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View Full Version : Thinking of starting 40k, where should i go?



KimikoPT
08-09-2012, 09:26
So i play fantasy for a couple of years, and my gaming group is starting 40k because of the new edition. I'm thinking of picking a DV box but not sure... What i'm searching for is a army that can be a good "all-comers", here are the options:

- IG: how are they in this edition? I play Empire on WHF because i love big guns and weapons that wreck havoc in the battlefield, but i heard it's a expensive army to do...

- Necrons: love them and would be my first pick, but a guy on my gaming group already is starting them... i prefer variety.

-DA: this i could start with the box but... no new codex yet, and the army could use some new minis!

-Tau: i heard they were pretty bad in 5th, and a difficult army to master. Would be a good choice for a rookie?

Garion
08-09-2012, 10:55
IG are always good, in a competative sense, pure evil in a fluff sense though i guess they are meant to be the good guys in one way :S

Necrons are solid, easy to paint and pretty powerful.

DA I dunno, never played with or against them, guessing they will be pretty good. Also they are meant to have a new book out soon.

Tau have great models, I seem to remember reading somewhere there codex will be the first released next year, so its not too far off, who knows how good they will be and not many people play them so you will have that variety.

warhammered_40k
08-09-2012, 11:08
I would check out the newly released Dark Vengeance box set. It has two comparable forces (Dark Angels and Chaos Space Marines) pitted against each other. It is a very cheap way to get into the game and try to different armies out, plus it comes with everything you need to play with in the box. Dice, measuring stick, templates, plus a full color mini rulebook, mission guide, and two quik reference rule sheets (really saves on time instead of digging through the rule book).

If you can't tell I am really stoked on the box set, and I play Blood Angels. I just can't believe the detail in these snap together models, they are WAY better then anything GW have done like this before (though you are going to want superglue, sprue snips, and a hobby knife for assembly).

KimikoPT
08-09-2012, 12:52
Can i have some more feedback about IG and Tau?

Kakapo42
08-09-2012, 14:05
I personally would say forget army power and difficulty for the time being and go for either what faction you like the look of the best, what faction you like the background of the best, or both.

The Tau were not terribly potent in 5th, but they have become much better in 6th, with the new rules about rapid fire and overwatch making Firewarriors somewhat stronger. The Tau also recently just got a boost with a new FAQ that makes Disruption pods shroud vehicles at a distance and brings back the target lock (a very useful wargear upgrade), as well as some very nice Forgeworld units (fast attack Barracuda fighters, drone turrets/sensor towers and of course Tetras). Word on the street (read: internet) has it that a new codex is in the pipeline as well.

Their models look awesome as well.

Sergeant Karball
08-09-2012, 14:12
I play Imperial Guard and have done for just over a year. They are a great army to play if you like the big guns and tanks. You're right about Guard being expensive, but they really don't have to be compared to other armies. Most people go for platoons and various tanks which can get really expensive as the troops are so cheap points wise, but my list has always been veterans with carapace and special/heavy weapons, and various tanks (my favourites being the Leman Russ and Chimera). My lists don't do bad in games and I have won most games I've played with them, and best of all, they are around the same price range as other armies of the same size.

Tau are really coming back in this new edition because it seems as though assault isn't as key and harder to do effectively, so you will be getting assaulted less often when you play armies which don't rely on close combat. Close combat was the reason that Tau basically failed so much in the last edition because they just couldn't hold their own in assault. Now though Tau armies are on the rise and are said to be one of the most competitive armies this edition, especially when they are all in Devilfish's and have heavy support.

But, I would advise you to buy a Dark Vengeance box for several reasons. As warhammered_40k said, the box is a cheap way to get into the game and you will be able to try out the two armies in it and you may decide that one of them is your 'perfect' army. Also, chaos marines and Dark Angels are rumoured to be the next two 'dex updates, so they could turn out to be great in this edition and there are even new mini's rumoured (the Chaos 'Dragon' for one).

Sithlord
08-09-2012, 14:28
IG > great army, or I mean... cheese armies :p they have a lot of undercosted vehicles (particularly vendettas and manticores), if you want to smack all those heavy weapon stuff and still have numbers on you, go for it. But yes... you have to pay for that huge number armies

Tau > If you overtight on budget, and low time to paint, I guess tau it's for you. They are not bad and have great models, and to be truth if you want like precision long range firing armies, this is for you (especially when you play a lot of guns for empire WFB) but beware.... they not an army that can win in CC (pretty much they get slaughtered easily even against non-dedicated assault units). This also one of the armies that will get updated next year (aside black templar, space marine, sisters of battle, eldar and ork)

Firaxin
10-09-2012, 05:00
Honestly with regards to Tau/Dark Angels, I suggest waiting for the new codexes. Anything we tell you about them is subject to imminent change.

Charistoph
10-09-2012, 05:32
And don't forget the laast option: Allies!

If you like the Dark Angel models and/or story, get Dark Vengeance. You can use everything DA in an Allied Detachment with no difficulties (well, you'll have to pick out of the 2/3 HQs) and a good start on a Primary Faction. I haven't kept up with DA rumors, but at the least, just paint them different, and they could fit in to regular SM or Blood Angels if you want to try them out. Space Marines of any type make for good allies to both Tau and Guard with their ability to be strong, elite models in armies of weak infantry (vehicles, are whole different story).

Imperial Guard have some of the best vehicles in the game, with a versatile and eclectic mix. Their Infantry mostly sucks, though, but they are cheap in points (well, most of them). The Hydra and Vendetta are also the best Anti-Air options right now.

Tau have good vehicles with awesome upgrades. The upgrades are currently very cheap, but the base hulls are overpriced, so it tends to wash. The Infantry is good at shooting with battlesuits for backup. Those battlesuits tend to be annoying for your enemy, as they jump out, shoot, and then may jump back to cover before they can shoot back. Their biggest problem right now is their book is the second oldest with a few developmental holes that require some time with the FAQ/Ammendments to get straight. Model line is good, with most of it plastic.

Both IG and tau tend to suck in close combat. IG solve the problem with bigger guns and outnumbering the enemy. Tau try to use their range to not be available to be charged, and pound the enemy with more precise firepower.

Cap'n Facebeard
10-09-2012, 09:34
Their Infantry mostly sucks

I would say this is a matter of opinion, I have seen Guard infantry forces do really well all through 5th, and everyone's saying infantry has a boost now. I can't imagine snap fire is bad for IG infantry.

I would say collect IG. Everyone I've seen collect IG, including myself, becomes a complete tragic for them. They're an addictive force and an army you can add to forever.

Charistoph
10-09-2012, 15:21
I would say this is a matter of opinion, I have seen Guard infantry forces do really well all through 5th, and everyone's saying infantry has a boost now. I can't imagine snap fire is bad for IG infantry.

I should have said that they mostly suck on an individual basis. Get enough of them and things tend to die to overwhelming volume of fire.

Ealdwulf
10-09-2012, 15:31
Can i have some more feedback about IG and Tau?

Klimiko, I played Tau for a long time and only recently sold them off (for no reason other than I was bored). I can tell you that they are very much a ranged army, if you get good at thinking ahead and maneuvering you can cut people to ribbons. This became a bit tougher last edition, but as I understand it assaulting is quite as big in the current book.

I always liked Tau for their hard hitting ability and maneuverable options. Also from a painting perspective you really get everything, the hard lines of the modern tau soldiers to the barbaric kroot and vespids. Cool thing about Tau is that if you are considering IG, you can always take Imperials that have defected to the Tau empire. Kind of a interesting narrative and fun to convert.

Blinder
10-09-2012, 19:06
I would say this is a matter of opinion, I have seen Guard infantry forces do really well all through 5th, and everyone's saying infantry has a boost now. I can't imagine snap fire is bad for IG infantry.

I would say collect IG. Everyone I've seen collect IG, including myself, becomes a complete tragic for them. They're an addictive force and an army you will add to forever.

Fixed that for ya ;)

From a mostly-40k bit-of-fantasy standpoint, Empire looks about 75% guard and 25% Marines (possibly of the Red or Grey variety). IG will definitely give you your "big guns" fix between the tanks and widespread availability of template/blast, and has some of the interdependence/composite unit stuff going on (not as tightly-bound as detachments, but plenty of ways to have plenty of models running around telling each other what to do). If you're heavily into the more elite aspects you'll probably find the IG list a bit hollow, however. We don't really have anything you could use like some of the Empire cav and get away with it (there are some fighty units but if you want to regularly beat on things after the artillery has had its fun, they're not really good options). It does do a fairly good number of fairly balanced lists, though. Main downside, as you mention, is that the overall pricetag is (still) at/near the top of the list... though the current codex isn't nearly as bad as the previous two.

Starter box- is always worth considering. IG + either force allied in gets some of the Empire stuff that IG is lacking (a crunchy center), either force + IG gets you a change of pace with a side of guilty artillery goodness. If you've got a group you should be able to borrow codexes for a bit until the new DA book turns up, and if they end up being not as "all comers" as you'd like there's always the blue codex.

Necrons- very powerful currently, and should still be one of the more wallet-friendly ways to get an effective force?

Tau- not quite Wood Elf status, and some of their stuff just got rather nice. A lot of their stuff is still out-dated and priced for lower model-counts but once you get the hang of them you can do pretty well. There are a good number of things that just never make it into lists though.

DEADMARSH
11-09-2012, 15:08
So i play fantasy for a couple of years, and my gaming group is starting 40k because of the new edition. I'm thinking of picking a DV box but not sure... What i'm searching for is a army that can be a good "all-comers", here are the options:

- IG: how are they in this edition? I play Empire on WHF because i love big guns and weapons that wreck havoc in the battlefield, but i heard it's a expensive army to do...

- Necrons: love them and would be my first pick, but a guy on my gaming group already is starting them... i prefer variety.

-DA: this i could start with the box but... no new codex yet, and the army could use some new minis!

-Tau: i heard they were pretty bad in 5th, and a difficult army to master. Would be a good choice for a rookie?

Which models do you like best?

Codexes come and go; some are good, some are not so good. The look of the models though- the design aesthetic, that's something that doesn't change nearly as often. Choose the army you think you'll enjoy the most assembling, painting, and looking at on the board. You can always find ways to compensate if it doesn't perform up to your standards because of a "bad" codex.

Unless of course you're a hardcore tournament player. Then you need to just wait until the next codex comes out and buy whatever that is. :)

KimikoPT
11-09-2012, 15:23
I donīt want to happen the same thing i got with Tomb Kings: loved the models, but in the table... Ended selling them. Thatīs why i'm asking for opinions: don't want a uber cheesy army, just 1 that i like and is competent on the tabletop.

Saim-Hann Lord
11-09-2012, 18:19
Here's a reason why you WANT to play an Imperial Guard army. Forget the rest ;)

http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w382/AStephen16/7ca2e8fe.jpg

http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w382/AStephen16/28b21e20.jpg

http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w382/AStephen16/f3e8a489.jpg

Now, go to the bank and take out a small-medium loan ;)

Lord-Gen Bale Chambers
11-09-2012, 18:47
Due to the cost of some units such as vendettas and manticores, it is possible to spam them and create a cheesy list.

It is also perfectly possible to avoid them and still make a good army. Probably moreso with guard then any other army you can get away with taking a non-optimized list or upgrades you like for flavor and still do well because there are some units that are undercosted.

As mentioned already, Guard become an obsession! You always want more or want to create a new regiment from forge world or something that includes a twisted combination of bits from multiple unrelated boxes... not that I am speaking from experience or anything :p

DEADMARSH
12-09-2012, 13:00
I donīt want to happen the same thing i got with Tomb Kings: loved the models, but in the table... Ended selling them. Thatīs why i'm asking for opinions: don't want a uber cheesy army, just 1 that i like and is competent on the tabletop.

Well, of the armies you have listed, Imperial Guard is probably the army I'd suggest.

For one, there are a lot of options for starting a Guard army. Obviously, you've got Cadians and Catachan models currently available, but with a little digging, you could start up one of the old regiments like Steel Legion or Tallarn or Mordians. Now, they're metal, so if you're dead set on spamming melta vets, it's going to be a pain to convert them, but if you just like the notion of having a Guard army, it's fun to do a regiment less represented. Of course, if you've got the cash, there's the Death Korps or Elysians from ForgeWorld as well.

Second thing, you can run several fairly viable Guard builds. You don't have to go the uber cheesy Vendettas and Manticores route to field a competitive Guard army. Is that generally accepted as being the most optimized build? Yes. Can you win friendly games with other builds in a competitively friendly situation? Hell yeah. The composition of my Guard army hasn't changed much since 2006 (i.e. before the new codex). I play with Steel Legion minis, so I have grenade launchers and plasma guns for my assault weapons, heavy weapon teams with heavy bolters, lascannons, and a couple of autocannons that were easy conversions; not a meltagun in the entire army. My infantry is mainly in Chimeras (hey- we're Steel Legion after all!) and I usually run a two Russes (sometimes 3 squadroned, just depends on what kind of mood I'm in) in addition to the Armageddon pattern Basilisk I got from ForgeWorld back in the day. Long story long, the army is not optimized- it's not been wrought through points optimization scenarios, and yet, it still wins more than it loses. Now, do I take it to tournaments all the time? In the fairness of complete disclosure, no- I do not. Competitive friendly matches are what I largely play these days.

There's a lot of fluff out there, so there's potentially a lot of inspiration floating around. Look into the Guard, you probably won't regret it!