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S_A_T_S
18-09-2012, 22:35
I started a new WHQ campaign at the weekend. We managed 3 dungeons on Sunday, before the host decided he wanted to play some Descent 2 (obviously missed being GM/Overlord). Anyway, our new party is made up of Bretonnian Knight, Elf Ranger Mage, Dwarf and Quarg Hunter.

The Quarg Hunter is a new one on me, but they pointed out it was bundled in with the collection of WHQ articles I had given them previously, so apparently I'm the one to blame ;) I left for home with two main thoughts on the character:

I find the rules (http://www.spikeinthepit.my-php.net/Warriors/QuargHunter_NicWester.htm)a little out of balance in places, and wondered what you guys thought. It's no where near bad enough to be completely wrong, but just niggles at me. I'll let you read it and put my main annoyances in spoilers below so I can see if you agree. Don't get me wrong, it's a fun and very WHQ idea for a character, but, like I did with the Dwarf Brewmaster, I feel it needs a bit of tweaking to tone it down a tad.
Having just bought a couple more hero models to choose from, I was wondering how to do a Quarg Hunter, and realised I actually have almost half an Empire Milita set sitting on a bookcase, and some cool extras from the dwarf miner set (backpacks, explosives, lanterns and a caged snotling) that could combine to make a cool Hunter mini. The addition of some belt pieces (http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Bretonnian-Man-at-Arms-Accessories-/00/s/NjYxWDEwMjQ=/$%28KGrHqFHJEwE-uPPtU5hBPtnTj%28eeg~~60_12.JPG) from the Bretonnian militia sprue would make him really look like a woodland hunter (the club could be painted up as bells on a stick), and with a swirls (http://www.flickr.com/photos/peryburge/4571196996/lightbox/)and whorls (http://www.chronoscapes.com/journal/2012/7/2/swirls-and-whorls-vortex-time.html) (or at least brightly coloured paint job) he will look suitably silly and fun to make me less irritated by those rule issues. Also, after seeing the cool bases Modhail has been making, I thought putting some green stuff on the base and adding a quarg paw print to it, so it looks like the hunter is actually tracking a beast, would make the base look much more interesting, and make the whole thing come together. Maybe when I get my next paycheck I'll cough up for the extra bits...


My main issues were:
T4 at BL1 seems far too hard for a human, even if he is a hunter. This guy is supposed to be a stealthy hunter, and the 4+ BS combined with the cool crossbow is enough, especially when he is allowed to wear any armour the Barbarian can. Someone couldn't choose between the elf and the dwarf, and decided to take both...
The hunting table 6 result - so he jumps from winning 2D6x10g on a 5 to 4D6x100 at 6?!?! 2D6x100 is more than enough. This one seems especially insane to me as after our first game, the hunter was behind everyone else (not too surprising since he got caught in a corner against a horde of centaurs and beastmen and was on the floor for almost the entire combat), but as the rest of us are discussing how close we are to leveling up and if we can sell to get there, the Hunter player pipes up "I just got 2000g off a 1/6 table, so I can level up AND buy some armour". Let's just say, my response included some... choice phrases.
A more minor worry - those crossbow skills: as they are in addition to normal skill rolls, are they a little over powered? I suppose he can roll a 1, and it does address the issue of ranged characters being at a disadvantage. He also can't use picked up melee weapons on a 1-2, which balances it futher, but do those extra skills go too far? I'm really not sure if they do, but I may as well ask.

Waagh Rider
21-09-2012, 11:07
Never come across that character before! What issues is he in? Nice idea - I agree with you about the vast amounts of cash from a table, rather unbalances the party doesn't it?

bobthebobish
22-09-2012, 05:23
The character needs editing for sure. Not sure about him being either slightly overpowered or horribly underpowered. The big problem I see is two fold.

1 his main weaponry is ranged weapons right? Well if he is EVER pinned he can not fire (unlike the elf) and not be adjacent to a monster during a combat is fairly rare for someone other than the spell caster. Though he does get to a 1+ pinn roll later on do realize that a roll of a 1 still fails due to him not having an Auto escape pinning ability.

2 All of his 'armor' adds to his toughness. This is a huge problem for balance as there are few things that the monsters have that ignores toughness. Thus an armor with +2 toughness is loads better than one with +2 armor in the mid to late game and there is room for the quarg hunter to get to some obscene toughness through those rules.

He could be fun though with a few tweaks for sure so try adding your own rules in. Pretty sure he wasn't a published character but he's no where near as boring and or worthless as some of the published characters ;)

Littlemonk
28-09-2012, 17:21
The character needs editing for sure. Not sure about him being either slightly overpowered or horribly underpowered. The big problem I see is two fold.

1 his main weaponry is ranged weapons right? Well if he is EVER pinned he can not fire (unlike the elf) and not be adjacent to a monster during a combat is fairly rare for someone other than the spell caster. Though he does get to a 1+ pinn roll later on do realize that a roll of a 1 still fails due to him not having an Auto escape pinning ability.

2 All of his 'armor' adds to his toughness. This is a huge problem for balance as there are few things that the monsters have that ignores toughness. Thus an armor with +2 toughness is loads better than one with +2 armor in the mid to late game and there is room for the quarg hunter to get to some obscene toughness through those rules.

He could be fun though with a few tweaks for sure so try adding your own rules in. Pretty sure he wasn't a published character but he's no where near as boring and or worthless as some of the published characters ;)


Bob, your response is extremely confusing to me. First off, the Elf cannot fire his bow while pinned. NO ONE can fire a ranged weapon while adjacent to a Monster. Just because the Elf is "never pinned" doesn't mean that he can fire his bow while adjacent to a Monster. See the online FAQ (http://users.frii.com/evil/wq/archive/wq_faq.html#elf) about the Elf.

Secondly, Armour does add to Toughness, but does not change the natural Toughness. There is no armour that adds to "Armour" as that is not one of the Characteristics in Warhammer Quest, although Toughness for Armour are used in Combat and for traps, etc. So Monsters who ignore Toughness do not get to ignore Toughness from Armour - only natural Toughness.

And Quarg Hunter is a fan-based Warrior that was never published, but is an entertaining idea. I agree that it needs much work to be comparable to the official and semi-official ones.

If you haven't already checked out my Warrior revisions, you're in for a real treat! Check out my board in my signature.

S_A_T_S
30-09-2012, 20:25
Thanks for the replies, guys. I'm glad people agree with me on those tweaks. Maybe I'll find a copy of those rules and rewrite them soon.

Little Monk: I think the confusion is over the "never pinned" pinned wording. The elf IS pinned when a monster is adjacent to him, but he automatically succeeds, and doesn't need to roll, when he tries to BREAK from pinning (we call it Auto-Break rather than Never Pinned).

Was hoping for some WHQ this weekend, but the Quarg Hunter player moved into his new house Saturday so I took the opportunity to start work on the Hunter. Been looking at the pieces I have and noticed that there are two choices of crossbow in the militia set - just fired or loading. I want one that is loaded and held ready so that he looks like he is stalking the beast with weapon ready. I pondered out loud that maybe I should cut the string off and make my own with greenstuff, to which my wife raised her eyebrow and said "No way can you make one that small". CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!

https://i.imgur.com/ZilzFnA.jpg
Still need to add a bolt (planning to use one of the carpet pins I use for pinning, just gotta check the size). What do you think?

While I had the green stuff out, thought I'd try out making a paw print for him to be tracking as well:
https://i.imgur.com/8JmAKUI.jpg

bobthebobish
01-10-2012, 04:14
Bob, your response is extremely confusing to me. First off, the Elf cannot fire his bow while pinned. NO ONE can fire a ranged weapon while adjacent to a Monster. Just because the Elf is "never pinned" doesn't mean that he can fire his bow while adjacent to a Monster. See the online FAQ (http://users.frii.com/evil/wq/archive/wq_faq.html#elf) about the Elf.

Secondly, Armour does add to Toughness, but does not change the natural Toughness. There is no armour that adds to "Armour" as that is not one of the Characteristics in Warhammer Quest, although Toughness for Armour are used in Combat and for traps, etc. So Monsters who ignore Toughness do not get to ignore Toughness from Armour - only natural Toughness.

And Quarg Hunter is a fan-based Warrior that was never published, but is an entertaining idea. I agree that it needs much work to be comparable to the official and semi-official ones.

If you haven't already checked out my Warrior revisions, you're in for a real treat! Check out my board in my signature.

Sorry been playing with revised rules for too long apparently. We had to add armor for warriors (it DOES exist for monsters in the base game rules) because far to many conflicts came up with things that 'ignore armor' (ie does it it ignore this effect and that effect or just the bonuses to toughness etc.) Not familiar with the faq is that from GW?

Woe to the elf though as without being able to fire while pinned he is essentially a crappy version of the barbarian instead of a sniper. I think this quarg hunter should get some kind of ability to let him fire while pinned honestly though. In later levels battles (at least ones that you survive) rarely last past turn 1 so being able to utilize the crossbow at all times would be essential to the feel of quargy.

Littlemonk
03-10-2012, 20:38
Sorry been playing with revised rules for too long apparently. We had to add armor for warriors (it DOES exist for monsters in the base game rules) because far to many conflicts came up with things that 'ignore armor' (ie does it it ignore this effect and that effect or just the bonuses to toughness etc.) Not familiar with the faq is that from GW?

Woe to the elf though as without being able to fire while pinned he is essentially a crappy version of the barbarian instead of a sniper. I think this quarg hunter should get some kind of ability to let him fire while pinned honestly though. In later levels battles (at least ones that you survive) rarely last past turn 1 so being able to utilize the crossbow at all times would be essential to the feel of quargy.


Perhaps that ability to fire point blank can be gained as a Skill?

S_A_T_S
06-10-2012, 10:58
Got a phone call last night asking if I was up for playing WHQ on Sunday, so made sure I finished putting together the Quarg Hunter last night

https://i.imgur.com/Kkhc29h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/yrkEJ7d.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/BrpIgTW.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ggxwRnf.jpg
The pin worked. I just had to cut it down a little and put tiny-weeny triangles of blister pack packaging on the end. I'm quite pleased (the superglue has lumped up a bit, but I won't be able to tell how bad it is until after I spray it).

Purplebeard
15-11-2012, 17:58
I like your conversion; he looks serious, as if he is quietly stalking his quarry.

Daemonslave
15-11-2012, 19:05
I'm a big fan - it looks cracking, but maybe needs something on the shoulders? - it looks slightly empty compared to the rest. some sort of pelt perhaps?

I dunno, perhaps it's just me and with a bit of paint I will be shown the error of my ways!

Great work though, I can't wait to see this guy come to life!

Shas'El Tael
23-11-2012, 07:27
Really liking that SATS, the use of the dwarf backpack works surprisingly well with the Empire torso :)

The empty shoulders could be replaced by creating some slim straps for the backpack? They don't scream a need, but that extra detail could deal with two in one?

- Seb

S_A_T_S
03-04-2013, 15:59
Well, having moved house and being off painting for a while (I need to be in just the right mood, or I get distracted by PC games), as well as bad weather conditions, I've finally take a little time to find a half decent place to take some photos. I finished the Quarg Hunter months ago, just not got round to taking pics - I don't have any decent artificial light so have to wait for some direct sunshine to get photos that don't look too discoloured. Anyway, this is what I came up with:

https://i.imgur.com/kdclQi4.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/CEGgxcL.jpg
I love the pheasant piece. There were loads around where I used to live, so everytime I look at this it makes me think back and smile. The stick with the metal end I imagined as bells the Hunter uses to attract the Quargs with pretty noises.

https://i.imgur.com/MPQuLHf.jpg
Bolt and string came out OK, and I think the simple highlights on the arms look pretty good - I'm relatively new to highlighting ;-)

https://i.imgur.com/WggwbDH.jpg
I'm really pleased with how the Quargskin boots came out. I wanted a swirls and whirls pattern as described in the WHQ books. The first attempt was blobbing colours down and mixing them gently with the brush. It looked... horrible, partly due to too many bright colours. What I did discover though is that the white I used (which was quite heavily watered down) suspended the other colours and kept them separate. I reduced the colours to ones I wouldn't normally expect on a hunter (pink, purple and bright blue), covered the boots in watered down white, blobbed on watered down colours then carefully mixed them with the end of a toothpick. What do you guys think? I'd love to see some alternative quarg skins.

https://i.imgur.com/fAs7YOp.jpg
I built up the sand around the footprint so that I could paint it with highlighting around the edges of the print then put a couple of layers of watered down PVA over it to try and get a wet/puddle effect in the mud.

What do you guys think? I'm pretty pleased. I don't think the shoulders look barren this way, as there is enough detail across the rest of the model, and the straps on the torso look like they are holding the backpack themselves.

Purplebeard
04-04-2013, 14:35
Ah I like him. The 'swirls and whorls' on his boots remind me of the first time I ever painted a figure - I tried with my mother's tube Daler Rowney acrylics (these are nearly solid if you've never used them) on the marines from Spcae Crusade. It was fun, but those models were horrible :evilgrin:

Used in context though (i.e. here), I think that the marbled effect can come off really nicely, and you've certainly achieved a good result. You should be proud of yourself. Its really interesting to see how you've done it step-by-step aswell, because I think that sometimes maybe people don't appreciate the effort that goes into these projects.

I love how he looks so serious and tough and moody - all the way down to the wacky quargskin boots. If I had made a Quarg Hunter, I'd have done it in a totally different way, but it's always great to see what other somebody else makes of the same idea.

benvoliothefirst
05-04-2013, 13:17
Those boots are *******' amazing. Great job. I love the effect. The whole model looks awesome. I can't believe the effort you put into the crossbow string/bolt, it's really impressive.

The footprint on the model's base is a great touch.