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arthurfallz
13-09-2012, 15:04
I was relieving some stress blast Orks into red mist last night, playing Space Marine on my PS3. It got to the part where the Captain Titus' squad saw the Ork train-engine-ram-thing. The young marine in his squad exclaims "What in Guilliman's name is that?"

He pronounced it "Gweel-i-man", which looking at the spelling, makes sense. Honestly, every time I read that I must have missed the "i" after the "u" in his name, because I was thinking it was "Gull-i-man".

So, two questions; is this the way it's pronounced? And is there a pronounciation guide anywhere `round for some of the more unique Warhammer 40k names?

MarshalFaust
13-09-2012, 17:50
I always asumed it was meant to be pronounced as if it were a french name. I dont speak french so forgive me if im wrong but wouldnt it be something like Gwee-i-mon

Inquisitor Engel
13-09-2012, 17:57
Gool-ih-mun said quite quickly is how I've always said it.

IIRC that's also how they say it in the BL audio-dramas when it comes up. The one that threw me for a loop is Talos (as in Night Lord) is pronounced "Tay-loss" and not "Tah-lows." It does sound way more sinister though.

And don't listen to anything Leandros says. He sucks. ;)

The_Klobb_Maniac
13-09-2012, 18:04
I always read it as Guile-mun. Like.. guile. nstuf.

FashaTheDog
13-09-2012, 18:25
Roboute Guilliman is properly pronounced as "Rowboat Gilligan." Your welcome, for me clearing up all the confusion :D.

Inquisitor Engel
13-09-2012, 18:35
Roboute Guilliman is properly pronounced as "Rowboat Gilligan." Your welcome, for me clearing up all the confusion :D.

Explains why his three-hour trip to Terra for the Siege went awry...

Hrw-Amen
13-09-2012, 18:50
I and I think anyone I know who has had an opinion on it have always pronounced it Gilly-Man. I have even heard it being pronounced as such in a GW store by staff, therefore that must be correct!

Scalebug
13-09-2012, 19:48
I and I think anyone I know who has had an opinion on it have always pronounced it Gilly-Man. I have even heard it being pronounced as such in a GW store by staff, therefore that must be correct!

"Goullimen", without a pause in the middle, is how Gareth Armstrong pronounces it in the audiobooks ("Rules of Engagement" from one of the anthologies was the one I had on the player).

Cryptek Emissary
13-09-2012, 19:59
Am I the only one now tempted to pronounce it 'Girly-man'? ;)

Yes, I think like a kid sometimes, shudup! :p

Col. Tartleton
13-09-2012, 22:16
Row-Boot Gwheel-Lee-Mah

In French you tend to drop the last letter off words. Roboute should be Row-Boot as you just drop the silent e. Guilliman should be Gwheel-Lee-Mah as you drop the n.

I think the French consensus is quite strong.

Guil ought to rhyme with Keel.

MarshalFaust
13-09-2012, 22:48
although I think the double LL after I is typically(with a long list of exceptions of course) pronounced with a Y sound rather than an L.

Inquisitor Engel
13-09-2012, 23:38
although I think the double LL after I is typically(with a long list of exceptions of course) pronounced with a Y sound rather than an L.

I know it is in Spanish, my French though is not quite so good. I don't speak either language though so... That said, Guilliman and the Ultramarines are a Classical Greek-based (as opposed to historical Greek-based) army. Perhaps someone with a knowledge of ancient Greek could help us out? ;)

FashaTheDog
14-09-2012, 01:19
Inquisitor, you have discovered the Ultramarine's great secret. The Legion was trapped on a planet in the Warp with the Navigator too, a Rogue Trader and his wife, a hololith star, the Schola headmaster and Mary Sue all during the Siege of Terra.

Edit: Touché.

Inquisitor Engel
14-09-2012, 01:31
Inquisitor, you have discovered the Ultramarine's great secret. The Legion was trapped on a planet in the Warp with the Navigator too, a Rogue Trader and his wife, a hololith star, the Schola headmaster and Mary Ann all during the Siege of Terra.

Don'y mean Mary Sue? ;) :D

Balerion
14-09-2012, 05:31
Row-Boot Gwheel-Lee-Mah

In French you tend to drop the last letter off words. Roboute should be Row-Boot as you just drop the silent e. Guilliman should be Gwheel-Lee-Mah as you drop the n.

I think the French consensus is quite strong.

Guil ought to rhyme with Keel.
In French the L's would be silent, and the first two syllables would almost merge into a single syllable that sounds something like "gwee" or "gooey".

"Roboute" would also drop the T, and sound like Row-Boo, rather than Row-Boot.

BasetheRuin
14-09-2012, 06:57
My vote also goes to Gilly-Man. And Roboute definitely with an audiable 't' at the and.

Born Again
14-09-2012, 11:46
I had always pronounced it with a French inflection, somewhat along the lines of "Gwilliman". At the Black Library seminar at GD Australia this year, one of the authors (can't remember which) pronounced it "Gullyman".

Scalebug
14-09-2012, 12:32
Don'y mean Mary Sue? ;) :D

No, because he made a reference to Gilligan's Island, rather than failing to understanding the term "Mary Sue" like appearently some Warseer posters sadly still do... ;)

FashaTheDog
14-09-2012, 12:43
No, because he made a reference to Gilligan's Island, rather than failing to understanding the term "Mary Sue" like appearently some Warseer posters sadly still do... ;)

No he was right, I was making 40K references and a joke at the same time, so Mary Sue was quite an appropriate gag because of the number of people who associate "Mary Sue" with the Ultramarines.

Gingerwerewolf
14-09-2012, 13:22
Ive always gone by the Roh-boot Gilly-man version. But I speak the Queens English with received pronunciation so god knows!

But there are so many versions of this its untrue, as most of the names and places are based on other or old languages.

Along the same line most people pronounce Adeptus Arbites wrong.

Its pronounced Ah-dep-tus Ar-bi-tay not Ar-bites as its Latin...

AndrewGPaul
14-09-2012, 14:08
I know it should be three syllables in "Arbites", but I was under the impression that you pronounce the "s"; no silent letters in Latin.

On the other had, it's dog latin as a stand in for an alien language 38,000 years in the future - pronounce it how you like. :)

Gingerwerewolf
14-09-2012, 14:16
I know it should be three syllables in "Arbites", but I was under the impression that you pronounce the "s"; no silent letters in Latin.

On the other had, it's dog latin as a stand in for an alien language 38,000 years in the future - pronounce it how you like. :)



Quite true but I didnt know how to phoneticaly write the very subtle s sound at the end.

And quite right - its why I was using Arbites as an example of more words in 40k that need a pronunciation guide! ;-)

Scalebug
14-09-2012, 15:43
No he was right, I was making 40K references and a joke at the same time, so Mary Sue was quite an appropriate gag because of the number of people who associate "Mary Sue" with the Ultramarines.

No, people associate it so doesn't mean they are using it right... Mary sue, by its very definition, do not apply to characters written by the 'canonical' authors of a work, no matter the level of (perceived or actual) favouritism. It is about awkward fanfic.

It was virally popular on Warseer a few years back to call Space Marines (particularly Ultramarines) "mary Sues", but people eventually understood they were using the term wrong, and it died off... It's like people calling any change a "retcon", because they saw someone on warseer (who saw someone on warseer...) using the term, correctly or not, and never reflected over it's correct usage... That one is still around though...

/Popculture term police out... :)

arthurfallz
14-09-2012, 16:13
No, people associate it so doesn't mean they are using it right... Mary sue, by its very definition, do not apply to characters written by the 'canonical' authors of a work, no matter the level of (perceived or actual) favouritism. It is about awkward fanfic.

It was virally popular on Warseer a few years back to call Space Marines (particularly Ultramarines) "mary Sues", but people eventually understood they were using the term wrong, and it died off... It's like people calling any change a "retcon", because they saw someone on warseer (who saw someone on warseer...) using the term, correctly or not, and never reflected over it's correct usage... That one is still around though...

Wikipedia's definition matches the one I recall reading on TVTropes;

A Mary Sue (sometimes just Sue), in literary criticism and particularly in fan fiction, is a fictional character with overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as a wish-fulfillment fantasy for the author or reader. It is generally accepted as a character whose positive aspects overwhelm their other traits until they become one-dimensional. While the label "Mary Sue" itself originates from a parody of this type of character, most characters labelled "Mary Sues" by readers are not intended by authors as such. Male Mary Sues are often dubbed "Gary Stu", "Larry Stu", "Marty Stu", or similar names.

While the term is generally limited to fan-created characters, and its most common usage today occurs within the fan fiction community or in reference to fan fiction, original characters in role-playing games or literary canon are also sometimes criticized as being "Mary Sues" or "canon Sues" if they dominate the spotlight or are too unrealistic or unlikely in other ways. One example of this criticism is Wesley Crusher from Star Trek: The Next Generation.

I think the Ultramarines, in particular, come off very "Mary-Sue-ish" to a lot of 40k fans. While we might not accuse Oliver Twist or Huckleberry Finn of being Mary Sue's because of the age / quality of the work, more recent works in the "age of author-reference" can be accussed of being "Mary-Sues" of the author. I personally think the term should remain, as you suggest Scalebug, focused on fan-fiction characters. Could we call Frodo, Sam or Aragorn Mary-Sue character because Tolkien clearly liked them and some people don't? If that's the case, why not Huckleberry Finn?

Moving back to the topic, thanks a lot people for that guide on Gilligan :D

Wintermute
14-09-2012, 18:55
Not this yet again.

Thread Closed

Wintermute