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-Totenkopf-
03-09-2012, 17:58
Hi all, So I am a long time fantasy player and started playing Blood Angels about 6 months before 6th ed came out.. My problem is, I just don't enjoy playing them.. I have had one fun game.. The guys in my group are necrons, marines and orks... I'm not sure if I don't like the game, or if it's that I'm new or I just don't like marines.. Genetically modified future super-humans just don't do it for me.. I chose Blood angels based on models and the fact that they at least have a tragic flaw.. Anyways, I'm not giving up on 40k, I going to start a new army and hope that it's army play style thats been holding me back..

I am torn between Eldar and Tau.. No one seems to play them, and I have been told they are hard to master, which leads me to believe that they are more up my alley..
What can you guys tell me about these two? and what kind of models to start with to be somewhat competitive around 1000 - 1750 points...

Pentregarth
03-09-2012, 18:25
Both (especially tau) suffer from the fact that their codices are now two editions old, which makes some of their units overpriced or just plain useless due to special rules that no longer have any effect.
That being said, they also represent two completely different styles of play. Whereas Space Marines are basically the catch-all category of 40k (they do everything reasonably well, while not excelling in one area or the other), Tau are the most extreme example of a long ranged shooting army. Their basic infantry's weapon outranges those of the other races (and has a higher strength) and they are reasonably well armoured, but Tau pay for this by being the arguably worst melee fighters in the galaxy.
They have xenos allies that somewhat mitigate that, but are weak on the taking side themselves, so you kinda have to plan your army around the fact that the enemy will a) eventually get into close combat with you, b) you're terrible at it and c) what to do when the above happens. Their specialist troops are even better at shooting (usually by carrying better weapons, tau on a whole have a worse bs than space marines), but still suck at close combat.

The Eldar, on the other hand, are an army that has specialists for absolutely everything, but to compensate, their basic troops are fairly weak (not well armoured, generally low stats, very short ranged weapon). As said, they don't have generalist units, but instead can take aspect warrior squads that each specialise in one aspect of the battle, be it tank hunting, close combat or fire support. Eldar also generally favour mobility over armour, with all of their tanks being skimmers, fast and having medium to low armour.

So, Tau are a "stand and shoot" kind of army, while Eldar are more "precise strikes at the right time, then disengage" army (very generalising, of course).

In terms of beginner armies, Tau are probably cheaper, since nearly all of the Eldar aspect warriors are currently only available as finecast models (whether you like finecast or not, it is more expensive), whereas nearly the entire tau range is available in plastic (at least partly, some models combine metal/resin weapon options with a plastic base model)

Hope I could help, if you have any more questions, feel free to ask

WarBoss PuG
03-09-2012, 18:31
Both getting new dex's soon(ish) as rumoured so if your up for a wait I'm sure there will be lots more to options to choose from. Eldar I would say are the hardest to master. Not unplayable but takes a few games to find good tactics. Most players I know use guardian heavy lists. Tau are very shooty... Hang back an open fire tactics, use kroot as close combat troops. I would say play tau as easier to play. Good shooters so lots of big guns help, as I said both getting new codexs soon all may change! Hope it helps

-Totenkopf-
03-09-2012, 19:02
Thanks for the input.. It really helps.. I am not really sold on the tau minis.. I like their tanks but that is about it.. Both the necron players in my group take infantry heavy, stand and shoot style lists so I don't think I want to go that route as I prefer a more "precise strike" army..
So I have looked through the Eldar units and I like the looks of a lot of the models.. I know they have a new book on the horizon so this is bound to change but are there any units I should stay away from in the mean time?
I like the look of their mech, the HQ models, the harlequins and jesters look like fun to paint, I like the swooping hawks, rangers and pretty much all the models..

In contrast, how do Eldar compare to Dark Eldar. I'm not a fan of the floating sail ships, but I do have access to a good supply of used models and I do like the look of their troops as well..

WarBoss PuG
03-09-2012, 19:19
At the moment dark eldar are nails! Yeah not a fan of jabba's skift things either. Lots of other cool stuff tho. Forget what it's called maybe kill tokens or something like that but the more they kill in combat the better they get rule is bad ass, also have lots of poisoned weapons which is a big help.
If your looking at eldar striking scorpions all the way bud.

Pentregarth
03-09-2012, 19:30
Yeah, dark eldar have a very solid codex right now - and they have pretty much the same playstyle of precise strike as regular eldar, albeit their troops are somewhat less specialised. If anything, Dark Eldar are even more risk-reward than eldar, as they are even more frail than their cousins due to paper-armoured tanks.

As for the Eldar themselves, I'm not aware of any units that are a total no-go at the moment - Banshees are kind of worse than striking scorpions in close combat, especially with the nerf to power weapons in 6th, and swooping hawks are one of the cases of special rules that no longer have any use I mentioned above. Generally, if you want jump infantry, warp spiders are probably better. Note however, that I am not an Eldar player, I merely follow current trends ^^

The best way to get a feeling for a new army is probably to just play a few games using proxies...

theniffrig
03-09-2012, 19:40
Hi, I'm starting Eldar this week myself after deciding to skip Dark Vengence and get what will be the start of an Eldar army. Here is a great article that should help you if you do decide to play them. It pretty much breaks down Eldar choices completely telling you the pros/cons of each.

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/6th_Edition_Tactics/Eldar

Hope that helps!

-Totenkopf-
03-09-2012, 20:03
Awesome! thanks for all the input guys!

Homeworld
03-09-2012, 20:05
[QUOTE=Pentregarth;6405366]Yeah, dark eldar have a very solid codex right now - and they have pretty much the same playstyle of precise strike as regular eldar, albeit their troops are somewhat less specialised. If anything, Dark Eldar are even more risk-reward than eldar, as they are even more frail than their cousins due to paper-armoured tanks.

And Dark Eldar can be a very shooty army too, if properly tailored.

About the Eldar: at the moment they are difficult to use 'cause codex it's really outdated - as you mentioned - , but the they're not utterly unplayable. I fell in love with them twenty years ago and love still endures!

Totenkopf: I always rejoice when a guy finds that all pervading and all conquering marines are not his destiny. When I started with 40K I felt the Imperium allure too at first, but the xenos were far more intriguing!

Forgive me all, just a rush of xeno pride :)

owen matthew
03-09-2012, 23:15
Eldar are more versatile and can handle more phases of the game turn. Tau are less versatile and can really only manage some movement tricks and average shooting, with a few above average guns.

For a new guy I would say Eldar, there is just more there to explore and use.

EDIT: I would say its always a good choice to go with the models you like the most, first.

Charistoph
04-09-2012, 05:56
Also a thought: Some people at my LGS are playing the Eldar codex using a mix of Eldar and Dark Eldar models. So in that respect, you may want to try that route, at least that would allow you access to more plastice.

Alternatively, you can try modelling the Eldar vehicles as Open-Topped vehicles and play them as Dark Eldar.

Shamana
04-09-2012, 07:55
In contrast, how do Eldar compare to Dark Eldar. I'm not a fan of the floating sail ships, but I do have access to a good supply of used models and I do like the look of their troops as well..

DE certainly have mobility and firepower, but I'd say the biggest difference may be in terms of psykers - eldar have a very solid psychic defense in the runes of warding, as well as a lot of warlocks spread around for a further 5+ deny the witch "save", while DE have pretty much nothing in terms of or against psykers.

Then again, with the allies rule DE have no problem getting a farseer with a unit of troops to sit somewhere and mess with enemy psykers.