every army we face is 100% terminators in 2+ armor.

Oh wait...

Even my guard army is in terminator armor. Every army I play is counts as 2+. Those Ork boyz? THey're manz. That CCS? Logan and his buddies. That autocannon? Obviously just a pair of guys wearing terminator armor carrying an assault cannon. Don't know where you've been..

Sexiest_hero
30-08-2012, 21:37
I mentioned palies as a 2+ save army, never said they were good :). and we all know msugrey knights is abroken mess. just like the book itself.

Fable
30-08-2012, 21:40
I think anyone who is expecting or hoping for any type of balance adjustment in upcoming FAQs is going to be greatly disappointed.

althathir
30-08-2012, 21:43
not exactly. i come from playing a specific other game(i wont mention the name cause thats advertising :P) where the fluff/novels were based on tournament results-like, if your faction won a tournament, something good happened in the fluff. so, i am used to thinking like "if you dont represent your faction in tournaments, you're hurting it."

imagine a situation where, at the end of a novel, grimaldus and Vect are dueling, and the company says "who's gonna win? tournament X, winner's choice!" (hence BT and DE rush to win the event and say 'our guy wins the duel' ) thats the situation i am used at. :P

L5R?

The reason I ask is because its a card game that has a similiar tournament prize (where the winners can influence the fluff) but it doesn't have a lot in common in with 40k. Most notably...
1) It doesn't just update one fraction at a time
2) Has many more ways to win
3) Has more structure than 40k ever will (terrain makes such a huge difference on the balance of the 40k and is far from uniform)
4) Much quicker to play (this is a big deal, Green Tide would be alot more popular without time limits)

Because 40k is more limited in alot of ways I don't think you can label yourself as a hardcore competitive player and stick with one army. Cause that isn't a competitive choice, you have to look at your army as equipment more than anything. The competition is between you and your opponent not BT vs. GK, and as long as GW keeps updating like they have been this will be case.

Personally I think you haven't accepted that fact that you aren't a solely a competitive player (which is why you dread another faq)

d6juggernaut
30-08-2012, 21:47
I think anyone who is expecting or hoping for any type of balance adjustment in upcoming FAQs is going to be greatly disappointed.

As depressing as it may be, this might be the reality of things. GW has had countless opportunities to make a more balanced game with every new FAQ, instead it's usually just clearing up a bunch of completely convoluted wording-related questions that aren't frequently asked by anyone on this earth. I expect this possible FAQ update to be no different, they're going to answer a few problems in the main rulebook(Fix that broken search light rule for the love of god), repeat themselves a whole lot in the individual army FAQs (if that happens at all), and call it a day. I wish I was wrong, because I don't like the sound of that.

Oh and there's going to balance changes for sure, they're going to nerf Tyranids some more, what's next, Shadow of the Warp affects own units?

Clarkson
30-08-2012, 22:25
How did a FAQ update rumour turn into someone bitching about how up their op army was in previous editions..

so your 90pt dude will die in CC, thats the roll of the die tbh.. or you could not waste 90pts on him and better use the points elsewhere?

You are lucky to get dp's to lose.. i only wish my armies had something that could turn up first turn, blast me to smithereens and then survive the return volley..

jeez get a life, winning tournees isn't everything, and from your attitude i doubt you win many anyway

On Topic.. I would lose to see what the FAQ's will add for chaos seeing as the new dex is out in a month or two... or if they wait till the rumoured double dex release at the end of sept

Clarkson
30-08-2012, 22:28
As depressing as it may be, this might be the reality of things. GW has had countless opportunities to make a more balanced game with every new FAQ, instead it's usually just clearing up a bunch of completely convoluted wording-related questions that aren't frequently asked by anyone on this earth. I expect this possible FAQ update to be no different, they're going to answer a few problems in the main rulebook(Fix that broken search light rule for the love of god), repeat themselves a whole lot in the individual army FAQs (if that happens at all), and call it a day. I wish I was wrong, because I don't like the sound of that.

Oh and there's going to balance changes for sure, they're going to nerf Tyranids some more, what's next, Shadow of the Warp affects own units?

nah they will change it to ignoring effects on a 6+, that will have to be rerolled if successful.

and swarm lord no longer will cause ID and will cost 100pts more

wait i better not say this.. they may update teh dex with these genius ideas

Rated_lexxx
30-08-2012, 22:34
I play DE and didn't even dawn on my on how few AP2 weapons we have. Thanks for making me sad :P

Theocracity
30-08-2012, 22:49
I think that's just a sign of how little it actually matters, beyond something to complain about on the Internet.

Cheeslord
30-08-2012, 23:27
realy?...
Drop Pods CANNOT BE USED now. they are illegal. GW forgot that the removed part of drop pod assault was the ONLY part that specified which units can take pods. look it up.currently, it is illegal to take a drop pod for a crusader squad, per se.

Gosh. thats bad even by GW standards. Its not like Templars have only been out for a month...



i know this is a "rules as written and not as intended" issue, but i play 40k as a hardcore competitive game, not as a fluff/beers and pretzels game. so no, my group will not (and should not) let me use pods until the typo is fixed. in competition, rules are rules, even unfair ones.


I'm probably not the first person to say this, but 40K is really not solid enough, rules and balance wise, to play in that fashion unless you accept that only a tiny fraction of the available units and tactics will be used, and you will get weird effects like units that explode on deployment, powers that have no effect at all and strange "tactics" that make the game highly abstract (also what do you do about genuinely ambiguous non-FAQed rules issues?). Still, each to his own and you (and many others) plainly feel that the experience is on the whole positive as you keep doing it.

Mark.

Gutlord Grom
31-08-2012, 00:08
realy?...
Drop Pods CANNOT BE USED now. they are illegal. GW forgot that the removed part of drop pod assault was the ONLY part that specified which units can take pods. look it up.currently, it is illegal to take a drop pod for a crusader squad, per se. i know this is a "rules as written and not as intended" issue, but i play 40k as a hardcore competitive game, not as a fluff/beers and pretzels game. so no, my group will not (and should not) let me use pods until the typo is fixed. in competition, rules are rules, even unfair ones.


That's abject lunacy. It takes RAW to such an extreme it does disservice to the term. I think the vast majority of players are going to continue to take drop pods with the units that could use them prior to the FAQ(since unless I'm mistaken, Drop Pods are listed as a dedicated transport in the Crusader Squad unit entry). As it looks like an abuse of rules-lawyering to clearly put an army at a disadvantage based on, as you said, a typo.

Grimtuff
31-08-2012, 00:16
How did a FAQ update rumour turn into someone bitching about how up their op army was in previous editions..

so your 90pt dude will die in CC, thats the roll of the die tbh.. or you could not waste 90pts on him and better use the points elsewhere?

I see you're posting in the tone of the individual in your avatar by doing little to no research before going on the attack. You might want to look at how the EC is a compulsary choice for BT's matey. *facepalm*

KingNova3000
31-08-2012, 00:16
i am scared of what FAQs will bring to my army.

first Templars FAQ:
-they took out our only option to play cc(no more old smokes rules=cant deliver CC troops to the front anymore by anything other than a land raider; but land raiders are not MSU, hence they suck. i've been playing this game for 3 editions, land raiders have always sucked for tournament play)
-they gave us TONS of shooting options, forcing us to play a playstyle we hate

second FAQ (the first one about 6th):
-they make the mandatory choice Champion's mandatory weapon ap3 AND force him by ruling to always accept/participate in challenges.ofcourse, the opponent KNOWS this, he will throw his 2+ save/powerfist wielding character, we get forced to accept the challenge, and gets the easy kill. so we play with...-90 pts per game. nice.
-they force us to take a second independent character per game by the FAQ ruling. like ICs matter...nice... more points sink!
-they make it illegal for us to use drop pods in any unit due to a lame typo they dont bother to fix.
-they nerf accept any challenge vow. fortunately, nobody used it anymore, since we had been forced by previous FAQ to become a shooty gunline army, not a cc army, and abhor the witch was cheaper.

i fear for what this new FAQ will bring. like... OK, drop pods became illegal with the latest FAQ, now Rhinos will be illegal too!

Lol if you cant archieve victory against a 2+ heavy army without depending on AP2, then your super hardcore gaming skills are as weak as water. I will point you to my signature.

TheDoctor
31-08-2012, 00:22
...pallies suck, but anyways :P
(truly scary list: 5 x strikesquad w/psycannon +razorback w/ assault cannon, repeat x6, and 3 x psyriflemen. like 42 str 6(7 with psybolt) rending shots per turn, most twinlinked, all on the move, and 12 twinlinked str 8 shots... 15 units, 27 hullpoints. much better than raigowing, trust me. MSU approach is unbeatable, deathstars like paladins are sub-par, mostly capable of decimating fluff lists but not realy good against top lists)

http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2012/08/16/video-battle-report-reecius-take-all-comers-marines-vs-jy2s-purifier-spam-grey-knights-1500pts/

lol, you really think MSU is unbeatable?

FashaTheDog
31-08-2012, 00:42
Of all the FAQs I want to see one specific one for Tyranids; what a flying Hive Tyrant in a unit of Tyrant Guard does regarding being shot at and assaulted if the Hive Tyrant swoops since right now that situation causes the game to divide by zero according to RAW. Past getting any kind of answer for that, even a "Tyrant may not swoop" one, I'll take the good, the bad, and the goofy changes in stride and just refer to Page 5 [of my Hordes rulebook] as to how to proceed with anything I don't like.

Draconis
31-08-2012, 01:01
its not about being weak. its about me being told BTs are a cc chapter, and when i play them, i get forced to be one of the weakest forces in cc, and one of the strongest in shooting. why didnt i choose Tau? :P

Tau, in all seriousness, can at least function OK:
you spam crisis suits, you keep them cheap to MSU, and you're fine. 15 x crisis suits per armylist.

you choose to play Tau to shoot, and you DO shoot.

with BT, its different:
you cant use landraiders because, well, the way to play 40k is multiple small units and landraiders prevent that.
in 4th ed, rhinos were great to transport cc units. 1st round, 12" forward, pop oldschool smokes for glance-only. then they went forward. you're there.
in 5th and 6th, they werent viable options to go for cc.
if GW want landraiders to be the cc option, good luck with that. no 300-pt unit will be effective. it just ruins cc.

assault squads...why would i pay so many points for a unit with no powerweapons?(true for all dexes)
many ICs... this sucks. it doesnt help you play MSU.

so, we have what cc options again?... one. th/ss, and because they need a landraider, we can only use them as bubblewrap OR use the landraider and lose the game.

i chose BT for the cc. i'm not seeing any cc options for competitive play. even worse, our troops unit is so bad for cc(cc=mass powerweapons/special rules like rending, we have none of that) and so great for shooting(shooting=heavy/special weapons instead of boltguns, and we can have 2 per 5 men). it just doesnt make sense.


you do that. take 15x crisis suits. then watch a BT missile spam list blow them out of the game by turn 3.

Clarkson
31-08-2012, 01:04
I see you're posting in the tone of the individual in your avatar by doing little to no research before going on the attack. You might want to look at how the EC is a compulsary choice for BT's matey. *facepalm*

Ofc i didnt look at that ****** codex.. i have enough troubles with tau, tyranids and chaos, to be worrying about what they HAVE to take.

but the point stands.. its a 90pt model.. not breaking the boundaries.. if it was a 200pt char.. then sure.. but 90pts is very little in the grand scheme of things

I'm stuck with mandatory FW's.. at least your guy can last in CC. and yes a pf can gimp him.. but he is better in CC than a fist.. and 2+ is a bitch.. but so what, everyone else has to deal with it.. sometime more expensive chars..

Venkh
31-08-2012, 01:13
With regards to black Templar troubles, just call them the black exemplars or something and use one of the many other marine books

I really hope they go a bit deeper with the faq's and promote a bit more internal balance at least
It really wouldn't be that tough to achieve

Sithlord
31-08-2012, 02:55
@all
nevertheless despite the whining and bitching about which one is AP2 or AP3 , we all KNOW that current FAQ still doesn't address lots of issue. Man... even IG battle psykers is not address if they are brotherhood of psyker or what psyker level they are, dude who plays them choose to play them as level 2 (he assume that because they bring 2 magics) and choose those powerful magic in the book.

@black templar lover
even if they did not address in the new FAQ, they are going updated next year (along with space marine, eldar, and tau)

@people who suggest to turn black templar to normal marines
what the heck? if they are equip with ccw and bolt pistol how do you count them? assault squad? they don't have jump packs? rhinos? They are not troops? blood angels? Man, they make black templar and play it as black templar for a reason, dammit

Draconis
31-08-2012, 06:24
Ofc i didnt look at that ****** codex.. i have enough troubles with tau, tyranids and chaos, to be worrying about what they HAVE to take.

but the point stands.. its a 90pt model.. not breaking the boundaries.. if it was a 200pt char.. then sure.. but 90pts is very little in the grand scheme of things

I'm stuck with mandatory FW's.. at least your guy can last in CC. and yes a pf can gimp him.. but he is better in CC than a fist.. and 2+ is a bitch.. but so what, everyone else has to deal with it.. sometime more expensive chars..

He could be playing nids, you know, forced to take at minimum a 100 point model like the Prime who can't even get in a pod like space marine characters can. Or take wings. Or anything else.

BrotherCaptainS
31-08-2012, 07:07
I love how on the internet AP3 power weapons are useless, because we all know that every army we face is 100% terminators in 2+ armor.

Oh wait...

LOL... you know I've played against Logan Wing 3 of my last 4 games. Freaking annoying, still tabled them all though. Mind you I only have 2 powerfists, 1 thunder hammer, 2 plasma and 2 ,elta for AP2 or better. Still manage to bring them all down somehow.

Weazel
31-08-2012, 07:20
Funny how people complain how hard it is to counter 2+ now. Well they are TERMINATORS in awesome armour (and they cost a ton of points for being single wound models (mostly)). If you pay the points it's nice to know not every chum with a cheap as bread powerweapon can take them down without breaking a sweat. It's one of the better changes in 6th since I can now actually field terminators which are my favorite models in the game overall. They are still T4 and pretty easy to drown in attacks, some of which are going to end up as failed saves.

Anyway, sorry for a slight offtopic.

Looking forward to them FAQs as well.

-Loki-
31-08-2012, 07:24
LOL... you know I've played against Logan Wing 3 of my last 4 games. Freaking annoying, still tabled them all though. Mind you I only have 2 powerfists, 1 thunder hammer, 2 plasma and 2 ,elta for AP2 or better. Still manage to bring them all down somehow.

You somehow take them down because AP2 isn't the only way to kill TEQs. Weight of fire is the best option, because it's the rest of your army. Force saves on them, they'll fail some. This method still works, and works just fine.

BrotherCaptainS
31-08-2012, 07:38
You somehow take them down because AP2 isn't the only way to kill TEQs. Weight of fire is the best option, because it's the rest of your army. Force saves on them, they'll fail some. This method still works, and works just fine.

Sarcasm doesn't work in text sorry. lol... My long fangs with 5 heavy bolters love playing against termies.

Chem-Dog
31-08-2012, 07:49
play 40k as a hardcore competitive game, not as a fluff/beers and pretzels game. so no, my group will not (and should not) let me use pods until the typo is fixed. in competition, rules are rules, even unfair ones.

I'm not one to tell people that they're doing it wrong, but seriously.....you're bitching because GW's mistake (fair enough) prevents your ultrastrict play style from allowing you to field a unit option.


I think GW's taken the right move by, what I see as, disentangling itself from the tournament scene. Tourneys will disregard anything they dislike anyway (like a lot are saying will happen to allies) and impose any number of additional limitations and rules (like Comp) so why not concentrate on making the game fun for those of us who like our beer and pretzels and leave Tourneys to construct the version of the game that works for them, based on that framework rather than waste time and effort trying to please them?



I'm used to the situation where beautiful naked Russian girls throw themselves at me, but it doesn't mean that's what happens in 40k!

Pics or it didn't happen....:shifty:

ehlijen
31-08-2012, 10:24
So what kind of changes do we expect from this new FAQ (if we expect it at all)?

They have already chose once not to use the chance to do a warhammer 8th faq style addressing of many glaring issues and went for a bare bones approach to merely prevent rules from contradicting each other. Have they really changed their mind on that?

Sithlord
31-08-2012, 12:00
So what kind of changes do we expect from this new FAQ (if we expect it at all)?

They have already chose once not to use the chance to do a warhammer 8th faq style addressing of many glaring issues and went for a bare bones approach to merely prevent rules from contradicting each other. Have they really changed their mind on that?

the chances we should expect for 6th... profile for many missing exotic CCW (okay... not all of those get the thing especially who live in imperium) , couple of adjustment to missing profile update or address such as IG battle psyker explanation, remember the first post, it seems huskblade DO will be to AP2... albeit this is reasonable, considering the cost of usual powerfist is 25pts which pretty much insta kill everyone while huskblade cost 35pts use normal strength/initiative (which usually tends to S3 only) cause instant death (they were meant to be character annihilator ) but can only do AP3 (most character like wearing 2+ armor saves dude, either in 5th or 6th).

Warhammer 8th edition... ummm... you are right on that one... only address issue on how the rules interact to each other. But considering that warhammer are not that sellsworth for GW (40k being number one products, they tend to focus on them now), and pretty much that new army books for 8th are totally nerf alot, so nerf, that they balance each other (to other 8th edition army books). When all army books updated, you will see the most balance armies of all wargaming system :p (seriously I tested my vampire counts against all 8th edition, orc, tomb king, empire and ogre kingdoms, overall 50/50 chances to win.. of course if you play against couple 7th edition army books particularly high elves and skaven... well... they are dead the 8th one that is)


You somehow take them down because AP2 isn't the only way to kill TEQs. Weight of fire is the best option, because it's the rest of your army. Force saves on them, they'll fail some. This method still works, and works just fine.

actually need to add this :p pretty much those people who play terminator armies (GK, DA and SW, well you know those initials mean :p ) they rely heavily on luck, they need to be very extremely lucky to win as even on failed save could cost like 6 IGs/5 darkeldars/4 taus/3marines

Yabyahoo
31-08-2012, 12:18
I just hope they fix the confusion on the CSM codex: Wings on a Daemon Prince.... In Germany and Spain, they're flying MC's. In England, they're Jump.... ;)

-Yab

MagicHat
31-08-2012, 12:37
Man... even IG battle psykers is not address if they are brotherhood of psyker or what psyker level they are, dude who plays them choose to play them as level 2 (he assume that because they bring 2 magics) and choose those powerful magic in the book.


They are not brotherhood of psykers because they have their own rules for using psychic powers.
Following the "Establishing Mastery Level" on page 66 in the BADAB, they are Mastery level 1.
And, seeing as only the primaris psyker is allowed to switch powers by the FAQ, they are stuck with their powers.
People can wish that it was otherwise, but the current rules for battle psykers are completely clear as far as I am concerned.

Commissar Davis
31-08-2012, 12:52
I will chime in that the BT FAQ is as rotten as an egg found in a sewer that has been there for several years... or a bankers bonus... take your pick. I know a couple of people that use them stop because they now need to totally redo their lists, and are not forking out over an FAQ when a new Codex can't be more than a year or two away (Two years would make the codex 10 years old).

I hope that the FAQs will put to rest a lot of debates out there, kind of like what they did with 8Ed.

The rules are kind of OK, but with old codices like BT, Eldar and Tau, there needs to be some attention to detail.

Sithlord
31-08-2012, 13:38
I will chime in that the BT FAQ is as rotten as an egg found in a sewer that has been there for several years... or a bankers bonus... take your pick. I know a couple of people that use them stop because they now need to totally redo their lists, and are not forking out over an FAQ when a new Codex can't be more than a year or two away (Two years would make the codex 10 years old).

I hope that the FAQs will put to rest a lot of debates out there, kind of like what they did with 8Ed.

The rules are kind of OK, but with old codices like BT, Eldar and Tau, there needs to be some attention to detail.

sir... commissar sir! all those codices you mention (including BT) will get updated next year :p

Polaria
31-08-2012, 13:52
realy?...
Drop Pods CANNOT BE USED now. they are illegal. GW forgot that the removed part of drop pod assault was the ONLY part that specified which units can take pods. look it up.currently, it is illegal to take a drop pod for a crusader squad, per se. i know this is a "rules as written and not as intended" issue, but i play 40k as a hardcore competitive game, not as a fluff/beers and pretzels game. so no, my group will not (and should not) let me use pods until the typo is fixed. in competition, rules are rules, even unfair ones.

You do know that 40K was never intended to be super-competitive rules-lawyering game and thus, it was never written in that way? I also fully expect that GW won't change that any time soon so basically you are fighting a losing battle. The more you rules-lawyer the more and more "broken" the game will seem. This is especially true in 6th edition where the whole basic rulebook is clearly written from RAI perspective.

Saim-Hann Lord
31-08-2012, 14:03
Wow...ok.

In terms of the AP2 stuff and taking out the Terms...I field an infantry only guard army with over 200 men equipped with lasguns and grenade launchers. The most powerful weapons I have are 6 lascannons, 9 autocannons and 24 mortars. I rely on sheer numbers for taking out the 2+ sv models and yeah, it can take a while and there are losses with the men. But more times than nought...I overcome the obstacle. So to defeat 2+ svs does not only mean AP2 must be fielded.

As for the FAQ, meh. I'm happy with my Guard army and how it works with the current rules. I just want confirmation on the CSM codex!!

andrewm9
31-08-2012, 15:31
Wow...ok.

In terms of the AP2 stuff and taking out the Terms...I field an infantry only guard army with over 200 men equipped with lasguns and grenade launchers. The most powerful weapons I have are 6 lascannons, 9 autocannons and 24 mortars. I rely on sheer numbers for taking out the 2+ sv models and yeah, it can take a while and there are losses with the men. But more times than nought...I overcome the obstacle. So to defeat 2+ svs does not only mean AP2 must be fielded.

As for the FAQ, meh. I'm happy with my Guard army and how it works with the current rules. I just want confirmation on the CSM codex!!

I know what you mean. I have no problem taking out terminators with the mighty lasgun. With orders, blob squads, and a smattering of plasma guns in there I can usually bring down a sqaud of terminators unless my opponent is insanely lucky. Granted I usually lose a plasma gun a turn of firing, but thats OK. There is little that is fleshy that the lasgun cannot bring down with a little support and a little intelligence.

Commissar Davis
31-08-2012, 16:49
sir... commissar sir! all those codices you mention (including BT) will get updated next year :p

I am sure I heard that said a year or two ago... :p

comradeda
31-08-2012, 18:27
Could someone post a link to the interview(s) in question?

Pyriel
31-08-2012, 21:28
I am sure I heard that said a year or two ago... :p

well said. heard it many, many times, in fact. yet here we are, 3 editions with the same dex.
and given that Chaos and DA are next, given that following that, a Xenos release(Eldar or Tau) is in order, and then vanilla marines(they always come first, GW cant leave their biggest sellers without a 6th ed codex) it is reasonable to believe BT will NOT be updated in 2013 either.

Omniassiah
31-08-2012, 23:01
sir... commissar sir! all those codices you mention (including BT) will get updated next year :p

Yeah, I have also heard the "we're speeding up codex releases" several times, once from Jervis, and we are still getting 2 a year maybe three.

semper_fi
31-08-2012, 23:06
Drop Pods CANNOT BE USED now. they are illegal. GW forgot that the removed part of drop pod assault was the ONLY part that specified which units can take pods. look it up.currently, it is illegal to take a drop pod for a crusader squad, per se. i know this is a "rules as written and not as intended" issue, but i play 40k as a hardcore competitive game, not as a fluff/beers and pretzels game. so no, my group will not (and should not) let me use pods until the typo is fixed. in competition, rules are rules, even unfair ones.

Soz but this made me almost be ashamed to be a hardcore player, there is such a thing as logic... go figure it out..........

bad dice
31-08-2012, 23:36
I don't know what ppls problems are whit
termies tough

even your basic unit of tactical marines will for the some point value stand a fair chance of takeing a sqaud of termies down.
It only becomes a problem when there are a lot of force multipliers in place.

look at it like this they both got 10 shots the marines have 10 wounds and a 2/3 change of saving. the termies have 5 wounds and a 5/6 chance of saveing meaning that it takes 30 wounds each to take em out on average. Temies might have the uper hand in combat but to get there the have to come whit rapid fire range and that is where the marine fire power doubles. Also for the same value the marines can have a heavy and a special weapon.

So it all comes down to correct use of you forces.

In fact I have only once lost to a all terminator army and that was only because time ran out on the tournament (he was slow as hell even whit a termielist)

And he had 1 killpoint more than me (2 razorbacks a dread and 2 units of marines) to his 3 units of termies a landraider and his librian)

In fact if the game had gone on i would have tabled him next turn.

Sithlord
01-09-2012, 01:19
Could someone post a link to the interview(s) in question?

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2012/07/dark-eldar-with-new-faq-on-way.html

this one for 1st statement

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2012/08/40k-faqs-are-coming.html

this one for 2nd statement

I forgot the 3rd statement link, but should be around (I only see rumors from this three site, belloflostsouls, warseers, and natfka)

Sithlord
02-09-2012, 11:03
okay... so I guess... I was wrong that new FAQ on september :p

ehlijen
02-09-2012, 12:15
okay... so I guess... I was wrong that new FAQ on september :p

Why? September only just started. Or am I missing something?

Balerion
02-09-2012, 13:19
Why? September only just started. Or am I missing something?
Some people were hopeful that it would be paired with the Dark Vengeance release.

Sithlord
02-09-2012, 15:32
Some people were hopeful that it would be paired with the Dark Vengeance release.

that's the idea... and the hope is crushed... thx a lot Games Workshops... looks like I will keep dreaming of huskblade being AP 2 all the time (in reality, most of my gaming, people bringing lots of terminator armor equivalent, not to mention GK, DA and SW termie armies... sure I can use my blaster/dark lance against , but they bring their stormshield dammit)

Theocracity
02-09-2012, 15:42
that's the idea... and the hope is crushed... thx a lot Games Workshops... looks like I will keep dreaming of huskblade being AP 2 all the time (in reality, most of my gaming, people bringing lots of terminator armor equivalent, not to mention GK, DA and SW termie armies... sure I can use my blaster/dark lance against , but they bring their stormshield dammit)

...so if they always bring a stormshield anyway, why would an AP2 huskblade be any more helpful? All that means is that you have a worse chance to wound and they can hit you back. Start bringing some disintegrators if you're really having problems with terminators.

Personally I wouldn't want the huskblade to be AP2. If they were going to change it with an FAQ, I'd prefer it be so that any character charges it up, not just ICs and MCs. That way you could make people think twice about using their sergeants to chump challenge. Preying on the weak to become strong is what DE are all about.

Venkh
02-09-2012, 17:13
Forget disintegrators, massed venom fire is the way to take down anything with its boots on the ground. DE have no trouble putting firepower on the table, its just a shame that most of the CC options got nerfed so hard.

I really wish theyd restore the excellent balance the dex had when it was released but im not holding my breath.

Sithlord
03-09-2012, 03:48
games workshop only care to sell models right? Just happen like vendetta units come to mind, that thing is really cheese rules. Makes most people buy them and use them in the game often (heck I've seen a lot of those 3 vendettas in most IG armies)

Gutlord Grom
03-09-2012, 04:38
games workshop only care to sell models right? Just happen like vendetta units come to mind, that thing is really cheese rules. Makes most people buy them and use them in the game often (heck I've seen a lot of those 3 vendettas in most IG armies)

It's not so much cheese rules so much as being really undercosted for what it does and a lack of good counters for it at the moment.

Sithlord
03-09-2012, 10:20
...so if they always bring a stormshield anyway, why would an AP2 huskblade be any more helpful? All that means is that you have a worse chance to wound and they can hit you back. Start bringing some disintegrators if you're really having problems with terminators.

Personally I wouldn't want the huskblade to be AP2. If they were going to change it with an FAQ, I'd prefer it be so that any character charges it up, not just ICs and MCs. That way you could make people think twice about using their sergeants to chump challenge. Preying on the weak to become strong is what DE are all about.

geez man, I'm talking about taking out a character.. that's the original use for huskblade anyway (only IG and eldar do not have option for 2+ saves). Most of this character will hide in walls of 2+ saves (usually with invulnerable saves), which is why, you will not have that many AP2 weapons to wear them down anyway.


It's not so much cheese rules so much as being really undercosted for what it does and a lack of good counters for it at the moment.

being undercosted itself are CHEESE dude :p

Sithlord
06-09-2012, 01:48
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2012/09/dark-angel-rumors-flyer-wave-and-new.html

owww.... according to this, new FAQ at the end of september...

d6juggernaut
06-09-2012, 14:21
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2012/09/dark-angel-rumors-flyer-wave-and-new.html

owww.... according to this, new FAQ at the end of september...

As long as it comes out within this century, and it actually addresses real problems, I'll be happy

The Clairvoyant
06-09-2012, 15:35
Just thought I'd chime in with this:
"Warhammer 40,000 FAQs are on the way - we'll post them up on the website as soon as the translators are finished with them. :)"
That was buried in the comments for a Whats New Today post on facebook on Monday. No time-scale or anything.

Caitsidhe
06-09-2012, 16:28
I'm looking forward to it, by in large due to the Snoopy Dance I'll get to do when a certain issue is put to bed.