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View Full Version : 6th ed balance of the Grey Knight Codex



NixonAsADaemonPrince
25-09-2012, 20:29
As the title suggests, I've been thinking about the balance of the GK codex in the 6th ed environment, both internal and external. Before I launch into my thoughts, I should first mention that these are just my own opinions based on my analysis, observations and experiences, I'm not trying to represent the wargaming community on this matter or anything ridiculous like that; everyone is entitled to their own opinion after all.*

Right then. In 5th ed, there were quite a few units I would consider to be significantly underpowered/over-costed, and of course there were some which were the opposite. Now in 6th, that list has shrunk considerably for me. I'll go through the army:

The HQs are generally fine, Stern, Brother Captains and Inquisitor Valeria are pretty weak, and Coteaz is a bit cheap, but on the whole pretty good. I'll happily use the rest of them and not feel like I'm hamstringing myself, while also not being unfair on my opponent.

In Elites, the Venerable Dread is now pretty overpriced, and the Assassins are very hard to use well, with the Culexus and *possibly the Eversor not really working at all. The Techmarine is fine though, bringing some interesting possibilities to the table, and now that transports aren't what they were I feel that Purifiers have been reigned in nicely. With Wound Allocation a thing of the past, I now reckon that Paladins are quite acceptable, being survivable but no longer obscenely so.*

Henchmen are a bit of a mixed bag, what with things like the the Arco-Flagellants, Banishers and Daemonhosts being quite poor, and Warrior Acolytes with Boltguns costing the same as Guardsmen but with firepower as lethal as Veterans. And the Plasma Guns are a bit too cheap. The rest though are pretty reasonable, given the right circumstances.*

Troops are pretty good, Strike Marines are fine with their abilities perfectly offset by their high points cost. I think Terminators might be little pricy, but if they get in Assault they're very good.*

Dedicated Transports are reasonable, definitely still usable but by no means the practical auto-include in many lists.*

Fast Attack now makes sense in 6th, Stormravens are nasty but pricy, and with transports being less efficient the extra manoeuvrability of Interceptors comes into my own.*

Heavy Support is alright, Purgations' weapon options are a little too pricy, but Dreadnoughts have been balanced quite well I think, and Dreadknights are a strong but reasonable choice. I reckon that Land Raiders are a little pricy, but not significantly.

So there you are, I thought this was worth posting so some fresh discussion about an oft discussed codex can arise. And a very imaginative poll to have fun with.*

Mr Zoat
25-09-2012, 20:45
Coteaz isn't a bit cheap. He exists solely to give you more henchmen. I all of the games I have taken him I don't think that he has actually achieved anything.
The no-assault thing and clarification of what counts as a psyker makes nonVindicare Assassins useless.
I don't see how the fact that transports can reliably move an extra 6" a turn is reining them in.
Hardly anyone takes infantry heavy weapons other than psycannons.
None of that is news.

Removal of wound allocation abuse is a slight improvement, and assault ramps have become more useful. The only really big change is Fortitude now being costed about right. The big problems are still there.

MagicHat
25-09-2012, 21:07
I would say that Coteaz is better then the popular bog standard Librarian, so I am not sure why you think Coteaz isn't a bit cheap Mr Zoat.



Troops are pretty good, Strike Marines are fine with their abilities perfectly offset by their high points cost. I think Terminators might be little pricy, but if they get in Assault they're very good.*

Eh.
C: SM squad: Sergeant have an inferior weapon and they can have a Cyclone missile launcher.
GK terminator: All of them can have Demon hammers, cheaper and better assault cannon, grenades, the squad is scoring and they have the Aegis and demon hunter thing. Oh, and hammerhand, for S10.

Mr Zoat
26-09-2012, 19:02
A Librarian with better WS, S, T, who can take a Force Weapon that strikes at Initiative and who has the ability to take Vortex of Doom by asking nicely rather than chancing a roll on the disciplines table. Plus, Librarians can be customised for any support role you want. Where do you put Coteaz? Leave him with a shooting unit for I've Been Expecting You? Good luck ever shooting anything. An assault unit for Hammerhand? A regular Inquisitor with Terminator Armour and Hammerhand is cheaper and just as effective. He isn't terrible, he just doesn't have a role.

Carnage
26-09-2012, 21:00
A Librarian with better WS, S, T, who can take a Force Weapon that strikes at Initiative and who has the ability to take Vortex of Doom by asking nicely rather than chancing a roll on the disciplines table. Plus, Librarians can be customised for any support role you want. Where do you put Coteaz? Leave him with a shooting unit for I've Been Expecting You? Good luck ever shooting anything. An assault unit for Hammerhand? A regular Inquisitor with Terminator Armour and Hammerhand is cheaper and just as effective. He isn't terrible, he just doesn't have a role.

First off, the Librarian is challenge bait with his crumby initiative and lack of invul save. Giving him termie armor and a SS increases his cost by 40%, and limits his deployment options to walking, LR and deep striking. Librarians are used because they are cheap, don't need any upgrades and because they still contribute with 1 psychic power a turn. Also, vortex isn't used by anyone, since the misfire on it combined with the fact you need terminator armor to get any use out of it means it's limited. If you are taking a librarian for vortex you are better off paying less for the significantly better Vindicator, which is tougher, has twice the range and a much bigger blast.

Cotaez is a budget HQ, is level 2 so gets multiple rolls on the tables, and still has a slew of other good army wide abilities for his cost. Re-roll on seize is invaluable, the shooting at DS'ing units isn't bad, and the troop henchmen is a huge boon in his favor. I believe the standard way to run him these days is to switch his powers for divination and throw up prescience and whatever else you roll every turn. That's a huge amount of buffs for a 100 point model and in my opinion he should be priced closer to 150.

I think most people will trade a point of WS, S and T for a psychic level, 2 solid army wide abilities and a force organization chart shift.

MagicHat
26-09-2012, 21:05
A Librarian with better WS, S, T, who can take a Force Weapon that strikes at Initiative and who has the ability to take Vortex of Doom by asking nicely rather than chancing a roll on the disciplines table.

Well. You are the first player I have ever heard that advocated Vortex of Doom.
He have 1 more wound, which means you are not terrified every time you roll after your first miscast.
The vast majority of the time, the AA will be better then 1 less T/the opponent will squash Coteaz as easily as a Librarian.
The demon hammer is better then having a force axe. AA, means that striking at I is less important.
He is ML 2.
He have access to divination.


Plus, Librarians can be customised for any support role you want. Where do you put Coteaz? Leave him with a shooting unit for I've Been Expecting You? Good luck ever shooting anything. An assault unit for Hammerhand? A regular Inquisitor with Terminator Armour and Hammerhand is cheaper and just as effective. He isn't terrible, he just doesn't have a role.

He is a ML2 buffer. How is that not a role?

I think most people would say that GK is primarily a shooty force, with assault capability.
So why this talk about hammerhand, when prescience is a power you are guaranted to get and aids both shooting and assault?
You could put him with a 10 man strikesquad for example, with psybolts and 2 psycannons, in the middle of your deployment.
They, or any squad within 12", can have rerolls to hit.
You can't rely on getting a secondary useful power, but the 4++ power (3++ with swords!), ignore cover and reroll armour on one enemy unit is all great, while the counterattack, full BS on overwatch is pure evil versus assault armies.

Brother Valten
26-09-2012, 21:41
Coteaz is a steal for 100 points. I generally run him as my second HQ along with a bare bones GM. He gives me a better seize, or forces the opponent to re roll seize and his I've been expecting you is great to plug gaps in Warp Quake.

If I've got the first turn, I generally put Coteaz in a 10 man Purifer Squad (4 Psycanonns) and scout them forward (from the GM). This gives me a better chance of being in range with my Psycannons T1 - sometimes I don't even have to move. Prescience then means that pretty much whatever I point the squad at dies. Plus his D6 Eagle shots is pretty nice.

Overall I think he is well costed compared to the rest of the GK HQs. He's got no Invulnerable Save, is T3, and is stuck at I1 in combat. But his access to Divination at level 2 and the special rules he has works a treat. The only thing I would remove would be his ability to unlock henchmen - I think that would balance his points more.

Mr Zoat
26-09-2012, 21:55
All Inquisitors have access to Divination. If you are using him for that, may I suggest a 45 point Inquisitor with Psyker (ML1) instead?

I'll admit, I haven't tried him in a mixed force. I do know that he doesn't accessorize with Henchmen.

Max_Killfactor
27-09-2012, 16:27
I think internally, the balance is pretty good. I see people running paladins, terminators, henchmen, purifiers, strike squads, dreads, stormravens, dreadknights, and interceptors all frequently. That's a decent amount of the available options. I see most of the non SC characters used to various degrees of usefulness also.

Externally... I think the balance is not great to poor. It is a very powerful book. I feel like other armies would kill to have some of the above options which don't even make the cut in some GK lists.

GK aren't unbeatable or even as game breaking as Daemons were in fantasy last edition, but they are definitely a step better than most of the other armies.

AlphariusOmegon20
27-09-2012, 16:35
I think internally, the balance is pretty good. I see people running paladins, terminators, henchmen, purifiers, strike squads, dreads, stormravens, dreadknights, and interceptors all frequently. That's a decent amount of the available options. I see most of the non SC characters used to various degrees of usefulness also.

Externally... I think the balance is not great to poor. It is a very powerful book. I feel like other armies would kill to have some of the above options which don't even make the cut in some GK lists.



This, just a thousand times this. Ward really jumped the shark with this book...