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harlequin76
25-09-2012, 18:46
Hi,

I have a local tournament coming up, and I was wondering what you guys would think about this list I am building.


I am stuck when it comes to HQ and my chariots, I have a fast army and I am using all my daemons except my khrone ones. I am not sure if to bring in khrone bloodletters with skulltaker to make a "scary unit" while taking off fire from an exalted chariot, screamers and horrors for example? pink horrors seem a must since they are shooty and can remove tanks.

HQ:

???


TROOPS:

10 Demonettes 140 points

10 Pink Horrors + changeling + chaos Icon + bolt of tzeentch 210 points

5 pink horrors + bolt 80 points

5 pink horrors + bolt 80 points


FAST ATTACK:
3 screamers of tzeentch 75pts
3 screamers of tzeentch 75pts
5 seekers of slaanesh + chaos Icon 110

Heavy Support:
Here I am not sure if to take to small chariots or and exalted one?


I would really like to hear your opinions on where should I go with this. the models I didn't use so far is skulltaker, 20 bloodletters, masque, herald of slaanesh.

Thanks!
Harlequin76

commanddarksun
25-09-2012, 18:53
personally i like greater deamons for hq and soul grinders for hs but everyone has a different view on it.

Furls
25-09-2012, 21:23
Unless your screamers are tank hunting I would merge them into 1 larger unit otherwise they may not make the progress you want in assaults.

In order to combat flyers you need a daemon prince in HS for vector strikes (or with MOT with bolt and gaze)
OR go for a Lord of Change or Kairos to fulfill the same roll.

Chem-Dog
25-09-2012, 22:27
I'm not sure how much utility a unit of seekers is over the addition of another unit of Daemonnettes on foot, they might be a bit faster but fleet infantry with no shooting attacks has all the speed it needs anyway. Plus the foot 'nettes are scoring.

The Masque is pretty handy to have in an army and she allows you, to some degree, to dictate when and where assaults happen. She's also pretty hard to kill as she has a 3++ save. T3 will die sooner or later, but the Masque is usually later.
With one herald in your HQ it'd be silly not to include a second, pick as you see fit but I think the Slaaneshi Herald mounted on an Exalted Chariot is a good investment.

A flying Greater Daemon has to be considered a pretty solid investment if there's a likelihood of encountering flyers. The Tzeench Daemon has a slight advantage in the survivability stakes but the 'Thirster is still one of the most potent creatures in the game. I've I weren't a dedicated Slaanesh-only Daemon player, I'd pick a Changer of Ways.

Your Elites section could offer a few useful options, Flamers have to be one of the nastiest units to consider charging now, each one in a unit generates D3 wounds on a 4+ with no saves, a potential nightmare for fans of the MSU play style and given that they do that with a template each in each shooting phae, they'll be a high priority (and can bone a vehicles just as easily).
Fiends deserve a mention as they are still ridiculously awesome for their points, with the ability to kill vehicles with glancing hits their S4 rending storm of attacks can tear up all but the heaviest vehicles, and practically any infantry you care to name, if they do hit a fight they can't handle, they can use the combat as a slingshot to something more acceptable using hit & run.

Again, I play Slaanesh Only and don't like including anything that's not Marked as a follower of the Dark prince, so my only HS choice (before those chariots came along) was the Prince. A DP of Slaanesh can be a holy terror thanks to his access to Slaanesh abilities like Aura of Aquiesence and Soporific Musk. He can come with wings too. Needless to say, he's pretty good at beating on vehicles.


Finally. I don't know if your tournament is using Allies, but you could do a lot worse than to include a small allied contingent of Chaos Marines, to give you a few on-the-table icons to start with. Shouldn't be too much of a hardship to equip a couple of squads with a role that suits your strengths and weaknesses. Oh, and as far as I know, people still love Sky shields for Daemons, though I am personally unconvinced that highlighting the arrival point of my Daemons like that is a good idea.

harlequin76
26-09-2012, 08:13
thanks for the good points, but unfortunately I don't have many of the nasty things mentioned above, I will probably get them in the future.

As I said the tournament is a 1000 points so I don't know how much I can shove in.

HQ:

Masque 100 points(with demonette squad)


TROOPS:

10 Demonettes 140 points

10 Pink Horrors + changeling + chaos Icon + bolt of tzeentch 210 points

5 pink horrors + bolt 80 points(Deep strikers)

5 pink horrors + bolt 80 points(Deep Strikers)


FAST ATTACK:
6 screamers of tzeentch 150 points
5 seekers of slaanesh + chaos Icon 110
2 Hellflayers of slaanesh 120 points

HEAVY SUPPORT:
-----

Heavy Support:
Here I am not sure if to take to small chariots or and exalted one?


If I get two small chariots, I get + 5 attacks on charge from another exalted alluress, and the hall points are the same in theory, so I have a chance to + 4 attacks if 2 chariots survive, correct me if I am wrong, or also just take 2 hellflayers(which in the same theory will do way more damage on the charge, than 1 big one)

Question about the masque, if she uses pavne of slaanesh 3 times on the same unit can I in theory move them 18"?

also should I reduce the slaanesh quantity and bring in 10 bloodletters + skulltaker?

Thanks,
Harlequin76

CrownAxe
26-09-2012, 08:17
Masque isn't an independent character so can't join a unit of demonettes.

and no, you can't triple pavane a unit for combined movement. You can't even roll multiple hits to pick the highest for the distance. You have to fire them at separate units to make them useful.

harlequin76
26-09-2012, 10:39
Really? if so I am still stuck with getting a commander for the army :S, I don't want to leave him out in the open and I don't have enough points for a greater daemon of some sort.

any ideas then? maybe remove the steeds 110 points and add a bigger boss? although I don't want to spend more than 100 points on a commander, a HQ shouldn't be more than 10% of the total army points in my opinion.

CrownAxe
26-09-2012, 10:46
Frankly as far as getting any sort of herald is concerned the only good ones are Tze Herald w/ Chariot and upgrades, Blue Scribes, and Skulltaker on a mount. The cheapest being the Tze Chariot at 110 but you'll have to scratch build it since it lakes a model.

Every other herald is pretty much just a slightly better version of their troop which you pay way too much for.

Also don't bother with any of the slaanesh chariots.

harlequin76
26-09-2012, 14:35
The main problem I feel when I want to take a leader, is that he will be or useless,or a point waste.

I think I will give up on the steeds and bring in bloodletters with skulltaker.

Baaltor
26-09-2012, 16:38
...'nettes are scoring.


I thought "'nette" lists were bad.

I'd make your squads favoured numbers, most of them are close, and you get a lot of kudos from fellow chaos players for that.

harlequin76
26-09-2012, 19:44
I don't think going in small numbers of 6 will make sense, or 12 pink horrors...

I am also confused why is a 60 point chariot not worth it? on a charge it can be a bit devastating, 2d6 st 4 ap - rending, all wounds + to attacks , + 5 attacks of allures for only 60 points.

youngsamwise
26-09-2012, 22:09
although I don't want to spend more than 100 points on a commander, a HQ shouldn't be more than 10% of the total army points in my opinion.

Based on your list and this comment, I have to wonder if you have used daemons in 40k before. You kind of have to forget everything you know about list-building and playing other armies to work with daemons. The greater daemons aren't necessarily the best things in the book, but they are the best things in the book at what they do. Specifically, a Lord of Change and a Bloodthirster. Remember, the idea is to hold an objective, contest the rest and win the remaining points of linebreaker (easy for daemons) slay the warlord (hence a hard to kill LOC or thirster) and first blood (not usually a problem for daemons who always shoot first - though mishaps can give this away.) So you don't need many troops and you can afford a great HQ who will serve a number of roles.

I put together two sample tzeentch lists:



1 lord of change w/ master of sorcery
5 horrors w/ bolt
5 horrors w/ bolt
6 horrors w/ bolt
6 screamers
6 screamers
3 flamers
3 flamers


You can take changeling instead of master of sorcery on the Lord of Change, but MOS allows him to vector+bolt+gaze in the same turn. The Lord of Change is a great Warlord with his 3++ save and FMC rules. Probably the best pure anti-flyer unit in the codex which is important to have these days.



1 tzeentch herald on disk
1 tzeentch herald on disk
6 flamers
6 flamers
6 screamers
6 screamers
5 horrors w/ bolt
5 horrors w/bolt
5 horrors w/bolt and changeling


The two heralds are only there to put in the middle of your flamer units on the deepstrike, allowing for more templates. After that, they are ablative wounds to keep flamers alive, giving you the cheap HQ that you wanted. You can find the points to give the heralds a bolt and we are legion, but they start getting pricey and don't do enough IMHO unless on a chariot (and lose IC status defeating the point) so I just kept them cheap. Alternatively, just take the blue scribes who will accomplish all of this for you on the deepstrike, and then leave the unit next turn to cast pavane. Slay the warlord will be an easy get for your opponent if you rely on the heralds.

Both lists use mid-sized screamer units which are easily one of the best things in our codex nowadays. It never hurts to take more than six screamers, but I wouldn't take fewer than six.

As for other units mentioned in this thread:

Fiends are still great, but take 5 or 6 of them always. S5 rending at I5 is awesome, but terrain is an issue.
Seekers are still okay, but use double-digits of them always. Boatloads of rending at I6 with grenades and hammer of wrath is aweseom, but terrain checks plus overwatch really whittle them down.
Daemonettes are not good. I would take five in a unit for objective holders only, but obviously plaguebearers are going to be much better at this for only five more points total.
Princes are awfully expensive by the time you make them usable (wings + mark + gifts.) They aren't something I would invest in at 1000 pts.
Soul Grinders have big bullseyes on their chests, don't get a daemon save for whatever reason, have a huge footprint when deepstriking, and hullpoints make them strictly worse than they used to be.
Skulltaker and his bloodletter friends are awfully slow. Skulltaker mounted with juggernaut friends is still pretty good because they can take some fire unlike bloodletters.
A slaanesh herald can be a fun IC to join to seekers and give the unit hit and run.





I am also confused why is a 60 point chariot not worth it? Because they don't have enough armour and hull points, are open-topped, have to deepstrike in your opponents face to be useful later, and are utterly useless the turn they arrive. If you can keep them alive, they can be good, but that is a huge if. I would rather have fiends or seekers do this for me and still be able to contest objectives.




Oh, and as far as I know, people still love Sky shields for Daemons, though I am personally unconvinced that highlighting the arrival point of my Daemons like that is a good idea.

Well, they are great right up until the moment your opponent goes first, infiltrates a unit on the landing pad, and then furls it during their first turn. Now you can't use it, and they get a 4++ save on their scouts. Like a defense line, it's much better if you have allies to hold down the fort. Otherwise, you get a quad gun to the face.