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Vissah
12-09-2012, 12:30
I got a campaign coming up that with 4 of my mates and we have to play each other two times (just like football) and then we score points and at the end we see who the winner is.

But there are some houserules and there is one that got me thinking and I don't know what Lore to chose. I will be fielding a lvl 4 ofcourse and the games are 2000 points.
The rule is that spell 6 is not allowed, if you roll a 6 then you get to choose another spell. I played with Shadow cause I thought then I at least got spell 5 that big template one but also Death is really working good with his 24 inch -1 S and T bubble and -3 leadership.

So my question is what Lore would you guys take if you are not allowed to play with spell 6. I been doubting between Death (cause of Soulblight and Doom and Darkness) or Shadow (cause of Pit of Shades and those debuff spells) but maybe someone else knows something that i don't know and got some tips for me.

The armies playing are: Warriors of Chaos (me), Savage Orcs, Goblins, Ogres and maybe some Skaven.

My army is a level 4 mage
Hero BSB
2 units of 18 Warriors with Shields
1 unit of 10 Knights
1 Shaggoth (I know he is not the best but I like the model, Chariots will come later when the rumored new models are out.)
2 units of 5 Dogs

These are all the models I have so far cause this is my first Fantasy army after playing 40K for 5 years straight.


Thanx.

russellmoo
12-09-2012, 13:14
That is an odd house rule-

The answer to your question is simple- and it doesn't matter if you have access to the 6th spell or not as it is a superior magic lore to all others- you take Shadow

Malorian
12-09-2012, 14:50
All your opponents suffer from leadership issues. Death could actually work very well. However with your elite army I would stay with shadow to debuff and keep losses to a minimum.

Necromancy Black
12-09-2012, 15:14
Shadow for the debuffs works well but getting Doom and Darkness from Death would be really good to help combat against steadfast troops in the goblin and orc armies (and also skaven). It's also damn good against ogres who generally don't have the best Ld and really do not like negatives against it.

Personally if I was part of this campaign with my Lizardmen, I wouldn't care. With lore of heavens I just take a couple of skink priests with the signature spell and try and stack it up on a single unit I want to break. I never take a Lore for the 6th spell, it's all the other spells I want.

logan054
12-09-2012, 16:04
All your opponents suffer from leadership issues. Death could actually work very well. However with your elite army I would stay with shadow to debuff and keep losses to a minimum.

Death works very well with WoC, partly for the wizard snipping, WoC don' really need to debuff the enemy, they will generally have superior stats anyways, they usually get screwed by shadow however so taking out the misama spam will give them the upper hand, then of course doom and darkness to reduce the effect of steadfast.

Vissah
12-09-2012, 17:27
Thanx for the help so far everyone.
I played some games with both Lores and the games went good and bad with both Lores that is why I'm still in doubt wich one to use.
I started using Shadow and it went ok, I destroyed Tomb Kings with it. Later I used Death against Ogres and that -1S and -1T bubble is really nice cause noone wants to charge you when that spell goes off. But the remains in play debuffs with Shadow are also really nice.

@russelmoo can you tell me why Shadow is the best Lore?

Havock
12-09-2012, 17:49
That is an odd house rule-

The answer to your question is simple- and it doesn't matter if you have access to the 6th spell or not as it is a superior magic lore to all others- you take Shadow

Agreed, you take Shadow for "the Withering", "the enfeebling foe" and the always-useful signature spell.

Deprive
12-09-2012, 20:31
We did a campaign where we made magic resist actually worth something. For any spell that allowed no save of any kind you could still take a save with magic resist like it was a damaging spell. We also made it so any spell cast on a unit with magic resist had the target casting number increased by their magic resist. This worked really well as everyone could take some protection against the test or die spells and a balance with buffing or hexing a unit.

These are changes everyone demands we use again next campaign

Vissah
13-09-2012, 15:56
Thanx for all the help everyone it is really helpfull :D

The campaign is not gonna be WAC it is gonna be played with not optimal lists and most guys field units that they like, so it's gonna be some good fun.

Von Wibble
13-09-2012, 19:43
I can't think of any lores where I consider the 6th spell to be the best so I see very little difference tbh. Shadow is great for the 3 debuff spells (which come out almost as powerful as the 6th spell for considerably less casting value), and the fact that the signature spell is so so flexible means even bad rolls for spells come out fine.

Tanglewood
14-09-2012, 01:46
Shadow is typically a strong lore and the inet solution but not with the comp on the 6th spell and definitely not if we consider what army you're using. Death is very nice but in this case can be a little one trick pony and matchup dependent. Savage orcs with MR3 and bell skaven can probably laugh off most of the spells and focus on dispelling the D&D. Even if they're through, Skaven will still end up Ld 8 with reroll and SO will ignore the panic. There are other generic things that your opponents might bring along that can negate death lore. Not being a lore master is also a massive disadvantage when running death because if u don't roll D&D, then your enemy can just focus on spirit leech.

The solution is heaven. 3 very strong spells that works well with WOC. Your opponent might stop one or two but you should be able to get something off - either rerolling that good armour save/fluffed attacks (harmonic), debuffing your opponent's attack since none of them have rerolls/eliminating their armour saves (midnight wind) or debuffing the enemy so that they hit you on 5+ which again will hurt since none of them have reroll attacks through the power of ice shard. The -1 on their Ld when they lose that combat is just icing on the cake. The other 2 spells - comet and wind blast are a lot more situational. Comet will be useful if the goblins go gunline or any of your enemy decided he wants to sit back and shoot at you and wind blast is useful in pushing warmarchines off hills and OOS or pushing bunkers/general away from certain combats. One thing you will need in your army is a meat blender unit such as frenzied warriors or extra hand weapon warriors to chew through skaven/goblin blocks. With a little help from the magic, they'll practically never die and will break holes in enemy battle line.

If you're good at rolling dice, get death. If you're good at tactics, take heaven. Shadows are expensive to cast for mostly unnecessary debuffs (you're better WS, better I, decent S/T, good armour anyway). Neither death or shadow allows you to deal with redirectors/chaff which your army will struggle with.

Oh, did I mention that you can also bubble a few of the heaven spells and how cheap they are?

Zeroth
14-09-2012, 10:18
As suggested Death and Shadow both are solid lores. Personally I'd go for Shadow. I don't think WoC has access to this, but under such a house rule, spamming light for S7 or S8 banishment should be very powerful. Not a very well thought comp.

Vissah
14-09-2012, 17:24
I'm gonna take a look and play a game with Heavens to see how that works out but I think I will go with Shadow in the campaign cause almost everyone says that it is the best lore overall.