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View Full Version : So are Jokaeros animals/pet or Xeno?



mojo jojo
08-09-2012, 21:58
So are Jokaeros animal pet or Xeno? If they are Xeno, how come they are not exterminated? I thought that Imperial killed all Xeno that they meet?

Sexiest_hero
08-09-2012, 22:34
Not these days, some xeno are best friends with imperials, in fact some armies like Zeno armies more than other imperial armies!

boogle
08-09-2012, 22:52
Because the Jokero create brilliant digital weapons, the Imperium tolerate them and use them

Orcboy_Phil
09-09-2012, 00:23
There... weird. As far s the Imperium can tell they have an animal like intelligence with none of the trappings of other sentients but somehow there able to create all these amazing gadgets. Of course in the old Necron fluff there creations of the old ones used to fight there war with the C'tan as where the Orks and Eldar (though it with the new book it seems they where uplifted).

ctsteel
09-09-2012, 00:42
Some of the more purist/xenophobic aspects will likely not tolerate them and possibly even go so far as to exterminate them, but if they have been assessed by the administratum/adeptus biologis as being non-threatening and possibly useful (as with some mutant/abhuman strains, and even the tau IIRC when they were first encountered as savages) then they may be tolerated and put to use by open minded people with sufficient authority to firstly make contact with such beings, and secondly to stand above reproach by those who do not see things the same way.

We're essentially talking of just the Ordo Xenos and possibly some rogue traders, since all other aspects of the Imperium are discouraged from associating with xenos and their creations (even the tolerated/officially sanctioned species). So I think it is probably a case that most would not have much to do with them for fear of taint, some will openly hate/segregate/purge, and others with more liberal views will use them and their creations more directly.

It seems that their creations (digital weapons etc) are also more tolerated once they are removed somewhat from their origins (over time or through multiple owners) - such things seem to be treated as expensive and rare artifacts worth having, than the fabrications of vile aliens - much like some Heresy-era weaponry. Interesting how views can soften and eyes turn blind, when something useful and valuable is in your ownership :)

S_A_T_S
09-09-2012, 01:14
You have to think of it like Daemonhosts - if chaos is the ultimate enemy of mankind, why the **** would the Inquisition summon daemons and bind them to the material realm? By the same token, if your empire broadcasts xenophobic propaganda to all its citizens constantly for 10,000+ years, wouldn't everybody be so brainwashed into hating xenos that they'd never in a million years hire one as a chum to back them up in combat? Aren't xenos all psychotic backstabbing scum? No right-minded human would have one covering them!

The reality is that, although that is what the Imperium does believe and makes sure its citizens believe, the entire purpose of the Inquisition is to think and do the unthinkable, to solve problems the blunt force of the rest of the Imperium simply can't. For that reason they get free rein to think outside the box, and the power to implement their plans. If an Inquisitor thinks summoning a daemon is the best way to solve a problem, that's what she'll do. If she needs lots of hidden but powerful weaponry for a series of missions and the best way to get them is to contract a jokaero, they'll do it. Finis Coronat Opus - the end justifies the means.

mojo jojo
09-09-2012, 13:53
You have to think of it like Daemonhosts - if chaos is the ultimate enemy of mankind, why the **** would the Inquisition summon daemons and bind them to the material realm? By the same token, if your empire broadcasts xenophobic propaganda to all its citizens constantly for 10,000+ years, wouldn't everybody be so brainwashed into hating xenos that they'd never in a million years hire one as a chum to back them up in combat? Aren't xenos all psychotic backstabbing scum? No right-minded human would have one covering them!

The reality is that, although that is what the Imperium does believe and makes sure its citizens believe, the entire purpose of the Inquisition is to think and do the unthinkable, to solve problems the blunt force of the rest of the Imperium simply can't. For that reason they get free rein to think outside the box, and the power to implement their plans. If an Inquisitor thinks summoning a daemon is the best way to solve a problem, that's what she'll do. If she needs lots of hidden but powerful weaponry for a series of missions and the best way to get them is to contract a jokaero, they'll do it. Finis Coronat Opus - the end justifies the means.


Has there ever been a fluff that somebody used Inquisition did it... so I did it too defense?

Lord Zarkov
09-09-2012, 15:26
Has there ever been a fluff that somebody used Inquisition did it... so I did it too defense?

Given the Inquisition isn't allowed to use the "an Inquisitor did it so can I" defence I doubt it'd be too successful.
The amount of hypocrisy and doublethink daemonhosts create is impressive.

II Orar II
09-09-2012, 15:29
It's possible that due to their resemblance to earth creatures that Inquisitors find them easier to stomach and see them as less xeno-like, they're practically animals with an aptitude for technology. Same way they tolerate abhumans like Ogryns and Ratlings. Besides as it's been stated before more rogue elements of the inquisition have a history of using xeno species to further their cause.

Lord Zarkov
09-09-2012, 15:33
It's possible that due to their resemblance to earth creatures that Inquisitors find them easier to stomach and see them as less xeno-like. Same way they tolerate abhumans like Ogryns and Ratlings.
Also, because they're fairly animalisitic and don't talk etc the Inquisitor can just talk it off a 'yeah he's my trained pet, not remotely a xenos at all' to anybody not in the know (which will be most of the people they have to deal with other than the Admech or other Inquisitors).

mojo jojo
09-09-2012, 15:56
Also, because they're fairly animalisitic and don't talk etc the Inquisitor can just talk it off a 'yeah he's my trained pet, not remotely a xenos at all' to anybody not in the know (which will be most of the people they have to deal with other than the Admech or other Inquisitors).


Doesn't the Imperial have a list of Things to kill... like:
Ork - kill on site
Chaos mutant - kill on site
Wild Boar (savages Ork) - animals, kill if you want...
Jokaros - ?? So is Jokaros a "boar" or "ork"

I would think that all Guards have a basic manual of Xeno kill list ... you know?

viv714r
09-09-2012, 16:03
What, like a Pokedex of xenos. *Scans xenos*, Ork; fighting type, advised course of action: KILL IT WITH FIRE.

II Orar II
09-09-2012, 16:07
Also, because they're fairly animalisitic and don't talk etc the Inquisitor can just talk it off a 'yeah he's my trained pet, not remotely a xenos at all' to anybody not in the know (which will be most of the people they have to deal with other than the Admech or other Inquisitors).

Haha yea I added that you quoted me before i edited =p

mojo jojo
09-09-2012, 16:53
What, like a Pokedex of xenos. *Scans xenos*, Ork; fighting type, advised course of action: KILL IT WITH FIRE.


Yes, something like that. Imperial are fighting Xenos. . . . not human (not always), so Imperial must have a guide book how to kill xenos or what are xenos and what are animals....

Example... little nurgling, they are so cute. ... Don't let them fool ya... they are Nurgle's Demons... kill on site. With out a book, some stupid guard just might keep a nurgling in a jar as a pet and before long... you got Nurgle's rot problem.

brionl
09-09-2012, 17:11
Doesn't the Imperial have a list of Things to kill... like:
Ork - kill on site
Chaos mutant - kill on site


Yeah, you wouldn't want to kill something off-site. Having to carry it around first is tedious.

II Orar II
09-09-2012, 17:23
Imperial guards uplifting primer has a guide on the xenos that will be seen on campaign.

All Cing Eye
09-09-2012, 18:09
The thing with Jokaero is that you can't communicate with them and don't have any trappings of a society or civilization making them more like an animal like a grox than an intelligent xenos like a Tau. They are however innately able to create all sorts of weird and wonderful items.

mojo jojo
10-09-2012, 01:56
Yeah, you wouldn't want to kill something off-site. Having to carry it around first is tedious.


D'oh!..... got me and good one LOL. sight.... sight....sight....

Lord-Caerolion
10-09-2012, 07:09
Has there ever been a fluff that somebody used Inquisition did it... so I did it too defense?

I would assume there is, but it wouldn't do them any good. Remember, what the Inquisition believes should be punished entirely depends on the Inquisitor in question. Some Inquisitors look at that recidivist cult and think "those guys could be damned useful if I want to influence this planet" and subtly take over the group. Other Inquisitors think that doing anything other than going in guns blazing, screaming "I'm an Inquisitor, bow before me", and proceed to torch the entire slums to make sure you got all the damned dirty mutants, is the direst of heresy (gotta love the Monodominants).

Aluinn
10-09-2012, 08:18
If we're talking about what they actually are, i.e. whether they are sapient or just sentient, they're probably a lot like dolphins in the sense that they are very intelligent, but not in a way that humans find easy to measure, because they're intelligent in a such a different way than we are. They are probably self-aware but whether they have psychological traits that humans would identify with or even recognize is unclear, e.g. it's probably impossible to tell whether they're cognizant of their own mortality and worry about dying, or whatever. In this way I don't think they're much like, say, chimps, in spite of the superficial similarities, because chimps have a very human-like kind of intelligence, for obvious reasons.

If we're talking about how the Imperium or the Inquisition views them, I don't think all inquisitors accept them as things that should not be purged on sight. It's a radical vs. puritan debate in the Ordo Xenos and the Inquisition at large, much like the use of daemonhosts or daemon weapons in the Ordo Malleus: Do you use the tools of the enemy (intelligent aliens and their technology, in this case) against the enemy (other aliens, in this case), or do you take the uncompromising stance that anything associated with the enemy is to be completely avoided at the very least, and eradicated utterly when possible. Jokaero are probably not regarded much differently than alien technology in spite of being living things, especially because their primary use is the (unpredictable) production or re-production of technology, though employing them is probably slightly more controversial than using alien guns or whatever. I would guess there are enough Ordo Xenos inquisitors who are fine with them that it's more the kind of thing that's often argued about but rarely results in anyone coming to blows, but that's just the impression I get.

PANZERBUNNY
10-09-2012, 10:57
Put a handful of them in front of the golden throne and demand they fix it.

That should get them in someones good graces.

Lord Zarkov
10-09-2012, 11:34
Put a handful of them in front of the golden throne and demand they fix it.

That should get them in someones good graces.

That tends not to work, the Jokaero just build some sort of escape mechanism instead.

Shamana
10-09-2012, 14:11
Actually, I think "Xenos" is a term used for any non-terrestrial lifeform, whether it be a grox, a fly or a tyrannid bio-titan. So Jokaero are xenos, no problem there. Again, so are Grox, and the Imperium has certainly no plans to eradicate them from existance.

Xenos Horribilis is the classification used for alien species that are hostile and dangerous to humanity - i.e. Eldar, Tau, Ork, Nids etc. Jokaero are not one of those, ergo they can be seen as no greater threat to humanity than the Vekurian Dust Bunny*.


*: The Vekurian Dust Bunny is a small furry animal not unlike the capybaras that is a widely spread herbivore on Vekur III. Its meat is edible, and that combined with its low food requirements, rough fur and fast breeding cycle make it one of the important factors in Vekurian agriculture and light industry. It is also something I just made up as an example, so don't bother looking it up.

Aluinn
12-09-2012, 12:51
Actually, I think "Xenos" is a term used for any non-terrestrial lifeform, whether it be a grox, a fly or a tyrannid bio-titan. So Jokaero are xenos, no problem there. Again, so are Grox, and the Imperium has certainly no plans to eradicate them from existance.

Xenos Horribilis is the classification used for alien species that are hostile and dangerous to humanity - i.e. Eldar, Tau, Ork, Nids etc. Jokaero are not one of those, ergo they can be seen as no greater threat to humanity than the Vekurian Dust Bunny*.


*: The Vekurian Dust Bunny is a small furry animal not unlike the capybaras that is a widely spread herbivore on Vekur III. Its meat is edible, and that combined with its low food requirements, rough fur and fast breeding cycle make it one of the important factors in Vekurian agriculture and light industry. It is also something I just made up as an example, so don't bother looking it up.

That is the "liberal" stance within the Inquisition and Imperium in general. I think the hard-line stance involves much more assessment of intelligence, because "puritans" consider any alien with human-like (yet non-human, and thus abhorrent) intelligence to be an abomination. The *ahem* nicer guys base things off a threat asessment, thus e.g. may use Kroot mercenaries because Kroot are pretty reliable mercenaries that aren't likely to turn on you in the middle of a battle as long as their preconditions are met--needless to say, these are the sorts of people who are down with Jokaero, under some conditions--whereas others just see Kroot as a detestable, disgusting mockery of the perfection of humanity and think they should all be burninated on sight.

This is where Jokaero may get in trouble: They might be intelligent enough that their very existence might be considered an affront to humanity and, on a more practical basis, a threat, albeit a tiny one, to unchallenged human domination of the galaxy. In the puritan view, a grox is fine, despite being an alien, because it can't reason, can't produce technology (use tools), doesn't have psychic potential, and as far as I know cannot be corrupted by Chaos, except in the sense that a brick can be corrupted by Chaos, which is to say only with difficulty and rarely. Jokaero are a penumbral case because they can produce technology in a way that is in fact quite dangerous, and some humans may interpret as a major threat (they can produce macro cannons and nukes and such, after all), even if they don't seem to do it with any rhyme or reason (but who knows what their real agenda is? DUM DUM DUMMMM!).

In other words some Inquisitors would likely stamp them horribilis, whilst others would not.