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Battlehonk
16-09-2012, 22:47
My apologies for an ignorant question. I'm returning to Warhammer after a 10+ year break and still making my way through the rules.

Does it matter where characters are in units? It appears that most people place them in the corners.

It appears models can choose who they strike so a corner placement for a mage might limit the number of attacks received to one (assuming no flank charge).

Moss
17-09-2012, 02:51
Right. You would put more delicate/important (bsb) heroes in a corner to minimize attacks against him.

Even killy heroes are best in the corner since you can move them to the center if necessary once combat starts. And if you want to protect them, they can stay put.

AntaresCD
17-09-2012, 16:59
Another benefit of corner placement is that if they challenge from a corner and the unit they are facing has wider frontage (or is sticking out over that side) then the enemy looses a file's worth of attacks since they have nowhere legal to direct their attacks.

warplock
17-09-2012, 18:54
Right. You would put more delicate/important (bsb) heroes in a corner to minimize attacks against him.

Even killy heroes are best in the corner since you can move them to the center if necessary once combat starts. And if you want to protect them, they can stay put.

Can you? I didn't think you could move around once you're in base contact, unless it's for a challenge. Where does it say you can do this?

AntaresCD
17-09-2012, 19:40
You can move a character within a unit in the following ways:
-As part of a normal move (even when the unit doesn't move, in fact, but the unit counts as moving anyway); note you cannot do this as part of a charge move
-Using Make Way! note that the character must not be in base to base with an enemy for a Make Way! to be executed
-By reforming (normal or combat)
-As the result of a challenge (accepting model moves if possible, challenger otherwise)

Liability
18-09-2012, 13:21
It also means that when your wizards roll badly on the Miscast table then they'll take less people with them.

tmarichards
18-09-2012, 15:00
There are a couple of other things that haven't been mentioned yet so I'll chime in with them.

Having your character on the corner of a unit is good defensively, but you also have to be aware of a couple of drawbacks- the first is that if they unit is flank charged, the mage will be getting hit. The second is that if someone is canny with their own character/champion placement when redirecting, you can end up only being able to attack their champion with your super-killy character.

So, whilst putting a character on the corner of a unit is good defensively, don't get drawn into the habit of always doing it without looking at the possible repercussions.

stillwater
18-09-2012, 16:31
"The second is that if someone is canny with their own character/champion placement when redirecting, you can end up only being able to attack their champion with your super-killy character."

How is that? Even though a champion follows most of the rules a character does, he is in fact not a character. So while you can purposefully target him he is still part of a regement and as such you can opt to target his regiment with the attacks of your super-killy character. Or am I wrong in this?

tmarichards
18-09-2012, 16:42
Wounds on the champion explicitly do not carry over onto the rest of the unit, so if you attack him you can only kill him- and if you're only in base contact with him, you can only attack him. It's part of the reason why Bret character lances and Gutstars are so hard to kill, you either have to attack 2 hard as nails characters or do just a couple of wounds to the champion.

Majinmonkey
18-09-2012, 22:53
So correct me if i'm wrong, but command models don't get displaced by characters correct?

This means that in a unit only three models wide, the characters go in the second rank as long as the command models survive.

Now this may be irrelevant to most armies, but MI care about this. I play Ogre Kingdoms and am looking forward to getting this sorted out.

I know the command models can be displaced with a make way move in combat, but the question is, do characters get supporting attacks? I know they don't have to make way, and the butcher doesn't hit any harder than a bull, and against some enemies his T5 might not be enough.

tmarichards
19-09-2012, 01:25
They get supporting attacks the same as any other model in their position, so for monstrous infantry that would be capped at 3

Moss
19-09-2012, 01:35
So correct me if i'm wrong, but command models don't get displaced by characters correct?
Correct.


This means that in a unit only three models wide, the characters go in the second rank as long as the command models survive.
Correct.

Majinmonkey
19-09-2012, 01:42
Hmmm, well that's good to know.
that means I can hide great weapon characters in the second rank and not need to move up if their my wizards anyway

Antianara
11-10-2012, 04:36
So correct me if i'm wrong, but command models don't get displaced by characters correct? This means that in a unit only three models wide, the characters go in the second rank as long as the command models survive.Now this may be irrelevant to most armies, but MI care about this. I play Ogre Kingdoms and am looking forward to getting this sorted out.I know the command models can be displaced with a make way move in combat, but the question is, do characters get supporting attacks? I know they don't have to make way, and the butcher doesn't hit any harder than a bull, and against some enemies his T5 might not be enough.Wait so does this mean that when Bretonnians set up their cavalry, the paladins should be in second rank? Do they have to be?

AntaresCD
11-10-2012, 16:58
Wait so does this mean that when Bretonnians set up their cavalry, the paladins should be in second rank? Do they have to be?
Assuming you're referring to Bretonnians using a Lance Formation, no. They have a specific exception in the rules for Lance Formation that causes command models to be displaced from the front rank by characters (and puts casters in the middle column, starting with the second rank).

Qupakoco
11-10-2012, 19:07
Along those lines, Lizardmen can also use this to their advantage with a Slann in a block of Saurus. So if you run your guys 5-wide, take Full Command and a Scar-Veteran, the Slann is then forced to the 2nd rank. Makes for an slightly cheaper TG unit if you throw the Crown of Command in there and you still get rank bonuses.


The second is that if someone is canny with their own character/champion placement when redirecting, you can end up only being able to attack their champion with your super-killy character.


That sounds pretty silly. That would mean that the Champ and Hero would be the only models touching. You can still attack corner to corner, so I don't see that being an issue.

SevenSins
11-10-2012, 21:36
That sounds pretty silly. That would mean that the Champ and Hero would be the only models touching. You can still attack corner to corner, so I don't see that being an issue.

Cavalry with a champ on the end getting flank charged gets some of the same going on, whitout corner issues so to speak. Of course if the unit attacking contains models with different initiative values (the super-killy character for instance) they will get to kill the champ and then kick the unit