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Sackree
11-09-2012, 02:06
Iím looking for some help guys.
I play High Elves and I have a game coming up against chaos dwarves, but I know nothing about them. I have never even looked at the chaos dwarf book, let alone seen them on the table. All I know is that they can pack a lot of fire power and have a big nasty destroyer.

What should I look out for? What are good tactics against them? What units are viable?
Also can they dispel magic as well as regular Dwarves or is a magic heavy route a good idea in a list against them?

Any advice will be greatly appreciated, high elf specific advice even more so haha
Cheers in Advance guys

m1acca1551
11-09-2012, 03:35
Are SC allowed, he puts down destroyer, you put down teclis :P

On a serious note, i'd be taking eagles to tie up warmachines for a turn, a level 4 life will be needed, book of hoeth if your feeling mean lol. Life will be needed to regrow your elite units, and flesh to stone will hopefully negate some of the chaos dwarfen shooting. If the destroyer is fielded, eagles will be needed to re-direct the beast. I'd be taking phoenix guard due to the 4++ the immune to magic banner they will able to cross the field and wreck face easily. Banner of saphery for the extra d3 spell dice will help you in your magic phase to get through some of your needed spells, a bunker of bowmen with your level 4 wouldn't go amiss. Not having faced chaos dwarfs before makes giving advice hard, as they are a relative unknown, they are like dwarfs but with fast moving monsters :( and cheap throw away unit like hobgoblins.

You will need to seize the intiative and move up as quickly as possible, i'd say jump on youtube and see if there are any batreps featuring chaos dwarfs and that will give you a better ability of how players are unsing them and what tactics you can expect.

Artinam
11-09-2012, 11:06
Note that they do not dispell like Dwarves, they have their own magic users. So usually they have a Level 4 as support.

Jack of Blades
11-09-2012, 11:45
What about a hero to tie up and grind down the destroyer? on a steed with dragon armour (it gives a 2+ ward against flaming attacks right? or was it only against weapons consisting of pure flame?), a great weapon and the other trickster's shard you have a relatively cheap tarpit that also beats it in combat and can proceed to clean up the backfield in case the destroyer dies. I'd say it's at least worth a try.

EDIT: Oh wait you must re-roll successful rolls to wound against it unless you have a magic weapon... well screw it :p

DarKolia
12-09-2012, 06:14
Hi

I've seen them destroy a DE army last week!
They do hit hard...
High T+GW like regular dwarves
Awful artillery
Big monsters
Flying unit
Magic
From what I've seen they seemed so OP that it would actually be the first time that using Teclis or the book of Oeth may actually balance the game...
But I may actually be wrong (the DE player seemed quite novice thought it had a two hydras list, while the CD player was an old seasoned guy, most of his unit being OOP GW models from the 80ies)

Bladelord
12-09-2012, 08:29
Pit of Shades is excellent against dwarfs in general so you could give Shadow magic a shot if you like the lore.

A couple of ways to deal with the K'daai Destroyer:
Noble with dragon armour, Foe Bane & other Trickster's Shard.
Archmage with Folariath's Robe (Steed of Shadows makes it alot easier).
Shadow magic to decrease its toughness (it must take a T test each turn or suffer D3 wounds).

logan054
12-09-2012, 11:41
Hi

I've seen them destroy a DE army last week!
They do hit hard...
High T+GW like regular dwarves
Awful artillery
Big monsters
Flying unit
Magic
From what I've seen they seemed so OP that it would actually be the first time that using Teclis or the book of Oeth may actually balance the game...
But I may actually be wrong (the DE player seemed quite novice thought it had a two hydras list, while the CD player was an old seasoned guy, most of his unit being OOP GW models from the 80ies)

I suggest you actually read the rules for the army, the only op thing is the destroyer, the rest is a bit over priced.

I guess dragon princes could be a option for dealing with a destroyer, at the worst they should hold it in combat most of the game with a little help from lore of life.

Minty
13-09-2012, 20:14
Chaos Dwarves do everything Dwarves do, a little bit better - excpet anti-magic. They also do all the things Dwarves don't do (monsters, cavalry, magic etc).

That makes them an unpleasant army to play against they are as dull as Dwarves, but harder to beat too

On the plus side, they are pretty much the only army in the game (assuming you count FW army lists as being 'in the game' rather than fandexes with unusually high production values) with correctly priced Great Weapons. Most armies get their GWs far too cheap for a game with step-up and chargers hitting in init-order.



Which brings me on to fighting them. I confess, I haven't taken my Asur against them yet, but I've fought 'em a couple of times with modest success (around a 50% win rate).

White Lions or PG are the obvious choice for wading through fireglaives for three turns before the charge.

Eagles will not have a hope of beating any of their warmachines (or the Hellcannon which isn't technically a warmachine), but might give you hard cover for a turn. Some days, it sucks to be an eagle.

Shadow and Life magic are still the go-to lores. The Book is very much an acceptable recourse against the Chaos Dwarf's own cheese. They are still Dwarves, they still wake up at night, trembling about a irresistible Pit of
Shades. I've had good results with the Lore of Heavens, though. They hate the Comet as much as any M3 army that castles up in a small, comet-sized clump.

A hoard of PG with the BotWD is also justified if you feel like playing prison rules.

Magma Cannons hurt so very, very much. Consider deploying wide and short to minimise damage. The Hellcanon also hurts, but we have good Leadership, so you might get lucky. Don't let the other player forget his Rampage rolls.

You flat out cannot win a shooting war against Chaos Dwarves, so leave your Archers and RBTs at home. However, anything that closes the distance faster is a good idea. You'll almost certainly want some Dragon Princes. Consider also chariots and maybe even a Prince on Dragon.

Dragon Princes with the Amulet of Light seem like a good way to at least tie down the Destroyer, if they can't kill it.

jarbo
14-09-2012, 05:17
Well with my lizzards I'm 3-0. I'd take at least a lv 2 with light and a seer staff to assure you get phas protection as it can be absolutely amazing at shutting down his shooting phase. Throw 4-6 dice the first 2 turns and make sure the buffed version goes off. This will minimize the damage you take and give you time to tie up/destroy his war machines.

Like everyone else said, PG and WL will be a good choice with a unit or two of dragon princes.

Da Crusha
15-09-2012, 01:23
Chaos Dwarves do everything Dwarves do, a little bit better - excpet anti-magic. They also do all the things Dwarves don't do (monsters, cavalry, magic etc).

That makes them an unpleasant army to play against they are as dull as Dwarves, but harder to beat too

On the plus side, they are pretty much the only army in the game (assuming you count FW army lists as being 'in the game' rather than fandexes with unusually high production values) with correctly priced Great Weapons. Most armies get their GWs far too cheap for a game with step-up and chargers hitting in init-order.



as a chaos dwarf player I dont agree with this. we dont have cheap dwarfs, we cant customize magic items or warmachines (upgrade, yes. but not the same or better), no scouts, no miners, no fighty lords. our fireglaives cost 17 points a piece and are basically shorter range handguns without the +1 to hit. generally our troops and equipment upgrades cost too much.

we also have a ton of restrictions, for example no k'daai without a wizard, chaos dwarf heroes cannot join hobgoblin units, and Hobgoblin heroes cannot join chaos dwarf units. we cant have a bull centaur Hero unless we have a unit of bull centaurs which suck by the way. the bull centaur cannot be the army general or Battle standard Bearer.

Minty
15-09-2012, 13:10
Perhaps I overstated the breadth of Chaos Dwarf's abilities. I was generalising, but I stand by that generalisation. From my side of the table (and from Sackree's) a Chaos Dwarf army looks very much like a Dwarf army with extra toys. No doubt if I played either or both armies the distinctions would be plain to me, but this isn't about playing with those armies, but against them.

I have to disagree with the 'our troops and equipment cost too much' bit, though. They look rather well priced to me, not too cheap or expensive. Unless you mean 'cost too much in £££' - that's Forgeworld for you.

Da Crusha
16-09-2012, 10:33
55 points for fireborn, a 2 attack 2 wound 40mm troop. 40 points for a bull centaur 2 attacks and 3 wounds, and a huge base 75x50. the basic chaos dwarf (infernal guard) cost 12 each and then the upgrades are 3 for Great weapons, 6 for fireglaive and 7 for blunderbuss. blunderbuss arent any good in units under 20. the dreadquake cost 215 is and is far less effective then the previous ravening hordes earthshaker, for double the cost and will blow up 50% of the time it misfires. these of course are the most ridiculously priced stuff.

FraustyTheSnowman
16-09-2012, 14:36
Minty...if you honestly think the chaos dwarves are fairly priced you should try proxying them a couple games and see how it goes.

Minty
16-09-2012, 20:39
People say that my armies (Brets and High Elves) are overpriced too, but I seem to do okay. Having skimmed the Legion of Wossname list I'm inclined to think this is another one of those internet-thinks-the-sky-is-falling-when-it's-not things. Chaos Dwarves have costly infantry but bargain warmachines and it all balances out somewhere in the bottom half of mid-tier. If you subscribe to the tier theory, which not everyone does.

I still have a perfect 1:1 win/loss ratio against them which means, at worst, they can't be much more costly than my all-mounted Brets.

That's well nigh a universal thing with Forgeworld, though. Every time they put out a new unit or list half the internet cries 'overpowered' and the other half cry 'overpriced' and I go and make some tea.

FraustyTheSnowman
16-09-2012, 23:37
I've yet to talk to anyone who doesn't think high elves are broken over powered crap, but I'm still pretty new to fantasy so who knows. I can see what you're saying about the warmachines, but I don't think that it all evens out in the end. Looks like it's an agree to disagree kinda thing though.