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Asp
09-09-2012, 11:48
how do you resolve a situation where a warrior both strikes first and last?

DaemonReign
09-09-2012, 11:53
ASF combined with ASL means the model will attack in accordance with its Initiative-order unless specifically stated otherwise - such as the Daemonic Gift Noxious Vapours that specifically states that the effected models "lose the ASF rule, if they have it" and instead "gain the ASL rule".

But in the vast majority of cases it would mean that you strike in Initiative order (as though you had neither ASL or ASF to begin with).

Asp
09-09-2012, 12:01
cool, thanks!

jindianajonz
09-09-2012, 15:00
It explains this very explicitly in the Always Strikes Last rule description.

AMWOOD co
10-09-2012, 02:13
It should also be noted that the High Elves' Speed of Assuryan is the most common exception to this rule (it is explicitly stated in the FAQ).

Asp
10-09-2012, 08:37
seesm pretty clunky, designwise

Lord Zarkov
10-09-2012, 08:45
It should also be noted that the High Elves' Speed of Assuryan is the most common exception to this rule (it is explicitly stated in the FAQ).

Although it's worth noting that Speed of Asuryan is only an exception for ASL caused by a HE's weapon. ASL caused by other means (e.g. Bat Swarms or Thundertusks) will still negate the ASF from SoA.

Baraqiel
11-09-2012, 14:41
Although it's worth noting that Speed of Asuryan is only an exception for ASL caused by a HE's weapon. ASL caused by other means (e.g. Bat Swarms or Thundertusks) will still negate the ASF from SoA.

How are you coming to this conclusion? SoA just says they get ASF regardless of what weapon they have.

Lord Zarkov
11-09-2012, 15:34
How are you coming to this conclusion? SoA just says they get ASF regardless of what weapon they have.

You answered your own question. SOA gives ASF "regardless of what weapon they have", not "always, regardless of any other factor, ever".

It's otherwise subject to all the normal rules for ASF, which includes ASL taking it away.

So a HE with a Great Weapon ignores it's ability to remove his ASF, but another source of ASL will affect him just fine.

Geech
22-09-2012, 15:40
Where in the FAQ may I ask?

T10
22-09-2012, 17:16
It seems you expect the FAQ to state this explicitly. It does not. The FAQ (which is linked as a sticky at the top of this sub-forum) says:

Q. The Speed of Asuryan special rule states that “all High Elves
have the special rule Always Strike First, regardless of the weapon
they are wielding.” How does this interact with a great weapons
Always Strike Last? (p43)

A. The army book will take precedence in this situation. For
example, a Sword Master would strike first with his great
weapon. If his Initiative value is equal to or higher than his
opponent’s, he will also benefit from a re-roll to hit.

Which means it simply re-affirms that the ASL special rule from great weapons are discounted. The FAQ does not address the issue of ASL gained from other sources.

If not for the fact that the FAQ says different, the Speed of Auryan might just as well have said "all High Elves have the special rule Always Strike First, regardless of weather", since having ASL doesn't remove ASF, but having both means neither apply; i.e. they have no effect.

Geech
22-09-2012, 23:12
Does that mean that my swordmaster with ASF will strike 1st and roll misses against Ogres having
ASL?

AMWOOD co
23-09-2012, 05:36
Does that mean that my swordmaster with ASF will strike 1st and roll misses against Ogres having
ASL?

Your Swordmasters don't count as having the Always Strikes Last rule from their great weapons thanks to the Speed of Assuryan (as I mentioned before) and so will strike first against any Ogre as long as the Swordmasters keep their Strike First and the Ogre doesn't have it as well.

(Disclaimer: Some magic items and spells may change this. AMWOOD co and its affiliates are not responsible for the 100% accuracy of this statement.)

T10
23-09-2012, 08:07
Does that mean that my swordmaster with ASF will strike 1st and roll misses against Ogres having
ASL?

Are you actually asking "What happens if my High Elf Swordmaster is fighting Ogres and is given the Always Strike Last special rule for being within range of the Thundertusk's special ability?"

Then the model has both the ASF and ASL special rule. This means he fights at Initiative and he does not benefit from the re-roll to hit. This is because the benefit is part of the ASF special rule, which does not apply since the model also has the ASL special rule.

-T10

T10
23-09-2012, 08:08
Does that mean that my swordmaster with ASF will strike 1st and roll misses against Ogres having
ASL?

Are you actually asking "What happens if my High Elf Swordmaster is fighting Ogres and is given the Always Strike Last special rule for being within range of the Thundertusk's special ability?"

Then the model has both the ASF and ASL special rule. This means he fights at Initiative and he does not benefit from the re-roll to hit. This is because the benefit is part of the ASF special rule, which does not apply since the model also has the ASL special rule.

-T10